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When nerds try to say that they are more tolerant than others being a black guy that's been playing and running RPG's for about 30 years and have been into comics even longer?
I can say unequivocally that that's BS.
I just listened to Ryan Costello Jr and Reaper Bryan make that statement in one of the recent Know Direction podcast and became enraged. ENRAGED.
I just read the OSC thread here where posters basically blow off racisim as not that big of a deal compared to gay rights while some of them IN THE SAME BREATH cite the fight for gay rights as the same as the fight for civil rights. As a straight black male who actually doesnt see any difference between the fight for gay rights and the fight for civil rights or any difference between homophobia and racism it feels like a betrayal. It doesnt change my views but I cant help but be a little angry.
Anyway this is just a reminder for those who just love to say that racism is dead or just not that big of a deal or than no one sees black people (especially black men) like that:
Donald Glover talking about the fan response to him wanting to be Spider-Man
The struggle for civil rights has become... Confused... Lately. Seriously, I think the world could stand a black Peter Parker... It already has a black Spider man, as was pointed out in the comics. A bigger issue for me is, could they do something new with the character after fifty years? Something that was not cosmetics, but changed the concept? God knows they have tried...
Hey, there's only one guy who can pull off Spider-Man: David Hasselhoff.
(also, I can't believe you just called all nerds racist. Or even used 'nerds' as a demographic. :p)
As an aside, I hadn't really thought of Donald Glover (and I had to look up who that is. His name is Troy, you know :p) as a candidate for Spider-Man, but I could see it. He'd certainly have the "witty in-combat one-liners" shtick down to art.
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Honestly, I am personally opposed to changing Peter Parker's race because it seems like change for the sake of change and a publicity stunt. I'm already unhappy that the people at Fox and Sony can't manage to do a faithful translation of the comic book stories and characters on the big screen (don't let me begin about how they are making Wolverine the focus of the upcoming Days of Future Past X-Men movie, instead of Kitty Pryde. Grrrrrr. ) and having a black Peter Parker would just seem like another instance of executives poking fans in the eye. If they want to show a black Spiderman, make it Miles Morales ( and I have my own problems with that version, too, although not related to Miles himself, but to the fact that Ultimate Universe Peter Parker was killed off to make place for him ).
The guys at Marvel are so much better about this. While they change stories, it always seems respectful to their own source material.
Honestly, I am personally opposed to changing Peter Parker's race because it seems like change for the sake of change and a publicity stunt. I'm already unhappy that the people at Fox and Sony can't manage to do a faithful translation of the comic book stories and characters on the big screen (don't let me begin about how they are making Wolverine the focus of the upcoming Days of Future Past X-Men movie, instead of Kitty Pryde. Grrrrrr. ) and having a black Peter Parker would just seem like another instance of executives poking fans in the eye. If they want to show a black Spiderman, make it Miles Morales ( and I have my own problems with that version, too, although not related to Miles himself, but to the fact that Ultimate Universe Peter Parker was killed off to make place for him ).
The guys at Marvel are so much better about this. While they change stories, it always seems respectful to their own source material.
You say this as if there isn't precedence for character death in the Ultimate universe.
Most of the characters that we know of in the 616 universe? Their counterparts are DEAD in the Ultimate Universe. I've been reading Ultimate Spider-Man since issue #1. I have all of the hardcover trades (except ironically the last huge Death of Spider-Man one, but I have the single issues). I really, REALLY liked Peter Parker as he was portrayed in USM. BUT with everything that was going on in the Ultimate Universe there was NOTHING that made me think that he was going to be exempt from death.The Ultimate universe is NOT the 616. Things change there ALL THE TIME. It's so very different than the 616 that I dont even know how you can justify saying that "While they change stories, it always seems respectful to their own source material". Really? So Ben Grimm murdering Doom is respectful of the source material? Reed Richards becoming a villain is respectful of the source material. The Blob EATING the Wasp is respectful of the source material?
Bendis (the writer of the book for almost 10 YEARS) has a multi-racial family. One adopted African girl, one adopted African American girl and two children with his wife Alicia. This is also the guy that put an interracial relationship between Luke Cage (Black Male) and Jessica Jones (White Female) front and center in an Avengers book. I think him wanting to put a non-white and especially a black male (yes I know he's half Puerto Rican but when people look at him...) front and center in a "mainstream" book. So the whole publicity stunt thing is not something that I buy.
People say create a "new character" there are two big problems with that. One white readers will not support the book. People can make excuses about the art being bad or the story or writing being lame but if a book like Christopher Priest's BLACK PANTHER run cant survive in the comic book marketplace because people wont give it a chance? (And the ONLY reason that it survived as long as it did was because Joe Quesada loved that book and kept it alive.)Then there is NO hope for an original black character to do so.
Some of the reaction to Glover's wanting to be Spider-man is definitely racist. Not all of it though.
My excitement about the Miles Morales (announcement) was dulled very quickly by the DELUGE of racist, hateful crap that poured out on message boards, twitter and Facebook. Please don't do that thing where where the racism gets downplayed as just coming from a fringe portion of fandom. Even if wasn't the majority of fans there was more than enough of it to be an issue.
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I actually like Miles, from what I read in Spider-men.
I am assuming since 616 is 'status quo is god' we'll have Peter back eventually.
1616 is different thematically because death is real. That we could, in 20 years have a mutant as Captain America, little Tonies running around, and Jimmy Hudson and Kitty Pryde's son Phaserine, is a feature to me. I don't want to see 1616 turn into 616.
Aside, I think a Luke Cage movie would be awesome. One thing I found interesting about Blade was the diversity of the background cast. I don't like 'Falcon as eternal newbie' or 'War Machine always getting Jobbed.' I think Sam or Rhodey could be the main character in a movie.
Aside the second: Shin, I stopped peeking in the CBR forums because of the vitriol from the X-fans. I am a card carrying mutant, but the bitterness and contempt from those fans, soured me.
On topic, I don't know the actor, but to me, there'd have to be a heck of a good actor for a 'race lift' (Yes, MCD was a heck of a good actor in Daredevil.)
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You say this as if there isn't precedence for character death in the Ultimate universe.
Uh, no, I did not say that, so your entire rant is based on your own wrong impression of what I said. I just hated that they killed Peter Parker over there, because he was a better character than his 616 version.
Also, I personally did support Priest's Black Panther. It's a damned shame that he was replaced by Hudlin and I wish Priest would write for Marvel again, he was excellent.
Aside the second: Shin, I stopped peeking in the CBR forums because of the vitriol from the X-fans. I am a card carrying mutant, but the bitterness and contempt from those fans, soured me.
I have no idea what they put in the water over there, but the concentrated haterade a lot of the regulars spew everyday is extremely difficult to take. Even RACMX on Usenet, which had no moderators, was better behaved than the people with 10k+ posts over there, who just troll constantly for attention.
I think he's got a point. There were a lot of ignorant comments on the matter. Given the outrage that already existed when they made the Kingpin black in the Daredevil movie (and that later came about when they made Perry White black in the Superman movie), the notion that nerds are some super-enlightened group that doesn't discriminate is laughable.
That the people who get enraged at turning a white character black didn't bat an eye when Bane was played by a white guy in the Batman movie is even more telling.
Honestly, there are some characters whose race is so integral that it should not be changed. For example, I wouldn't want to see Luke Cage played by a Chinese guy. However, those characters are fewer and farther between than some people think.
The thing with most of the white male superheroes is that they were white and male mostly because that was the assumed default in the 1960s (and, honestly, is still the assumed default in the industry today). For most characters, their race can be changed without affecting the rest of the character. If you ask people who Peter Parker is as a character, you'll get a lot of answers, but almost nobody will say, "Caucasian." Peter is an everyman, and that everyman can be just about any race out there, especially in a setting as diverse as New York.
With all that said, I do think that it's worth noting that the reaction to Glover was not necessarily indicative of the majority of nerds. The Internet is not the place to gauge majority reactions, and a vocal minority should not be assumed to be indicative of nerd culture in general.
But yeah, racism is still totally a problem in our society, and there are plenty of racist nerds out there.
Uh, no, I did not say that, so your entire rant is based on your own wrong impression of what I said. I just hated that they killed Peter Parker over there, because he was a better character than his 616 version.
I agree with this. When they announced the death of Ultimate Peter Parker, my reaction was, "They're killing the wrong one." The Ultimate Universe had a Parker who was heroic, while the mainstream Marvel Universe has a self-centered manchild who I think has been pretty unlikeable and unheroic for almost a decade now.
Also, I personally did support Priest's Black Panther. It's a damned shame that he was replaced by Hudlin and I wish Priest would write for Marvel again, he was excellent.
Priest's Black Panther was awesome. Hudlin's, on the other hand is perfect to bring up in a conversation about nerds and racism, because it's one of the most racist things that mainstream comics has seen since the Silver Age.
On topic, I don't know the actor, but to me, there'd have to be a heck of a good actor for a 'race lift' (Yes, MCD was a heck of a good actor in Daredevil.)
I think the crux of the argument is right here. The problem isn't so much that people dismissed the idea of Glover as Spider-Man based on his acting strengths, but that a lot of folks didn't even want to see him considered based on his race.
(And yeah, Michael Clarke Duncan ruled as the Kingpin. It's a shame his talents were wasted in that movie.)
I agree with this. When they announced the death of Ultimate Peter Parker, my reaction was, "They're killing the wrong one." The Ultimate Universe had a Parker who was heroic, while the mainstream Marvel Universe has a self-centered manchild who I think has been pretty unlikeable and unheroic for almost a decade now.
That sums up my position perfectly.
Uh, no, I did not say that, so your entire rant is based on your own wrong impression of what I said. I just hated that they killed Peter Parker over there, because he was a better character than his 616 version.I agree with this. When they announced the death of Ultimate Peter Parker, my reaction was, "They're killing the wrong one." The Ultimate Universe had a Parker who was heroic, while the mainstream Marvel Universe has a self-centered manchild who I think has been pretty unlikeable and unheroic for almost a decade now.
Also, I personally did support Priest's Black Panther. It's a damned shame that he was replaced by Hudlin and I wish Priest would write for Marvel again, he was excellent.Priest's Black Panther was awesome. Hudlin's, on the other hand is perfect to bring up in a conversation about nerds and racism, because it's one of the most racist things that mainstream comics has seen since the Silver Age.
someone get me up to speed on the deal with the black panther writing? Pm me if necessary.
It's pretty ancient history by now. Around 2000, Christopher Priest was writing the Black Panther comic and wrote T'Challa as this really astute, cool costumer, who was making difficult decisions for his country and was outmaneuvering people like Tony Stark and Doctor Doom.
Then Priest was replaced by Reginald Hudlin, who... did not write T'Challa as such, but cleft to an interpretation which was much in line with T'Challa's portrayal from the sixties and seventies. I'm probably not really qualified to talk about Hudlins work, because I dropped the comic when they removed Priest. It was around the time when they also removed Robert Weinberg from Cable, for which I could rant for pages on end.
Not htat familiar with BP myself, but which of the two wrote the bit about Wakanda having the cure to cancer, and Black Panther basically tells the world "No, you can't have it."
That was Hudlin.
Hudlin also wrote an alternate universe tale called "Black to the Future" (no, I am not kidding, and yes, Family Guy did come up with that title first) in which the Avengers try to take over the world because they're all racist and the Black Panther saves the world by forcing America to make him President.
If there is anything to be learned from Hudlin's time on the title, it is that racism goes both ways and it is always terrible.
Hey, there's only one guy who can pull off Spider-Man: David Hasselhoff.
(also, I can't believe you just called all nerds racist. Or even used 'nerds' as a demographic. :p)
NO NO NO
Like I said before there it only one Spiderman... its ITALIAN Spiderman.
There is only one Thriller its INDIAN thriller.
Also Indian Chuck Norris. This is the best fight scene ever... its a slow burn though
Also, I personally did support Priest's Black Panther. It's a damned shame that he was replaced by Hudlin and I wish Priest would write for Marvel again, he was excellent.
Same here, at least once I "discovered" Priest around 2000 or so. I bought "The Crew" and "Cap & Falcon," too.
Is Priest writing anything these days? I don't know of anything he's done since the Cap/Falcon series and a couple of Green Lantern (?!?) novels.
As an aside, I really liked his take on Iron Man & Wolverine, and wish he would have been given the reigns to a "major" title.
I have no problem with a black spiderman. Race has zero relevance to Spiderman unlike such characters as Black Panther or Luke Cage. PP's problems, fears, and insecurities are familar to kids of all color. Every single person can relate to Peter Parker and that's a big reason why Spiderman is such a successful character.
Also Spiderman wears a full mask, this only adds to the idea that it could be anyone under that mask. Kids make-pretend they are superheroes all the time and to me telling a kid you can't play Spiderman because of the color of his skin is crazy talk.
It's a brilliant character. Truly one of the best.
Currently Andrew Garfield is doing a fantastic job with Peter Parker but I would like to see Donald Glover take on the character. I think he would do an awesome job with it.
-MD
When I first heard that Samuel Jackson was going to play Nick Fury in the Marvel movies, I was... confused. Frankly, I didn't like it. Had nothing to do with the idea that someone was black, it was simply that an established character that I'd once liked was being changed and, since Sam has a particular way about him that didn't fit in with the Nick Fury that I'd grown up with, it was really frustrating to me that they'd abandon the comic continuity that way.
However, I've been subsequently made aware by friends that Ultimate Universe's Nick Fury is partially based on Mr. Jackson... because he's a comic ner- er, I mean reads comics.
()
And that? Suddenly shifted me from, "Arg, what are they doing?!?!" to, "Oh, wow, that's so freaking cool!!!!" in the blink of an eye.
See, the thing is, when you've got a concept in your head of what a character is like, and someone portrays them substantially differently for no apparent (to you) reason - whether it's changing a character's race, gender identity, or the like - it's a pretty big deal.
And, yes, this does include changing ancillary elements to the character, and is not just limited to primary ones.
If the ancillary elements such as race, orientation, gender identity, or the like didn't matter, than there'd never be a cause to change them on the character because... they don't matter.
Changing an established character that way so that another group can relate to them, whether by altering their race (Fury, Spiderman-as-Miles), orientation (North Star, Batgirl), or whatsoever have you (you guys likely know more than I) is not inherently a bad thing and can be (and often is) a good thing but will, naturally, involve shutting off groups of people that strongly related to them based on their previously perceived* characteristics.
This is true regardless of anyone's feelings of a particular ancillary characteristic, because it's part of the nature of how people relate to other people. Especially in a primarily-visual medium like comics, a character's obvious racial characteristics is a pretty big deal, more-so than a change of costume because, you know, you can change out of the costume, but it's pretty hard to change your race.
I mean, Jackson's Fury in the Marvel movies is now one of my favorite things ever. I love it. But it was a hurdle to overcome, because I couldn't drop the image of the Nick Fury of my youth from a medium that's primarily made of visual images.
That said, there's a lot of haters who are stupid (or ignorant, misinformed, or otherwise firmly affixed to "hate"), too.
But blending the two just because they have similar reactions to a given idea isn't the right response either. Many people can (and will) be swayed given time and the right situation. I know, because I was.
* These perceptions could have been explicitly stated, could have been implied, or might never have been established but simply presumed based off of the current cultural status-quo.
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Quick aside,
No one changed Northstar's Orientation. He was always gay, albiet closeted by the comic code. Byrne was pretty good at getting crap under the radar with him though.
One of the abandoned storylines from AF when he 'came out' was how the Catholic persona of Aurora was coping with it. I was really hoping to see that touched on at his and Kyle's ceremony.
Yes, I was/am an Alpha Flight geek.
Quick aside,
No one changed Northstar's Orientation. He was always gay, albiet closeted by the comic code. Byrne was pretty good at getting crap under the radar with him though.
One of the abandoned storylines from AF when he 'came out' was how the Catholic persona of Aurora was coping with it. I was really hoping to see that touched on at his and Kyle's ceremony.
Yes, I was/am an Alpha Flight geek.
alpha flight will always remain one of my favorite teams.
I might be of a minority opinion, but I actually felt that Nick Fury (as he exists in the mainstream Marvel Universe) was one of the few white characters whose race was integral to the character. This was only due to historical precedent, since Fury began as Sergeant Fury of the Howling Commandos in World War II and I'm pretty sure that due to the time period a black character wouldn't have been able to be in that position.
Then again, it is worth noting that the Howling Commandos did have a black character on board when the comic came out, and this was an intentionally historically inaccurate move by Lee and Kirby.
Regardless, I guess it's a moot point, since the Sam Jackson Fury isn't the Nick Fury from mainstream comics*. Even ignoring the World War II backstory, he doesn't have the same attitude or demeanor as classic Fury. He does, however, work pretty well within the movies he's in. Thankfully, he's not really the Ultimate Nick Fury either, since he has yet to be that morally repugnant. He's his own incarnation of the character, and I think he's done a pretty good job with that incarnation so far.
*(Well, he technically is now, since old Nick Fury has been replaced by Nick Fury, Jr., who is modeled after the movie version of the character.)
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Yes, there are a lot of racist nerds. And liberals. And hipsters. Many people think that the word "racist" means that you have to be some sort of KKK cross burner or Nazi, so they reject the idea that they have racist attitudes and reactions that don't involve lynchings and white only water fountains.
That said, IMO Comics are a highly visual medium and people form attachments to how those characters look as much as they do their personality or heroics.
People dream of seeing live action versions of those characters and want them to match the look they've been accustomed to their entire lives. That's not, in and of itself, racist.
I've been reading pretty much the same comics that you guys have been reading since I was six or seven so I understand wanting to see the characters close to the same as I read them.
But that's not what I was talking about in the OP and you guys bringing that up almost seems to be excusing the utterly vile stuff that Donald Glover took for even suggesting a black Spider-Man. There's no excuse, NONE, for racist crap that was thrown his way.
I wasn't blaming all of the opposition on racism.
But the racism that came at Donald Glover and Brian Michael Bendis were very real and as a longtime comic book fan really damn hurtful.
One of the things that white (or non-black) comic fans always bring up when it's even suggested that their favorite characters race is going to change is "Why dont they create a NEW character! Don't mess with mine!!"
Miles Morales IS a new character. He's NOT a black Peter Parker. It's a Marvel Legacy character with someone being really inspired to take up the mantle of someone he REALLY admired. But to a lot of people that was wrong. And you cant tell me with a straight face that if they replaced Peter Parker with an alien, mutant or woman that the venom would have been the same. It's wouldn't have.
But that's not what I was talking about in the OP and you guys bringing that up almost seems to be excusing the utterly vile stuff that Donald Glover took for even suggesting a black Spider-Man. There's no excuse, NONE, for racist crap that was thrown his way.
I don't think anyone disagrees with that.
I think Donald Glover would make a great spiderman, but then again, I've never read a Spider-Man comic in my life so maybe I don't count.
Also, I originally misread the title as Donald Sutherland and I'm still kinda curious what the reaction would be if he demanded to be Spiderman.
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Also, I originally misread the title as Donald Sutherland and I'm still kinda curious what the reaction would be if he demanded to be Spiderman.
Matt: actually, that's really interesting. I wasn't aware!
Shin: I wasn't attempting to respond solely to your OP/the Glover situation, nor was I suggesting that racism wasn't present, and if it seems that way, I certainly apologize.
Rather, some of the subsequent things you and others pointed out looked like it was leaning in that direction and I wanted to point out that sometimes when people respond to the idea of someone's race changing with rage or frustration (as I did with Fury) it's not out of racism, but rather out of the sense of "this is the image I have".
One of the interesting things about this is that not just those who cry "racist" at those who aren't being racist are wrong.
Sometimes those who are reacting negatively to the racial change frankly get caught up in the furor and unintentionally become racist. An unfortunate side effect of having agreeing with some people is that you tend to side with them (and support their arguments) even if, in normal circumstances, you might otherwise not do so or find them repugnant.
And, you know, that's a really terrible thing to do. But it can give the impression that more people are <insert bad thing here> than really are, and that's pretty much the main reason I'm bringing this up.
Also, I'd like to point out:
* changing Parker with Ben Riley didn't work well
* changing Parker with Miles has been relatively well accepted
I say that not to dismiss the hate or vitriol that Miles has received. Because he's received a lot.
And yet, I've also seen a lot very high praise for him as well in many places... praise that was, in my experience (though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) lacking for Riley.
As NitR pointed out, absolutely there are racist (and other -ist) nerds/librals/<insert group here> because, you know, people, amirite?
In the Pacific Rim thread, someone mentioned that it wasn't really possible to be "racist" against "gypsies" (Roma) because they're basically white people. That's incredibly false and completely misunderstanding the source of racism (and any "ism" for that matter): the concept of someone looking, acting, or being different than yourself in some way allowing you to feel (and act upon the idea) that they are inferior or automatically corrupt or otherwise undesirable and less valuable as human beings.
And that's a terrible thing.
My point isn't to dismiss that racism is a thing. It's totally a thing. And that's pretty awful. Given that people are people, it'll probably always be a thing to some people somewhere.
My point was to (hopefully) generate hope among those who are feeling frustrated and noting that not everyone is resistant to change because they hate whoever you are, but rather, they're just resistant to change.
Give them time, and let them settle into the new way of things, and make the new way of things so daggum awesome that they can't help but love it, and, hopefully, like me with Fury, you'll see a lot of the resistance melt away to nothing.
You're right in your points on racism. I wasn't denying that or trying to refute you (or Mr. Glover).
I was just pointing out that some of that resistance might have just been "claimed" by a louder and racist group, when it wasn't really based on the same thing, and, hopefully, that resistance will melt.
Also, I don't know Donald Glover very well, but Danny's pretty close to being The Man for me. :D
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Wait, Donald Glover as in Community Donald Glover?
:-D
He's got the perfect demeanor to be Spider-Man!
(But only if Abed gets a cameo. It just wouldn't be right any other way.)
(I mean, I'll process the rest of what you said, but first I need to get over my happy.)
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The original thing happened over a year ago, and it was the event that inspired Brian Michael Bendis to replace Ultimate Peter Parker with Miles Morales. Ultimately a great decision, part of of Spider-Man's appeal is that anybody could be under that mask.
When I first heard about it I was taken aback, but when thinking about it I realized how cool it would be. Donald Glover would make a great Spidey.
There is no reason Spider-Man couldn't be black, or gay, or anything really. Hell in the ultimate u there is a female Peter Parker (who became Spider-Woman).
Ultimate MU is kind of gonzo if you think about it.
Oh, drat. Just realized this is just him wanting to play Spider-Man and not actually a thing that's happening.
OK, happy over.
I'll add that while I ducked out of the OSC thread fairly quickly except to check on flags, what I was seeing wasn't saying that racism < homophobia -- it was that comparing boycotting a movie to prevent OSC from getting money to give to NOM was different from boycotting anything based on Lovecraft because of Lovecraft's racism, because Lovecraft is long dead and not in a position to do any harm to non-white people, while OSC is very much alive and giving money to an organization that harms gay people.
The difference isn't in racism vs. homophobia, it's in whether the person benefitting from the sale of their work is actively using their money to attempt to enforce their prejudice.
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I might be of a minority opinion, but I actually felt that Nick Fury (as he exists in the mainstream Marvel Universe) was one of the few white characters whose race was integral to the character. This was only due to historical precedent, since Fury began as Sergeant Fury of the Howling Commandos in World War II and I'm pretty sure that due to the time period a black character wouldn't have been able to be in that position.
Then again, it is worth noting that the Howling Commandos did have a black character on board when the comic came out, and this was an intentionally historically inaccurate move by Lee and Kirby.
Regardless, I guess it's a moot point, since the Sam Jackson Fury isn't the Nick Fury from mainstream comics*. Even ignoring the World War II backstory, he doesn't have the same attitude or demeanor as classic Fury. He does, however, work pretty well within the movies he's in. Thankfully, he's not really the Ultimate Nick Fury either, since he has yet to be that morally repugnant. He's his own incarnation of the character, and I think he's done a pretty good job with that incarnation so far.
*(Well, he technically is now, since old Nick Fury has been replaced by Nick Fury, Jr., who is modeled after the movie version of the character.)
See, I thought just the opposite. There were 125,000 African-American soldiers fighting in WWII, mostly in their own segregated divisions. The commanding officers were white, but the junior officers were black.
A black Nick Fury given an experimental serum (the Infinity Formula)in WWII makes perfect sense, given the state of racism at the time, and historical events like the Tuskegee experiment. The Army would likely have no trouble using an African-American candidate for such a trial.
As for Peter Parker being black, I can see why people have trouble with it. After all, a poor black kid living in New York with a nontraditional family is a bit of a stretch...
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Or maybe some people just hate that Marvel movie characters and their stories are getting changed all nilly-willy, especially in the X-Men and Spiderman franchises.
I happen to have a deep respect for canon and since movie changes often show up in the comics and force the creators (due to editorial mandate) to radically change they characters there, it really irks me if deep character changes are forced that way.
My two cents here...
Personally I see comics as a visual medium and I want the characters to LOOK like they do in the comics. As such I do NOT want Donald Glover to play Spiderman.
I also do not want shiny metallic webbing on the costume. Nor do I like the complete redesign they did the for Amazing Spiderman reboot. (FYI, the one they have for AS2 actually looks like the BEST Spiderman costume ever...)
I did not like the Green Goblin power Ranger mask... I do not like Many MANY things that the movies have flat out gotten wrong.
No 'S' on superman's cape... black leather for X-men... killing Cyclops offscreen... For everything that the movies get right... there's something else that goes wrong.
A black Peter Parker is only ONE on a list of things I would not like.
The image is everything. If the actor doesn't fit my image of the character... I don't want him. And it's not a 'black' thing. I was against Ahhnold as Mr. Freeze. I was against a Blonde Vicki Vale.
My opinion of Miles as Spiderman? Honestly, I don't have one. I collected that book for YEARS... and LOVED Ultimate Peter. However once Bagley left the book, it was on borrowed time. I didn't like the new artist much. Then I heard Bendis was leaving (on the only book I liked him on) and they started rehashing the story from the ultimate Spiderman video game and I just dropped it. This was several years before the Death.
One thing I am curious about... Why is it, that if someone is against changing the race of a white character for no reason... it's racist. If a white person gets a role of an ethnic character (Elektra, prince of Persia, tonto, etc.) it gets the derogatory term 'whitewashing'?
Isn't it the same thing? When someone stands up and screams out that Elektra should be GREEK!! why's a WHITE girl getting the part!?!? how is that not racist too?
I think he's got a point. There were a lot of ignorant comments on the matter. Given the outrage that already existed when they made the Kingpin black in the Daredevil movie (and that later came about when they made Perry White black in the Superman movie), the notion that nerds are some super-enlightened group that doesn't discriminate is laughable.
That the people who get enraged at turning a white character black didn't bat an eye when Bane was played by a white guy in the Batman movie is even more telling.
Perry's a good example. Heimdell was another. They're such... background charcters that acting was more important than appearance. They made good choices by giving the part to those actors.
Wait... Bane's not white?
http://i.imgur.com/zBWNp.jpg
http://www.comicsbatman.fr/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/knightfall-le-défi-b ane-sans-masque.jpg
I never knew ;)
I think you will find Greek people consider themselves white... I think the word you are looking for is Mediterranean. Why is a Northern European person playing Elektra and not Mediterranean person.
Probably the same reason the had a Chinese actress play the lead roll in memoirs of a Geisha and not a Japanese actress - Hollywood is full of racist s~$+ heads who are culturally insensitive, and use stereotypes because they are lazy, assume that the American people are stupid and want to perpetuate the American myth of exceptionalism and superiority by making cartoonish depictions of people of other countries and cultures.
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When nerds try to say that they are more tolerant than others being a black guy that's been playing and running RPG's for about 30 years and have been into comics even longer?
I can say unequivocally that that's BS.
Not really. Its a numbers game. You're never going to eliminate all the idiots, especially on the interwebz. More tolerant really isn't that high of a bar unfortunately...
That said, I don't like the idea of a black spider man, the same way i don't like the idea of a black person playing George Washington, a skinny shrimp playing Perrin Aybara, or a white person playing Static Shock because its not accurate to the character. I know that sounds weird to ascribe accuracy to fiction but to geeks the cannon characters are real.
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Wait, Donald Glover as in Community Donald Glover?
:-D
He's got the perfect demeanor to be Spider-Man!
Eeeexactly!
(Also, if the OP had just used his real name, Troy, there would be a lot less confusion. :p)
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Relevant to that line of discussion.
Speaking of dreamcasting and guys named Isaiah, I'm still hoping Isaiah Mustafa gets to fulfill his hopes of playing Luke Cage. Dude's a total geek.
You know how Kevin Smith named his daughter after Harley Quinn?
The Old Spice Guy named his daughter after an alternate universe one-shot Harley Quinn.
Man...
Sure, but they wouldn't have put him in charge of a non-black unit - The Howling Commandos.
Similarly, you could argue that they might...
I liked how they actually commented on that in the Ultimates. Paraphrasing here... but when Nick Fury introduced himself as General to a 'defrosted' rogers... He made a commment about how the nazi trick was over... Your accents pretty good but the highest ranking black guy was a friend of his and only a captain...
or something like that.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Matt: actually, that's really interesting. I wasn't aware!
The one I remember is after Madison Jefferies single handed kicked the collective asses of Omega flight, with a VW Bug* they discussed if he should be a full fledged Alphan. Aurora (with the Aurora persona of course) wnated to design his costume. Northstar snarks "Something skintight and form fitting now doubt." Aurora replies "Since when have you complained about well dressed men?"
There's also a touching scene when Walter comes back from the dead, where he comments that Aurora isn't the only one who missed him, strongly implying that Jean Paul was also attracted to Walter.
*
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm a fan of the 'new character' myself.
The concern some had with Miles was that he was going to be a "quota character." Instead of a character. "Hey, we need diversity, let's kill off PP and make a MM!" That (it's my understanding, I don't read UM) he's not, is what makes him attractive.
To use a 616 analogy. Stick Rhodey in the armor, he's not 'Black Iron Man' trying to be Tony Stark. He's Jim Rhodes, Iron Man. One of the things I liked about the first War Machine book was that Rhodey did things differently. He couldn't fix the War Machine or improve it the way Tony does. Tony goes "Hmm, it's immune to X, I'll build Y." Rhodey goes "Crap! It's immune to X being used this way let me try it this way!"
(as an example I'd have liked it to be Rhodey's idea to kill Whiplash with the Repulsor trick in IM2, to show he works better with the tools given.)
And yes, background characters are more prone to 'getting away with change' (within reason. Sif shouldn't be a guy, Vostagg shouldn't be a skinny guy, and Fandral the Dashing shouldn't look like me. :P)