So I decided to come up with a partbreed eidolon player race. The issue of course is limiting the power of evolutions to the player race, though I think I made a good start to that at least.
This is what I have so far,
Warped
Born from an unnatural union of humanoid and eidolon, the Warped are forever marked by their planar heritage.
Warped Racial Traits:
Type:Outsider(native)
Ability score modifiers
+2 to any ability score, and a -2 to any ability score. The warped are capable of significant racial variety, but are always marked by some kind of flaw.
Evolving Blood: At 1st level all Warped receive 2 evolution points, for which they may spend on Eidolon evolutions as if they were an Eidolon with the biped base form. They automatically qualify for the extra evolutions feat and may choose to grant any number of the evolution points to themselves instead of their Eidolon (if they have one), however they may only use the feat on themselves a total of three times. For every 5 character levels they possess they gain an additional evolution point to spend. The evolutions the Warped gains are permanent and they cannot be the subject of spells that change or grant Evolutions, such as Transmogrify or Evolution Surge.
any thoughts on how to flesh this out a bit more?
On second thought I'll just rewrite Extra evolution to avoid that unnecessary line.
Extra Evolution
Your eidolon (or you) has more evolutions.
Prerequisite: Eidolon class feature, or have the Evolving Blood Racial Feature
Benefit: Your eidolon’s (or your) evolution pool increases by 1.
Special: You can gain Extra Evolution multiple times,
but only once for every five summoner levels you possess.If your character is using this feat to increase their own evolutions via the Evolving Blood racial trait, they may substitute their character level for their Summoner level.
Any thoughts on an alternate name for these guys?
I'd give them just one evolution point, myself, as gaining '1' with no others prior is worth a feat. Think of it as the ability to use evolution points itself being worth 1 point.
Also, this could be rather powerful for certain summoner classes... Maybe to help counteract that, have the -2 always be on Charisma. Being funky with an extra mouth on your arm or something isn't that endearing, right?
Also needs a little fleshing out- maybe give them +2 to a pair of skills, and a small-but-strange ability, like a specific spell-like ability. The choice between enlarge person or reduce person, self only, 1/day, maybe?
I'd give them just one evolution point, myself, as gaining '1' with no others prior is worth a feat. Think of it as the ability to use evolution points itself being worth 1 point.
Also, this could be rather powerful for certain summoner classes... Maybe to help counteract that, have the -2 always be on Charisma. Being funky with an extra mouth on your arm or something isn't that endearing, right?
Also needs a little fleshing out- maybe give them +2 to a pair of skills, and a small-but-strange ability, like a specific spell-like ability. The choice between enlarge person or reduce person, self only, 1/day, maybe?
Do you mean 1 point Total at level 20? Because looking over the 1 point evolutions I don't see any (that they actually qualify for), that are worth a feat outside resistances which is quickly reduced in value, and natural attacks. If we limited them to 1 point evolutions they might be more balanced. As it stands they get a total of 6 ep by level 20, 9 if they sink 3 feats in, and that's if they never ever spent any over the course of a 20 level career. I do agree on the charisma thing though, and would go as far as -4 do to the sheer wrongness they exude, and maybe the unnatural racial trait as well. I was thinking a +2 insight bonus to knowledge(planes) and maybe Disfiguring touch 1/day? What other skill bonus do you think they should receive?
I mean 1 point at level 1, then gain at 5, 10, 15, 20... Total 5 base.
And maybe allow them to change their mutation by spending a day of contemplation? A day should work for that- I mean, it's not exactly exploitable in such a case, and avoids this being relegated to a 'high-level game race'.
I'd do -4 only if they gained a bonus to Con, really.
I'd think for skills, maybe bluff and intimidate? To make up for what'd be a hefty charisma penalty.
And ultimately, I don't think the spell-like should be offensive. Maybe a good utility- I can see Disguise Self, certainly!
I had a very similar idea a while back for one of my setting-specific race, which you can find here.
Hopefully, it provides some inspiration. The only changes I made to it in my final draft was to remove anything that was Su or Sp, though for "eidolon blooded" like yours, you could leave those in easily.
Have to agree with Raider on dropping the Disfiguring Touch - while way cool and on theme from a flavor perspective I'd be wary of giving these guys an offensive SLA carte blanche. While other races do have offensive SLAs they also don't have other evolutions like this guy!
Generally though, I'm liking this a lot!
Warped
Born from an unnatural union of humanoid and eidolon, the Warped are forever marked by their planar heritage.
Warped Racial Traits:
Type:Outsider(native)
Ability score modifiers
+2 con, +2 wis, -4 chr. The Warped strong of body and exceptionally aware, but they exude a powerful wrongness that other beings are sensitive to.
Aberrant Nature:Because the union that produce is violently against nature, the Warped are treated as Aberrations for the purposes of all effects.
Mark:all Warped bear an eidolon's mark, functioning in all ways the same, revealing them as different
Evolving Blood: At 1st level all Warped receive 1 evolution point, for which they may spend on an Eidolon evolution as if they were an Eidolon with the biped base form, and their effective summoner level for such evolutions is equal to their character level. For every 5 character levels they possess they gain an additional evolution point to spend. The evolutions the Warped gains may be changed as a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity, they do this a number of times per day equal to their constitution modifier.
skills: The Warped receive a +2 bonus on intimidate and knowledge planes checks.
Repression: This functions as a Disguise Self spell-like ability, save that they can only disguise themselves in the form of what they look like with no visible evolutions. They can use this a number of times per day equal to their Constitution Modifier.
Resistant Form:The warped receive a +4 bonus on saves to resist being polymorphed against their will.
for those wondering what inspired this thought in the first place, it was Elghin Lightbringer's Planerbound bloodline from the multiclass archtypes thread.
You possess a strange affinity towards summoned creatures, such as eidolons. As such, your obsession with extraplanar beings has become a source of tremendous power, allowing you to call forth a creature from the outer planes to serve you. For you, the planes are where your true home is, but since you can’t go there you bring their inhabitants to you.
Class Skill: Knowledge (Planes).
Bonus Spells: unfetter* (3rd), evolution surge (lesser)* (5th), life conduit (improved)† (7th), evolution surge* (9th), transmogrify* (11th), evolution surge (greater)* (13th), purified calling* (15th), rejuvenate eidolon (greater)* (17th), summon monster XI (19th). (*Advanced Player’s Guide, †Ultimate Combat)
Bonus Feats: Augment Summoning, Extra Evolution, Fey Foundling, Nimble Moves, Sense Link, Spell Focus (conjuration), Silent Spell, Still Spell.
Bloodline Arcana: You have a considerable knack for summoning creatures from other planes which grants you a +1 bonus to your caster level whenever you cast summon monsters or any similar spell that summons extraplanar creatures to the Material plane.
Bloodline Powers: With a strong tie to the planes, you are sought after as a source of knowledge about them, as well as an ally by those in search of powerful extraplanar to assist in their cause.
Sorcerer’s Eidolon (Su): Starting at 1st level, you can summon forth an eidolon. This eidolon otherwise functions as the summoner’s eidolon class feature, except for the following changes. Your eidolon it is not as powerful as that of the summoner. Therefore, you effective summoner level for determining your eidolon’s advancement is equal to your sorcerer level –3 (minimum 1). You use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Charisma modifier to determine any effects pertaining to this feature. You reduce the listed number of evolution points gained at each level by 2 (see Table: Eidolon Base Statistics), and the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks never increases above 3.
In addition, due to the power your eidolon expends, you must sacrifice some of your own whenever you summon it. Starting at 4th level, whenever your eidolon is summoned, you lose access to your highest level of spells until it has been dismissed. At 10th level, whenever your eidolon is summoned, you lose access to your two highest levels of spells until it has been dismissed. At 16th level, whenever your eidolon is summoned, you lose access to your three highest levels of spells until it has been dismissed.
Bonded Sense (Su): At 3rd level, you gain the summoner’s bonded sense class feature, but use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Charisma modifier to determine the number of rounds the ability can be used each day.
Summon Monster (Su): At 9th level, you can cast summon monster IV as a spell-like ability once per day. Drawing upon this ability uses up the same power that you use to call your eidolon. As a result, you can only use this ability when your eidolon is not summoned. You can cast this spell as a standard action and the creatures remain for 1 minute per level (instead of 1 round per level). At 12th level, and every 3 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one spell level, allowing you to summon more powerful creatures (to a maximum of summon monster VII at 18th level).
Greater Shield Ally (Su): At 15th level, your eidolon can protect you or your allies. You gain the summoner’s greater shield ally class feature.
Merge Forms (Su): At 20th level, you can become one with your eidolon. You gain the summoner’s merge forms class feature.
So I had a feat in mind to help these guys out with bards, paladins, sorcerers, and to a lesser degree summoners.
Behavioral Study
Your awareness of others from the perspective of an outsider has allowed you to analyze what makes gives some personalities more powerful than others.
Prerequisites
Evolving blood racial trait, Intelligence 14, Wisdom 14
Benefit
You may substitute your Intelligence modifier for your charisma modifier for any class abilities that use Charisma. The exceptions to this are bonus spells granted from a high charisma score(ex charisma based casters)and spell-like abilities whose uses per day are determined by charisma(ex:Summoner).
That write-up was SO close, but then you went and derped it :c
"The evolutions the Warped gains may be changed as a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity, they do this a number of times per day equal to their constitution modifier."
Gonna be broken. Especially with feats/etc.
Seriously- grab a Magic/Breath, use it, switch back. +5 con mod? Plenty of uses!
I am not convinced that them having to spend actual resources to make the ability to work is broken, as it is they are equivalent to a level 3 eidolon in terms of evolutions, and thats by level 20 without getting the armor bonus and evasion. If it is a problem, then i can just change it to 3 times a day.
This is a race, not a class feature, and that has to be remembered when you consider balance.
Yeah - that was the reasoning behind my support of Raider before - this isn't a class, but a race that kind of feels like a class, or beginning to emulate Palladium's old R.C.C.'s - on it's own it isn't sooo bad, but in conjunction WITH a class it could easily be. I do see that at level 20 it still isn't huge but it's the ability to change it up so much, just as an innate ability that concerns me.
+5 - what are the resources being used with the Warped ability - I'm missing something?!?!
Personally i would rather just limit them access to 1st and 2nd evolutions and count their effective summoner level as half their character level. THAT is what solve power issues with this race.
Yeah - that was the reasoning behind my support of Raider before - this isn't a class, but a race that kind of feels like a class, or beginning to emulate Palladium's old R.C.C.'s - on it's own it isn't sooo bad, but in conjunction WITH a class it could easily be. I do see that at level 20 it still isn't huge but it's the ability to change it up so much, just as an innate ability that concerns me.
+5 - what are the resources being used with the Warped ability - I'm missing something?!?!
rather than being freeform like an eidolon, their shifting manifestations take a toll on their body.
The only expenditure I'm seeing is the full round action, limited to a number of times/day equal to Constitution modifier. The Constitution becomes the flavor for the resource limit, but is not actually expended - I'm not seeing the "toll".
Now that I think about it a little more I'm wanting to see some examples - it takes a full round to change out your evolution load (1ep at 1st level, 2 at 6th? Or is is 1/5/10/15/20?) say one round at least to actually utilise your new load (unless it's a static buff type) and then another full round to change to a new different loadout. At high levels, wouldn't losing a full-round action just to juggle your evolutions be more crippling than the benefit your new evolution provides?
Either way, there's still the issue of versatility especially when this is only a race and not a participle of a class.
The aasimar has the equivalent of 7 ep at level 1. 9 if you count the lack of a negative modifier
the catfolk catfolk has 4 ep plus additional features.
The drow have 4 EP for 2 spell-like abilities alone, and have the poison use class feature
the fetchlings have 5 Ep worth of abilities and a scaling use of better and better sla's, as well as other class features.
This does draw my attention to skilled, which I am of the opinion is WAY underpriced for the benefit, so I think the warped should only get a +2 benefit. Also being outsiders they should have darkvision. As far as the limiter goes it more represents the amount of shift your body can stand before it simply refuses to do anymore. If it would make anyone feel better I could borrow from Da'ath and and give them the sickened condition afterward, but the lack of in combat utility was intentional. As it is I don't see the tremendous combat potential, unless you were going for a natural attack build, and there are race and feat combinations that make that functional without evolutions. Chances are your evolutions support your current build, there isn't enough power in them that changing them mid combat would improve your chances. I do see where you guys are coming from but once you take out the 3rd and 4th level evolutions they fall in line with other races. If anything it's just the evolutions that should be approached directly, like for example skilled should be limited to a +2 bonus for the warped. Looking at the others the following caveat should be added,
The Warped lack some the greater abilities of an eidolon, the are restricted to evolutions of 1 and 2 point costs. In addition they are not allowed to take the following evolutions, Improved Damage,Improved Natural Armor, Energy Attacks, and immunity. In addition they may only receive a +2 benefit from the skilled evolution.
I am currently working on a better written nerfed version of evolving blood, taking raider's and osw's considerations in mind. Any other thoughts on this race?
Bolded parts are changes
Warped
Born from an unnatural union of humanoid and eidolon, the Warped are forever marked by their planar heritage.
Warped Racial Traits:
Type:Outsider(native)
Ability score modifiers
+2 con, +2 wis, -4 chr. The Warped strong of body and exceptionally aware, but they exude a powerful wrongness that other beings are sensitive to.
Aberrant Nature:Because the union that produce is violently against nature, the Warped are treated as Aberrations for the purposes of all effects.
Darkvision 60 feet.
[b]Mark:all Warped bear an eidolon's mark, functioning in all ways the same, revealing them as different
Evolving Blood: At 1st level all Warped receive 1 evolution point, for which they may spend on an Eidolon evolution as if they were an Eidolon with the biped base form, and their effective summoner level for such evolutions is equal to half their character level. The Warped lack some the greater abilities of an eidolon, the are restricted to evolutions of 1 and 2 point costs. In addition they are not allowed to take the following evolutions, Improved Damage,Improved Natural Armor, Energy Attacks, and Immunity. In addition they may only receive a +2 benefit from the skilled evolution. For every 5 character levels they possess they gain an additional evolution point to spend. Once per day the evolutions the Warped gains may be changed as a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity, the warped then gains the sickened condition for 1 hour.
I plan on creating feats to expand and improve on their ability to change evolutions, this is do to me not liking how versatile they are without some investment.
skills: The Warped receive a +2 bonus on intimidate and knowledge planes checks.
Repression: This functions as a Disguise Self spell-like ability, save that they can only disguise themselves in the form of what they look like with no visible evolutions. They can use this a number of times per day equal to their Constitution Modifier.
Resistant Form:The warped receive a +4 bonus on saves to resist being polymorphed against their will.
OK, you know what...I think I can finagle an alternate Racial trait that makes these guys mongrel folk descended instead. type changes to monstrous humanoid, their evolution pool doesn't increase, they lose repression and Resistant form, but they can choose 2 humanoid races, get treated as if it had their subtypes, and qualify as those 2 races for the purposes of effects. needs some work but I think it's viable.
Mongrel Blooded: Some warped derive their bloodlines not from eidolons but from the disfigured Mongrelfolk. Warped with this racial trait are the humanoid type instead of outsider. In addition they select 2 humanoid types, they count as those types for the purposes of effects. This replaces the outsider type, evolving blood, and repression.
So... is anybody still interested?
Well I'm still here, but I probably don't really count. ;p
I like the Mongrel-blooded version too. Serms less complicated thematically, but I don't see any real reason not to keep both.
You always count OSW ;). I was considering allowing mongrelblooded to retain a single Evo point, but I am on the fence.
Mind the extremely easy access to Flight.
Meh,these guys qualify at level10. Dont see an issue.
soo I have never done favored class options before, any suggestions on a few that fit these guys?
so here are a couple of feats from the top of my head.
Evolved Arcane Bond
Your ties to your familiar are great enough to transfer some of your altered state to them.
Prerequisites
Warped, Evolved Familiar, character level 5
Benefits
Once per day you may transfer up to half your evolution points to your familiar. Your Familiar may spend the evolution points on Evolutions, but must follow all the restrictions and modifications presented in the Evolved Blood racial feature. Returning Evolutions granted in such a way consumes a daily use of this class feature.
Improved Shift
You have mastered the method of changing your evolutions, being only limited by what your body can stand in a day.
Prerequisites
Evolved Blood Racial Ability, Constitution 15
Benefits
You may change your evolutions as a standard action a number of times per day equal to your Constitution modifier. This no longer provokes an attack of opportunity, and the sickened condition only lasts for one round.
and if you love race options like feats *cue self promotion* you will love the newest Racial Guide by Red goblin Games!!! In it features a myriad of new options including a bucketload of feats for some of the more neglected races of the ARG...I should be ashamed of myself.
I for one like the Idea.
Since an Eidolon can take any form its master wishes. Would not take long for some master to ask its Eidolon to look like Selma Hayak
I for one like the Idea.
Since an Eidolon can take any form its master wishes. Would not take long for some master to ask its Eidolon to look like Selma Hayak
yup, not too mention those unfettered eidolons wandering about looking like god knows what. Dont even get me started on cults for gods like Lamashtu.
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This race looks like it might be a good candidate for making Terra from FF6, if you take the mental boosting evolutions vs taking the physical ones.
How would you adjust the race to fit into making it more like that character?
that plus sorcerer (empyreal) is a good start, as for trance, try the following...
Unleashed PotentialYou've dug deep and now learned how to draw on reserves you didn't know you had.
Prerequisites
Evolved blood racial trait, Character level 7
Benefits
By expending one of your daily uses of your ability to change your personal evolutions, you may instead grant yourself a temporary number of evolution points equal to your Constitution Modifier. These points last for 2 rounds/level. Using this ability is a standard action.
Special
It is optional that using this ability changes the warped in questions physical appearance, for example having their hair turn blond and stick up while their eyes turn green.
That should help simulate Trance state.
I think for summoner favored class bonus, a + 1/4 to evolutions would be apropos. I am considering having their evolution limitations apply to evolutions gained from other sources (like the aspect class feature). I am also pondering a racial summoner archetype that's completely devoted to evolutions (gives up sla's and spellcasting).
This looks interesting, though I don't think you need to include Darkvision in the stat block, it's already granted by the Outsider type.
Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
Darkvision 60 feet.
Unlike most living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don't work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.
One thing I would like to know. If you ask your eidolon to take the shape of an elf Maiden on a cold winter Night, is that an Evil act?
And if a Eidolon plane touched becomes a summoner later on, can it summon a relative. Role playing a Summoner whose Eidolon is its Aunt Myrtle might be fun.
One thing I would like to know. If you ask your eidolon to take the shape of an elf Maiden on a cold winter Night, is that an Evil act?
And if a Eidolon plane touched becomes a summoner later on, can it summon a relative. Role playing a Summoner whose Eidolon is its Aunt Myrtle might be fun.
Once had a player run a tiefling summoner, raised by her pit fiend father. She was enamores with mortals, at least whay she thoufht mortal culture was. Ended up OKaying that her eidolon was a shard of her father's sentience. It was pretty cool.
@Alfray, I listed it because all outsider pcs do, I kinda wonder where these fall on the rp scale. I would estimate the Evolved blood at about 7 points.
One thing I would like to know. If you ask your eidolon to take the shape of an elf Maiden on a cold winter Night, is that an Evil act?
And if a Eidolon plane touched becomes a summoner later on, can it summon a relative. Role playing a Summoner whose Eidolon is its Aunt Myrtle might be fun.
If the eidolon simply wants ti fulfill its masters wishes, id hesitate to call it evil.
Dotting. Brilliant idea, toaster!
It's kind of ironic that the children of summoners make pretty weak summoners, with that charisma penalty. I really like the idea though!
It's kind of ironic that the children of summoners make pretty weak summoners, with that charisma penalty. I really like the idea though!
when i get done with their summoner archetype, they wont be ;).
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Love the concept!
This reminds me of the story Designer Babies. Parents could select qualities they wanted their children to have. I recall beauty (subjective I would suspect since beauty is in the eye if the beholder, and while many find the same featured attractive, variance does still exist) and high intelligence were on the menu though I don't think a family could choose one than inw trait, u would guess athleticism was another option.
Anyway, think about it. A Summoner could create an Eidolon with traits the parents want and that might increase the chance of those traits in the children. The Summoner ould even sculpt the facial features like the real parents to increase the olds they look like the parents and are unknown to be "designed".
So many plots can come out if this:
You could try to make controllable subjects to impersonate people you quietly assassinate.
Create a cheap specialized labor force.
Moral dilemmas about when an Eidolon/blooded is more than the property of the Summoer.
Breed an army of very versatile soldiers.
Outraged parents when they find out they are not the real father.
Genocide on the unnatural and the struggle to hide them from execution.
The taboo of marrying/breeding outside your culture.
Raymonds got it, the rp potential of this race is massive and near universal to any campaign setting which allows the summoner class or at least has unfettered eidolon enemies.
So a little insight into the summoner archetype I'm working on.
This summoner will lose sla's and possibly spell casting as well (or possibly gain behavioral study as a bonus feat instead)
Instead of making a pact with an otherworldly being, they manifest their inner eidolon, which will be an aberration type so it will fall between the fey and outsider eidolon in terms of power.
The archetype will heavily focus on the aspect class feature. Evolution points granted by it will not be deducted from the eidolon's evolution pool.
The warped will eventually lose some of the restrictions of the evolved blood racial trait.
So a little insight into the summoner archetype I'm working on.
This summoner will lose sla's and possibly spell casting as well (or possibly gain behavioral study as a bonus feat instead)
Instead of making a pact with an otherworldly being, they manifest their inner eidolon, which will be an aberration type so it will fall between the fey and outsider eidolon in terms of power.
The archetype will heavily focus on the aspect class feature. Evolution points granted by it will not be deducted from the eidolon's evolution pool.
The warped will eventually lose some of the restrictions of the evolved blood racial trait.
Instead of removing spellcasting and SLA's why don't you just remove the eidolon instead? So instead of summoning their inner eidolon, THEY evolve into their "inner eidolon".
This concept would make a cool bloodline.
Instead of removing spellcasting and SLA's why don't you just remove the eidolon instead? So instead of summoning their inner eidolon, THEY evolve into their "inner eidolon".So a little insight into the summoner archetype I'm working on.
This summoner will lose sla's and possibly spell casting as well (or possibly gain behavioral study as a bonus feat instead)
Instead of making a pact with an otherworldly being, they manifest their inner eidolon, which will be an aberration type so it will fall between the fey and outsider eidolon in terms of power.
The archetype will heavily focus on the aspect class feature. Evolution points granted by it will not be deducted from the eidolon's evolution pool.
The warped will eventually lose some of the restrictions of the evolved blood racial trait.
I wanted a little bit of both to make it stand out from the synthesist, also with a giant charisma penalty the sla's will suck, and without a feat the casting will too. Think of this archetype as this
stonelord is to paladin what Bloodborn is to summoners.
so I decided to keep spell casting and grant behavioral study as a bonus feat. I will grant the extra evolutions feat every odd level, and aspect will be dropped to level 1. Aspect will grant an additional +1 evolution every odd numbered level to a total of 11 at level 19, although evolutions gained in this way will follow the restrictions of evolved blood. The Aberrant Eidolon will have a -2 to all mental scores, but will have an additional +2 to natural armor and half their str/dex bonus applies to con. I am going to fill Aspects 10th level spot with with unlocked access and greater Aspects spot with greater unlocked access.
Unlocked Access: The Bloodborn Summoner removes some limitations from his own abilities. At 10th level, the Bloodborn Summoner no longer has restrictions on which 1 to 2 point evolutions they can take for themselves. In addition they now receive the full benefits for having skilled evolution.
Greater Unlocked Access: At 18th level, the Bloodborn Summoner may choose 3 and 4 point evolutions when choosing evolutions to apply to themselves.
wanted to iron some of these concepts out before I throw the whole thing together.