Ranged attacks and coverShooting into melee? That's-4
Ally in the way? Now your at -8.Determining who has cover relative to you is often overlooked by both players and GM's.
Nothing simplifies combat for an Archer more than letting him full attack round after round without taking cover into account.
Most Archers by Second Level will have Precise Shot
Note that water isn't really a problem in the desert if anyone has create water (which really should have been a first level spell, not a infinitely spammable cantrip). Endure elements likewise fixes many of the environmental problems. Though you can still do a challenging encounter in the desert, you just have to use other tools (sand, wind, interesting rock formations for cover...)
Most Archers by Second Level will have Precise Shot
Ranged attacks and coverShooting into melee? That's-4
Ally in the way? Now your at -8.Determining who has cover relative to you is often overlooked by both players and GM's.
Nothing simplifies combat for an Archer more than letting him full attack round after round without taking cover into account.
They still get the cover bonus for ally in the way, you have to have improved precise shot for that. You have to have BAB +11 or higher to take the improved version.
Reminds me of a PFS scenario I was running one time. A wizard in first steps part one actually tried to use his ray against a prone in combat enemy through the cover of his own allies. That is a full -12 to hit. He rolled a 19 to hit, started rolling damage. I asked him to tell me the total including his BAB and dex bonus... Needless to say a 20-12=8 still didn't hit. He felt he was robbed cause I enforced the rules on ranged combat. I just told him that if he doesn't like the penalties to perhaps target easier targets or move his character to a better angle.
I'm trying to clean up the guide a little bit by making sections start on their own separate pages and no longer run on to previous pages. In order to accomplish this, I'm slowly adding some artwork (with links to their original source, of course ;-). )
So far I've done this for the following pages:
--Deploying the Linear Guild
--Practice What we Preach — The Haunting of Harrowstone
Let me know if the artwork is distracting or not, or if it makes it a little bit easier to read through.
Oh yeah, I wrote a section on applying the lessons of the Guide to the Haunting of Harrowstone. In it, I show you how to beef up the Splatter Man encounter into a more challenging boss encounter. (Hint: He can be tough out of the book for some parties.)
Note that water isn't really a problem in the desert if anyone has create water (which really should have been a first level spell, not a infinitely spammable cantrip). Endure elements likewise fixes many of the environmental problems. Though you can still do a challenging encounter in the desert, you just have to use other tools (sand, wind, interesting rock formations for cover...)
Indeed. I'm cleaning up my Terrain and Weather section, and that's one of the things I note. If you're going to try to use water against your foes, use it as a psychological weapon against the players. Its too easy for PCs to actually get water. You'll never dehydrate them.
On the other hand, Deserts of all types are the bane of low Reflex save, low Acrobatics check characters everywhere.
"Failed to mention" isn't really a personal attack. I don't arbitrarily go on forums to rustle jimmies, that's just poor form and I'm sorry if I came off like that.
As for referencing tucker's kobolds, I'll admit that they were a pretty punishing encounter, but I imagine that tucker's kobolds were... I don't know, like, a beehive.
Yeah, that's it. A beehive. You wade into a room and everything is systematically made to pinprick you, like running through a bladestorm with a poor reflex save.
One of my all time favorite encounters was one where the PCs walked into a rather wide, circular room at the end of a long gauntlet of traps, and elemental mayhem. They could have just as easily went elsewhere and got straight to the point, but the price for the artifact at the end of this thing was something they just couldn't pass up.
Spoiler alert: The Wizard BBEG foresaw this, as he had already learned of them taking down one of his prior arrangements, and being a wizard, scryed on them, and rigged the end of his gauntlet. It was a lich with a thing for Evocation.
Long story short, they walk in, pick up this big fake piece of glass with some colorful bits in it, and set off the king of all magical traps, which the rogue made a point to mention was most definitely a magical trap. The Disable DC was massive, but the perception to notice it was low, and there wasn't any conceivable way to disable it, as it required 4 rather high checks.
he gave it a shot, but he only undid 2 of them. He picks up the glass, An earth elemental falls out of the ceiling to their right, and a Fire elemental pops out of the second ring of the room filled with fire. The Water and Air elemental were absent because their summons didn't go off.
Cue the "You will die here, blah blah commands it"
At the top of the room was a big ol' pendulum, magical in it's own right, that when it swang to the left apex, cast haste on the room on anything that wasn't an elemental, which is nice, but then it got to the second side, and it cast slow. Chock this up with the fact that the "Gears" of the room were rotating at 15 feet per seconds requiring acrobatics checks every round just to make things worse.
After that encounter I made a big ol' clocktower dungeons just to mimic it, even incorporating random timestops for people, lategame of course.
I guess my idea of "True Tucker's Kobolds" is the idea that the situation is just very well made, where everything is being played as intelligently as their intelligence scores should be.
An example would be Liches, with like, 39 intelligence. No one should catch something like that with it's pants down. He should have contingencies for his contingencies, spells for certain players ready. It's not being cruel to the players, so much as it's being punishing for them being ignorant.
In regular RPGs, players are allowed to expect railroading, but in the world of pathfinder, it's real-time for everyone. Players will die if they neglect things, and if anyone complains about it, they knew the risk. It's a game I love, because heros can die, and sometimes it's not even heroically! Sometimes you just fail some con saves after tripping into a river and getting tanglefooted to the ground to where you have to hold your breath in a creek.
Atleast, if you play a fighter, you can die the regular way. Wizards can end up in entirely other plains turned inside out if they're not careful, haha.
Still, I enjoy what you're doing.
Dot.
Most Archers by Second Level will have Precise Shot
Ranged attacks and coverShooting into melee? That's-4
Ally in the way? Now your at -8.Determining who has cover relative to you is often overlooked by both players and GM's.
Nothing simplifies combat for an Archer more than letting him full attack round after round without taking cover into account.
They still get the cover bonus for ally in the way, you have to have improved precise shot for that. You have to have BAB +11 or higher to take the improved version.
Reminds me of a PFS scenario I was running one time. A wizard in first steps part one actually tried to use his ray against a prone in combat enemy through the cover of his own allies. That is a full -12 to hit. He rolled a 19 to hit, started rolling damage. I asked him to tell me the total including his BAB and dex bonus... Needless to say a 20-12=8 still didn't hit. He felt he was robbed cause I enforced the rules on ranged combat. I just told him that if he doesn't like the penalties to perhaps target easier targets or move his character to a better angle.
Where is that I was looking of the PFSRD today and couldnt find it
Ohh I really appreciated your Work! A GM book from Paizo with material like this is what I would buy without any doubt. I'm playing ROTR, my players are on thirt book right now and I have found it too easy... I'll use some of your suggestions to make their encounters less trivial. I already knew a lot of the things inside your guide and I also used a similar XP based approach to define PC's antagonists but I lacked something I hope I'll be able to fill thanks to your effort.
I think to have found a pair of typos on the text, being Italian I'm not sure about it.
"Each adventure will typically have nine spaces adjacent to it" - - - shouldn't it be "adventurer"? And however aren't eight the spaces?
Somewhere I found "weighing" shouldn't it be "weighting"?
I really appreciated the example on Carrion Crown and then I'm planning to do something similar with the complete ROTR AP. I know it will be a very hard and long work however I'm not new to such tasks but I need a team to be sure to do something good enough to be useful for the wonderful Paizo community. Anyone would like to help me with this project?
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Good guide - my 10p worth:
I use terrain a LOT in encounters, especially climbing (baddie on raised elevation), occasionally swimming (a hag on a crannog for example) and difficult terrain that slows movement - essentially this is relevant to your guide for three reasons:
1. The party and the baddies are only as strong as the force they can bring to bear in an encounter (and hence may be 'sub-optimal' in terms of action economy in an encounter). Baddies can prepare for the pcs - in effect this can add to their action economy by giving them a 'bank' of relevant actions already taken.
2. Related to the above point - pc's movement characteristics are often not the same, some fly, some sink/swim, some can move faster than others, some climb better, etc. The greater the distances involved in the encounter and the more varied the movement challenges the more likely it is that the pcs will be unable to immediately bring their full force (and thence action economy) to bear. Also the more resources movement takes up (time, spells, etc.) the less there is available for combat.
3. A well designed environment can force the pcs to radically change their tactics, e.g. the pcs are fighting in a series of 5' tunnels which inter-branch the pcs can only attack and be attacked from two directions (front and rear) this dictates the maximised action economy of the party (e.g. missile fire will suffer from cover and thence be a less effective option than usual) and also some of the resources the party have to use to be effective (e.g. having to cast light spells, limitations on spells like 'enlarge', etc.)
+1
I have a GM that I wish would do this more often. Terrain is a major factor in designing a good challenging encounter.
I also wish combat maneuvers other than trip and grapple were used by DM's. I don't think I have ever been sundered, overrun, or disarmed in the last 3 years. Why do these (and the other more obscure combat maneuvers) not get used? I know I get them into my encounters on occasion.
Very good compilation so far :)
Magnificent! Dotting.
Where is that I was looking of the PFSRD today and couldnt find it
What? The soft cover rules? Here, in the Combat chapter. Note it's not actually a -4 penalty to the shot but a +4 bonus to the target's AC. The net effect of shooting-into-melee-with-soft-cover is an 8 point difference. Precise Shot takes away the penalty to the shot; Improved Precise Shot lets you ignore the soft cover bonus to AC.
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First, I very much like what you guys are doing with this!
Second, I don't want to sound like a 'Negative Nelly' but I have a concern about how much people just rely on the PC's to have X because it is just a level 0 or 1 spell.
When it was just writing for the core rule book things were a bit different, but now there are so many possibilites that just assuming the PC's will have made X choice is becoming unreasonable.
Some of the modules actually say things like 'This should not be much of a problem since the PC's can just use create water, endure elements, levitate, etc... to solve the problem.'
Everyone had the strength to carry several water skins (no create water). Taking place during the spring in a temperate large farming community (no endure elements). Been 90% social interaction in a small village (no levitate).
But many builds won't have those and the AP up until then did not foreshadow any need for the capability.
So some of the encounters/events that even the module expected to be pretty easy were actually horrifically difficult.
Now if you are upping the difficulty of an encounter for your specific group, you can make sure you didn't make things impossible for them since you know their capabilities. Not saying an intelligent bad guy won't plan things like that for them.
But be careful of just saying a desert is no problem because of endure elements and create water. Then teleporting the party containing only spontaneous casters (without those learned) from their home town to Arakis.
Okay, question about the Splatter Man. You used him as an example of a boss that needs to be beefed up a bit, and I like the flavor of your ideas. That said, when HoH first came out, a lot of people looked at the Splatter Man and said, holy crap, overpowered boss and potential TPK.
Why? Because he's insubstantial, has 62 hp, and can crank out a crazy amount of magic missile damage -- enough to drop the party cleric in two rounds, or 3 at most. If played intelligently (and he has 21 Int, so he should be played intelligently) he should be able to seriously maim or kill a group of four 3rd level characters.
I don't know if TSM proved to be that bad in the actual running of Carrion Crown. It's been a couple of years, so there should be a pretty good body of evidence now... does anyone know?
I think I mentioned this in the section, I picked the Splatter Man for two reasons, in this order:
1) I needed to pick an encounter from a well-known Adventure Path that I actually own so I could reference it. I only own parts 1 and 2 of Carrion Crown, so my choices were limited.
2) The Splatter Man is the hghest CR foe in the book, so he felt like the best choice to show how to upgrade an encounter.
Its an example, you don't have to upgrade him if you don't want to. :)
I agree with that, Kydeem. I note at the start of my terrain section that most terrain is easily overcome if your players are prepared for it. There are ways to circumvent nearly any type of terrain that you can possibly imagine, if your PCs have the insight to prepare for it. Most, actually, don't. Until they get a GM who drives those penalties home. Then they remember. :)
I love what you did with the Splatterman, now my question how do you add EXP for a 5th or 6th player?
That is what I was thinking Sweet that is perfect, makes total sense
Found a typo:
“The moment your blood touches the air, it quivers. The Splatter Man grins as your red ichor enters his area of influence and your blood animals into hundreds of small, amorphous blobs that swarm the room, attempting to siphon even more of your blood from your withering veins.”
Probably meant to say "animates"?
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I don't know if TSM proved to be that bad in the actual running of Carrion Crown. It's been a couple of years, so there should be a pretty good body of evidence now... does anyone know?
He could spend a few rounds at the bottom of his flooded oubliette summoning cannon fodder before emerging to hover above his fiendish octopuses (or whatever), blasting the heroes apart with maximized magic missiles focused on single characters. He could make use of his ghostly touch attack for 6d6 damage.
Instead, he spreads out his magic missile damage, attempts to summon monsters while in combat, and avoids melee.
The author of this encounter design guide suggests adding monsters to the Splatterman encounter after reducing the Splatterman’s CR rating by giving him the Young template, resulting in an encounter of the same CR. I don’t think he’s thought that suggestion through very carefully.
The Young template (Decrease size by one category; Reduce natural armor by –2 (minimum +0); Decrease damage dice by 1 step; Ability Scores –4 Strength, –4 Con, +4 size bonus to Dex.) would actually boost the power of the Splatterman. Str and Con are irrelevant to him, and he has no natural armor. Decreasing his damage dice would make a difference if he didn’t avoid melee, but 6d4 is still going to hurt whatever characters are left standing after he empties all his spells. But the +4 to Dex makes him significantly harder to hit with whatever magic weapons the players have scraped together, makes it less likely they’ll catch him flatfooted in the first round, boosts his saves versus dangerous spells and effects, and makes his touch attack more accurate.
Boosting the difficulty of that encounter is simple: let the Splatterman cast his summons before he emerges from the pit. That increases his action efficiency for the fight, and requires absolutely no rebuilding on the GM’s behalf.
A better Harrowstone encounter to redesign along the lines this guide’s author proposes would be the Lopper, who would be fantastically creepy with the Young template, as a child so Lizzie-Borden mad and evil that she is sent to the Oubliette for life. The sanguine theme could be kept, as the Lopper has bleed-related powers. You’d probably want to make the newly young Lopper a variant advanced wight rather than a variant wraith, however, so that she has a strength score and natural armor for the template to affect.
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I could have definitely used the splatter man encounter in my game. As it was he incredibly easy for my party.
I got off one high power MM that downed a PC for a round but the rogue carried a wand of shield and readied an action to cast it once he was targeted by MM. Then he made a bluff check to taunt him into using a full broadside on him instead of anyone else and made the UMD check.
The Splatterman’s Spellcraft is +16, meaning he automatically identifies Shield being cast. Admittedly, he’s not great at tactics, but having him waste his Magic Missiles on a target he knows to be immune is a very odd decision.
Letting your Rogue use Bluff as a more powerful version (using only a swift, move or free action, since he readied an action in the same round) of the oft-banned Antagonize feat without spending a feat is another odd decision, and having him best the Splatterman’s +13 Sense Motive is a fantastic stroke of luck on his part.
Maybe it’s less the encounter design being easy, and more you being generous to your players. Not that there’s nothing wrong with being generous, but it makes little sense to be generous and then turn around and complain that an encounter wasn’t hard enough.
I do salute your party for being loot-coordinated enough to liquidate sufficient treasure that the rogue could buy a 750 gp wand from Alendru before the end of the adventure.
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Well they are pretty hard core party...
...they did research on the splatter man and found out about his love of magic missile. The rogue did get lucky with very high bluff (also very high skill mod). I let him do it as move action because he role played it perfectly. I always let PCs try that social stuff but they know that I do not feel a need to have the NPC take certain action. As to the spell craft I felt the SM was committed before shield was cast.
Knowing what spells the Splatterman’s ghost had memorized is not something the adventure path normally allows. Magic Missile is among the spells in his spellbook, which they could find, but there’s no reason for players to suppose he has that in his 4th-level slots rather than, say, Summon Monster IV. You generously allowed them to figure it out, and that’s fine.
You were generous in several ways, and that’s fine. But to be that generous and then say you wish you had made the encounter harder is at cross-purposes.
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Just finished reading your guide and I have to say I am very impressed. It's clear you have a strong grasp on the math behind the system and you do a fantastic job of explaining it to the reader. Great work and definitely worth the read.
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In your guide, you say adventurers typically have 9 squares adjacent. Shouldn't that be 8 at most? (In my experience, it is more like 4-6 unless they are on a wide open plane. Remember, PCs are going to be looking for positions that prevent them from being flanked.
Also, I think your CR 4 minions in that Dragon encounter for the CR 11 Dragon have too high a level disparity with the party. Beyond a certain level difference, more monsters just make the encounter take longer but make it no harder. And the closer the area the encounter occurs in, the more likely that the low level minions will just get killed en masse with area attacks and cleaves and etc. You have to remember to take into account things that multiply the action economy by hitting multiple targets.
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I just feel that this tends to wind up driving the "Initiative Race" where the overwhelming tactic is "get init, get to the boss, kill the boss in one round. Then worry about the minions, because they are a non threat.
I would like to see more encounters focused on even spreads of multiple bad guys, with a maximum of 4 CR between the NPCs in any given encounter. And there is no reason that the one giving the orders is necessarily the one with the highest CR.
Otherwise the solution becomes simply spend the first turn killing the dangerous enemy. And between precise shot, bombs (which can hit the main NPC and take out his minions in the process) Acrobatics, summoning, and all the other means PC's have, it just isn't effective to flood spaces with minis and try to control PCs that way.
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You can have cool boss encounters, but you just can't build them via the normal rules.
When I make a boss, I cheat, I lower their damage a little and increase their HP by a ridiculous amount. I don't just add Toughness, I triple or quadruple their HP outright.
The CR system was good because it actually told you how to make monsters for the game. In 1st or 2nd ed, it was basically guesswork. You had lots of examples, but they didn't really detail any sort of system of how they did it. The problem with the CR system though is that it also constricts what you can do and one of the things it doesn't do well is the solo-boss.
Just experiment with breaking the rules. Start with a CR +1 monster, up it's HP by a lot and see how it changes the dynamics of the fight.
Don't by shy about adding "forms" to the boss either. Sure they got it "down" early in round 2... but then it gets back up and starts flying. Of course the forms have to make sense to the campaign, encounter and opponent, but a dark cleric who transforms into a demon when killed, or gets back up as an undead isn't out of the question.
I tend to give monsters either maximum, average or minimum HP depending on what the encounter represents, and even though the CR is the same it can make a huge difference especially if I make sure to describe them appropriately.
I also love using the suggestion for large groupings and level breakdowns, like with broods/clutches of troglodytes or kobolds. I'll actually through patrols/simple traps, then larger/more seasoned patrols, then more complex traps and younger warriors just at the beginning of training then the party finds the entire Broods, with young, families, shaman, the corpses they killed being ritually buried, etc.
I've run whole campaigns where the first 4 levels are getting past/through the den/home of a large brood/colony, only to find that, while Lawful Evil, they were actually protecting the world from a greater evil escaping (...and eating anyone that came too close)..numbers can really make things feel epic.
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A bit off topic but reading your section on forest terrain here is a quick tip for creating a random forested area. If you use battle maps you can simple take a handful of dice and drop them on the map.
In your guide, you say adventurers typically have 9 squares adjacent. Shouldn't that be 8 at most? (In my experience, it is more like 4-6 unless they are on a wide open plane. Remember, PCs are going to be looking for positions that prevent them from being flanked.
You're right, it should be eight. But to discount 3 squares because the PCs are up against a wall is a mistake. If you anticipate their tactics, you can pretty much take them out of the combat doing so that.
PC: *backs up to a stone wall*
ENEMY CLERIC: *casts stone shape and melds said PC to the wall*
Needless to say, my players never get too close to walls when spellcasters are afoot anymore.
Also, I think your CR 4 minions in that Dragon encounter for the CR 11 Dragon have too high a level disparity with the party. Beyond a certain level difference, more monsters just make the encounter take longer but make it no harder. And the closer the area the encounter occurs in, the more likely that the low level minions will just get killed en masse with area attacks and cleaves and etc. You have to remember to take into account things that multiply the action economy by hitting multiple targets.
Have you ever tried an encounter like this? Dragons are never "one-and-done" encounters. They're usually end bosses found after a long hall of a dungeon. Having an encounter like that, where the players are drained but the minions easily dispatched in more mundane ways actually tricks your players into taking horrible tactics. Namely, sending your rogues and rangers and similar martial types out into the field to go frogslaying. The disparity is intentional. You want the boggards to die, because every round a boggard dies is another round the PCs don't do something useful, like killing the dragon while its recharging its breath attack.
Never underestimate the power of a horde of mooks at the end of a long adventure. GMing Advice 101.
The point is that they clog up the players, FLite. Unless your area attacks are selective, you're going to be hitting buddies with them as well. Even though the mass swarm doesn't cause a lot of damage, they break up charge lines, block movement, eat up AoOs, etc.
Every resource you take to down one, or even five or six, of them is one that isn't available for the other threats.
You got it!
Just to pile on,
I've found that even at high levels, level 2-3 mooks can be absolutely distracting to the party.
I had one scenario taking place on a large field of wheat. The PCs set off a trap early, which was fine. The big bad and his two cohorts stood up from behind thatched blinds, and charged the group. Also at the same time, 20 level 1 warrior archers (CR 1/2) stood up and started firing at the group from 50 to 100 ft away (in a big arch around the planned ambush site). Some were within the 60 ft their bows had, some in the next range increment. But it didn't matter because they all hit only on a 20. So every round, I rolled 20d20 and just picked out the 20's, then rolled for confirmations on potential crits. The PCs actually split int 3 groups and almost got TPK'd because they panic'd and split their forces against the mooks and the big bads. The mooks were doing 1d6 when they did hit, nothing spectacular, but they were a lot and the idea of being sniped had the players (and their characters) on edge. I believe the encounter ended up being a CR+3 or +4, but due to bad tactical decisions, they barely survived.
I just feel that this tends to wind up driving the "Initiative Race" where the overwhelming tactic is "get init, get to the boss, kill the boss in one round. Then worry about the minions, because they are a non threat.
So your players blow all of their resources on the dragon, kill it in one round (surprisingly unlikely, but I'll role with it), and now have nearly no big attack spells left over for dealing with the horde of enemies at their backs.
They get swarmed. Wizard and Rogue go down easy. If you're lucky, maybe the party cleric has some healing left over, but even if they do kill the hoard of boggards the cost was pricely; 10,000 gp to bring their comrades back to life via resurrection magic. They might not even get that if the cleric goes down. Death might only be an inconvenience in Pathfinder, but an inconvenience of the wallet is always going to be the one that hurts players the most.
Otherwise the solution becomes simply spend the first turn killing the dangerous enemy. And between precise shot, bombs (which can hit the main NPC and take out his minions in the process) Acrobatics, summoning, and all the other means PC's have, it just isn't effective to flood spaces with minis and try to control PCs that way.
You're listing a LOT of specialized tactics in this list that it is dangerous to assume that the PCs have. When encounter building, it is dangerous to assume that they'll have ANYTHING, actually. And your entire assumption seems to be that your players will have access to a bomb-focused alchemist. That's not a particularly wise assumption to make, honestly. Regardless, here are some ways to thwart over a character like that.
1) Don't put the mooks near the boss to start. Even a focused alchemist isn't likely to kill more than the direct hit target with a bomb, the others will likely be weakened, but hardly dead (they have 14 hp each, so assume an APL 10 party (CR –4) your alchemist has 5d6 bombs for a safe guestimate of 8 to 9 damage of splash damage. That's assuming that none succeed on their Reflex save either. By putting the mooks in different spots, you either set up the combat so 9 or 8 mooks WILL die turn one, or you throw that bomb at the boss and waste its AoE potential. Which do you choose? If you choose the boss, then #2 will happen. If you choose the mooks, your boss is as fresh as a daisy.
2) Swarm the ranged guy. Bombs might be supernatural abilities, but using a ranged weapon still provokes an attack of opportunity. If the boggards swarm your alchemist friend, each of them will get an attack of opportunity against you. And what if they don't even bother using those attacks to damage you? What if they trip you? Or grapple you? Or use dirty tricks? Your alchemist's CMD isn't going to be that good, but one of those conditions will set you up for a catastrophic death when the dragon comes rolling around. I can practically hear him saying, "+4 on my attack rolls to hit this prone alchemist? Dude, heck yes!"
Also, grappling is perhaps the most effective way in the game to deal with spellcasters. If one mook gets a hold of you, it doesn't matter how many HD it has, your "God Wizard" is not getting spells off.
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In your guide, you say adventurers typically have 9 squares adjacent. Shouldn't that be 8 at most? (In my experience, it is more like 4-6 unless they are on a wide open plane. Remember, PCs are going to be looking for positions that prevent them from being flanked.You're right, it should be eight. But to discount 3 squares because the PCs are up against a wall is a mistake. If you anticipate their tactics, you can pretty much take them out of the combat doing so that.
PC: *backs up to a stone wall*
ENEMY CLERIC: *casts stone shape and melds said PC to the wall*Needless to say, my players never get too close to walls when spellcasters are afoot anymore.
Except that then why not just stoneshape the ground under their feat. And there is a difference between "I lean against the wall" and "I stand about a foot or two away from the wall so I can't get attacked from behind.
(By the way I think you are misreading stone shape. It lets you mold the stone like putty, while you are holding it. It doesn't animate the stone and have it reach out and grab people. Remember, it is range touch.)
Also, I think your CR 4 minions in that Dragon encounter for the CR 11 Dragon have too high a level disparity with the party. Beyond a certain level difference, more monsters just make the encounter take longer but make it no harder. And the closer the area the encounter occurs in, the more likely that the low level minions will just get killed en masse with area attacks and cleaves and etc. You have to remember to take into account things that multiply the action economy by hitting multiple targets.Have you ever tried an encounter like this? Dragons are never "one-and-done" encounters. They're usually end bosses found after a long hall of a dungeon. Having an encounter like that, where the players are drained but the minions easily dispatched in more mundane ways actually tricks your players into taking horrible tactics. Namely, sending your rogues and rangers and similar martial types out into the field to go frogslaying. The disparity is intentional. You want the boggards to die, because every round a boggard dies is another round the PCs don't do something useful, like killing the dragon while its recharging its breath attack.
Never underestimate the power of a horde of mooks at the end of a long adventure. GMing Advice 101.
30 years of gaming and GMing. Yes, I have run encounters like this. I also have gamed with people who have been doing it for 40 years or more. They *don't* go crazy with sending their martials frogslaying. They keep them under the cover of their archers, they pull back into choakpoints and make the frogs come to them. Especially at the end of a long and draining scenario. They don't let themselves get isolated, or surrounded, and they are careful to keep their lines of retreat open. And the moment the dragon puts in an appearance, they drop the frogies and don't waste any time on them. Nobody I have ever gamed with, faced with a dragon, does *anything* other than neutralize the dragon. The exception is that spellcasters, having determined that they can't hurt the dragon, may clear a path for the fighters.
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I believe the encounter ended up being a CR+3 or +4, but due to bad tactical decisions, they barely survived.
For me this is what it comes down to. mdt, in that example, your 20 archers were doing on average a total of ~1d6 a round? Against what level? At level 8 (the same 7 level difference we were talking about before) if they concentrate all their fire on the wizard, it will take 8 rounds to knock him unconscious. Big arch? oh good, I move to one end, now all to others have to fire through each other to hit me.
Sorry, I'm just not seeing this as being effective. (Well except on a bad night, like the night where one of the players decided to make a wand of wonder her only weapon for the night.)
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You're listing a LOT of specialized tactics in this list that it is dangerous to assume that the PCs have. When encounter building, it is dangerous to assume that they'll have ANYTHING, actually. And your entire assumption seems to be that your players will have access to a bomb-focused alchemist. That's not a particularly wise assumption to make, honestly. Regardless, here are some ways to thwart over a character like that.1) Don't put the mooks near the boss to start. Even a focused alchemist isn't likely to kill more than the direct hit target with a bomb, the others will likely be weakened, but hardly dead (they have 14 hp each, so assume an APL 10 party (CR –4) your alchemist has 5d6 bombs for a safe guestimate of 8 to 9...
Actually, I didn't assume a lot of specific tactics, I gave a few examples of the different types of abilities that PC's have, to demonstrate that most parties will find this encounter only slightly more dangerous than the dragon alone.
If you disperse the frogs, the PCs will go straight past them. If you cluster them around the dragon, to delay the melee characters reaching the dragon, then the backwash from AoE spells will take them out.
Yes, if you are building scenarios for random parties, something almost none of us will ever or should ever do (most of us will be designing for our home games, and should be tweaking even prepublished paths to challenge the specific party), you cannot assume the party will have a specific tactic. But almost all parties will have a mix of close range and short range, AoE and targeted. Many will have battle field control (smoke, grease, etc.) especially at moderate high levels.
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2) Swarm the ranged guy. Bombs might be supernatural abilities, but using a ranged weapon still provokes an attack of opportunity. If the boggards swarm your alchemist friend, each of them will get an attack of opportunity against you. And what if they don't even bother using those attacks to damage you? What if they trip you? Or grapple you? Or use dirty tricks? Your alchemist's CMD isn't going to be that good, but one of those conditions will set you up for a catastrophic death when the dragon comes rolling around. I can practically hear him saying, "+4 on my attack rolls to hit this prone alchemist? Dude, heck yes!"
Well, first of all, this would require a pretty drastic rewrite of the AoO rules.
the only combat manuevers that can be combined with AoO are disarm, sunder, and trip, so they can't grapple me. Or dirty trick. They can try to trip, but frankly any 10th level who can't defend against a 4th level trip has other problems, For that matter, any 10th level ranged fighter who hasn't figured out how to prevent AoO, is seriously hosed already.