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it seems like it happens a lot in RPGs where people decide that their character should be a racist misogynistic d-bag, and then use the "but its in my backstory" card when i ask them about it
why does every Barbarian or other fringe type PC have to be like that?
i'm all for coming up with compelling backstories, it makes my job easier. racism and misogyny is not compelling, its just offensive and tends to put gamers in a bad mood when the Barbarian wont listen to the wizard PC because "she's a southern wench"
my question is, is this a recurring problem with gamers as a whole or just in the midwest?
do gamers use their characters to act out their deep down racism and sexism, cause it kinda seems that way from my seat.
and thats really, really disappointing because in my youth it seemed that gamers were a more liberal forward thinking bunch then the general populace.
do woman gamers run into this a lot, does it turn them off from gaming?
how as a GM do you deal with this?
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Probably a mix of generally younger players plus the tendency to roleplay character more true to form of an idealized self. I'd wager d-bag characters are indicative of a d-bag player even if they're outwardly nice. I can see RPGs as a great way for a sociopath to get his thrills out. Could explain why I enjoy good-aligned, altruistic characters.
Thankfully, my gaming groups is older and I have not run into this. Heck, my Saturday game has two women in it, and I can say with certainty that if someone tried being a misogynist and excusing it with the, "But I'm just playing my character..." card they would tear him apart.
That said, I don't know that I agree with Buri that a d-bag character indicates a similar personality; I generally play good-aligned, chivalrous characters, but I've had a couple of characters that I explored some pretty nasty attitudes and topics with.
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Some people like playing flawed characters who they themselves don't agree with.
Of course, that's not ideal for every single campaign or party.
well said,
they have been younger, another problem i've run into with younger gamersis they want to turn it into Letters to Penthouse, i nip that in the bud almost immediately:)
full disclosure, my age is around 35-38, i personally like to keep the porn and racism and such out of my games, the problem is when they try repeatedly to shove it in (thats what she said!!!) their are only so many outside of game battles you can fight and with a limited pool of gamers sometimes it can be difficult.
it should also be noted most of the people outside my family that i'd game with are in the restaurant or construction fields, which in general are surprisingly racist and misogynistic, i had one foreman at a construction company i worked for say he'd never hire any women or black people (and this was in seattle even!)
thats why i was wondering if its a regional problem with gamers or a problem in gaming everywhere.
There are some players (often young) who regard this sort of behavior as having the thrill of things that are forbidden in our current society. However, you may just have encountered an unhappy statistical cluster: I've never run into a player who insists that his/her character is racist (unless of course some kind of mechanical benefit results - such as dwarves and rangers!). I doubt that it's generally some kind of deep-seated subconscious quirk of the player coming out; more often a crude attempt to make 'the character' distinct from the player in the player's mind. Although, to be honest, I have yet to see any female I've gamed with make a female character who hates all men on principle...
Are you really running into a lot of players with these attitudes, or is it the same players over and over with different characters?
(As far as the "just playing my character" excuse goes, look elsewhere on the boards to find many, many threads dealing with this particular form of excuse and how others have dealt with it.)
it has happened with 4 different people i've played with in my area, none were invited back to my table. i've stopped playing with other people other then my wife and kids entirely.
i did find one group in my area where that didn't seem to be a problem but alas my schedule made it really difficult to game with them, they game on sundays and with a school age daughter and 2 year old son, it was hard leaving the wife to deal with sunday nights solo, also had a knee injury that knocked me out for a good while, then re-injured it chasing the dog.
perhaps i'll look them up again:)
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it seems like it happens a lot in RPGs where people decide that their character should be a racist misogynistic d-bag, and then use the "but its in my backstory" card when i ask them about it
why does every Barbarian or other fringe type PC have to be like that?my question is, is this a recurring problem with gamers as a whole or just in the midwest?
I think you are having a run of bad luck getting into a game with reasonable people, and then you are blowing it up to a worldwide, game-wide phenomenon.
It is not.
Leave whatever douches you are playing with and find another game.
On the other hand, if you really think it is a Midwest thing, come on out to California. Our current game group consists of three liberal men (one is Asian), two women (one Asian, one Hispanic), and a gay fellow (sorry, he's white). You won't get any douchebaggery here.
I certainly don't see it as a regional problem... I live in the midwest and see this in less than 10% of the games...
One racist player (against goblins)
One racist game (against elves)
One sexist game
That isn't many considering how many games I have played in.
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it should also be noted most of the people outside my family that i'd game with are in the restaurant or construction fields, which in general are surprisingly racist and misogynistic, i had one foreman at a construction company i worked for say he'd never hire any women or black people (and this was in seattle even!)
Paula Deen says Hi!! construction is no surprise either. Generally the less education the higher the intolerance. Not saying anyone without a degree is a racist (which is usually a symptom of ignorance), but there is a statistical correlation...Among ALL races.
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On the other hand, if you really think it is a Midwest thing, come on out to California. Our current game group consists of three liberal men (one is Asian), two women (one Asian, one Hispanic), and a gay fellow (sorry, he's white). You won't get any douchebaggery here.
Well I wouldn't give any particular group a pass... outside of gaming the most sexist men I have met have been strongly liberal. And the one gay man I have met is massively racist. So... douchebaggery is spread through all walks of life.
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Sometimes player characters are caricatures. It's actually pretty common, and a plain view where barbarians are socially backwards would actually support this.
There's also a historical angle to consider.
Frankly it should probably more surprising that our characters don't typically behave anything like those who used to use this same type of equipment. It's a social contract conceit that some people don't seem to get.
You get sexist and racist people. Just wandering the Paizo forums will reveal that. Some of them are nasty. Some, I know, managed to convince several women to stop drinking in public and take some self defence courses.
Fortunately, they're a minority. And a minority that's slowly going the way of the dinosaurs - being slowly compressed under tons of pressure into crude oil. With a little luck we'll see less and less of such people.
On the other hand, if you really think it is a Midwest thing, come on out to California. Our current game group consists of three liberal men (one is Asian), two women (one Asian, one Hispanic), and a gay fellow (sorry, he's white). You won't get any douchebaggery here.Well I wouldn't give any particular group a pass... outside of gaming the most sexist men I have met have been strongly liberal. And the one gay man I have met is massively racist. So... douchebaggery is spread through all walks of life.
Sexist and liberal are at odds with one-another. If the man was sexist he wasn't liberal. He may have had SOME liberal thoughts. But you can't call somebody something they demonstrate themselves not to be.
And one gay dude? You've known ONE gay dude and he was racist and you think then that you have a lock on the whole tribe? Okay.
Do half-elves count? I have had several character's who didn't care for half-elves. Green-blooded half-breeds. I don't think you can have sexism with half-elves though, they are like mules right?
Paula Deen says Hi!! construction is no surprise either. Generally the less education the higher the intolerance. Not saying anyone without a degree is a racist (which is usually a symptom of ignorance), but there is a statistical correlation...Among ALL races.
it should also be noted most of the people outside my family that i'd game with are in the restaurant or construction fields, which in general are surprisingly racist and misogynistic, i had one foreman at a construction company i worked for say he'd never hire any women or black people (and this was in seattle even!)
There actually have been studies on this. The higher the education, the more the lean toward progressiveness.
Also, the better traveled. I read an article on a study a couple years back that found a similar correlation toward acceptance and progressiveness from people who had widely traveled to those who had higher education.
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On the other hand, if you really think it is a Midwest thing, come on out to California. Our current game group consists of three liberal men (one is Asian), two women (one Asian, one Hispanic), and a gay fellow (sorry, he's white). You won't get any douchebaggery here.Well I wouldn't give any particular group a pass... outside of gaming the most sexist men I have met have been strongly liberal. And the one gay man I have met is massively racist. So... douchebaggery is spread through all walks of life.
Sexist and liberal are at odds with one-another. If the man was sexist he wasn't liberal. He may have had SOME liberal thoughts. But you can't call somebody something they demonstrate themselves not to be.
And one gay dude? You've known ONE gay dude and he was racist and you think then that you have a lock on the whole tribe? Okay.
Not to derail the thread, but:
-I don't believe Aranna was trying to stereotype with her statements regarding the gay racist, but the exact opposite - that stereotypes are generalizations that are often inaccurate when applied to reality.
-"Liberal" is itself a generalized label that has come to have such a disparate political meaning that it's somewhat disingenuous to say that a person cannot be a liberal who happens to also be sexist. In fact, if you're discussing the original definition of the term 'liberal' - a liberal interpretation of the Constitution - then you could easily have a liberal sexist.
[edit]
As a case in point: I'm a gay white guy who happens to be socially liberal but who holds a number of conservative views (like support for gun ownership).
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On the other hand, if you really think it is a Midwest thing, come on out to California. Our current game group consists of three liberal men (one is Asian), two women (one Asian, one Hispanic), and a gay fellow (sorry, he's white). You won't get any douchebaggery here.Well I wouldn't give any particular group a pass... outside of gaming the most sexist men I have met have been strongly liberal. And the one gay man I have met is massively racist. So... douchebaggery is spread through all walks of life.
Sexist and liberal are at odds with one-another. If the man was sexist he wasn't liberal. He may have had SOME liberal thoughts. But you can't call somebody something they demonstrate themselves not to be.
And one gay dude? You've known ONE gay dude and he was racist and you think then that you have a lock on the whole tribe? Okay.
Yeah there just aren't very many gay people in the midwest... or they hide? Still YOU COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT. If there is one gay racist then obviously they aren't immune to racism. As for the liberal guys just watch sometime how quickly they dismiss women as simple sex objects whose opinions don't really matter. Also, there have been some very famous liberals who are legendary womanizers... I am frequently aggravated that I have to support men like THAT to get my issues heard.
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Also, there have been some very famous liberals who are legendary womanizers... I am frequently aggravated that I have to support men like THAT to get my issues heard.
John F. Kennedy anyone?
I'm from the Midwest, and I've had no bad experiences involving racism or misogyny. All my experiences have been positive on these issues.
Gender issues: Both male and female players have great, respectful relationships with other sexes. I also once played with a character who was transgender (the player was anatomically male, as far as I know)
Race: A dwarf in my party had his village destroyed by giants. There was initial hatred, but over time he has learned to respect some giants. He even met a friendly giant and tried to convince the dwarven elders not to war against all giant tribes, just the evil ones.
Sexual Situations: This doesn't come up much in my group, but when an NPC hits on someone (it's never the other way around) it often creates a humorous situation rather than a... sensual one? Erotica isn't what my groups look for when they play this game.
So, there's some positive examples from us Midwestern folk in our 20s.
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every time I see a thread like this I quietly give thanks that virtually everyone I have met through SoCal PFS and my home games have been totes amazeballs
and by quietly give thanks I mean talk to the hair doll that I made for Ross Byers
and by quietly give thanks I mean talk to the hair doll that I made for Ross Byers
This is both creepy and hilarious.
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Racism is an interesting thing in the typical D&D setting. There are so many races, first off, that are fairly biologically distinct from each other. (And the rule options lead many players to claim that humans are the best!) Then there are so many mechanical benefits, as Lincoln put it, based on race - inquisitors and rangers practically have racism as part of their primary class features! Dwarves are usually depicted as racist to a fault - hate elves, hate goblins, hate orcs, distrust pretty much anybody else.
These kinds of racism, and perhaps some others, are codified into the literature and rules of the game. The ranger that vows to see the elimination of the goblin race for what they did to his family is a common trope.
So I guess I'm curious as to what problems racism and company cause in your game. I can see some insularity, misogyny, and racism coming up as character things, especially in particular cultures (Jadwiga witches, Colonial Sargava, etc). The impact of these cultures, hardly unique among fantasy settings or the real world, can be very good to explore with mature groups that want to deal with such themes. If it comes up every game in a derogatory manner, that player has a problem. If this is constantly the case with your group, I'd echo the voices upthread and say find a new group.
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I have mostly seen issues like this in younger players and people that are fairly new to RPG's that are trying 'do it right' for whatever that means.
A lot of fantasy/sci fi novels are full of racism and sexiscm. I have often talked to someone and found out he was basing his PC's personality on someone from a novel, movie, or legend who started out racist and slowly got over it. They were actively planning to become less of a d-bag over their career.
I had to tell those people that in a novel it doesn't matter if he is ruining the other characters fun. The other characters in a novel can't 'vote him off the island' because it is a novel. It is ok to make the occasional comment about a NPC, but constantly insulting the other people in the party is not cool.
As far as how to deal with the "but its in my backstory" card. Our group just leaves them behind. "We are also playing in-character. There is no way that Morguth would continue to associate with such a socially vile person. He won't attack anyone because he is a kind person, but neither is he going to spend every waking hour defending such a person."
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I think there's a combination of different reasons.
We live in a sexist, racist society and most people in privilege are to some degree sexist or racist (even if they're decent people!). However, explicit racism and misogyny is frowned upon, and so many use cultural expressions to live out their sexism and racism where they're harder to criticize (see racist/sexist jokes, music, videos etc).
By playing a sexist (or racist, homophobic, transphobic or whatever) character, the player can do all kinds of shit without facing any real repercussions and with only a very low risk of facing social repercussions (and will invariably defend their actions as "but it's the character who's an ass!"). This isn't unique to roleplayers, though the roleplaying community is more privileged (and thus more likely to use racism and sexism to kick downwards) than society at large.
But the same process is true in a lot of other cultural forms too - look at all misogynistic and racist characters and portrayals in popular TV shows, where the creator can always go on the defense with "but it's the character who's sexist/chooses to act in a stereotypical way!", completely ignoring that the creator themself created the character and made all the choices for it.
This isn't new in RPGs, though I think it may have been increased by the extremely toxic environment of large parts of the modern computer/video gaming community. With new players coming to P&P RPG's from video games, they may bring that culture with them, making an occacional issue into a more common one.
Of course, for you specifically, it may also have been bad luck in meeting above average of bad players.
Our solution at our table is simply not to allow it except in very very small doses. Any player character that is ideologically racist against PC races (or human races!) or sexist will not be allowed, ideologically racist or sexist NPC characters are evil etc.
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in my weekday group.
my Plushie bard "Zipper" as the party Gadgeteer named her/it, is an equal opportunity homicidal maniac, whom especially hates old gnomes.
Zipper has to roll a DC 30 will save to resist the urge to kill old gnomes, DC 40 if the old gnome is male.
"Zipper hate Gnomes, Zipper think gnomes are Epitome of Evil, Zipper think gnomes should be extinct, Zipper kill every last Gnome Zipper see. Zipper see no difference between Halfling, Gnome or Moogle. Zipper see 3 confused species of Gnome whom deserve torture in the abyss for their sins."
and Zipper, is a chaotic evil Gnomicidal Plush doll animated by the soul of a slain chaotic evil homicidal angel.
the Homicidal Maniac Flaw was chosen for the 2 extra feats and because a Plushie that hated gnomes, sounded so fun.
Zipper is more Androgynistic, but racist against Gnomes.
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I am going to take what is probably an extremely unpopular view and state racism and mysogony (IN GAME) is totally based on the setting and may be appropriate depending on that setting.
While both are, of course, abhorent and signs of ultimate ignorance in a person in REAL LIFE, in the game setting they may be appropriate. Again, MAY, not always. I know that The Forgotten Realms setting for example went to lengths to state that the difference in gender roles were much less in that world. While there were areas that had women in certain roles and men in others that could bring about some sort of gender bias they were nowhere as strong as we usually see in real society.
That said, if enough folks are doing it in your area that is has become overtly offensive then by all means say something, calmly and reasonably, to them out of game and let them know why the repetition of these ignorant views is offensive and socially destructive, even when portrayed 'in character'.
But my one big point about racism in RPGS: It is not bad. There ARE actual different races in the worlds of RPG's. Recognizing that elves are different from dwarves are different from humans, etc is just plain fact, for good or ill. Generalizations and stereotyping are more likely to happen in a world with provable and undeniable racial differences than in our world.
Elves ARE faster and smarter than most men. Orcs ARE stronger and more violent than other races. Etc. In the setting of a fantasy RPG, racism is fact. To NOT be a racist on some level would be disengenuous to the setting and the day to day reality of that world.
As opposed to the real world where we are all human beings, with minor differences of one sort or another to be sure, but all human.
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Racism? I find it totally okay in my games. You literally hate halflings, goblins, etc? Sure. However, expect ones alignment to reflect treating of other races. Just cause it.s your upbringing to hate humans doesn't mean I'm not going to change your sheet to evil when you burn down a human orphanage. And try that shit in party without the other player's ooc consent? We're gonna have a talk then too.
Sexism though? Not particularly okay with me in any degree, course I have a lot of LGBT friends so I'm admittedly biased. I would probably specifically challenge them with more gender-equal characters specifically to mess with them tho.
I think it also depends on the group you are playing with. Some groups are okay with handling it. The game I'm running is a psuedo-Caribbean Kingmaker game, with a history of war and slavery between the natives and the colonists. The group I'm in has an elf alchemist that utterly hates drow. And the tactician has a sort of "White Man's Burden" attitude with some of the natives. But so far, the group has been handling it really well. I know the setting wouldn't really be for everyone and if I ever ran the game with strangers, I'd downplay many of those aspects I listed unless people are okay with it. And even with this group, I avoid things like slurs and such because even I don't really want to get into that in my games.
When ever I see a thread like this I give thanks for the friends I have. I have never had to deal with this kind of d-bag character. I know I am blessed, but still, thanks for reminding me.
I think there's a degree of separation here that can be hard to note. I agree with Gilfalas that in many instances, racism (or perhaps more accurately 'speciesism') is built into the game.
But at some point, some people could easily stray across the line of "playing the character" as a speciesist, and instead begin projecting the player's personal racism into the game, while attempting to justify it by saying that it's just "playing the character".
Paula Deen says Hi!! construction is no surprise either. Generally the less education the higher the intolerance. Not saying anyone without a degree is a racist (which is usually a symptom of ignorance), but there is a statistical correlation...Among ALL races.
it should also be noted most of the people outside my family that i'd game with are in the restaurant or construction fields, which in general are surprisingly racist and misogynistic, i had one foreman at a construction company i worked for say he'd never hire any women or black people (and this was in seattle even!)
you would not believe how many people in construction have college degrees, most are useless to the region or field they are currently in but most in construction on their breaks sit around comparing degrees (especially in seattle, where i don't live anymore for family reasons, *sigh!*)
i'm glad to hear its not the norm tho:)
it surprised me a bit because i live in a liberal-ish city, tho its still a one horse cowtown compared to seattle and the west coast:)
i don't mind fictional racism towards say orcs or dwarves, but when the first thing a player says is "what country allows me to own slaves?, ok i'm from there" or "i cant be in a party with any dwarves cause i'll kill them" thats when its not okay for me.
i dont mind evil PCs as long as they work with the group.
I've been playing and running roleplaying games, primarily in the Midwest, for over twenty years. I've played and GMed at home, in stores, and at both small and large conventions, across a myriad of game systems. Of the thousands of people I've played with, I can't recall a single time that a player has, "[decided] that their character should be a racist misogynistic d-bag, and then use the 'but its in my backstory' card."
That's not to say I have never seen any bad behavior at a gaming table. I've seen subtle, probably unintentional, racism. One might even accuse me of it currently, as I happen to be a white guy playing a Mwangi barbarian in Skull & Shackles. I don't consciously apply any modern American prejudices to my black character, but that doesn't mean I haven't unknowingly transgressed in some way. More often than I've seen racism at a gaming table, I've seen it written into published game systems. But it can be difficult to discern the difference between writing racism into a game, and addressing the issue of racism in a game.
I have seen a fair amount of misogyny crop up, but never planned or systematic misogyny. It's usually an off-color comment or joke in response to an in-game situation, and I haven't seen it any more frequently in games than in non-gaming conversation. Again, it can be difficult to tell the difference between in-game misogyny and and addressing misogyny in game. For example, is it offensive for prostitution to exist in a game? The feminist community is divided on whether prostitution is necessarily misogynist or just conditionally so, and I don't expect the gaming community to agree on a single answer to that dilemma either.
Of the offenses you listed, probably the most common I've seen is some inappropriate bawdiness. I haven't found gaming tables to be particularly bawdy, perhaps more so than staff meetings at work, and less so than your average bar. However, some groups to get quite raunchy, often the ones with female members. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with some bawdiness if it's not offensive, and every group needs to determine its mores in that arena.
I'm curious just how prevalent you've seen this bad behavior to be? Also, when you attribute it to younger players, what ages are you talking about?
it seems like it happens a lot in RPGs where people decide that their character should be a racist misogynistic d-bag, and then use the "but its in my backstory" card when i ask them about it
why does every Barbarian or other fringe type PC have to be like that?
i'm all for coming up with compelling backstories, it makes my job easier. racism and misogyny is not compelling, its just offensive and tends to put gamers in a bad mood when the Barbarian wont listen to the wizard PC because "she's a southern wench"my question is, is this a recurring problem with gamers as a whole or just in the midwest?
do gamers use their characters to act out their deep down racism and sexism, cause it kinda seems that way from my seat.and thats really, really disappointing because in my youth it seemed that gamers were a more liberal forward thinking bunch then the general populace.
do woman gamers run into this a lot, does it turn them off from gaming?
how as a GM do you deal with this?
Now I'm not defending it, but you seem to be forgetting the setting here and what it is based off of. Think back to even in the early 1900's in the US women didn't even have the right to vote, in the 1860's there were slaves here. There are still countries where women have little to no rights at all and have to cover their faces while out in public or risk being stoned. Think back to the 1940's and WWII, you have complete genocide going on.
Now look at Golarion. It's based off of medieval fantasy with countries like Cheliax having slaves. There are other cultures who believe that women are below men in society and then you put on top of that there are different humanoids who distrust and outright dislike each other because of past transgressions, slights, or even wars.
In short, this isn't about the age of the player but the setting and the character they wish to play. I have no problem if a character is a xenophopic dwarf who doesn't trust other races. It gives more opportunities for role playing in social situations where that dwarf has to try to get information out of an elf he can barely tolerate and it is showing on the expression upon his bearded face.
all in college, in construction only the younger summer help game :) the older guys just drink themselves silly after work;) and its only been 4 people i've had issues with, and fairly recently (in the last 3 months or so) the thing s i took a 17 year hiatus from gaming and just got back into gaming with people other then my immediate family (i've been using 3.5 ed then pathfinder for only 4 years now, before that it was 1st edition, 17 years ago!)
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There's one thing about playing a racist, sexist character -- if you are not racist and sexist yourself, you will need to establish a context for these actions. If you genuinely consider racism and sexism to be flaws, then you need to treat them as flaws. (If you don't consider them to be flaws, then you are yourself being racist and sexist by enabling racism and sexism.) That means sexism and racism should hurt your character. Your arrogant elf who reflexively snobs it up around humans should piss them off and lose out on things as a result. Your sexist barbarian who turns his nose up at armor and weapons made by a lady smith should end up with inferior weapons made by a less skilled, but male, smith. The GM should cooperate in this as well -- make sure that sexism and racism has consequences IC. And you'll need to make sure that you make it very clear, especially if there are women or minorities of any sort in your group, that you are roleplaying this character's flaw and do not consider it a good action.
"Well, GM, I'm going to have to roleplay my character's odious racism against all non-dwarves here and refuse to take a room with the rest of the party. Guess I'll have to sleep in the crappy room at the end of the hall for an extra 10 gp per night." -- Good RP of racism
"Who's the village smith?" "Mary Todd." "Hmm. My character has a 'sexist' flaw. Is there another smith?" "No." "Does she have an assistant or apprentice?" "Nope." "Alright.. *sigh* my male chauvinist barbarian will refuse the services of this smith as she clearly can't do any proper armor repair, and will muddle along with his halfway-broken shield until he finds a male smith to repair it." -- genuine consequences for sexism.
I am going to take what is probably an extremely unpopular view and state racism and mysogony (IN GAME) is totally based on the setting and may be appropriate depending on that setting.I think Gilfalas raises a good point here. Especially in a mature group, it strikes me that certain kinds of prejudice are going to be inherent in the setting, and good RPers are going to reflect that.
It seems entirely appropriate, for example, that Andoren characters in a
Pathfinder setting are going to be incredibly hostile toward the Asmodeus-worshipping Chelaxians, and your average dwarf is going to have a very low opinion of orcs.I think good, mature gaming groups can distinguish between what's "good" RP -- a dwarf who growls out something about not trusting goblins or an Andoren who makes it clear he's keeping a very close eye on that Chelaxian noble NPC -- and "bad" RP, where, for example, players use their characters' "prejudices" as proxies to pick on each other, or where (and I've heard of this happening) misogynistic GMs will force female players into uncomfortable roles.
And Zipper hates Gnomes because an old gnome spilled a smalll single drop bacon grease stain on her perfect plush angelic figure and she had to clean it off which a bunch of bleach and peroxide. so because the gnome "Defiled her angelic form" she vowed to "murder every gnome she can."
it seems like it happens a lot in RPGs where people decide that their character should be a racist misogynistic d-bag, and then use the "but its in my backstory" card when i ask them about it
why does every Barbarian or other fringe type PC have to be like that?
i'm all for coming up with compelling backstories, it makes my job easier. racism and misogyny is not compelling, its just offensive and tends to put gamers in a bad mood when the Barbarian wont listen to the wizard PC because "she's a southern wench"my question is, is this a recurring problem with gamers as a whole or just in the midwest?
do gamers use their characters to act out their deep down racism and sexism, cause it kinda seems that way from my seat.and thats really, really disappointing because in my youth it seemed that gamers were a more liberal forward thinking bunch then the general populace.
do woman gamers run into this a lot, does it turn them off from gaming?
how as a GM do you deal with this?
Now I'm not defending it, but you seem to be forgetting the setting here and what it is based off of. Think back to even in the early 1900's in the US women didn't even have the right to vote, in the 1860's there were slaves here. There are still countries where women have little to no rights at all and have to cover their faces while out in public or risk being stoned. Think back to the 1940's and WWII, you have complete genocide going on.
Now look at Golarion. It's based off of medieval fantasy with countries like Cheliax having slaves. There are other cultures who believe that women are below men in society and then you put on top of that there are different humanoids who distrust and outright dislike each other because of past transgressions, slights, or even wars.
In short, this isn't about the age of the player but the setting and the character they wish to play. I have no problem if a character is a xenophopic dwarf who doesn't trust other races. It gives more opportunities...
i have lots of experience with history, just because the game is set in olden times (take your pick Golarion has them all!) doesn't mean people have to act like they did then, its a game not 1468 (or any other year you pick).
i get your point, well said, its just that Pathfinder isn't meant to be a HISTORICAL game, its a FANTASY game based on certain parts of history and just because the House of Thrune owns slave or Absalom condones it doesn't make it right
Elves ARE faster and smarter than most men. Orcs ARE stronger and more violent than other races. Etc. In the setting of a fantasy RPG, racism is fact. To NOT be a racist on some level would be disengenuous to the setting and the day to day reality of that world.Technically that's not being racist, that's being a speceist!
I stand corrected then. We don't have different species of intelligent humanoids in the real world and the 30 or so years of gaming I have done where all the races were called races and not species is probably what threw me. :)
Sexism is unneeded and can be stamped out, although a funny pickup line here or there if in character (EX, Cleric of the drunken god, jack sparrow esque pirate) same with a female character thinking "Stupid men" if in character (Amazon or highly intelligent wizard).
Racism on the other hand is both flavorful and crunch.
Dwarves hate goblins/elves but that doesn't mean they loath them beyond all reason.
Say I decide my Gnome bard is racist against halflings (THEY ARE JUST GNOMES IN DENIAL!) and sings about it there should be nothing wrong about that and it should be funny.
If the in game racism isn't funny you should probably not be doing it (Unless it's a crunch ability like the dwarven/goblin torrid love to hate relationship.)
I disagree with this greatly. Why is one form of hatred inherently more acceptable in a game than the other? That's actually something that bothers me a lot, how people think it's okay to be racist in a game because hey, it's half-orcs and half-orcs aren't real! Don't like that one bit.
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Just one thing: The whole "it makes sense in the setting" is kind of a weak "defense" - because the group chooses what setting to play in. While many fantasy settings are somewhat based on medieval Europe, a lot of things are ignored or changed in other aspects so there's nothing forcing sexism/racism to be a thing in them either. And even if it is, that doesn't mean it's something protagonists have to take part in. Slavery, rape and killing off children was common and accepted throughout a large part of medieval Europe, that doesn't mean it's something the protagonists of a fantasy story should take part in.
And if it's a case of verisimillitude, I must say that if we as a community has no issue with imagining a world where flying lizards breath fire and squidfaced aliens control our minds, but can't imagine a world with no structural oppression of women and racial minorities, then that says a lot about what kind of world we live in.