As in just the ceremony? I know it costs about £400 in real life, but there's no easy way to convert Pathfinder money to real money. But for peasants, isn't that a bit steep? I don't have much experience with this so I'm not really sure of general prices for things.
Thanks very much!
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I doubt most peasants would bother with much of a ceremony. They'd just sign the appropriate documents and get on with it. Nobles, however, would probably go whole-hog on it.
Basically, a wedding would cost however much you're willing to spend on it. Could be nothing, could be a king's ransom.
I have nothing to add...
That said, you bring up a great thought. If I had a conversion formula for us dollars, into PP or GP, that would make hand waving costs for creative things the players come up with a lot easier. Yes there are tables for some things, but how much do you charge when the player wants to "get their horse dyed pink" as my daughter did :)
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Page 159 of the CRB has hireling costs. 30 gp is very steep. That's 100 days work by a TRAINED laborer. UNTRAINED, that's nearly an entire year! That's 1000 miles in a hired coach! I'd say more like 1-5 gp...if that church's clergy even charges.
Not the sort of thing that's covered in the rules, but I'd go with the cost of a 1st level spell plus a bit (not a lot). Consider that to be the priest casting Bless and charging a tiny bit extra for his time. The good bit about that pricing structure is that the lowly village priest might only charge 11gp, but a bishop would charge more.
As in just the ceremony? I know it costs about £400 in real life, but there's no easy way to convert Pathfinder money to real money. But for peasants, isn't that a bit steep? I don't have much experience with this so I'm not really sure of general prices for things.
I doubt there's a standard price for a wedding in Pathfinder any more than there's a standard price for it in real life. (Every clergyman sets his own fee, and many of them simply shove the collection box in your face.) Most of the cost of the wedding, of course, is the reception -- the listed cost of a banquet meal is 10gp, so multiply that by the number of guests. But if you're dealing with a group of peasants,... well, heck, I've been myself to a pot-luck wedding where the guests each bring something and the bride's sister and her iPod are the dance band.
An average person spends about 10gp per month on "cost of living" (as per SRD:"this is the lifestyle of most trained or skilled experts or warriors."). From that you can compute how much 1gp is worth in terms of general buying power, depending upon what you consider an average cost of living is in your currency. My general feeling is that an "average" middle class household in the US spends about $40,000 per year, about $10,000 per person, or $1000 per month, which makes 1gp worth about $100 US.
Peasants have a cost of living of 3gp per month, which would be considerably less, but they also of course have lower expenses as they grow much of their food.
As for the price of the priest at the wedding... 400 quid would be about 5gp, but I think that's really steep for the price of a priest's time in a farming community. You might be able to get away with that in a large (and wealthy) city, especially if it's a high-prestige church (the equivalent of getting married in St. Paul's Cathedral or Westminster Abbey). I suspect the rector of St. Loony-up-the-Cream-Bun-and-Jam would say the magic words for a single gold piece or less.
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A mug of ale is 4 cp. Convert to your local currency to give you prices based on the ale standard.
I like to use the "Beer Standard" to convert between different economies. Calculate the equivalent price of a beer in both times/places.
The Pathfinder books lists an Ale as costing 2 cp in a tavern. Down at my local bar here in town it'll cost me around $2.50. That gives me a ratio of $ to cp that I can calculate from.
It doesn't work for everything. Prices vary based on availability among other things but the cost of a wedding should equate fairly well I would think.
That works out well with my calculations above. 1gp = 100 cp = $100. So a cp is a dollar, and an ale at the local bar costs on the order of $4. (I drink in cheap bars, yes. But, having said this, that's part of local variation that the rules don't cover and that falls under the GM fiat heading.)
Depends on what your paying for.
I'd imagine that most priests (of a marriage inclined faith) are likely to be quite inclined to just tack on a simple taking of vows to the normal 'Sunday service' without any charge. If it's something they are attempting to encourage or a tennant of faith, then they are likely to at least offer an option like that where the only cost is that it's polite to invite the priest around to the reception afterwards. After all, peasants don't have a lot of spare cash to throw around, and if it is an article of faith, you probably want to have that option open so people who don't have the money can still afford to get married. From memory, the average 'peasant wedding' in the dark ages was akin to this. Just a taking of vows after the traditional Sunday service. I can quite easily see a priest of Erastil having this as their favoured ceremony method actually.
OTOH, if you want to do it so it's YOUR wedding at a given night, and bedeck the halls in glowing balls of light, a pair of succubi as the bridesmaids, a contract devil manage the paperwork (there's a piece of paper you really want to make sure you read closely), a pair of pit fiends as security, and a trio of Erinyes to carry word of the wedding to the corners of the land.... well.... That might cost you a bit more. You might also be in the wrong church, but we says evil can't fall in love as well?
So in short, it's probably just like the real world really. You can do a simple registry office for very little expense, OR you drop a billion dollars in the poor box, and have the pope marry you in the Sistine chapel.
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Well, a pound of gold is worth 50gp, meaning 30gp adds up to .6 pounds. That's 9.6 ounces, and an ounce of gold is worth about 1300$ today, so 30gp adds up to 12,480$. That seems excessive. Also consider that an unskilled worker can expect to make 1sp per day, so 30gp is almost a years salary. I'd drop the price down significantly.
Whatever the cost of the ceremony, the perfect wedding rings cost 5gp.
Clearly you didn't recently get married if 12,480$ seems excessive.
He was talking about the cost of the ceremony, not the cost of the reception.
Agreed with Ecaterina that for people that can't afford much, some sort of cleric/adept/government official is likely to officiate for little or no cost. If you're having a big costly party, it is only legit to pay the equivalent of a low level spellcasting at the least... Although there is no real reason to need 'actual' spellcasting per se. So the costs of the ceremony may well be zero, just inviting the officiator and musicians to partake of the feast.
Like David Bross says, the majority of the costs will be throwing a big party, basically. On the open market (all items purchased), 25gp sounds like around the "floor" for a moderate sized, humble wedding party with nothing much fancy. Even very humble families will almost certainly throw some sort of party though, although they probably could manage to get alot food of drink thru friends and family (either thru their own production or taking advantage of their work places to get wholesale, etc). But in most cases, these costs would be borne by the larger families or communities at large, and even the most humble communities could probably rally their resources for something more than 30gp worth.
In addition, basic signet rings are 5gp each, where that custom applies. The couple might also be expecting gifts which would help cover any costs of their own (when that applies), and dowry culture itself adds a whole other layer of expectations. Some cultures might have group weddings, some might involve one partner moving to a new tribe, etc. From the rather individualized modern culture to medieval European peasantry already includes a large span of assumptions and practices, and that only covers a subset of human cultures.
I like to use the "Beer Standard" to convert between different economies. Calculate the equivalent price of a beer in both times/places.
The Pathfinder books lists an Ale as costing 2 cp in a tavern. Down at my local bar here in town it'll cost me around $2.50. That gives me a ratio of $ to cp that I can calculate from.
It doesn't work for everything. Prices vary based on availability among other things but the cost of a wedding should equate fairly well I would think.
That seems like a fairly decent method since the price fluctuation due to changing methods should keep the price about stable (one distiller family making all the booze vs. cheaper mass production, but with much larger shipping, advertising, and mark up).
Other methods of conversion fail to take out factors such as minimum wage, changing standards for the value of precious metals, higher production standards, mass production, larger selection of competing goods (apples vs. bananas for example), and larger number of quote unquote necessities such as air conditioning, refrigeration, etc. But cheap booze is cheap booze just about anywhere you go.
I suppose you could pay extra for the ceremony spell.
That said, the cost would be variable, like everyone else said already!
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In real life, it was fairly common in recent American history in cash-poor, working class or rural communities for the minister to just charge you coming over to your house for chicken on Sunday whenever he felt like it, for the rest of our lives.
I think the real question is, do you want personally engraved invitations? What about luminarios? Carriage ride?
Depends on what your paying for.
I'd imagine that most priests (of a marriage inclined faith) are likely to be quite inclined to just tack on a simple taking of vows to the normal 'Sunday service' without any charge. If it's something they are attempting to encourage or a tennant of faith, then they are likely to at least offer an option like that where the only cost is that it's polite to invite the priest around to the reception afterwards. After all, peasants don't have a lot of spare cash to throw around, and if it is an article of faith, you probably want to have that option open so people who don't have the money can still afford to get married. From memory, the average 'peasant wedding' in the dark ages was akin to this. Just a taking of vows after the traditional Sunday service. I can quite easily see a priest of Erastil having this as their favoured ceremony method actually.
OTOH, if you want to do it so it's YOUR wedding at a given night, and bedeck the halls in glowing balls of light, a pair of succubi as the bridesmaids, a contract devil manage the paperwork (there's a piece of paper you really want to make sure you read closely), a pair of pit fiends as security, and a trio of Erinyes to carry word of the wedding to the corners of the land.... well.... That might cost you a bit more. You might also be in the wrong church, but we says evil can't fall in love as well?
So in short, it's probably just like the real world really. You can do a simple registry office for very little expense, OR you drop a billion dollars in the poor box, and have the pope marry you in the Sistine chapel.
going to agree here. A peasant in good standing with his Religion should be able to get a wedding for free as if he paying a tithe of his crop to the Temple, well the temple is going to benefit in the long run for its free wedding. And the priest may even let the temple hall be used for the wedding feast as long as they clean up and the priest is invited as most good Religion consider wedding both a Holy and Joyous event. .
Assuming you're even messing around with clergy. Could be a secular ceremony.
Might mention in the Church I attend , the Minister does not charge for weddings and Funerals for members as he considered it part of the Job he gets a salary for.
Page 159 of the CRB has hireling costs. 30 gp is very steep. That's 100 days work by a TRAINED laborer. UNTRAINED, that's nearly an entire year! That's 1000 miles in a hired coach! I'd say more like 1-5 gp...if that church's clergy even charges.
Agreed.
As in just the ceremony? I know it costs about £400 in real life, but there's no easy way to convert Pathfinder money to real money. But for peasants, isn't that a bit steep? I don't have much experience with this so I'm not really sure of general prices for things.
Thanks very much!
Lol, why did you take up adventuring?
So I could afford to get married.
It sounds kind of funny actually.
Assuming you're even messing around with clergy. Could be a secular ceremony.
That's a good point. Prior to the middle ages, secular marriages were probably as common as religious one, if not more so, worldwide.
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As in just the ceremony? I know it costs about £400 in real life, but there's no easy way to convert Pathfinder money to real money. But for peasants, isn't that a bit steep? I don't have much experience with this so I'm not really sure of general prices for things.
Thanks very much!Lol, why did you take up adventuring?
So I could afford to get married.
It sounds kind of funny actually.
Kinda appropriate, actually, in a folktales and sagas kind of way. A lot of RW vikings went looking for loot to afford a family farm and have kids. Similarly, there was the problem of younger sons even among the Frankish elite in the early middle ages - i.e., this is an excellent reason to get married. In folktales, the peasant youth goes adventuring so he can marry the princess.
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As in just the ceremony? I know it costs about £400 in real life, but there's no easy way to convert Pathfinder money to real money. But for peasants, isn't that a bit steep? I don't have much experience with this so I'm not really sure of general prices for things.
Thanks very much!Lol, why did you take up adventuring?
So I could afford to get married.
It sounds kind of funny actually.
Trivia:
The phrase 'taking an arrow to the knee' (popularized by Skyrim memes) is an old expression meaning 'to get married'. :)
Kinda appropriate, actually, in a folktales and sagas kind of way. A lot of RW vikings went looking for loot to afford a family farm and have kids. Similarly, there was the problem of younger sons even among the Frankish elite in the early middle ages - i.e., this is an excellent reason to get married. In folktales, the peasant youth goes adventuring so he can marry the princess.
This is primarily tied to the dowry, not paying for officiation services though, right?
Or even without an official dowry, the ability to have a settled life and support children, etc.
Kinda appropriate, actually, in a folktales and sagas kind of way. A lot of RW vikings went looking for loot to afford a family farm and have kids. Similarly, there was the problem of younger sons even among the Frankish elite in the early middle ages - i.e., this is an excellent reason to get married. In folktales, the peasant youth goes adventuring so he can marry the princess.As in just the ceremony? I know it costs about £400 in real life, but there's no easy way to convert Pathfinder money to real money. But for peasants, isn't that a bit steep? I don't have much experience with this so I'm not really sure of general prices for things.
Thanks very much!Lol, why did you take up adventuring?
So I could afford to get married.
It sounds kind of funny actually.
A failed marriage can also be a great reason to start adventuring, and lead to funny rp of the grizzled fighter saying "this dungeon is nothing compared to my marriage!"
Kinda appropriate, actually, in a folktales and sagas kind of way. A lot of RW vikings went looking for loot to afford a family farm and have kids. Similarly, there was the problem of younger sons even among the Frankish elite in the early middle ages - i.e., this is an excellent reason to get married. In folktales, the peasant youth goes adventuring so he can marry the princess.This is primarily tied to the dowry, not paying for officiation services though, right?
Or even without an official dowry, the ability to have a settled life and support children, etc.
Traditionally, European dowries were paid by the bride's family to the groom's, not the other way. So the peasant youth doesn't need a dowry to marry the princess, but he does need enough money to support her once they're married.
But, yes. Officiation services have never been a substantial expense. Even if you're into conspicuous consumption, you do that with the venue, the reception, gifts for the wedding guests, what have you.
I'm not familiar with that as far as pre-Christian Europe goes...
But in general no family is going to pay a dowry and bless a marriage to some indigent peasant, because they need to be 'worth' the dowry.
If an eligible male is down-on-luck nobility, that's worth something of a dowry, esp. for rich burghers without noble title.
But if you didn't have any noble title, having worldly success was the best way to get a desirable bride.
And if you do have noble title but no money, few other noble families would be inclined to enter into marriage.
For common people with few pretentions, I'd guess the matter of providing a good family life was more of a concern than dowry per se.
I guess D&D is hardly as historically accurate as all this, and people are likely to inject their own modern anachronisms.
If a church charged 30gp for marriage, and the peasants couldn't pay, or didn't want to (due to taxation already, dire conditions), would the church collapse as the peasants left the church (and possibly faith) in disgust.
The fee of any service must be within the means of the consumer to pay, or there will be no deal.