So Paizo has adventure paths, in 6 parts, now pawns to go with them, item cards for all the loot in them, and flip mats for some of the locations.
I would love to be able to buy "Kingmaker: The Complete Adventure" that has everything I need to do the entire path, including flip mats of any combat locations mapped in the books. I can't imagine a better way to sell the Adventure Path product than as the entire experience all in one.
I wouldn't expect it to come out along side the regular AP but at the completion of it or down the road a ways maybe.
From what I've seen, this isn't something I expect Paizo to do, but I want to show my full support for this idea. Does anyone disagree? What are the drawbacks to this I'm overlooking?
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It's been said that if they do compilations for every AP they own, it'd actually cannibalize their sales. Basically, people wouldn't buy the separate APs anymore because they'd wait for the compilation to come out instead. Thus they'd lose money, since AP is where they make the majority of their money, and go out of business.
A compilation of the "extra bits"---even if it's a bundle in the store, rather than a separate product---may be a useful thing.
Or maybe a package of all the add-ons as part of an upgraded adventure path subscription? I've stopped my Pathfinder Flip-Mat, Map Packs, and Cards subscriptions, but I think it would be neat to get all the maps and cards used in the adventure path for one extra price.
There are 2 major things involved in what you are talking about that mean this wont ever happen and is a bad business choice for paizo.
The first as Odraude said is that people might not buy APs as they are released if they expect a cheaper hardback book to come out later (like the rise of the runelords anniversary edition).
Vic explains why this isnt going to happen here
The second is what you are essentially asking for is a 'boxed set'. Something that literally ruined TSR because of perceptions, costs, and difficulty to market and keep on shelves. Vic explains the reality of that here
Chief Technical Officer
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All that said, we have, very occasionally, as part of special sale events, done bundles that group together all the volumes of an AP plus some accessories for a slightly discounted price... but we're careful to ensure that the price is set such that, if you had purchased all of those items as a subscriber when they were released, you got a better value than we offer in the sale. We really want to underscore the message that we provide the best value to people who subscribe, and that the best time to subscribe is "right now."
All that said, we have, very occasionally, as part of special sale events, done bundles that group together all the volumes of an AP plus some accessories for a slightly discounted price... but we're careful to ensure that the price is set such that, if you had purchased all of those items as a subscriber when they were released, you got a better value than we offer in the sale. We really want to underscore the message that we provide the best value to people who subscribe, and that the best time to subscribe is "right now."
Yes, I agree. To me this would be a product directed at two groups 1. Newcomers who weren't subscribed "right then" and want to grab the really popular APs from the past now that they're hooked and 2. Nostalgia. This would likely apply more to the pre-PFRPG APs. But I think anyone would like to buy a set of the Kingmaker locations in flip mat and pawns to boot.
If priced in a way as to be worse than subscription and even at the same price as buying the components piecemeal or marginally better, and not released until significantly after the initial run, I don't see it as a cannibal move. If you told me in two to three years I could get Reign of WInter or Wrath of the Righteous in a collection, that wouldn't remotely affect my decision to get them now. But if you told me that I could buy the maps and pawns and item cards and maybe even the associated campaign setting book and a copy of the player's guide to go with my reign of winter game in a bundle right now. Then I'd get them "right now".
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What about it being a "bundle" makes it a more enticing deal to you than simply putting the AP books, maps, cards, etc. in your cart and purchasing them piecemeal? Would you expect a discount? Because that's probably best achieved by subscribing to the AP and getting 15% off everything in the "bundle."
I know pawns can't be made until the final module of the AP is done because the art and finalized NPCs/monsters aren't available until the whole AP has gone to print. As far as player's guides go, you're not going to get a physical one of those unless you have the PDF printed and bound yourself.
What about a bundle of just the extras. Like a "Adventure Path Support Kit". So like for Reign of Winter it could include People of the North, Irrisen, the map book, face cards, item cards and perhaps some key miniatures.
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Actually what might be nice if we want to "self-assemble" such a bundle would be a list of all the support materials(with links) on the store page for each AP. I know a lot of the supplementary material is listed in the player's guide, but a central place with links to the appropriate flip mats, item cards, pawns, dice sets, etc. would be very convenient.
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What about it being a "bundle" makes it a more enticing deal to you than simply putting the AP books, maps, cards, etc. in your cart and purchasing them piecemeal?
Because one has to go to (it seems) five or six different places in the store to track down all those things.
I like ryric's idea, too.
Paizo just isn't in the business of sales, they're in the business of subscriptions, of steady income they can budget off of that - by the way - earns them far more money than if they simply put things up for sale.
Consider your average adventure path - a subscriber, even with all of his 'discounts' after shipping runs around $26/month for an AP. That works out to over $150 for the six soft-cover books (and pdf's which are admittedly a fraction of Paizo's overall costs). Meanwhile the anniversary edition of Rise of the Runelords retailed for about $60, though I believe it can be pruchased from book sellers and the like for closer to $40. I'd be hard pressed to believe very many people would buy entire AP's for $150 at a retail store or even for $100 all at once.
Think of it like taxes - if you had to write a check to the government for the taxes you owe every month or every year there'd be riots in the street, but since the government just takes it out of your check monthly, you rarely notice just how much your being bilked for.
So no - no matter how often or how loudly Paizo's dedicated customer base calls for it, we won't be getting any more collected editions. I comfort myself by believing that things are the way they are because if they weren't then we wouldn't have Pathfinder at all - I mean, no one in their right mind thinks anyone is getting rich off of gaming products - but that reality dictates that the things we might want most, we will probably never see.
A shame, too. They'd be gorgeous on a bookshelf, whereas the APs as they're currently published look like I'm an avid collecter of Field & Stream unless you read the spines closely. ;)
Oh, well, at least we can hope they do the other non-PF APs - Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, and Legacy of Fire, wasn't it? - as PF special volumes...
Now I have to say I think a fair compromise would indeed to make available updated 3.5 AP's in a fashion similar to RotRL - the material is out of print, needs to be updated anyway and 90% of the work is already done. If published with the understanding that absolutely no AP's with the Pathfinder ruleset would ever be made, I think it would be good for both the consumers who are clamoring to buy it and the publishing company which, presumably, would like to have their money.
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Actually what might be nice if we want to "self-assemble" such a bundle would be a list of all the support materials(with links) on the store page for each AP. I know a lot of the supplementary material is listed in the player's guide, but a central place with links to the appropriate flip mats, item cards, pawns, dice sets, etc. would be very convenient.
Anyone can do this with the 'lists' feature on the site
Actually what might be nice if we want to "self-assemble" such a bundle would be a list of all the support materials(with links) on the store page for each AP. I know a lot of the supplementary material is listed in the player's guide, but a central place with links to the appropriate flip mats, item cards, pawns, dice sets, etc. would be very convenient.Anyone can do this with the 'lists' feature on the site
He's talking about a shopping list, so he can easily locate, assemble and purchase the stuff in one fell swoop.
Yeah, one could create their own shopping list with that feature, but it's not always the easiest thing to do, since said person isn't the one who linked all the products in the first place - and, ultimately, why would they go to the trouble of saving it via the lists feature once they already purchased the items?
Such a list only benefits others when they know to go to that person's profile and look for it, whereas a list assembled by the storekeepers benefits all shoppers.
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So no - no matter how often or how loudly Paizo's dedicated customer base calls for it, we won't be getting any more collected editions.
I suspect that Paizo's most dedicated fans aren't calling for it at all.
Because they've already subscribed to the APs.
Personally, I would prefer the APs to the collected editions. The RotRLAE had loads of stuff missing.
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I definitely think it makes sense to stick with things as is.
That said, affordable but pretty binders for APs would get my thumbs up.
If published with the understanding that absolutely no AP's with the Pathfinder ruleset would ever be made, I think it would be good for both the consumers who are clamoring to buy it and the publishing company which, presumably, would like to have their money.
I don't think that would matter. They published RotRAE with the understanding that absolutely no other AP's would ever be published that way, and these threads pop up with a good frequency. (For the record I like collected versions of things and would buy up collected versions of any AP's published that way, but I understand why they don't intend to)
Davick -- I too, would LOVE to see Kingmaker as an all-in-one adventure bundle, as I started playing Pathfinder kind of late in the game and missed some/much of the great stuff, especially written early on. Wish I could get my hands on a complete set of Kingmaker stuff including flip-mats and such, but alas, they are mostly out-of-print or charging an arm and a leg for them on ebay...
So...
+1 VOTE for a COMPLETE KINGMAKER COMPILATION! (if it ever gets put to a vote...)
The kingmaker AP is still in print isn't it? (I wouldn't be dissuaded by Paizo's "non-mint" categories - from my experience, they're great value and generally still in very good condition and probably better or at least as good as what you'd get from Ebay).
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Chief Technical Officer
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Now I have to say I think a fair compromise would indeed to make available updated 3.5 AP's in a fashion similar to RotRL - the material is out of print, needs to be updated anyway and 90% of the work is already done.
James Jacobs, who updated Rise of the Runelords, would be highly amused by your "90% done" estimate. It took him *months*.
As for them being "out of print," please see this post.
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A shame, too. They'd be gorgeous on a bookshelf, whereas the APs as they're currently published look like I'm an avid collecter of Field & Stream unless you read the spines closely.
How about a "sleeve" for each AP, to make it look like a single book on the shelf? Sort of like the sleeve on the DM screen?
"We've bundled these related products together for Reign of Winter, and you get this handsome bonus sleeve to wrap all your AP books together for only an additional $5!" (all products at full or nearly full price)
Actually, the subscription is a pretty nifty deal, since you get both the .pdf (much earlier, depending upon your location on the globe) and the hardcopy, plus the player's guide.
And if you get the .pdf, one can print out the sections for individual annotation and "script marks", or even try to print out the maps for battlefield use. Or hand out say, the chapter about a particular god/dess to an interested player ?
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Creative Director
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Another important thing to remember is that we don't hire new folks to do compilation type products. Adding compilations and/or reprints like this basically means that the time we could have been working on something brand new is not there. As a general rule, we tend to prefer to offer new products when we can.
That said, folks interested in reprinted/updated content should definitely check out Inner Sea Gods next year, which takes Sean K Reynolds' deity articles from Pathfinder and expands them and collects them in one book and then adds lots more deity-related content for players and GMs alike.
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