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In a way, the change really does make sense - SLAs aren't really spells, and I actually never would have thought of trying to qualify for those classes with an SLA if the FAQ entry didn't exist. Using SLAs to qualify for caster level prestige classes is one of the more unintuitive things I've seen in the game.
The main problem is how thoroughly this screws over prestige classes. What's the point of publishing all these books full of PrCs if they're all just going to be inferior options to what already exists? Half of many of the (quite expensive) books are practically worthless due to Paizo's apparent distaste for anything that remotely resembles wandering outside straight classing. If the problem with PrC balance was addressed, this would not be nearly the issue it is - THAT is the core problem, and people were just using the SLA thing as a method to fix it without needing Paizo's nonexistent help on the topic.
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For what it is worth I just want a consistent ruleset. I understand that this is a complex game, but I really hate being told that I can't do something while other people can. I would really prefer to go all or nothing. Either don't mess with the rules in this fashion, or make everyone retrain out/retire. I don't get why so many people are cool with the "not anymore" approach. It drives away new players, and it makes those of us who have been playing long enough to know about the exploits but new enough not to have explored them yet insane.
I also like consistency. But what do you think is more fair? Telling 100 Mystic Theurges to retire, or letting a hundred hours of investment continue?
Would your hope for consistency also nix race boons?
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The main problem is how thoroughly this screws over prestige classes. What's the point of publishing all these books full of PrCs if they're all just going to be inferior options to what already exists? Half of many of the (quite expensive) books are practically worthless due to Paizo's apparent distaste for anything that remotely resembles wandering outside straight classing. If the problem with PrC balance was addressed, this would not be nearly the issue it is - THAT is the core problem, and people were just using the SLA thing as a method to fix it without needing Paizo's nonexistent help on the topic.
I would absolutely love to play a prestige class, and have looked into several for the flavour. the odds of me playing anything past level 11 with it in PFS is slim however, and most of them just aren't that great until higher levels.
I have found archetypes fill that niche of "you wanna do this? okaaay..." that you're describing. I've made some truly bizarre character concepts just with single class archetypes.
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For what it is worth I just want a consistent ruleset. I understand that this is a complex game, but I really hate being told that I can't do something while other people can. I would really prefer to go all or nothing. Either don't mess with the rules in this fashion, or make everyone retrain out/retire. I don't get why so many people are cool with the "not anymore" approach. It drives away new players, and it makes those of us who have been playing long enough to know about the exploits but new enough not to have explored them yet insane.I also like consistency. But what do you think is more fair? Telling 100 Mystic Theurges to retire, or letting a hundred hours of investment continue?
Would your hope for consistency also nix race boons?
While you have presented two unpleasant options, I would easily tell 100 characters to retire rather than create second class players. This is not an ideal situation, obviously.
I like the idea of race boons. They are a reward for GMing enough games. I would really like it if there was a way to get them for regular PFS play in the stores. I don't really understand how they get handed out though, so I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer that part.
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In a way, the change really does make sense - SLAs aren't really spells, and I actually never would have thought of trying to qualify for those classes with an SLA if the FAQ entry didn't exist. Using SLAs to qualify for caster level prestige classes is one of the more unintuitive things I've seen in the game.
The main problem is how thoroughly this screws over prestige classes. What's the point of publishing all these books full of PrCs if they're all just going to be inferior options to what already exists? Half of many of the (quite expensive) books are practically worthless due to Paizo's apparent distaste for anything that remotely resembles wandering outside straight classing. If the problem with PrC balance was addressed, this would not be nearly the issue it is - THAT is the core problem, and people were just using the SLA thing as a method to fix it without needing Paizo's nonexistent help on the topic.
First, thanks for not taking my chiding over hyperbole as an excuse for flaming. Im glad you posted a reasonable response that I can use to continue a good discussion.
1) I unequivocally disagree that multiclassing is a weaker option. 90% of the characters that have derailed scenarios I've played or GMd, have been multiclass monstrosities.
1) my first character that has been extremely viable for 15 levels is a kick butt Rage Prophet.
2) there are not lots of prestige classes. It seems Paizo is actually trying to do away with the glut 3.5 became. Seems archetypes, alternate and advanced classes have been the replacement.
3) you can still realize your build. Just a few levels later. I've seen a mystic the urge usung the old rules be very effective in my Kingmaker campaign.
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I like the idea of race boons. They are a reward for GMing enough games. I would really like it if there was a way to get them for regular PFS play in the stores. I don't really understand how they get handed out though, so I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer that part.
they're typically a reward for volunteering at conventions. in the bast, there have been race boons for things like beginner box bash as well. they're special things, not just "GM x number of games at a store" unfortunately.
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I don't really understand how they get handed out though, so I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer that part.
That's an easy explanation at least.
If you are organizing a convention with at least 15 tables of PFS (Say a 1 day event, with 5 tables, each running 3 slots)
You can request convention support from Paizo.
Part of the convention support Paizo will provide generally includes the current GM-Boon which for the past ~4 years has been a race boon.
GMing at least 1 table at said event will earn you said boon.
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For what it is worth I just want a consistent ruleset. I understand that this is a complex game, but I really hate being told that I can't do something while other people can. I would really prefer to go all or nothing. Either don't mess with the rules in this fashion, or make everyone retrain out/retire. I don't get why so many people are cool with the "not anymore" approach. It drives away new players, and it makes those of us who have been playing long enough to know about the exploits but new enough not to have explored them yet insane.I also like consistency. But what do you think is more fair? Telling 100 Mystic Theurges to retire, or letting a hundred hours of investment continue?
Would your hope for consistency also nix race boons?
You left out the option of a full rebuild. Let's not pretend that the only choice was retirement or nothing.
Also, comparing race boons to early access is disingenuous. Access to a race doesn't give a character an advantage in advancement... unless of course that race provided one of the SLAs that this FAQ addressed. While certain races may get a stat bonus that is functionally more efficient in a particular class than another, no particular race accelerated or reduced the rate of advancement or access to class abilities (outside of the aforementioned SLA access to certain prestige classes, that is).
Developer
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A character who has a) relied on a spell-like ability to enter a prestige class in place of conventional spellcasting ability and b) earned at least one Chronicle sheet as a result of playing that character after taking a level in that prestige class gets to keep the character as is. We're not interested in performing a massive character rebuilding operation.
From another thread, it appears that there is some confusion over the meaning of the above point. The PC who meets the conditions above gets to keep and continue playing that character—including the process of continuing to gain levels in that prestige class. Saying "you get to keep the character as is" would be a rather backhanded and disingenuous way of allowing a PC to keep a prestige class option, especially for a mystic theurge. Do you already have the first level of a prestige class? Great, you should be allowed to take the second level, too.
The aim is simply to allow those who have invested in the character to the point that they have actually used the prestige class to finish out the character's career. As others have pointed out above, having to redesign a PC at level 9 (for example), after building the PC's personality and abilities over the course of many levels, is really jarring and tends to result in the PC just being abandoned. I'm not interested in ruining those players'/characters' day.
Rebuilding hurts those who are involved in their characters' story and have already gained a few levels, though it mollifies those who were not affected yet might feel there was an unfair advantage. Grandfathering hurts those who feel they missed the opportunity to take an option, but it mollifies those who had already invested a man resources (time, gold, etc.) into a concept and would otherwise abandon the concept rather than lose it.
Neither is perfect. Neither is completely hurt-free. What Mike and I can do is provide as fair of a ruling as possible—and often a blend of these two strategies—based on the circumstances of the rule change and what we feel is best for the campaign.
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John, it would seem that there is a grandfathering middle ground here that you guys haven't addressed. You currently say that the character has to have already earned XP as a Theurge, but you're still leaving a big hole of those building toward a Theurge who hadn't gotten there yet. How about a compromise - that you have to have played at least 1 game at 2nd level and start taking Theurge levels before X date. While it would block the Confirmation spamming behavior that was seen with the old races, it would also give people who have already invested in character concepts but just hadn't quite hit the bar that's currently been set the chance to move forward.
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to be completely honest I think the major issue with this is that these rules existed in the 1st place
yes I have one of these and so do others in my home games as well but when these rules came out every one of us said "not in my home game"
that said ... this late in the game I agree that John and Mikes decision was probably the best way to do this ... I think the only thing I would change would be to give characters through the weekend to get 1XP under that characters belt with the PRC in place as a "Nod" to GM's who have built these characters on GM Credit because we all know at least some people who GM so much that they don't get to play
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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*shrug* I've no PCs impacted by the ruling, but it makes sense.
As to the Tiefling/Aasimar thing...
"I'm just the guy who arranges the meeting between the Lady and the pentient." *casts deathknell on the guy he just dropped*
"What the hell was that for?"
"Service charge."
Though the idea of a pit spawn bard, who takes spell focus enchantment and specializes in those kind of spells, is funny. "I can't help it I'm good at making friends and seducing people... succubus blood."
Edit: I am sad that it closes the rogue/arcane strike trick. (minor magic/major magic, not racial SLAs) since they could use the damage bump and a pure rogue has little use for swift actions.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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*shrug* I've no PCs impacted by the ruling, but it makes sense.
As to the Tiefling/Aasimar thing...
** spoiler omitted **Though the idea of a pit spawn bard, who takes spell focus enchantment and specializes in those kind of spells, is funny. "I can't help it I'm good at making friends and seducing people... succubus blood."
Edit: I am sad that it closes the rogue/arcane strike trick. (minor magic/major magic, not racial SLAs) since they could use the damage bump and a pure rogue has little use for swift actions.
Essentially you have the benefit of two race boons each, and in some regions they are a bit hard to get, so you will always have the option to remake that character into something else, but new players lack that option.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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*shrug* I've no PCs impacted by the ruling, but it makes sense.
As to the Tiefling/Aasimar thing...
** spoiler omitted **Though the idea of a pit spawn bard, who takes spell focus enchantment and specializes in those kind of spells, is funny. "I can't help it I'm good at making friends and seducing people... succubus blood."
Edit: I am sad that it closes the rogue/arcane strike trick. (minor magic/major magic, not racial SLAs) since they could use the damage bump and a pure rogue has little use for swift actions.
Essentially you have the benefit of two race boons each, and in some regions they are a bit hard to get, so you will always have the option to remake that character into something else, but new players lack that option.
Sebastian, reply in spoiler, since it's kind of off topic.
I'm saying I never understood the furor about people 'stocking up' on the two races prior to the lockdown. 1) It was basic economic theory (reducing a supply makes people stock up against future demand) and 2) You can only play one character at a time. If one person has (say) 24 aasimars in 'storage' from the grace period, she's only going to have one aasimar at a time regardless.
I have a character idea that a kayal would be awesome for, but since I never got a fetchling boon, that idea remains stillborn. Same thing for the changeling slayer I thought up some time ago. That's life.
And this is coming from the guy who jokes "Yes, I'm playing Samiel, you've a shot at killing a legacy character." And jokingly cackles evily when a 'boon race' shows up with our local players when I'm GMing. (Up to and including taunting one of our VLs when I ran a scenario with his Undine.) The locals know I don't single out anyone for abuse, and I'm kidding. I'd not joke like that to a stranger.
Also one of my tieflings I got a race boon from our VC, about two weeks before the race opened up. I laughed at the timing.
Staying on topic, it's not 'unbalanced' to have legacy characters, anymore than it is for my one witch to have the slumber hex. Eventually all the legacy characters are going to level out, and the issue will be closed. If a player is unable to imagine a character without exploiting the SLA to make early entry over and over, it would be like if *every* hex capable character I ever made had the slumber hex. It shows a lack of creativity.*
Or like my blobs of credit, they're going to sit there, and not do anything.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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*shrug* I've no PCs impacted by the ruling, but it makes sense.
As to the Tiefling/Aasimar thing...
** spoiler omitted **Though the idea of a pit spawn bard, who takes spell focus enchantment and specializes in those kind of spells, is funny. "I can't help it I'm good at making friends and seducing people... succubus blood."
Edit: I am sad that it closes the rogue/arcane strike trick. (minor magic/major magic, not racial SLAs) since they could use the damage bump and a pure rogue has little use for swift actions.
Essentially you have the benefit of two race boons each, and in some regions they are a bit hard to get, so you will always have the option to remake that character into something else, but new players lack that option.
Sebastian, reply in spoiler, since it's kind of off topic.
** spoiler omitted **...
The problem is that tieflings and aasimar are very good, and with the number of variants can fit a wide variety of roles and builds.
That is the mechanical side, and it is quite substantial if you look at some of the more insane alternative favored class bonus choices.
The RP aspect is however hardly irrelevant. Playing a tiefling paladin or an aasimar slayer can be quite a fun experience for a certain kind of player.
It is true, that it doesn't really matter, whether someone has 5 or 25 aasimar in reserve, but the difference between 0 and two is quite substantial.
Well I said my piece, I currently have no concept, that actually requires one of those races, I am just a bit salty concerning the apparent rarity in some countries.
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"If you think it's a loophole, use it at your own risk, for it may close without warning"If you're trying to apply this to something explicitly spelled out in an official, binding FAQ, then you're not being reasonable.
There's a difference between reading two different rules in two different places and making a fuzzy connection in one's own mind, and reading an explicit FAQ that just flat-out says that something is legal.
EDIT: Or what Shisumo said.
It's way too late to edit my post, but I did want to say that, yes, that is something I hadn't considered when I made my original one, and I agree that Shisumo said it very well.
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A character who has a) relied on a spell-like ability to enter a prestige class in place of conventional spellcasting ability and b) earned at least one Chronicle sheet as a result of playing that character after taking a level in that prestige class gets to keep the character as is. We're not interested in performing a massive character rebuilding operation. From another thread, it appears that there is some confusion over the meaning of the above point. The PC who meets the conditions above gets to keep and continue playing that character—including the process of continuing to gain levels in that prestige class. Saying "you get to keep the character as is" would be a rather backhanded and disingenuous way of allowing a PC to keep a prestige class option, especially for a mystic theurge. Do you already have the first level of a prestige class? Great, you should be allowed to take the second level, too.
The aim is simply to allow those who have invested in the character to the point that they have actually used the prestige class to finish out the character's career. As others have pointed out above, having to redesign a PC at level 9 (for example), after building the PC's personality and abilities over the course of many levels, is really jarring and tends to result in the PC just being abandoned. I'm not interested in ruining those players'/characters' day.
John, how are characters that have taken feats using SLA's to cover the prereqs going to be handled? Will they be similarly grandfathered in?
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John, how are characters that have taken feats using SLA's to cover the prereqs going to be handled? Will they be similarly grandfathered in?
A character who has a non-class option for which he qualified using a spell-like ability in place of standard spellcasting ability must retrain those features and any features that rely on them as prerequisites (e.g. Arcane Strike and Bloodied Arcane Strike) at no cost.
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What about characters that have perfectly legal traits that were only taken so that they could get the now illegal feats Feats (Arcane strike).
Do characters have the option to rebuild and remove those traits as well?
Or does rebuild refer to allowing players to completely rebuild the characters from the ground up.
Also why was this done? It was FAQ'd in that you could and then a short while later taken out, it seemed a fun option to me that allowed access to a few flavourful abilities?
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I for one saw the previous FAQ entry inconsistent and unreasonable. It allowed characters with no real spellcasting abilities to enter prestige classes that granted spell casting progression. As a mental exercise imagine an aasimar fighter 1/eldritch knight 10. It would have been legal, but absolutely ridiculous and inconsistent.
After pondering this a bit, I must admit stating a certain date when this new FAQ clarification would come to power in PFS would have been fair. I do, however, understand the Pathfinder Society team's disdain for a sudden surge of grandfathering attempts, like when aasimars and tieflings were disallowed after the start of Season 6. Grandfathering early entry prestige class characters would have been much harder, though.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I for one saw the previous FAQ entry inconsistent and unreasonable. It allowed characters with no real spellcasting abilities to enter prestige classes that granted spell casting progression. As a mental exercise imagine an aasimar fighter 1/eldritch knight 10. It would have been legal, but absolutely ridiculous and inconsistent.
After pondering this a bit, I must admit stating a certain date when this new FAQ clarification would come to power in PFS would have been fair. I do, however, understand the Pathfinder Society team's disdain for a sudden surge of grandfathering attempts, like when aasimars and tieflings were disallowed after the start of Season 6. Grandfathering early entry prestige class characters would have been much harder, though.
While the above class really has been unreasonably bad without early access, that aasimar fighter would need a level in an existing arcane spellcasting class.
But yeah the old ruling was a band aid on the issue, and those classes have not been decent for quite some time.
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I would have preferred less wishy washyness myself... there is nothing straight up, about making an FAQ and stating how stuff can be done to then take that away for no real solid reason.
You may say that it's so that SLA can't be substituted for real casting which makes no sense.
I say the original ruling would have gone through all that and was made anyway, thus wishywashyness.
Customers are not here to be messed around with and especially not customers that had to devote hours of precious time into making characters using allowed concepts only to have that taken away.
Also customers that would have had to purchase books to get those abilities they wanted.
The more I think on it the lower my estimations of these actions get.
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After pondering this a bit, I must admit stating a certain date when this new FAQ clarification would come to power in PFS would have been fair. I do, however, understand the Pathfinder Society team's disdain for a sudden surge of grandfathering attempts, like when aasimars and tieflings were disallowed after the start of Season 6. Grandfathering early entry prestige class characters would have been much harder, though.
Does anyone know if the "grandfathering shenanigans" around aasimar and tiefling were all that prevalent, or were more of a messageboard phenomenon?
Locally, I was the only person who made a tiefling or aasimar between the announcement and the deadline, and I only made one -- a tiefling oracle I had already planned out before the announcement.
I've no doubt other places did have problems. I know the reputation is that that transition went "badly" -- I'm just curious if there are any numbers on that, because my actual experience is that the transition went smoothly and well.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Does anyone know if the "grandfathering shenanigans" around aasimar and tiefling were all that prevalent, or were more of a messageboard phenomenon?
I know of three cities in the upper midwest where dozens of players ran through "The Confirmation" or "First Steps 1" with an aasimar / tiefling. Nobody considered it cheating or shenanigans.
for the sake of perspective, loads of people played their Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge characters through the respective retirement scenarios before the season end / deadline, and nobody considered that to be shenanigans. Years ago, lots of people ran their PCs through the announced-to-be-retired Season 0 scenarios, before the deadline, and they weren't accused of cheating, either.
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While I would have been in favor of this interpretation from the start, reversing it now does make quite a mess. It may be thought of as a lack of foresight on behalf of the rules team, but everyone makes a not so good call once in a while.
As far as rebuild or grandfathering, neither option is really ideal, but I do think grandfathering is the better of the two in this case. I also believe a cut off date that applies to all played (has at least one chronicle sheet as a PC, not GM credit) characters would be a better system than the one John discussed up thread. This would allow those who have a bit less opportunity to play a chance to achieve what they were aiming for, while eliminating GM blob abuse.
My thoughts as a player and GM with one affected PC, who has to swap out Arcane Strike.
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John, it would seem that there is a grandfathering middle ground here that you guys haven't addressed. You currently say that the character has to have already earned XP as a Theurge, but you're still leaving a big hole of those building toward a Theurge who hadn't gotten there yet. How about a compromise - that you have to have played at least 1 game at 2nd level and start taking Theurge levels before X date. While it would block the Confirmation spamming behavior that was seen with the old races, it would also give people who have already invested in character concepts but just hadn't quite hit the bar that's currently been set the chance to move forward.
+1
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John, it would seem that there is a grandfathering middle ground here that you guys haven't addressed. You currently say that the character has to have already earned XP as a Theurge, but you're still leaving a big hole of those building toward a Theurge who hadn't gotten there yet. How about a compromise - that you have to have played at least 1 game at 2nd level and start taking Theurge levels before X date. While it would block the Confirmation spamming behavior that was seen with the old races, it would also give people who have already invested in character concepts but just hadn't quite hit the bar that's currently been set the chance to move forward.+1
The future date cutoff has already been addressed.
To those who want rebuids for incomplete concepts...
How are you going to define the specifics of the rebuild option? Keep in mind, you cannot limit the rebuild option to only Mystic Theurge, but all PrC's. Spell out the specifics for John/Mike to consider if you actually want a change in the ruling.
Keep in mind, you have to weigh this specific rebuild option against asking those characters to continue their journey under the current rules (the cleric2/wizard1 can still become Mystic Theurge @lvl7)
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I thought it was spelled out pretty well in Akari's post, but, here it goes...
"Any character that has 4 XP or more and has been played their character with that much XP by the time of this announcement has a chance to qualify. Any character using retraining rules disqualifies themselves from this ruling. They may utilize the old SLA rules to attempt to get a prestige class using them, and there is some deadline (maybe a month? Dunno here) that they have to reach the prestige class."
I'm not the best with coming up with phrasing and editing, though, so take it with a grain of salt. I would also be welcome to suggestions on how to refine it to present it.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Andrew, forgive my asking but, isn't that "every character who is at least 2nd level"?
So, let's say they had until, say, March 15th to get, um, 6 more XP under their belts and take a level in the early-entry prestige class.
What about the folks who find out about this on March 2nd? Or March 16th? What about the people who would find it hard to play 6 games in a month?
You can imagine your answers. I am imagining mine. ("I was able to play only 5 games before the deadline, but I could have played a 6th game, and gotten to play my early-access Eldritch Knight, if I'd have had another two days. Oh well.")
PFS operates on an honor system. My table GM doesn't double-check to make sure that my Chronicles are genuine.
But it's possible to stretch that too far, to make the honorable choice ("Oh well.") too expensive for a lot of players. I think that might be what you're recommending.
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Andrew, forgive my asking but, isn't that "every character who is at least 2nd level"?
So, let's say they had until, say, March 15th to get, um, 6 more XP under their belts and take a level in the early-entry prestige class.
What about the folks who find out about this on March 2nd? Or March 16th? What about the people who would find it hard to play 6 games in a month?
You can imagine your answers. I am imagining mine. ("I was able to play only 5 games before the deadline, but I could have played a 6th game, and gotten to play my early-access Eldritch Knight, if I'd have had another two days. Oh well.")
PFS operates on an honor system. My table GM doesn't double-check to make sure that my Chronicles are genuine.
But it's possible to stretch that too far, to make the honorable choice ("Oh well.") too expensive for a lot of players. I think that might be what you're recommending.
1. Yes, that would be every character who is at least 2nd level. That means anyone who is "set" on their character would qualify, and since in my phrase rebuilding rules excludes people, then anyone who wasn't already set on this path couldn't utilize it. Anyone before then can rebuild their character using level 1 rebuild rules. No room for abuse is the thing we're trying to achieve.
2. That's why I'm open to suggestions. :) Ultimately, it's not my decision, but I feel that there are reasonable deadlines for things. There's no way to please everyone, but what I'm trying to come up with is a reasonable compromise.
3. Just trying to help. :(
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How about just "If you'd gotten a character to 2nd level before the FAQ was released, you can continue to the prestige class."?
That's probably more reasonable than what I came up with. Thank you!
Add something to cover GM babies, so you can't now decide to use past GM credit to make a new character after the FAQ.
Such as..? I'm not the best with phrasing which is why I'm trying to crowd source it. :)
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I'm a player who's affected by it.
I would have an early entry Arcane Trickster (Standard Tiefling Rogue 2/Wizard 1/Snakebite Striker 1/Arcane Trickster X).
Due to reasons I didn't play it after getting the AT level, so no chronicle sheet with the AT level, however the character has been sitting at this level for nearly 4 months now.
Just because I haven't played with her in the meantime I'm now forced to either take 2 more levels in wizard and getting into arcane trickster at level 7, or retrain 1 rogue level to wizard and take an extra level in wizard to get into AT at level 6 instead of 5.
I had a load of fun with the character trying to get to the trickster level, but due to a session which left a serious bad aftertaste I had parked her and with emerald spire and thornkeep sessions I never got around to get back into it with her. Now I'm just going to mark her as retired I guess.
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@thejeff
that means nearly any second level character can continue under the now illegal options...
2nd level cleric can go to a mystic theurge in the future...
2nd level fighter to a eldritch knight...
Far too vague and grandfathers basically every second level+ character as if paizo didn't change the rules
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The main problem is how thoroughly this screws over prestige classes. What's the point of publishing all these books full of PrCs if they're all just going to be inferior options to what already exists? Half of many of the (quite expensive) books are practically worthless due to Paizo's apparent distaste for anything that remotely resembles wandering outside straight classing. If the problem with PrC balance was addressed, this would not be nearly the issue it is - THAT is the core problem, and people were just using the SLA thing as a method to fix it without needing Paizo's nonexistent help on the topic.I would absolutely love to play a prestige class, and have looked into several for the flavour. the odds of me playing anything past level 11 with it in PFS is slim however, and most of them just aren't that great until higher levels.
I have found archetypes fill that niche of "you wanna do this? okaaay..." that you're describing. I've made some truly bizarre character concepts just with single class archetypes.
I have a character that has levels in two prestige classes. He is a Aldori Swordlord archetype fighter 7/ Aldori Swordlord PrC 1/ Duelist PrC 4. This character is the most fun I have ever had in PFS, even in the so called bad levels where my 10 str was totes rocking the damage of d8 +0. This character is awesome because of the prestige classes. I have a ungodly high AC (it starts at 36 and increases based on my actions), I do decent damage with a +1 keen sword used in one hand (d8 +16) and because I don't use Power Attack, I hit just about every roll.
He is more fun to play at higher levels, sure, but which classes aren't? If you approach every PC as a matter of keeping up with the Joneses, then really you should just play the Orc Bloodline Sorcerer/ Evoker Wizard combo and nothing else.
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@thejeff
that means nearly any second level character can continue under the now illegal options...
2nd level cleric can go to a mystic theurge in the future...
2nd level fighter to a eldritch knight...Far too vague and grandfathers basically every second level+ character as if paizo didn't change the rules
How many clerics put points into Int or Cha to focus on an arcane class? True, clerics often have charisma, but for the ones that would go sorcerer (Or another charisma casting class, or even Empyreal bloodline sorcerer), did they choose the right domains/race to even have the SLA to qualify early? If they didn't plan on going theurge, chances are that unless they rebuild, they won't be able to qualify early anyway.
How many fighters who were not planning on going eldritch knight put a lot of points into the appropriate mental stat? Or even have the correct SLA to qualify? I guess they could go scryer wizard, but even so, did they put points into intelligence? If it wasn't part of their plan to begin with, would they do it anyway?
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Does anyone know if the "grandfathering shenanigans" around aasimar and tiefling were all that prevalent, or were more of a messageboard phenomenon?
I know of three cities in the upper midwest where dozens of players ran through "The Confirmation" or "First Steps 1" with an aasimar / tiefling. Nobody considered it cheating or shenanigans.
for the sake of perspective, loads of people played their Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge characters through the respective retirement scenarios before the season end / deadline, and nobody considered that to be shenanigans. Years ago, lots of people ran their PCs through the announced-to-be-retired Season 0 scenarios, before the deadline, and they weren't accused of cheating, either.
There were also multiple, 28 minute runs of Master of the Fallen Fortress (up to 8 a day).