| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Infernal healing says it has a material component of one "dose" of unholy water or one drop devil's blood.
Is a "dose" of unholy water the same as a vial? In which case this material component costs 25gp.
If so, would a drop of devil's blood have the same cost? It seems that whether it's one or the other they probably should have the same gp cost, though I'm not sure.
However, if that's the case, a scroll of CLW would cost the same as the components of this spell, which makes its value seem dubious, though it does heal more damage in the long run.
Alternately, can you summon a minor devil and then harvest blood from it?
Peet
I think a dose of unholy water would refer to buying a flash of unholy water, which costs 25 gp (since unholy water and holy water are simply the same spell on the opposite spectrum from each other). I dunno the cost of buying a drop of devil's blood though, couldn't find it under the equipment section.
I'm not sure if the minor devil would let you willingly take some of it's blood, but otherwise that might work.
No matter how exotic, if the cost of the material component isn't stated, it is assumed to be negligible.
^^ This.
I drank Unholy Water once and it was pretty cheap, came in a can with 'Bud Light' written on the side.
This acually has me confused a little becouse every other spell I have seen that has a expensive material component (1gm or more) has the price listed next to the component, This one does not. So I would have to expect its price to be negligable.
Yeah, that's basically why I brought this up. It has the format of spells that don't have costly components, but it lists a component that has an official listed price.
Maybe 1 "dose" of unholy water is 1/25th of a vial? In which case it would be 1gp total price, which would be reasonable since it falls under the limit for the Eschew Materials feat.
Peet
yep. It's generally assumed that if a price isn't listed, it's negligible. Still, if I were your GM, I'd be tempted to use it as a hook;
"Your character is using unholy water and devil's blood? Where are you getting THAT?! Oh really? There are some paladins in town who would like to have a word with you..."
you don't need either one if you have eschew materials.
I think a "dose" in this case doesn't mean an entire flask.
A flask is about half a liter, and is meant to be thrown as a Splash weapon to deal damage and so, same for the flask of Holy Water.
In this spell you only likely need just a bit to anoint the forehead of the target or something. An actual flask could potentially last you for years for that, and in that case it's just assumed you got a small vial of Unholy Water in your spell component pouch which is enough.
I know it doesn't say that, but it's the one thing that makes sense, otherwise the cost would have been given for the spell.
Also it would be weird to have an either or option with one being trivial (devil's blood) and one being costly
No matter how exotic, if the cost of the material component isn't stated, it is assumed to be negligible.
What about the transformation spell? Surely purchasing a 2gp component pouch doesn't net me an effectively infinite amount of free bull's strength potions.
No matter how exotic, if the cost of the material component isn't stated, it is assumed to be negligible.What about the transformation spell? Surely purchasing a 2gp component pouch doesn't net me an effectively infinite amount of free bull's strength potions.
I think since it is calling out a specific item we can deduce that the 'specific trumps general' is in play for that spell. In regards to infernal healing devil's blood is not an item with a listed cost therefore a spell component pouch would suffice. Let's just ignore the part about unholy water.
I think since it is calling out a specific item we can deduce that the 'specific trumps general' is in play for that spell. In regards to infernal healing devil's blood is not an item with a listed cost therefore a spell component pouch would suffice. Let's just ignore the part about unholy water.No matter how exotic, if the cost of the material component isn't stated, it is assumed to be negligible.What about the transformation spell? Surely purchasing a 2gp component pouch doesn't net me an effectively infinite amount of free bull's strength potions.
How is that not a double standard? You either pay the price for the unholy water AND the potion of bull's strength, or you don't. You're either following the rules, or you're not.
|
Sorry for the thread necro, but was this question ever answered anywhere?
Personally I assumed that the component was a flask of unholy water (so 25gp cost) unless you happened to have a handy supply of devil's blood (such as if you had an imp familiar or something)... or were using the False Focus Feat or whatever for a cost-bypass. That seemed to make sense to me as the spell breaks one of the 'cardinal unwritten rules' and grants low-level healing to the Magus, Sorcerer, Summoner, and Wizard.
Blwargh, foul necromancer!
Devils blood is in your spell component pouch, unless your DM tells you otherwise. Unholy water serves as a potential alternative if for some reason you can't bring your pouch... A flask or skin of water may be easier to bring with you somewhere, for example.
A lot of people take components for granted, but they do matter a little, especially at low levels. My most recent character I had to spend a few minutes with going over her spell list to make sure I didn't need a component pouch, for fluff reasons.
Giving more classes access to HP restoration isn't a bug, it's a feature. It makes the game more fun and doesn't effect combat in this case, while reducing downtime and record keeping. It doesn't need a price tag.
Thanks, KrispyXIV, but I'm aware of the two basic opinions here (it's not a costly component / it is a costly component). What I'm asking is if anyone knows if this has been officially answered anywhere?
Eh, I'm in disagreement it needs to be. Find me anything to contradict my 'opinion' and I'll be impressed.
The spell lists two components on an either/or basis. One has a cost, the other does not.
Apply all rules as normal as nothing has told you otherwise; if you use Devil Blood, there is no associated cost. If you use Unholy Water, you must pay for it as its an expensive material component whose cost is not reprinted in the spell description (see Transformation example).
Here's a goalpost to set in stone for this; find me a spell in a Core Book that lists an expensive component which is also listed with a cost elsewhere (like unholy water or a potion) and duplicates a gold cost in the spell description. If you can do that, I'll agree it's unclear.
Otherwise it's my opinion this issue is clear as day. Apply rules as normal.
|
|
Again: I understand the opinions...
a) Because two options for components are listed, one which hasn't had a cost listed in Paizo books, it defaults to 'everything is in the pouch'.
b) Because two options for components are listed, one which has had a cost listed in Paizo books, it defaults to that cost.
... just claiming that any opinion not your own isn't valid doesn't help a great deal, to be honest. I'm not saying that either a) or b) is correct... just that it'd be nice to have more input on this one. Does anyone know how PFS rules it, for example? I know PFS is it's own set of 'house rules' but it'd at least shed some light on how some of the Paizo chaps see this as working. We don't get FAQs on non-core books, so I can't imagine it'd ever make it to an official FAQ, but just an indication of the designer's intent would be nice.
Again: I understand the opinions...
a) Because two options for components are listed, one which hasn't had a cost listed in Paizo books, it defaults to 'everything is in the pouch'.
b) Because two options for components are listed, one which has had a cost listed in Paizo books, it defaults to that cost.
... just claiming that any opinion not your own isn't valid doesn't help a great deal, to be honest
Try c) It doesn't default to either component, they are both equally valid, apply rules normally based on which is being used as determined by the character and situation.
I'm not saying opinions other than mine are wrong, I'm saying my interpretation is supported by the rules and I'd like to see rules support from the opposing viewpoint before I admit there may be something to their argument.
There is kindof a bizarre argument that if the cost isn't listed in the spell description it's free even if it has a cost elsewhere (see Transformation), but I think that definitely falls under not duplicating information.
It's also not relevant for Infernal Healing. No cost is listed anywhere for Devil Blood, therefore it's in your pouch. No ambiguity at all.
This said, a DM could rule that you need to at least posit a source for this devil's blood. It sounds far less routine than most other spell components.
I agree that keeping track of material components is annoying and fastidious, almost as much as keeping track of the weight of all your gear. But requiring devil's blood is too sweet a plot hook for this DM to pass up. <g>
This said, a DM could rule that you need to at least posit a source for this devil's blood. It sounds far less routine than most other spell components.
I agree that keeping track of material components is annoying and fastidious, almost as much as keeping track of the weight of all your gear. But requiring devil's blood is too sweet a plot hook for this DM to pass up. <g>
Ugh, definitely disagree here. To me, it's no more reasonable than requiring the player to posit the source of all that bat guano.
At least someone can bargain with an imp for some blood... Or a less scrupulous wizard could use Planar Binding to Call one, knock it out, and drain it for the duration of the spell.
The key is, someone is out there mucking up bat-crap, and someone is out there bottling devil blood. Both seem equally out of the adventuring spectrum to me.
/opinion
Of course, you're right, RAW-wise.
This said, bat guano ought to be available in any dungeon or cave. Could get it by trading moldy cheese to goblins. I suppose since any wizard or sorceror with an imp familiar could mine devil's blood, on a semi-infinite basis, and sell it for 1 GP or summat. Isn't that an improved familiar though? Would blood from a diabolical summoned creature count, or would its blood disappear as the spell expires? Planar binding perhaps? But what would you have to trade for a few vials?
Come now, inquiring minds want to know.
IMHO not having a cost assigned to devil's blood is an oversight. <g>
Seems simple. Both 'dose' of unholy water and devil blood don't have a listed price and as such cost nothing. If there was a cost, both RAW and RAI would require a listed cost or requiring something that does.
