stealthymonkeyman's page

Why not simply use spell blending at epic levels. You technically get the slots.

This is a tough one but I believe it does.

The Magus can get higher level spells because of spell blending. Its not much but its legit. A feat for one to two spells.

Seem legit to me. River whip I'll keep that in mind nice trick.

The problem is that such a "school of thought" is contrary to the general statements of the rules, which describe what you can do, not what you can't-- so "the rules don't say I can't" is not a valid argument. The general rule is that you need to qualify for a feat to take it.

The specific rule is that some abilities, like the Ranger, let you bypass pre-reqs. They will be noted as such, as all specific rules must be.

Note that one could apply this same logic to, say, the first-level Fighter feat. It only says the fighter gains "a bonus feat", and is non-indicative whether that means it's a feat that they must qualify for or not-- if I really intend it to be, 'bonus' is just as broad a word as 'any'. Ask yourself if you would allow a first-level Fighter to take Stunning Critical, and that's the answer to the question of whether or not the Loremaster can do the same.

Incidentally, Bane Blade has been brought up of being questionably useful. One of the nicer edges that it has is that it lets a high-level Magus make use of a mere +4 weapon like it's a +10-- Bane Blade is written very differently from the other arcanas that add properties to the Magus' enhancement ability.

Insofar as actual damage output: We'll work with level 15 (when Bane Blade comes in) versus AC30 (Monster Creation Chart average for CR15). Assume Haste and Heroism are in play. Figure Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasp with Spell Combat and Intensified Empowered Quickened Shocking Grasp, both delivered via Spellstrike. I worked with a Str/Dex of 26, derived from starting at 18, +6 from a Belt, and +2 from levels. The weapon is a +5 Keen Spell Storing rapier [Though it's a good choice, Spell Storing will be ignored here because its damage is fixed], after Magus enhancement. Precise Strike is in play.

Thus we get:
Normal attack: 27.3375
BAB-5: 18.225
BAB-10: 9.1125
Spellstrike: 119.2125

Total damage is 201.225. With Quicken it jumps to 320.4375

Add Bane:
Normal attack: 40.9275
BAB-5: 28.89
BAB-10: 16.8525...

Yeap I see your point and it's right, regarding lore master. Regarding shocking grasp, I really find it cheesy, I like the feel of the magus, the action economy, Dervish Dance is good, what about crossblooded orc/draconic combined with intensified fireball certainly the damage coming out there s good and helps with crowd control.

stealthymonkeyman wrote:

From what I can tell the intent seems that you qualify for "Any one feat", "Any one feat" for purpose of requirements is "Any One Feat". with the narrow reading of the class feature overwriting the general, however feel free to disagree as it does not seem so clear cut, the word "Any" does not say "Any one you qualify for" nor should it be implied to say so. Any is Any and in this case in my opinion many.

This is incorrect. You must always meet the prerequisites for a feat in order to select it unless the class ability that's granting you the feat specifically states that you do not have to meet the prerequisites.

Furthermore, every ability [of which I'm aware] that exists which does grant a feat for which you can ignore prerequisites does so from a specific, limited list of feats.

Well incorrect or not, I think this should be clarified by a developer as the word "Any" can cause confusion to "any feat you can qualify for" much in the same way the "instant mastery" for loremaster is quite clear.

-"1 Instant mastery 4 ranks of a skill in which the character has no ranks"-

I am from the school of thought that unless articulated it is permitted.

@CLH - It's projection at this point because that encounter is still a long ways off. The PCs are only level 9 right now and that encounter isn't going to occur until they're around level 16. If the party is averaging high 30s or better ACs then I'm definitely going to have to get the character a higher to hit total. The problem is that both Arcane Strike and Arcane Accuracy both eat up your swift action, so I'll have to dig elsewhere for bonuses.

@Capt. Darling - See above. Group isn't to the point where they're encountering that kind of high level stuff.

@stealthymonkeyman - Applicable Knowledge doesn't help you get early entry because nothing about the ability allows you to bypass feat prerequisites.

From what I can tell the intent seems that you qualify for "Any one feat", "Any one feat" for purpose of requirements is "Any One Feat". with the narrow reading of the class feature overwriting the general, however feel free to disagree as it does not seem so clear cut, the word "Any" does not say "Any one you qualify for" nor should it be implied to say so. Any is Any and in this case in my opinion many.

As it is I do not think the class stalls at all there. Shocking Grasp seems a little weak in savings throws in the latter levels so Frostbite might work better.I would always go Frostbite/Enforcer/Rime Spell the numbers don't spike as high as Shocking Grasp but the damage is more consistent and less random and the control elements can save your bacon and resource management are easier.

Ughbash wrote:

stealthymonkeyman wrote:

Precise strike, you can loremaster to get spell perfection earlier then 15th but sacrifice capstone.

Unless I am missing something I do not see how the loremaster lets you get Spell perfection early. Even with the instant skill secret which gives you 4 ranks you are still limited to your level in ranks.

What am I missing?

Pretty sure you're not missing anything. I know of no shortcut that allows you to gain more ranks in a skill than you have hit dice. Furthermore, magus doesn't qualify for loremaster until 16th level unless you take the spell blending arcana to get a divination spell from the wiz/sorc list.

Secret 8 is Applicable knowledge Any one feat

This would require a high Int modifier, but possible, and yes your right spell blending was used once.

I for one are not that impressed with bane+2 and 2d6 damage extra at level 15 is Nice but it have a cost and unless you in most figth meet only one race it is not that great. Bane is too one Specific race every time after all.

I dont Think High level magi have damage issues but i wouldent take Bane.

Yeap, your spot on.

Sorry to necro this thread but I think Magi get access to the Evasive Deed, They do get Evasion, Uncanny dodge, and Improved Uncanny so in this way they get some good stuff.

Martial versatility + hex strike is awesome I never would have thought of that.

Precise strike, you can loremaster to get spell perfection earlier then 15th but sacrifice capstone. So you quicken an extra attack, boots of haste for free action attack, otherworldly kimono if your gm is nice, bladebound helps with black blade strike. Power attack for a magus I think is a trap. Bladed dash and greater bladed dash to cloud strife it up, forceful strike if your gm let's you. You can go trip build hexcrafter with stone spirit hex since mountain witch gets this in acg only costs one arcana. So in short you can create a trip build/dervish dance build with minimum feat selection, magic missile with tooling spell elf/otherworldly kimono for more control. Go into crafting for more options, you can do a bit of everything, damage for a magus since ACG should not be a prob.

I don't understand a lot of what's being said I would have agreed prior to ACG. The magus was okay but not great but since the intro of precise strikes. The magus base damage has become a lot more competitive.

Based on that logic a bladed scarf / bladebound / hex crafter. Would be a possible build combo and still retain spell recall at 11. What a beast that would be Go elf for extra arcana or take human with racial. OMG hexes, AC, and OMG its just a scarf eat your face yum yum yum.

Warning Rant Ahead,

This looks to be a dead chain, but people hate the magus because it can do almost everything faster then other classes, Action economy is a big thing in pathfinder and anyone that can cast and attack in the same round has a bit of an edge. They get arcana that can potentially cherry pick the best spells up to lvl 6 and with arcane points cast as a spontaneous caster while having few of the disadvantages associated with that. Also with Advanced class guide and precise strike being a thing, with Dervish Dance or Slashing Grace combined with precise strike the magus are magic swashbucklers now one handed combat damage is quite good without heavy resource expenditures. AC can be pumped quite easily depending on archetype (I'm not going to say more 32 AC is easily attainable).

Classes in my opinion that can do awesome stuff fast are Arcanist, Summoner, Druid, Magus, Warpriest, Bard(Support but must be heaavily optimized with right archetypes and right spells), Zen Archer/Quigong, Clerics with clever domains choices and to a much lesser extent (Inquisitor). Of the top of my head. In my experience these guys can always maximize action economy through the good use of multiple npc's or move action, swift action, and standard action abilities. (all this is just my opinion feel free to chime in as I am sure there are more classes but these have been my personal experiences).

So in short don't get mad get optimized, Cause if the DM won't allow option 1 you can always go option 2 - 7 and still get a similar result.

Mind you I would never play a fighter but between nimble, evasive, precise strike and swashbuckler weapon training what more does one need. I can reliably hit as hard as a fighter, have good(not great) AC and I can cast spells, what's not to love. But fighter was always boring anyways not a huge loss.

Where looking at precise strike only but there are other incredible deeds that make the magus hit more accurately and harder and increases ac. The Magus just got a major power up in ACG why would I ever play a fighter again.

I think we should address the magus class as a whole since the release of advanced class guide the Magus class has been revamped and made much more desireable thanks to the ability to pick up swashbuckler deeds for GM's that do not use it yet it will be at your table soon. A lot of the damage issues with the magus have been mitigated and somewhat fixed as a result I'm referering to precise strike deed. As per pre advanced class guide. The magus is incredibly versatile class has access to some decent spells and through arcana can get even more. By mixing and matching archetypes it is possible to create monstrous creations of magic and steel. But when playing the magus you can derive just as much pleasure for battlefield control. The fabulous wall of force and stone are in this spell list and with improved / Spell recall the magus breaches the spontaneous / prepared caster divide (something that is similarly done with arcanist in ACG). The magus excels in combat if properly optimized and with a dex/int build is min max friendly. Is it on the same level of paizo introduced brokeness as say the summoner. No, But it has stellar action economy if resources are a problem it fuel attacks with quicken cantrip spellstrikes and with ACG gets comparable damage to a fighter. Because of hit points a high con is recommended, the magus gets good press because he can do a bit of everything but unlike everyone else he can do it all in the same round and is usually up and running while everyone is still buffing etc... Resources are a problem but there are ways to mitigate these true the dungeon crawl will be difficult but seems to be the only situation and even then whats to stop someone from casting a well hidden rope trick and staying the night. Unless the GM just happens to have a wizard to dispel(unlikely) and because of extradimensional space we are harder to scry. Im just saying I played a magus. Summoner. Sorceror, Ranger, zen archer. And as a magus I feel like batman all the time. I love the class and can see how some people find it overpowered but its oozes with flavor, style, and class.

whoops old thread :)

Bard's can be a tier 2 class if the magician archetype is used combine with sound striker archetype and you have a bard that potentially does not need weapons. If at level 11 with Virtuoso performance and Paragon Surge as a half elf and you have a bard that has ton of choices and a quicken rod and you have blaster/controller/ Ranged striker through Archery or Weird words monster. In the bard you have the face/ the saves/ most importantly the role playing/ the healing ability and control and damage aspects to dominate (literally) the field of play. But I wouldn't have it any other way cause it has to be built that way to pull it off.

Are you referring to munchkin like behaviour with spell combat and magus switching weapon grips as a free action that seems legit raw wise but I Don't know if that was intended that way. My question is directed in a different vein can you not use the ROD as the weapon itself. It would be weapon which you can then enchant with spell storing and then using arcana's spell strike through the rod with high SR and DC because of rod mastery and rod wielder. You give up spell crit but at least your spells will hit.

Would you need improvised weapon for that or just use them as a "can function as light maces or clubs due to their hardy construction." It seems a little vague.

I was thinking along the same vein as Seraphimpunk would a Rod build work for the Magus with spell storing the Arcana's look much more attractive like that and DC and Spell Penetration would be a lot higher.