If you can prebuff they're good. Unfortunately if you can prebuff the encounter is likely easy if the group has a substantial amount of magic.
I am not necessarily saying they are all valid reasoning in action. But they are the reasons given. Maybe the single spell specialized magus is not optimal. But it is what you mostly see. (I saw another this Saturday at level 9. It was easily 90% shocking grasp or the same spell with an altered energy type.) That will greatly color perceptions.Most of the ones you see do have almost the same spells every day and don't have access to a bunch of the utility spells that many people want out of their gish character.
Many of them do nova all their spells in the first fight or 2 and then want to rest because they are out.
If you don't let them rest and they have to fight without spells those same guys get stomped.Never said it is the best way it can be played. But it is the way many of them are played.
Not all magi choose to pigeonhole themselves into that trap.
Some are built to deal damage without spells while maintaining a high AC and good saves. At level 8, my magus has a 32 AC with just Mage Armor + Shield. Add in Haste + Mirror Image and he is the tank.
Umm between 10 minute/level buffs, spell combat and hasted assault as a swift action, you don't need time to pre-buff.
If you can prebuff they're good. Unfortunately if you can prebuff the encounter is likely easy if the group has a substantial amount of magic.
I am not necessarily saying they are all valid reasoning in action. But they are the reasons given. Maybe the single spell specialized magus is not optimal. But it is what you mostly see. (I saw another this Saturday at level 9. It was easily 90% shocking grasp or the same spell with an altered energy type.) That will greatly color perceptions.Most of the ones you see do have almost the same spells every day and don't have access to a bunch of the utility spells that many people want out of their gish character.
Many of them do nova all their spells in the first fight or 2 and then want to rest because they are out.
If you don't let them rest and they have to fight without spells those same guys get stomped.Never said it is the best way it can be played. But it is the way many of them are played.
Not all magi choose to pigeonhole themselves into that trap.
Some are built to deal damage without spells while maintaining a high AC and good saves. At level 8, my magus has a 32 AC with just Mage Armor + Shield. Add in Haste + Mirror Image and he is the tank.
Quicken Mage Armor, Spell COmbat Shield
next round, Spell Combat Haste...
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If you can prebuff they're good. Unfortunately if you can prebuff the encounter is likely easy if the group has a substantial amount of magic.
I am not necessarily saying they are all valid reasoning in action. But they are the reasons given. Maybe the single spell specialized magus is not optimal. But it is what you mostly see. (I saw another this Saturday at level 9. It was easily 90% shocking grasp or the same spell with an altered energy type.) That will greatly color perceptions.Most of the ones you see do have almost the same spells every day and don't have access to a bunch of the utility spells that many people want out of their gish character.
Many of them do nova all their spells in the first fight or 2 and then want to rest because they are out.
If you don't let them rest and they have to fight without spells those same guys get stomped.Never said it is the best way it can be played. But it is the way many of them are played.
Not all magi choose to pigeonhole themselves into that trap.
Some are built to deal damage without spells while maintaining a high AC and good saves. At level 8, my magus has a 32 AC with just Mage Armor + Shield. Add in Haste + Mirror Image and he is the tank.
At 8th level, Mage Armor has an eight hour duration. Shield can be cast with spell combat on the opening round if needed. Haste and Mirror Image are only used when truly necessary or against the BBEG. They are also cast via spell combat.
Resource management skills are key. You don't waste spells on trivial encounters.
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I am not necessarily saying they are all valid reasoning in action. But they are the reasons given. Maybe the single spell specialized magus is not optimal. But it is what you mostly see. (I saw another this Saturday at level 9. It was easily 90% shocking grasp or the same spell with an altered energy type.) That will greatly color perceptions.Most of the ones you see do have almost the same spells every day and don't have access to a bunch of the utility spells that many people want out of their gish character.
Many of them do nova all their spells in the first fight or 2 and then want to rest because they are out.
If you don't let them rest and they have to fight without spells those same guys get stomped.Never said it is the best way it can be played. But it is the way many of them are played.
Not all magi choose to pigeonhole themselves into that trap.
Some are built to deal damage without spells while maintaining a high AC and good saves. At level 8, my magus has a 32 AC with just Mage Armor + Shield. Add in Haste + Mirror Image and he is the tank.
Again, I'm not saying it is the best or only way to run or build a magus. (My magus is nothing like that either. Click on the avatar to the left to seem my wand/whip trip/disarm magus.)
The OP asked why people don't like them. Many people don't like them because of what they see/hear about them.When people look around at their fellow PC's at a PFS table, that someone brought to a home game, a pickup game at a store, read about on these forums, whatever... Almost everyone of them is: Scimitar with umpteen castings of the same spell going for the crit on the shocking grasp. You might see a slight difference in which touch spell they use. The most significant difference is likely whether it is a high strength power attack or dervish dance magus.
I was at 2 tables at GenCon this weekend (had a blast btw), there were 3 magi other than mine. All 3 fit the above description to perfection. Everyone looked at me like I was insane for having a magus that did not fit that mold. (Yes, I like that reaction. Especially when I save their life.) I don't think any of them had ever seen any other kind of magus.
That is one of the main reasons why many people don't like magus. That narrow nova scimitar shocking grasp build is virtually all they ever see.
Are there better (or at least different) ways to build play them? Obviously yes.
My most effective Magi were a Dex (ish) Kensai magus with a Katana and abusing Bladed Dash to pretty much bounce all around the battlefield killing things off quickly...
Or the Defiler Hexcrafter... who is pretty much the nastiest thing you can bring to a table...
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BuildThe actual character is 26 point buy, the numbers quoted are from after converting it to 20 point buy. The character is still at WBL for that level.
Buffs are: Shield, Haste, Heroism, False Life, Bear's Endurance, Monstrous Physic II(yeti)
Next level I can wear fullplate, which will be nice.
Thank you! I've become very interested in alternate magus builds lately (esp Int builds), and you've brought a lot of things to the table that I hadn't really considered.