I probably flubbed my English somehow when I used that term. :p
I probably flubbed my English somehow when I used that term. :p
Cross-pollinates. ^.^
There you go. :)
We should have Gary build a macro or something that automatically reposts that post by you, Erik, whenever the topic comes up of "My way is the right way to play the game."
hm, so we have a pendulum swing into one aspect of the game and for qite a time staying there.... and that automatically makes it "right" or the only decent way to go ?
Just looking at history... that tendency actually worries me.
And I am wondering why actually we speak of an evolution of role-playing if we simply re-imagine old adventures from the early decade of roleplaying. If the main way "supported" (not the sole way we _personally_ consider "right") seems at current to be the dungeon-crawl way ? Shattered Star, final three parts of Skulls and Shackles, parts of Reign of Winter.
Someone asked elsewhere : when again will we get a city-centric AP ?
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pzcr?Looking-for-AP-suggestions#8
Or an exploratory one focusing on a specific region like Kingmaker ?
Are we ? *shrug*
Erik Mona casting word of awesome
Somebody gotta start the slow clap.
*applause*
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We should have Gary build a macro or something that automatically reposts that post by you, Erik, whenever the topic comes up of "My way is the right way to play the game."hm, so we have a pendulum swing into one aspect of the game and for qite a time staying there.... and that automatically makes it "right" or the only decent way to go ?
Nope, but that's why we have an industry with a bunch of different companies to meet all those different needs. This is called having "diverging interests" which is something that happens when you get more than one person having an opinion about something.
Just looking at history... that tendency actually worries me.
And I am wondering why actually we speak of an evolution of role-playing if we simply re-imagine old adventures from the early decade of roleplaying. If the main way "supported" (not the sole way we _personally_ consider "right") seems at current to be the dungeon-crawl way ? Shattered Star, final three parts of Skulls and Shackles, parts of Reign of Winter.
Basically, to break it down, all you're asking is, "Why aren't you making more products that I like?"
To which the answer is - because they're making products that trend toward the "likes" of their market majority. It should be a well known saying at this point (especially around here) that you can't please everyone all the time. However, Paizo still does their best to put out the occasional product that isn't for their market majority and even engages in experimental themes from time to time. That's already better than most companies would do.
But looking at your statement, "that tendancy actually worries me," I'm beginning to think the larger issue here, for you, isn't that you want them to make more products you like but, rather, that their market majority is beginning to trend away from your specific tastes. Or perhaps, as your tastes have evolved over the years, that you may be trending away from the market majority (if Paizo's target market is assumed to have stayed relatively the same over the past decade).
If I suddenly woke up one day and found that the market now favoured Brony-themed Adventure Paths (or, shudder, that I suddenly did) and Paizo, in following the trend, continued to make products that the vast majority really enjoyed, but I no longer did, then that would suck, yes. However, no one would be to blame for that - not myself, not Paizo, not even the market. It merely becomes a matter of diverging interests. Now, I'd stick around to see if Paizo would still put out the occasional non-Brony material (I'm sure they would - they're accommodating like that) but for the most part I suppose I would start looking to see if other products met my interest.
Someone asked elsewhere : when again will we get a city-centric AP ?
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pzcr?Looking-for-AP-suggestions#8
Or an exploratory one focusing on a specific region like Kingmaker ?
Are we ? *shrug*
The answer to that is easy: when it's feasible and when there is enough demand. Simple. Patience is a virtue.
I really, really, really, want a crap-ton of material about Casmaron but I understand and respect the fact that the creative team has a to-do list over a mile long and that while my interests are on there, they may not be top priority. I'll probably have to wait another five years before I finally get to see a bunch of great stuff about Ninshabur and the like but that's fine.
As for a region-exploration one, well, isn't that what this thread is about? The Osirion region AP. Sure, it may not be a hex-crawl, but it is most certainly about exploring a single region - its history, its people, its myths, and its mysteries. So, uh, wish granted!
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Fact of the matter is, whether you like it or not, there is a growing trend of people that want more experimental adventures. Modules and campaigns that have settings and tropes that are different from the norm and, most importantly, also well-written. This doesn't mean that the standard style of modules are bad or not unique. Far from it. But if you wanted a standard adventure where you fight demons or undead or dragons in a Western European setting, it's not hard to find one (Pathfinder, 3.5 or 3.0). And publishing those kinds of adventures over and over again does get boring after awhile, especially for those that want to see a new and different setting.
Personally, I want to see an adventure set in the New World. I'd absolutely love to see the creatures of folklore from the Native Americans and I love the themes of exploration and the culture of the different tribes out there. Unfortunately, there are very few modules that take place in such a setting and usually, it's just a one shot module that barely touches on such themes of culture. But most importantly, I'd want the adventure path to be well-written and well-researched. And I think that'd be possible if Paizo gives the same attention to such an adventure as they do their other adventures. Again, this isn't to say that my New World adventure is superior to the standard adventures out there. But, it'd be a wonderful, novel experience to run and to play.
And that's also how I feel with more pulpy aspects of fantasy, like ancient astronauts, Lovecraftian elements, firearms, Victorian science fiction, sword and planet, and whatever else is out there. They aren't better, and they shouldn't replace classics. But, there should be more modules with them in there for the large amount of people that want someone more experimental.
And to reiterate, in big bold letters, so that no one can miss what I am saying.
Well sure, Gorbacz. But we're playing Pathfinder, not D&D. ;)
And yes, I know the roots of Pathfinder originated in D&D 3.5... but let's face it. Pathfinder ain't D&D. It is something better. And I say that as someone who started with the first-print AD&D books and D&D Basic Set.
Nope, but that's why we have an industry with a bunch of different companies to meet all those different needs. This is called having "diverging interests" which is something that happens when you get more than one person having an opinion about something.
Actually, do we ? DnD 5E (or 4E) ? not really ? Exalted... are they still publishing stuff ? Earthdawn - are they even alive atm ? Sci-Fi... yes we have FFG and hmmm. Who is publishing Traveller ?
so, no, really there aren't that many gaming companies left
Basically, to break it down, all you're asking is, "Why aren't you making more products that I like?"Just looking at history... that tendency actually worries me.
And I am wondering why actually we speak of an evolution of role-playing if we simply re-imagine old adventures from the early decade of roleplaying. If the main way "supported" (not the sole way we _personally_ consider "right") seems at current to be the dungeon-crawl way ? Shattered Star, final three parts of Skulls and Shackles, parts of Reign of Winter.
And here I thought I was asking "Why aren't paizo publishing the wonderful types of adventures they did when they still made Dungeon and throughout the first six Pathfinder APs"...
To which the answer is - because they're making products that trend toward the "likes" of their market majority. It should be a well known saying at this point (especially around here) that you can't please everyone all the time. However, Paizo still does their best to put out the occasional product that isn't for their market majority and even engages in experimental themes from time to time. That's already better than most companies would do.
Who exactly determined the market majority ? The forums ? Never seen much of a questionaire around, and if anyone on the forum who does not agree to the tendency of what is being published, he gets told that the "Majority" wants it "This way". From experience : my family got told similar stuff in Europe over the last 120 years, ever since the communist party minority actually started calling itself the majority (ahem, Bolsheviki) , just for kicks.
I have grown very critical of the assumption that someone claims to speak for the majority - even if he is in front of crowds of 100.000 people.What I am aiming is - WHO is providing fair and comprehensible, wide-ranging feedback ? People who actually have the chance to attend conventions (Sorry, I am not going to fly 5000 miles to provide some feedback at a US-based Con..) ? Or those posting most persistently on the forums ( or does quantity in posting nowadays trump quality of posts ?)... Did Paizo ever ask a marketing-consultancy company to evaluate the success of their APs ? And do the majority of players post on the forums or are even aware of them ? I somehow doubt it.
And oddly, "trending away"... Again, who says what the trend is ? I mean, precisely ? Is there something like an official "trendsetter-subscription" ? Or where is the test to qualify for being a trendsetter /Irony OFF ( I hope I made my point)
What I do wish for is diversity, not comfort in selling more easily made adventures and stuff that hearken back to adventures basically identical to concepts from 30 years ago. When our group discussed the probable Spring 2014 AP "The Mummy's Mask" the answer was a near universal "thank God". One might say "Desert adventures sell"
However, Paizo still does their best to put out the occasional product that isn't for their market majority and even engages in experimental themes from time to time. That's already better than most companies would do.
And experiments are always a good idea ? Or a success for those who finance them ?
What again happened to White Wolf after their many really innovative experiments ?Frankly - I wish paizo all the Best.
But I also note the worrying trend that every year fewer FGS shops are individually selling less and less books and APs (and yes, my local FGS sells at prices which actually are cutting rate even for the web..) - like actually only selling less of a quarter of AP-supplements these days compared to five years ago. I hope the trend reverses with Mummy's mask or hopefully earlier with "Wrath of the Righteous".
The FGS will only sell the paizo adventures nowadays after having a valid order for one (and then deliver within a week). That is because they have become a considerable financial risk.
And yes I know, I do see my momentary position as the devil's advocate.
That does not mean I am mistaken.
Patience is a virtue.
Patience is the fallback of the lazy and submissive.
And to reiterate, in big bold letters, so that no one can miss what I am saying.
...
I totally agree on that. We might have some difference on which road the experiments should focus on. You look to different worlds/aliens, personally I glance at the enormous variance of Earth's own RL culture to be introduced in less of a "soundbite" way
We also might have some difference on what "classics" are classic^^
People are surprised that D&D is full of dungeon crawls? Wow! In the next episode: "Why are there any vampires in Vampire: The Masquerade? Or any tentacled monsters in Call of Cthulhu? Neither makes sense!".
I'd reply : more dragons, less dungeons ? Could we *pretty please* get a Dragon-focused AP ? (yeah I know, Dragon's Demand, out soon - and pre-ordered at the FGS^^)
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Presumably the sales figures give them more than enough data on what is successful and what isn't. If an experimental product sells, they are more likely to take more risks with future products of a similar theme. They don't need a survey when they can just look at their own sales figures.
And I have the first Adventure path (well the anniversary edition) and the most recent one. I am not actually seeing any difference in the amount of dungeon crawl between those two...both have volumes that are pretty heavy on dungeon exploration.
And really...you are comparing your treatment by DnD companies with how people were persecuted by communists in Europe?
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Presumably the sales figures give them more than enough data on what is successful and what isn't. If an experimental product sells, they are more likely to take more risks with future products of a similar theme. They don't need a survey when they can just look at their own sales figures.
And I have the first Adventure path (well the anniversary edition) and the most recent one. I am not actually seeing any difference in the amount of dungeon crawl between those two...both have volumes that are pretty heavy on dungeon exploration.
And really...you are comparing your treatment by DnD companies with how people were persecuted by communists in Europe?
Bless him, he ain't got a sliver of an idea what it was like to be persecuted by communists. You see, first they forced you to play 4E at a gunpoint...
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Nope, but that's why we have an industry with a bunch of different companies to meet all those different needs. This is called having "diverging interests" which is something that happens when you get more than one person having an opinion about something.
Actually, do we ? DnD 5E (or 4E) ? not really ? Exalted... are they still publishing stuff ? Earthdawn - are they even alive atm ? Sci-Fi... yes we have FFG and hmmm. Who is publishing Traveller ?
so, no, really there aren't that many gaming companies left
Actually, there is are good amount of companies out there that are doing well enough to continue publishing adventures and have a good sized and loyal fan base. This is especially true thanks to crowdsourcing from Kickstarter and Indiegogo
Exalted 3rd Edition is in progress actually. The kickstarter finished up, with it succeeding quite a lot. Also, White Wolf and the Onyx Path are doing well by consolidating their shop to Print on Demand and PDFs.
Green Ronin's AGE system is also doing fairly well, supported by both the company and 3PPs. For awhile, they were in the top five RPG sellers lists (till about Fall 2012)
Savage Worlds for Pinnacle Entertainment is doing very well, and their main settings are well-supported. They are constantly on the top ten RPG sellers lists and is regarded as the easiest generic gaming engine to run.
As much as I utterly loathe the system, FATE Core has been doing well for itself. It publishes its sales here, which should be Q2. It also has some bigger names in geekdom for settings, such as The Dresden Files and Atomic Robo.
The 13th Age by Pelgrane Press is coming out, with many backers receiving their books and the PDFs out on sale. Can't tell the sales since it's just coming out.
And let's not forget Chaosium, the creators of Call of Cthulhu: the RPG. Great game, great fiction. Love it.
Basically, we are in the Era of Indie Gaming, where thanks to the Internet and crowd-sourcing, it's possible for people to make and publish good gaming systems. And while many of them might not be as big as WotC or Paizo, they still do well enough for themselves to continue publishing good products and maintain a loyal fanbase. And I personally know that at my FLGS, everyone plays and runs multiple systems. Common ones include Pathfinder, FATE, Savage Worlds, and Warhammer 40k/Fantasy. So yeah, there are more publishers out there than just Paizo and WotC
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To expand on what Odruade said above and to elaborate and clarify a few things from earlier (for ease of eyesight, I'm going to avoid nested quotes where I can):
Actually, do we ? DnD 5E (or 4E) ? not really ? Exalted... are they still publishing stuff ? Earthdawn - are they even alive atm ? Sci-Fi... yes we have FFG and hmmm. Who is publishing Traveller ?
so, no, really there aren't that many gaming companies left
Here is the Ennie nominations list. for this year. Unfortunately, it doesn't show the entire list for Fan Favorite Publisher which is a much more comprehensive list of over 30 active publishers in the industry at the moment. But the above link still shows products from over 20 publishers.
(And to add to Odruade's list above, there's also Shadowrun, Eclipse Phase, Unisystem settings from Eden Studios, etc.)
Basically, to break it down, all you're asking is, "Why aren't you making more products that I like?"And here I thought I was asking "Why aren't paizo publishing the wonderful types of adventures they did when they still made Dungeon and throughout the first six Pathfinder APs"...
Which is what you're most interested in, which is a similar question in this case to "not publishing what you like". Though I will admit my previous phrasing of your issue may have been unfairly reductive (but only a little).
Who exactly determined the market majority ? The forums ? Never seen much of a questionaire around, and if anyone on the forum who does not agree to the tendency of what is being published, he gets told that the "Majority" wants it "This way".
I have grown very critical of the assumption that someone claims to speak for the majority - even if he is in front of crowds of 100.000 people.
To be clear, I'm not claiming to speak for the majority. I try to avoid doing that like the plague. No, what I'm referring to is the sales trends that drive Paizo's market. Hence, Erik Mona can certainly speak to what the market indicators are showing. Now, not even Erik can (or would) speak for the majority but he can certainly infer certain "market majority" preferences based on Paizo's business data.
Look, it boils down to this, everyone on these boards who isn't a member of Paizo's management only has anecdotal evidence at best for what is or isn't popular or "risky" or what will or will not "work" for Paizo. And these anecdotes usually amount to "everyone at my local gaming store" or "I know 100 gamers and they all think X" - and that sort of anecdotal fluff is not what aggregate market trends should be judged by, at all. I do marketing for a living and let me say that anecdotal evidence is worthless (I'm sure any scientists on these boards will agree with me). Anecdotal evidence is only good for political talking points.
What I am aiming is - WHO is providing fair and comprehensible, wide-ranging feedback ? People who actually have the chance to attend conventions (Sorry, I am not going to fly 5000 miles to provide some feedback at a US-based Con..) ? Or those posting most persistently on the forums ( or does quantity in posting nowadays trump quality of posts ?)... Did Paizo ever ask a marketing-consultancy company to evaluate the success of their APs ? And do the majority of players post on the forums or are even aware of them ? I somehow doubt it.
They do take well-written product reviews into feedback consideration. I've heard them say as much before. I agree that the forums aren't a great indicator as that's all just anecdotal. The forums (and product reviews) can provide feedback for other things such as book layouts, design choices, stuff like that. But, primarily, it goes back to sales as the driving indicator. Though I know a few Paizo employees have mentioned in the past they'd be interested in some form of market research beyond what they already have access to.
As for using a marketing-consultancy company, as a marketer let me just say, ugh, please no! Don't get me wrong, marketing agencies have their place but they're a tool better suited to certain other industries and product focuses. Most of the time they cost way too much for way too little in terms of results. The actual effective marketing agencies cost even more. Trust me, I know the types of people that get scooped up by consulting firms and 75% of those people you wouldn't want working market research for a niche industry like RPGs (wrong tool for the wrong job).
And oddly, "trending away"... Again, who says what the trend is ? I mean, precisely ? Is there something like an official "trendsetter-subscription" ? Or where is the test to qualify for being a trendsetter /Irony OFF ( I hope I made my point)
Again, Paizo's business data says what the trend is for them as a company. We, as consumers, can infer a bit about where Paizo's success is taking them in the products they choose to produce and in what niches they feel comfortable experimenting in. Sometimes, they take larger risks and produce something in previously untested niche to see if there room to develop in an unexpected way (such as Mythic Adventures) which is the sign of a smart and successful company. But most of the time, I would assume, Paizo tries to balance their product outflow around known market preferences and by sticking to what they're best at which keeps the customers coming back for more.
What I do wish for is diversity, not comfort in selling more easily made adventures and stuff that hearken back to adventures basically identical to concepts from 30 years ago. When our group discussed the probable Spring 2014 AP "The Mummy's Mask" the answer was a near universal "thank God". One might say "Desert adventures sell"
I agree with you here. Like I said a few pages ago, I'm very excited about this AP. But you can be sure this AP will probably have quite a few pulp elements as well as Paizo's signature style of tradition mixed with oddity. That's really what put Paizo on the map - a solid stable of in-house and freelance writers who have a solid grasp of the design styles Paizo is going for, and from that they've captured and maintained a certain demographic of RPG consumers.
Actually, going back over your other posts I'm having trouble seeing your larger issue. You like the adventures Paizo used to produce (AoW, STAP, RotRL, CotCT) which were all super-successful in part because they hearkened back to adventure concepts from 30 years ago (and which defined Paizo's niche with consumers in the industry and thus has driven their pulp-oriented style ever since). . . . but you want more diversity instead of comfort in selling adventures that hearken back to concepts from 30 years ago . . . but you're excited about The Mummy's Mask which is a more traditional concept and not experimental . . . and now I'm confused.
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Yeah this has gone well into the realm of the ridiculous. I'm out.
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Bringing up Dungeon Magazine - it would be interesting if Paizo did put out a quarterly magazine/book that had 5-6, mixed typed scenarios.
Some high-level addendums to the APs, maybe even some in-between AP installment scenarios, side material and inspired material. It would be a good way to flesh out Golarion and possible source some solid feedback on new potential AP material, sourced by freelancers, up and coming writers, in-house staff, etc.
Sort of like a testing ground for concepts and exposing groups to new regions (and writers). Could also be a way to run some wierd stuff without drawing too much as far as resources are concerned against the main product line. That way you could give people what they want, even if it's in smaller bites.
Anyway.
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The argument over whether adventure paths have too many dungeons is pretty far off-topic from discussing the upcoming Osirion adventure path. If you want to argue about whether there are too many dungeons, or roleplaying vs. rollplaying, etc. please start a thread for it elsewhere.
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Given today's blog entry, I wonder if Faiths and Philosophies might offer a quick preview of Osirion in its cultural pantheon section. :)
Removed posts continuing to take the thread further off-topic. If you'd like to discuss topics other than the Mummy's Mask AP, you're welcome to do so in other threads.
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Unfortunately, when people ignore polite instructions, sometimes we have to get more direct. If you have questions or comments about the moderation, please feel free to PM a moderator or email webmaster@paizo.com. This thread, however, is not the place to discuss moderation policies, so please keep it on topic.
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Also wondering: Considering what turned up in Dragon's Demand...
WILD SPECULATION
Since we get two god articles per AP, I am curious on what deities will be covered. Khepri, Wadjet, and Apep all exist in Pathfinder apparently, so hopefully we will actually get some detail on Osirion Gods
From someone who got into the hobby just last year and who has only played PF since November, I'm rather interested in an Osirion AP.
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So why is "Desert adventure with dungeon crawls" so much more appealing to you than "Pirate adventure with dungeon crawls"?
Dungeons and Tombs in the desert ? Fits the genre ! Desert - Pyramids - nefarious traps and curses ! Dark caves, buried treasures and secret doors ! The lost palaces of the once mighty genies ? there goes "the Mummy", "Thousand and One Night" and a myriad of desert+ doom stories !
Pirates stalking through castles, looking for their enemies instead of facing them on the High Seas ? Where exactly is the overwhelming reference ? Let me ask - did the recent and pretty popular PotC feature any major dungeon crawling or even much indoor action ?Well if they did only pirate APs, some dungeoncrawling might be welcome, but half of the only existing one ?
@J.Price Noted, the rest of the non-mummy stuff got spoilerised.
Because it's really hard to figure out what you want. You seemed to like the first APs, but not the later ones. The only thing you say you actually don't like is dungeon crawls, but have those really been that much more common?
Yeah, they have, IMHO. Runelords had one major dungeon, and smallish crawls through another two. CotcT.. One major, two lesser dungeons ? Second Darkness (after AP#2). Legacy of Fire - two major dungeons. CoT. Carrion Crown, Shattered Star, Serpents Skull (and yes, I call the spatially limited underground/above ground cities dungeons ). Jade Regent (final parts). In between, the less dungeon-ish Kingmaker.
What made the "adventures they did when they still made Dungeon and throughout the first six Pathfinder APs" so wonderful that the more recent ones haven't matched?
The sense of exploration (Savage Tides aka "isle of Dread II" ) , the "in between hexes and areas wanting to be filled", Shackled City with its very weird history. Age of Worms - I didn't like, but some of the content was actually pretty inspiring at least.
Other points: I'm sure Paizo has at the very least sales figures on their own material, which is more than we have. I'm sure they can look at that to determine what's been successful and what hasn't.
Hmm, they do at best know the numbers sold directly and those they sold to the distributors ? But not individual sales at the FLGSs. Not the number sold in the stores or Cons, neither at what margins these have been sold ? Or sold "only" as a package deal (as in buy all six at once, at a discount price to get rid of stock)?
The only AP-Pathfinder , that currently seems utterly unavailable to physically purchase is a part of Kingmaker, AFAIK ?
Do you actually have hard data supporting "fewer FGS shops are individually selling less and less books and APs" and "selling less of a quarter of AP-supplements these days compared to five years ago"? Or are you basing that off of a few local stores? Or less? A lot more stuff may also be moving online, that was sold in stores 5 years back. I know I order most of mine, but then I don't really have a FLGS.
Let me put it this way, and yes it is not an independent scientific study. I have a reasonably strong mercantile background which gives me some idea of margins, crediting etc.. In my area (the greater vicinity of a major German city, with 2 mil+ citizens), of the originally 10 stores (in 2000), now there are only two left, because the sale of hardcopies is down due to illegal/legal .pdfs. The rest went bankrupt. Cons are still packed, so customer interest prevails. I know the owners of both remaining shops. pretty well.
Neither orders more than half a dozen copies, a dozen at most for the earlier installments, after that, purchases only by prior announcement/pre-order. Original claim, when "Pathfinder" started out was a calculated sale of about thirty-something copies. My favourite FLGS sells for prices undercutting Amazon.uk.com and amazon.de, and is a major online dealer itself (diversification etc. ), so I guess, its not a question of economy.Both shops actually had to strongly expand their business, because role-playing stuff alone does not support the owner and an employee. Both shops actually sell only Paizo and FFG stuff in any reasonable numbers anymore, some very limited collectors of Chaosium and Hasbro's 4E around. Instead of selling almost any new hardcover/major title by the pallet.
Everything else - not even worth doing customs over.
No, I am not doing their book, but I am on a first name base and get invited to their christmas parties^^ So far, my locally limited experience.
Other shops in Germany... I only know three shops being left (out of about thirty I knew first hand) , each strongly diversified (into comics, board games, tabletop material or LARP-equipment), to pay the rent.
*shrug*... give me the money, and I will fund a nice and more profound academic study^^
Last but not least : It seems like GMs buy Pathfinder, few players do, because the content is overwhelmingly aimed at GMs. Say, Core Rulebook or APG/UM/UC are stable and more reliable sellers for the FLGSs. And if a GM won't buy the path = less word of mouth, less stories, less recommendations. And fewer players actually ask about "doing that campaign".
Since we get two god articles per AP, I am curious on what deities will be covered. Khepri, Wadjet, and Apep all exist in Pathfinder apparently, so hopefully we will actually get some detail on Osirion Gods
Anything remotely Egyptian will do, also I'd really love to see a nice version of Seth... perhaps, linking him up to the Dominion or simply the Black Pharao/Cthulhu mythos^^
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Vikingson: Spoilerization still leaves it in this thread. If you want to have that conversation, start a new thread for it. Please stop derailing this one.
Egyptian Monsters for the win in the bestiaries! Ammit, Ichneumon, Wadjets minions and Anubites!
Vikingson: Spoilerization still leaves it in this thread. If you want to have that conversation, start a new thread for it. Please stop derailing this one.
*noted* + *will refrain* (bit late now to erase the part of the post)
As for "Mummy's Mask" anyone has an idea how "elemental" or "undead-ish" - I think there is very little chance of NOT encountering mummies^^ - the AP will be ? Fair mix of both ?
This might just be interesting for the almost inevitable Rogue characters...
As for "Mummy's Mask" anyone has an idea how "elemental" or "undead-ish" - I think there is very little chance of NOT encountering mummies^^ - the AP will be ? Fair mix of both ?
This might just be interesting for the almost inevitable Rogue characters...
And the opportunity for someone to go wild with the Crypt Breaker archetype alchemist from Inner Sea Magic! Love that archetype, and Osirion pyramid/crypts are where the concept originates from! If I wasn't the primary GM for my group, you can bet that's what I'd be playing in this one!
I for one am really excited about an Osirion themed Adventure Path. I think this would be an excellent adventure to add a time-travel section to the adventure where actions in the past change the present. Any chance you think that they could publish a pawn collection for The Mummy's Mask next year? And please, leave a little space in the plot line for side adventures.
Maybe after The Mummy's Mask we can get an Adventure Path with a voyage to Vudra, sort of like Jade Regent.
Maybe after The Mummy's Mask we can get an Adventure Path with a voyage to Vudra, sort of like Jade Regent.
JJ strongly hinted, that in the foreseeable future there would be little "official" published about Vudra/ the Casmaron continent.
Let's hope for a nice Ossirian sandbox (pun fully intended) campaign^^
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I asked this already but since no one answered I'll ask again. Does anyone know who the iconics for this ap are or is it to early to say?
It's too early to say for sure. We can, however, make some predictions. Paizo tends to use iconics that 1) have not appeared in the previous AP, 2) fit with the theme of the AP and 3) fill the traditional four roles of a D&D party. They also tend to want to include all the iconics at least once, and the iconic Gunslinger, Summoner, Ninja and Antipaladin have yet to appear in an AP (is there an iconic Antipaladin?). 1 seems to exclude Merisiel, Seelah, Seoni, and Alain, though it is not absolute; Merisiel and Feiya have both appeared in back-to-back APs. 2 would seem to exclude Hayato and Reiko, but note that the latter hasn't appeared in an AP. Valeros, Kyra and Ezren have all shown up in Garund APs.
I'll go ahead and predict that the iconics for MM will be Lirianne or Valeros filling the martial role, Kyra or Alahazra filling the divine role, Balazar or Ezren filling the arcane role, and Merisiel or Reiko filling the skill roll. Which is most likely? Well, Merisiel, Kyra and Valeros appeared in Rise of the Runelords, which makes them more likely to appear in APs than they might otherwise be, and their marketability might outweigh the tendency to include each iconic at least once. A party of Valeros, Kyra, Balazar, and Merisiel seems most likely to me.
I think we will finally see Lirielle as one of the Iconics for this one.
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This is a dungeon heavy adventure we'll see Merisiel.Merisiel appeared in Wrath of the Righteous, and I believe this is a McCreary rather than a Jacobs AP.
There's no reason she can't appear in two APs in a row, the important thing is the thematics. I think traps will be a big element of this campaign so we'll see Merisiel again.
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There's no reason she can't appear in two APs in a row, the important thing is the thematics. I think traps will be a big element of this campaign so we'll see Merisiel again.This is a dungeon heavy adventure we'll see Merisiel.Merisiel appeared in Wrath of the Righteous, and I believe this is a McCreary rather than a Jacobs AP.
You're right and I'm wrong. As of now, two iconics have appeared in back-to-back APs: Merisiel and Feiya. Merisiel appeared in Serpent's Skull and Carrion Crown and Feiya appeared in Carrion Crown and Jade Regent. Merisiel with six appearances appears most often out of all the iconics. Yeah, we'll probably see her. Shame, she should really stop hogging the spotlight.
There's no reason she can't appear in two APs in a row, the important thing is the thematics. I think traps will be a big element of this campaign so we'll see Merisiel again.This is a dungeon heavy adventure we'll see Merisiel.Merisiel appeared in Wrath of the Righteous, and I believe this is a McCreary rather than a Jacobs AP.
JJ has said they avoid doing the same iconics two APs in a row on purpose.