If someone asks to play a talking donkey in my game they might get an ear punch... lol
Am I the only one who heard this thread title in Jerry Seinfeld's voice? :D
I guess that makes them the "masters of their domain". Not that there is anything wrong with that.
I just say no to anthropomorphic animals.
1 out of every 100 animals in my campaign are born with speech as if an Awakened spell were cast on them.
Catfolk, Lizardfolk, Gnolls, and Ratfolk are common.
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I just say no to anthropomorphic animals.
Isn't there a Gnoll in your avatar?
It was kobolds and harpies for me. For some reason I've always wanted to play a Harpy Bard. Pretty stereotypical class choice, admittedly. But it's been on my to-do list for a while, and never really gotten around to it. Mostly since I don't get to be playerside too often.
Kobolds I solved by just making them a standard available race in my games, and upping their stats a little to be on par with the core races, but they were technically playable from the beginning, just a lousy choice mechanically =)
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I didn't even like kobolds until it kept getting beaten over my head that they weren't meant to be playable, which just got my contrary blood flowing.
Probably the same reason I like gnolls best of all 'anthros,' because I am told that I'm not supposed to like them. Smelly, dirty, lazy, blah, blah. Plus, hyenas. Anyone can like wolves or eagles or dolphins or horses. It's always been trendy to like the cute or 'noble' animals. Hyenas are totally the underdog.
I didn't even like kobolds until it kept getting beaten over my head that they weren't meant to be playable, which just got my contrary blood flowing.
Probably the same reason I like gnolls best of all 'anthros,' because I am told that I'm not supposed to like them. Smelly, dirty, lazy, blah, blah. Plus, hyenas. Anyone can like wolves or eagles or dolphins or horses. It's always been trendy to like the cute or 'noble' animals. Hyenas are totally the underdog.
But are more closely related to cats!
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It was kobolds and harpies for me. For some reason I've always wanted to play a Harpy Bard. Pretty stereotypical class choice, admittedly. But it's been on my to-do list for a while, and never really gotten around to it. Mostly since I don't get to be playerside too often.
Kobolds I solved by just making them a standard available race in my games, and upping their stats a little to be on par with the core races, but they were technically playable from the beginning, just a lousy choice mechanically =)
I always liked kobolds myself, and one player-driven event in a game I ran gave me the perfect excuse to create a subrace of kobolds that, while still sensitive to light, learned to face their fears and actually become strong.
As the alchemist pursued the kobolds, casually dodging their traps as he went, the disheartened oracle decided to crawl through one of their nearby tunnels, and ended up inside the village while the alchemist was attacking their gate alone. She rolled a 20 (total was around 30) on her Diplomacy check and not only calmed the kobolds down, but enlisted their help in gathering stones in return for slaying some oozes that kept the kobolds from going in too deep.
Emboldened, and convinced they should try trusting "hoomies", the kobolds began to venture out of the mines and began to trade with the nearby village. Eventually, they developed special goggles that negated to protect their eyes during the day. Over time, the kobolds grew prosperous, brave, and strong.
And the area has been known as Kobold Canyon ever since.
I suppose most players have some race for which they say, "I wish these were playable" (or, during the regular times when playing-as-monsters books have come out, "I can't wait to play one.") For me, it's lizardfolk; but I've met centaur fans, kobold fans, pixie fans, undead fans, drow fans - soooooooo many drow fans... where was I?
When I read this, I was like, "Oh, no...Not me!"
Then I started to think, I really do like warforged. And that's definitely an alternate race. And half of the group I currently DM for is convinced that the race is a lame excuse to play a golem. So, right there at my table is a sterling example.
I just keep thinking, "But I let THEM play all their strange races, why are they so resistant to letting me play my warforged?" And then I remember that it's not just the warforged. It's also the gunslinger part of the equation... ;)
And there comes along my next human evoker, or human rogue number 232. They make less waves, cause less eyes to roll, and I still haven't gotten tired of playing them after all these years!
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A Warforged Gunslinger? Wouldn't that be a Terminator? Awesome.
LOL!
That's MY thinking! :)
I'm seeing on another thread about a new AP coming next year that looks like it might be verrry appealing to me...and like a nightmare to most of the rest of my gaming group.
But, yeah, I think this is a definite situation where some people's interests (minotaur, warforged, Hello Kitty ninja, what have you) are just not going to appeal to everyone. I think the three Fourth Edition Player's Handbooks are loaded with examples of "niche" player races like these...
Minotaurs are pretty random -- big angry clearly unnatural dudes who're maze savants because...they have the pea-brains of a bull? Really?
But whatever, neither mythology nor D&D ever made much sense.
1. Take animal
2. Take human
3. ???
4. Race.
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The only thing that gets to me with races is where there are too many in one space. A minotaur race could be really cool, but when there's already a half dozen "beefy" races in the setting it's a bit much for me.
My personal preference is to have 4 "core races (the pragmatic, the beefy, the nature lover, and human) and then a small selection of exotic races.
I get around this general rule for my tabletop by having several different continents with their own core races, so players wanting to play something really out there like a Kitsune don't start out with the same common language as the other and have to spend a bonus language/linguistics point on it. That and being constantly viewed as an exotic outsider and possibly having to hide your identity are my compromise.
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Minotaurs are pretty random -- big angry clearly unnatural dudes who're maze savants because...they have the pea-brains of a bull? Really?
But whatever, neither mythology nor D&D ever made much sense.
The maze thing comes from the original myth. The original labyrinth was the one built by Daedalus and Icarus to house the minotaur.
The myth seems to have developed from prehistoric Cretan ceremonies involving bull-leaping and other ritual stuff that was recorded and partially remembered by later Cretan peoples and their neighbours.
1. Take animal
2. Take human
3. ???
4. Race.
Umm... these are a species from mythology. So not designers mashing species together. Mythology did this occasionally, usually with species seen as having special significance (horses, bulls, snakes). You don't see any man/pigs, man-cows, man/dogs or man/sheep beyond the odd artist's joke.
And there is no confusion over step 3. It is a god forcing magical, bestial rape on a woman for the sins of her husband. Yeah, Zeus was pretty horrible.
Minotaurs are pretty random -- big angry clearly unnatural dudes who're maze savants because...they have the pea-brains of a bull? Really?
But whatever, neither mythology nor D&D ever made much sense.
The maze thing comes from the original myth. The original labyrinth was the one built by Daedalus and Icarus to house the minotaur.
The myth seems to have developed from prehistoric Cretan ceremonies involving bull-leaping and other ritual stuff that was recorded and partially remembered by later Cretan peoples and their neighbours.
Yes, I'm aware of the original minotaur myth. Doesn't make minotaurs any less nonsensical. :P
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Yes, I'm aware of the original minotaur myth. Doesn't make minotaurs any less nonsensical. :PMinotaurs are pretty random -- big angry clearly unnatural dudes who're maze savants because...they have the pea-brains of a bull? Really?
But whatever, neither mythology nor D&D ever made much sense.
The maze thing comes from the original myth. The original labyrinth was the one built by Daedalus and Icarus to house the minotaur.
The myth seems to have developed from prehistoric Cretan ceremonies involving bull-leaping and other ritual stuff that was recorded and partially remembered by later Cretan peoples and their neighbours.
Well, obviously YMMV but I think it does make sense.
Many cultures and myth cycles have prgenitor myths which explain why people are how they are.
Christians believe that man is made in god's image.
Minotaurs are all, to some degree, reflections of the minotaur.
If minotaurs were created by a god to be a certain way (feral, man-eating, maze-bound) then so be it.
Minotaurs are pretty random -- big angry clearly unnatural dudes who're maze savants because...they have the pea-brains of a bull? Really?
But whatever, neither mythology nor D&D ever made much sense.
The maze thing comes from the original myth. The original labyrinth was the one built by Daedalus and Icarus to house the minotaur.
The myth seems to have developed from prehistoric Cretan ceremonies involving bull-leaping and other ritual stuff that was recorded and partially remembered by later Cretan peoples and their neighbours.
1. Take animal
2. Take human
3. ???
4. Race.Umm... these are a species from mythology. So not designers mashing species together. Mythology did this occasionally, usually with species seen as having special significance (horses, bulls, snakes). You don't see any man/pigs, man-cows, man/dogs or man/sheep beyond the odd artist's joke.
And there is no confusion over step 3. It is a god forcing magical, bestial rape on a woman for the sins of her husband. Yeah, Zeus was pretty horrible.
It was a joke. I am fully aware of the minotaur's origins and the ideas of comparative mythology. I was referencing the old ??? -> Profit meme. Not a great attempt at humor, perhaps, but an attempt all the same.
Nonsensical may not be the best word. There is nothing about the existing of a humanoid with bull-like features that could never physically exist. It doesn't exist surely, but I find it no less physically possible than giant winged reptiles that can speak.
Oh sure, myth and D&D have no shortage of nonsensical creatures.
I just find the minotaur to be a particularly clear example; at least the traditional minotaur, with its sharp divide between the furry bull's head and the relatively hairless human body.
Minotaur are delicious.
I suppose most players have some race for which they say, "I wish these were playable" (or, during the regular times when playing-as-monsters books have come out, "I can't wait to play one.") For me, it's lizardfolk; but I've met centaur fans, kobold fans, pixie fans, undead fans, drow fans - soooooooo many drow fans... where was I?
Lizardfolk, boggards, otyughs. :D
Add them to your games as playable races today!
Disregarding minotaurs as angry man-beasts is like writing off elves as effeminate and anemic weaklings. It may be true in some cases, but it's still an ugly stereotype.
In the Dragonlance setting, Minotaurs are people, plain and simple. They're people that appreciate straight talk, honesty, and common sense. They're like the beast races in the Elder Scrolls in that they're different than most people, and will generally want to keep mostly to themselves, but they have a whole civilization and a very strong naval tradition.
Personally, I love being able to play a minotaur - partially for RP reasons, but also partially for mechanical reasons. It's a nice alternative to a half-orc or half-ogre if you want a fearsome, beefy (no pun intended) non-human warrior.
Playing a minotaur gives you an excuse to take strange feats like "Scent" that you normally have to really grasp at straws for a valid concept reason to select. You get to be the scary guy that nobody wants to meet in a dark alley. A minotaur always has a thick fur coat on him, so if your DM gives you cold weather hazards you're already ahead of the curve. Depending on your campaign, they're often portrayed as having wide angle vision - bad for archery, but GOOD for spotting somebody trying to sneak up on you (A minotaur is never considered to be flat-footed).
Also, there is a racial ability that most people overlook and I've seen some DM's actually *disallow* because they thought it was too useful:
A minotaur is *never* lost. Ever. He always knows where he is, and how to get home. If you had this ability, you might choose to build labyrinthine lairs like they do.
You intended that pun, you really did.
If someone asks to play a talking donkey in my game they might get an ear punch... lol
What about the frightening asswere?
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If someone asks to play a talking donkey in my game they might get an ear punch... lolWhat about the frightening asswere?
That's too horrible to contemplate.
That's too horrible to contemplate.If someone asks to play a talking donkey in my game they might get an ear punch... lolWhat about the frightening asswere?
It's the teeth that haunt my dreams.
I don't know why, but those teeth have stuck with me since the first time I saw that picture...
They look like the false teeth my late Aunt Gladys wore.
yeesh.
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Am I the only one who heard this thread title in Jerry Seinfeld's voice? :D
I mean they're not made of tar? Are we going to start hiring them to work at the transportation department laying tar? Excuse me Mr. Bull-Man is this going to take long? I have an appointment in the city.
/Seinfeld.
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Yes, I am putting together a new setting, and the asswere tribes control a chunk of territory. I always liked their confusion attack. Fantasy needs less orcs and more assweres, and flail snails, lol.
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Assweres need to be contrasted against other creatures, such as wereasses (humans shapechanging into asses), ass garous (humans who keep an ass skin they can use to change into ass shape), dire asses, and so on.
*Chuckling stamp of approval*
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Baby your ass looks DIRE
Sure, they've been popular since ancient times, what with people going into mazes and all and killing them. But why are they offered as player races in so many settings from Krynn to Midgard? I mean, they're just angry man-bulls. Sure, I've read the game stats, but I still don't get it. I guess it's because I'm not a fan of furry races. But still.
I would say that Krynn is the answer. I don't believe Minotaurs where considered anything other then a monster in any RPG until they received an overhaul as a nautical race of bull men in the Krynn setting.
Why minotaur was chosen I'm not sure but it is pretty clear that the setting was striving to push a few boundaries replacing hobbits with Kender and such. Furthermore IIRC the original modules really just presented them as a monster in opposition but now one that was nautical in nature and lived in organized groups. However the campaign guide even in 1E did have them and they where further fleshed out in the Taladas campaign setting (My favorite setting of all time).
Truth is I'm kind of skeptical that minotaur was exactly picked because they where bull headed people. I think they just kind of fell into that role when it became clear that the Dragon Lance Proto Adventure Path needed a race of evil water guys for story reasons and someone working on the release decided to make Minotaur fit the bill...but once that was done its pretty clear that the idea sparked the imagination of a great many gamers.
One wonders if this would have been the case if the writer who choose minotaur had instead decided to re-imagine Otyugh.
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I just figured it was a literal re-envisioning of the Viking horned helmet thing. *shrugs*
I just figured it was a literal re-envisioning of the Viking horned helmet thing. *shrugs*
That's possible. It's certainly a way that the people of the Gaelic Isles may have imagined the vikings when they heard stories of them. Ever seen the Secret of Kells?
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Contributor
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I just figured it was a literal re-envisioning of the Viking horned helmet thing. *shrugs*That's possible. It's certainly a way that the people of the Gaelic Isles may have imagined the vikings when they heard stories of them. Ever seen the Secret of Kells?
Vikings didn't have horns or wings on their helmets. The only real horned helmets I'm aware of were Celtic, Bronze-age ceremonial garb, or on medieval knights. See here..
The Vikings were mythologized in Irish and Gaelic material primarily as Fomor. Also, Minotaurs come from Greek mythology, long before the Vikings or Norse existed as a piratical culture. Bulls have a major role in Indo-European legend as a symbol of masculine fertility and violence. Many examples, however, of half-human creatures are really rooted in misogynistic folklore or as explanations for tragically deformed births (literal 'monsters'). Monster means 'a thing as a warning' (monition) and one of the Classical categories was malformation of children. Hence the Minotaur is a representation of that idea: Asterion indicates the divine anger at the Cretans. He also embodies the fear that genetically disabled individuals faced in pre-Enlightenment Europe.
Hence, a Minotaur could legitimately be used as a symbol for Otherness that any non-beautiful or mute person is faced with in our world.
I just figured it was a literal re-envisioning of the Viking horned helmet thing. *shrugs*That's possible. It's certainly a way that the people of the Gaelic Isles may have imagined the vikings when they heard stories of them. Ever seen the Secret of Kells?
I have, and love watching it. :)
I just figured it was a literal re-envisioning of the Viking horned helmet thing. *shrugs*That's possible. It's certainly a way that the people of the Gaelic Isles may have imagined the vikings when they heard stories of them. Ever seen the Secret of Kells?Vikings didn't have horns or wings on their helmets. The only real horned helmets I'm aware of were Celtic, Bronze-age ceremonial garb, or on medieval knights. See here..
The Vikings were mythologized in Irish and Gaelic material primarily as Fomor. Also, Minotaurs come from Greek mythology, long before the Vikings or Norse existed as a piratical culture. Bulls have a major role in Indo-European legend as a symbol of masculine fertility and violence. Many examples, however, of half-human creatures are really rooted in misogynistic folklore or as explanations for tragically deformed births (literal 'monsters'). Monster means 'a thing as a warning' (monition) and one of the Classical categories was malformation of children. Hence the Minotaur is a representation of that idea: Asterion indicates the divine anger at the Cretans. He also embodies the fear that genetically disabled individuals faced in pre-Enlightenment Europe.
Hence, a Minotaur could legitimately be used as a symbol for Otherness that any non-beautiful or mute person is faced with in our world.
I wasn't really trying to tie it to anything historically. More simply making a visual connection with the iconic "viking" helmet I grew up with.
That probably bothers me far less than someone (much like yourself, Im guessing) who has done the work to understand all the historical and mythological realities/roots.
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I just figured it was a literal re-envisioning of the Viking horned helmet thing. *shrugs*That's possible. It's certainly a way that the people of the Gaelic Isles may have imagined the vikings when they heard stories of them. Ever seen the Secret of Kells?Vikings didn't have horns or wings on their helmets. The only real horned helmets I'm aware of were Celtic, Bronze-age ceremonial garb, or on medieval knights. See here..
The Vikings were mythologized in Irish and Gaelic material primarily as Fomor. Also, Minotaurs come from Greek mythology, long before the Vikings or Norse existed as a piratical culture. Bulls have a major role in Indo-European legend as a symbol of masculine fertility and violence. Many examples, however, of half-human creatures are really rooted in misogynistic folklore or as explanations for tragically deformed births (literal 'monsters'). Monster means 'a thing as a warning' (monition) and one of the Classical categories was malformation of children. Hence the Minotaur is a representation of that idea: Asterion indicates the divine anger at the Cretans. He also embodies the fear that genetically disabled individuals faced in pre-Enlightenment Europe.
Hence, a Minotaur could legitimately be used as a symbol for Otherness that any non-beautiful or mute person is faced with in our world.
1. I am aware that the Viking did not actually wear orned helmets when they went out to battle, and whether these helmets were worn in ceremonies or completely imagined is moot: its how they were and are still remembered. And about the fomorians, well, we know that the Christianized Irish knew that the vikngs were human.
2. Also aware that minotaurs are a greek mythological creature.
There seems to be a tendency in this thread of assuming people dont know things/answering questions that arent asked. You are right though: