
w01fe01 |
You know whats awesome about master of many styles? EVERYTHING...except its a monk. and loses flurry >.>
so gestalt it with Brawler. heres what i got so far with feat selection, but i encourage anyones opinions/suggestions.
Dwarf (cuz i love dwarves sorry...biased)
1-Dragon Style/Power attack/combat reflexes
2-Dragon Ferocity/Weapon Focus (unarmed)
3-Tiger Style
4-Weapon Specialization
5-Dodge
6-Tiger Pounce/Mobility
7-Snake Style
8-Snake Sidewind
9-Greater Weapon Focus
10-Snake Fang/Spring Attack
11-Boar Style
12-Stand Still
13-Combat Patrol/?
14-Boar Shred
15-Strike Back
16-Disruptive
17-spell breaker
18-Janni Style
19-Shatterspell
20-Janni Rush
This is the general idea i have so far. first direction is damage, dragon increases STR bonus damage, tiger lets me avoid -hit on power attack, snake style promotes action economy allowing me to attack when its not my turn. boar allows more damage through bleeds, and janni allows a vital strike-ish charge.
Then you take weapon focus/specializations for more hit/damage.
then i added in some mobility, along with a way to prevent enemies mobility. then i added some more spell disruption.

w01fe01 |
if i had an 18 STR with decent gear, lets say +6 STR, add 4 STR from attribute levels, and 4 more from a bull strength wand. at level 20
3d8 unarmed
+22 STR (16 after first hit)
+7 Close Combatant (brawler)
+12 Power attack (or is this +10, the way im reading it its +12 at level 20)
+4 weapon/greater weapon speccialization
so thats 3d8+45 (39 other attacks)
and i still get 2d6 and 1d6 bleed attacks.
on a charge ill be doing 6d8

lemeres |

Why would his AC be a problem? You see, since he lost flurry, the only incentives to NOT use armor is a speed bonus and a boost to AC (which is not really worth it, but nice to have when you are caught with your pants down). The fact that he is playing a dwarf actually means that his monk could wear full plate for all the game cares, since it wouldn't reduce his base speed. Heck, add a couple of shields for more AC and let him kick all of his enemies.
I tend to want to go with a TWF fighter when ever I make a brawler, but meh. It requires some investments that might not pay off. I will say that you can pretty much stop an enemy from escaping from your full attacks when you combined the standstill feat (which uses a check to stop an opponent from moving when you hit him with an AoO for some type of movement) and the brawler's No escape ability (which pretty much gives you an AoO whenever someone tries to move away from next to you)
But this does have interesting ways to take full advantage of style feats. You have a clear plan for your desired effects with each feat, and it seems to come out with some effective strategies built in. I might have looked into snake fang though, since I have noted that there is nothing preventing you from getting a ton of AC to take advantage of it. But Snake style alone does boost your effective touch AC though.

Will Pratt |

if i had an 18 STR with decent gear, lets say +6 STR, add 4 STR from attribute levels, and 4 more from a bull strength wand. at level 20
3d8 unarmed
+22 STR (16 after first hit)
+7 Close Combatant (brawler)
+12 Power attack (or is this +10, the way im reading it its +12 at level 20)
+4 weapon/greater weapon speccializationso thats 3d8+45 (39 other attacks)
and i still get 2d6 and 1d6 bleed attacks.
on a charge ill be doing 6d8
Hey just wanted to chime in that you can't stack a belt of Giant's Str (I'm assuming that's where you got the +6) and Bull's Str since they are both enhancement bonuses. Just thought that was worth mentioning.

w01fe01 |
"looks at my post, noticed i didnt include snake fang"
/smacks own face
was supposed to include it >.<
ill have to go over it and decide what i want to move around/replace for it.
i was suppose to pick up snake style to improve action economy getting even more attacks then i normally would.
and i apologize, apparently thru edits i accidently deleted the part where i was asking for any suggestions/critisiscm other then "monks suck" or "fighters suck"

w01fe01 |
w01fe01 wrote:Hey just wanted to chime in that you can't stack a belt of Giant's Str (I'm assuming that's where you got the +6) and Bull's Str since they are both enhancement bonuses. Just thought that was worth mentioning.if i had an 18 STR with decent gear, lets say +6 STR, add 4 STR from attribute levels, and 4 more from a bull strength wand. at level 20
3d8 unarmed
+22 STR (16 after first hit)
+7 Close Combatant (brawler)
+12 Power attack (or is this +10, the way im reading it its +12 at level 20)
+4 weapon/greater weapon speccializationso thats 3d8+45 (39 other attacks)
and i still get 2d6 and 1d6 bleed attacks.
on a charge ill be doing 6d8
wow really? that seems weird considering it makes bulls STR useless at higher levels. ill have to check on that, not that i dont believe you.
edit: found it, good to know. ill have to keep it in mind.

Will Pratt |

Will Pratt wrote:w01fe01 wrote:Hey just wanted to chime in that you can't stack a belt of Giant's Str (I'm assuming that's where you got the +6) and Bull's Str since they are both enhancement bonuses. Just thought that was worth mentioning.if i had an 18 STR with decent gear, lets say +6 STR, add 4 STR from attribute levels, and 4 more from a bull strength wand. at level 20
3d8 unarmed
+22 STR (16 after first hit)
+7 Close Combatant (brawler)
+12 Power attack (or is this +10, the way im reading it its +12 at level 20)
+4 weapon/greater weapon speccializationso thats 3d8+45 (39 other attacks)
and i still get 2d6 and 1d6 bleed attacks.
on a charge ill be doing 6d8
wow really? that seems weird considering it makes bulls STR useless at higher levels. ill have to check on that, not that i dont believe you.
edit: found it, good to know. ill have to keep it in mind.
I realize tht it does have a mass version that's 6th level but it is a second level spell it shouldn't scale that awesomely all the way up. And the way I see it a if belt of Giant's Str is your priority than you should spend your cash on that and use bear's endurance if your main is con get the Con belt and use Bull's Str. That way you don't have to spend an obscene amount of money on a belt.

lemeres |

Ah, also, a suggestion for a magic item. Rather than using the Amulet of mighty fists, you might enjoy Bodywraps of Mighty Strikes. This is an item from ultimate equipment meant to enhance unarmed strikes and natural attacks.
The problem with it is that it only enhances them a certain number of times per round. It does it 1 time for BAB 1-5, 2 times for bab 6-10. 3 times for BAB 11-15, and 4 times for BAB 16-20. Well...normally this would be a problem, since most unarmed strike users go for flurry of blows or TWF, but you are not. Unfortunately, this would put a hamper on using AoO's. But it is still only 1.5 times as expensive as as a normal weapon comapred to the double price of an Amulet of Mighty fists. So maybe consider it for enhancements until you start really getting into AoO's (although that is kind of a major thing even before snake style for brawlers with their harry ability)
Just throwing out suggestions.

lemeres |

Why does everyone always suggest dex builds with unarmed strikes? This person wants to go strength based. Let him. He can keep his AC up with any armor he wants, since MoMS has less harsh restrictions compared to normal monks, and dwarves do not lose speed due to armor. Heck, he doesn't even need a good WIS with such a set up.

Will Pratt |

Ah, also, a suggestion for a magic item. Rather than using the Amulet of mighty fists, you might enjoy Bodywraps of Mighty Strikes. This is an item from ultimate equipment meant to enhance unarmed strikes and natural attacks.
The problem with it is that it only enhances them a certain number of times per round. It does it 1 time for BAB 1-5, 2 times for bab 6-10. 3 times for BAB 11-15, and 4 times for BAB 16-20. Well...normally this would be a problem, since most unarmed strike users go for flurry of blows or TWF, but you are not. Unfortunately, this would put a hamper on using AoO's. But it is still only 1.5 times as expensive as as a normal weapon comapred to the double price of an Amulet of Mighty fists. So maybe consider it for enhancements until you start really getting into AoO's (although that is kind of a major thing even before snake style for brawlers with their harry ability)
Just throwing out suggestions.
In an eratta from a little while ago the price of amulet of mighty fists has been changed to scale with the pricing of normal weapons though it still only goes up to (+5) link

lemeres |

Yes, the price is reduced, but it is still twice the cost per enhancement. +1 sword is 2,000 GP and +1 AoMF is 4,000 gp. By comparison, +1 Bodywraps are 3,000.
So you are still saving a few thousand at early levels if you start off with the bodywraps. I would say that the Amulet is better overall, since it constantly enchants everything, but it is still costly. Save it until you feel you need the extra uses of enchantment.

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The funny thing is this build is not exceptional for a level 20 gestalt. You want to see some serious output between a monk/fighter gestalt at level 20? Take mobile fighter and Monk of the Four Winds. Spend 6 ki (which you'll have a lot of, more if you take a race that boosts it) to get 3 full attacks, presumably flurries. With fighter weapon specialization, weapon training, etc his numbers will be good anyways.

Lemmy |

Why does everyone always suggest dex builds with unarmed strikes? This person wants to go strength based. Let him. He can keep his AC up with any armor he wants, since MoMS has less harsh restrictions compared to normal monks, and dwarves do not lose speed due to armor. Heck, he doesn't even need a good WIS with such a set up.
Dex build? What kind of sissy brawler uses Dex???
(Just because I really like this build... Heh)

w01fe01 |
i didnt think any MoMS build would be super exceptional, but i love style feats a lot, so i wanted to do something with MoMS.
ive considered going vital strike route on my ape shaman/moms character that multiclassed out of druid to brawler.
15d8 vital strikes >.<
if i went without moms and did the four winds archetype, thats 15d8x3 in one round if i spend 6 ki.

Lemmy |

i didnt think any MoMS build would be super exceptional, but i love style feats a lot, so i wanted to do something with MoMS.
Snake and Dragon are both pretty good. (Especially since you can skip the middle feat for Snake Style), Crane and Panther are also rather useful, although I don't like them as much. The other styles... Meh...