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I'm wondering if any friendly PC in the 15' Cone Burst area also suffer the spells effect? Since it doesn't affect sightless foes, I wondered if party members with their backs to the caster might also avoid it? I'm guessing without any real rules in Pathfinder around character facing the answer is; yes it affects them too. And of course being magical, there's always the possibility that it just magically avoids damage to friendlies. ;)
I love the idea of the spell, but until I got precise shot I already had many frustrations with my ranged attacks due to party tanks always and immediately in melee with foes. If this does affect party members, it seems like it would be difficult to pull off. And yes, just in case anyone is wondering, I do remind party members at the beginning of encounters that there are times when rushing into battle to immediately melee foes can cause problems for casters, <sigh> but they always seem to forget or ignore it. I'm playing in PF Society play with at least 3 tables always running, so I'm often playing with different players for the 1st time.
Yes, it effects allies. The DM may certainly give them a +1 or 2 Circumstance bonus for not facing, etc, but one of the problems of Color Spray is that it does hit allies.
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Thanks for the reply DrDeth - I figured that'd be the case. One of my reasons for considering it, is that my Gnome Sorcerer gets a +1 bonus to the DC. That results in a DC 16 for the save, so it sounds risky for allies even with the DM allowing the circumstance bonus. I'm thinking this is one that'd be cool to have, but 1 I should probably take a miss on due to the table dynamics.
Unless an area spell specifically says otherwise, it hits every creature that is in the area. Friend and enemy. For burst spells (like Fireball) this even extends to the caster - if the caster is inside the area of his own fireball spell, he takes the damage as well.
As a side note, there is no facing in combat in Pathfinder, so the PCs cannot declare they are 'facing away' from anything.
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As a side note, there is no facing in combat in Pathfinder, so the PCs cannot declare they are 'facing away' from anything.Yep, I figured that was the case which is why I said ealier;
I'm guessing without any real rules in Pathfinder around character facing the answer is; yes it affects them too.
But thanks for confirming.
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As a side note, there is no facing in combat in Pathfinder, so the PCs cannot declare they are 'facing away' from anything.
But the DM can assign situational modifiers for things not spelled out in the rules.
I have found a 15' cone to be one of the easiest shapes to use to avoid allies with, though, so I wouldn't discount it if I were you.
As a side note, there is no facing in combat in Pathfinder, so the PCs cannot declare they are 'facing away' from anything.But the DM can assign situational modifiers for things not spelled out in the rules.
You mean a bonus to the save in this case?
Yes. Mind you, a +1 isn't a big deal, but certainly as a player I'd request one in this case. But if the DM said "no" it'd be no biggie.
As a side note, there is no facing in combat in Pathfinder, so the PCs cannot declare they are 'facing away' from anything.But the DM can assign situational modifiers for things not spelled out in the rules.
The fact that nothing, anywhere, references facing makes it pretty well spelled out that there is no facing in the rules.
Right. But the DM can still assign a situational modifier for it, can he not? Or are you saying he can't?
In other words, other than for DM assigned & up to him situational modifiers, there is no facing.
Right. But the DM can still assign a situational modifier for it, can he not? Or are you saying he can't?
In other words, other than for DM assigned & up to him situational modifiers, there is no facing.
I think you are well aware that the point of the argument is:
1) The GM probably won't give that kind of a benefit, so the guy who didn't even know allies were affected should not come away expecting a benefit like that
2) The GM probably shouldn't give that kind of a benefit, because there are no facing rules, so it would lack internal consistency to change that on the spot like that.
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*shrug* If I was asked for this I'd probably grant it. That's what situational modifiers are for, right? Things that aren't spelled ou in the rules? I think that was DrDeth's point. It makes sense from a realism PoV, and it's not a game-breaker - the risk of failing is only 5% less.
But, I agree, there's no reason to expect it, and as a) it relies totally on GM judgement, and b) judges in PFS are given exactly as much autonomy as a two year old at bedtime, it'd be wise to assume it'll never happen unless you're in a home game with a GM you know to be reasonable.
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If a GM was willing to give me situational modifiers like "I'm facing away, can I have a +1 bonus?" then I'd also expect that GM to be giving bonuses to little nuances that the bad guys get with whatever he can think of, unless he's feeling extremely generous.
It'd be easier to manage the whole thing without having to give those bonuses, unless the game is a homebrew, in which case, we're talking apples and oranges.
Am I the only one that uses situational modifiers in home games then? Sure, I give them sometimes to bad guys too. I thought the reason they were in the book was so that GMs used them.
My bad.
You're not the only one, at all, but I wouldn't grant this particular one because facing (or the lack )adds (or removes) sooooo many potential 'what-if's to the tactical portion of the game.
Am I the only one that uses situational modifiers in home games then? Sure, I give them sometimes to bad guys too. I thought the reason they were in the book was so that GMs used them.
My bad.
It's not an issue of situational modifiers--they're a good thing in general.
It's that specific situational modifier that is problematic because, when combined with the facing rules in Pathfinder (or rather the lack there of), it would lead to changing rules all over the place.
"Can I get a bonus to hit because he just attacked that guy and so his back is to me?" is just the tip of the iceberg.
As a GM in my home game (which I clarified was what I was discussing), I'd think that was a reasonable situational modifier as the colour spray affects the eyes. That's all.
Again, my bad. Apologies for doing it wrong.
Edit: To reiterate, it'd never fly in PFS, and as a home game player I might ask, but certainly not expect it.
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I'd let you close your eyes, iff you knew, in character, what spell he was casting. But I'd also treat you as being blind until your next turn so it would actually be a trade-off.
And if he's silly enough to say "Shut your eyes, I'm about to cast color spray." then the enemies would have a chance to do the same.
There was a recent thread about this, and I don't agree that seeing the Color Spray is necessary. Patterns are mind affecting, and someone with their eyes closed are not sightless, just currently unable to see, so they are not immune.
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Not trying to start an argument, because we're already pretty deep into house rule territory, but would you consider a temporarily blinded creature as "sightless" or just "unable to see"? Can I cast Blindness/Deafness on you, and then Color Spray to add insult to injury? I say no.
I'm adapting the rules for avoiding gaze attacks, if that gives you a better idea of my position.
Not trying to start an argument, because we're already pretty deep into house rule territory, but would you consider a temporarily blinded creature as "sightless" or just "unable to see"? Can I cast Blindness/Deafness on you, and then Color Spray to add insult to injury? I say no.
I'm adapting the rules for avoiding gaze attacks, if that gives you a better idea of my position.
I would consider a blind person to be sighted, but currently unable to see.
I would consider sightless creatures to be those who totally lack the capability--something without eyes at all, like an ooze, for example.
I would say you could Color Spray someone that was just subjected to Blindness.
Color spray is a great spell, especially for a gnome. Just make sure your teammates know in advance that you will be using it, and discuss tactics related to it ahead of time.
If players say they are closing their eyes they gain blind condition until their next turn.
For sanity reasons, they need to gain the blind condition for 1 round. Could be from either the beginning of their current turn to the beginning of their next, or the end of the current to the end of the next.
If they close their eyes at the end of their turn, and open them at the beginning of the next, they don't really have their eyes closed for much (particularly if they are ranged attackers).
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I'd let you close your eyes, iff you knew, in character, what spell he was casting. But I'd also treat you as being blind until your next turn so it would actually be a trade-off.
That seems reasonable.
And if he's silly enough to say "Shut your eyes, I'm about to cast color spray." then the enemies would have a chance to do the same.
Well sure, if he says it in a language the enemy speaks...
The whole idea of having your back turned for a bonus would only really be realistic if the spells area only just reaches into your square. If the spell is shot "over" or "through" allies to hit enemies in front of them, they would still see the spell clearly in front of them and get no situational bonus...If I was DM anyway.
There is still a lot of debate over Color Spray as it only says that "Sightless creatures are not affected." A character closing his eyes is not sightless. An ooze is sightless.
To answer the original question again, if your allies are in the area of effect, the are affected regardless of any facing or eyes being close or whatever, unless they happen to be sightless. Sightless is a Special Quality that is listed under some creatures like the Giant Sea Anemone. It does not apply to all blind creatures.