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Howdy everyone.
Today I was pondering on a character. I have a priest type I am developing on. My question is I wanted to put a title or a rank for the priest character I am focusing on. Like for example: sister or mother for the female, but male are like baron or deacon. I wanted to create a list of titles or ranks as like I was leveling a character. I was wondering anyone out there can help me with this question.
military has there ranks titles. how do I make one for a female going up in the priest ranks/titles?
even this quest question for rogues types?
Well, just look at denominations that don't prohibit women from positions in the church. For many of them, the title is the same; a female bishop is still a bishop, ect. For ones that vary Deaconess for deacon and Priestess for priest, but those are the only ones I can think of that have separate titles.
As for rogues, I don't see much for titles/ranks, due to the fact that ranks and titles are mainly for a level of notability that rogue types would often try to avoid. Spy-type rogues might have military titles, but due to the necessities of spying, they would largely be secret during their time of active service.
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Well, just look at denominations that don't prohibit women from positions in the church. For many of them, the title is the same; a female bishop is still a bishop, ect. For ones that vary Deaconess for deacon and Priestess for priest, but those are the only ones I can think of that have separate titles.
As for rogues, I don't see much for titles/ranks, due to the fact that ranks and titles are mainly for a level of notability that rogue types would often try to avoid. Spy-type rogues might have military titles, but due to the necessities of spying, they would largely be secret during their time of active service.
the rogue part was use for an idea, but I do understand what you mean that rogue have no honor.
I thought the females had a whole different list vs. the Males.
so, if the female reach Pop title?
Well, to my knowledge the term pope only occurs in the catholic (and I think some, but not all of the Orthodox churches), so there is only a male title, since in catholic and orthodox faiths only men may become preists, and thus pope. Most protestant denominations have no such rank of equivalence, being that the pope was one of the many points of contention during the reformation, and prior.
As such, you could probably use Pope as a unisex title, or, what would probably work better is to differentiate the higher titles between different faiths. So the leader of one god's faith might have a separate title from the leader of another faith.
It'd still be Pope.
The only times it'd different, as far as I know, would be that it would be Deaconess vs Deacon, Priestess vs Priest (as already mentioned) and then the honorific would change from Father X to Mother Y.
Rogues would depend on their job. Your usual thiefly sort could use the titles from the Thieves' Guild in the Elder Scrolls (Oblivion specifically), perhaps.
From least to greatest: Pickpocket, Footpad, Bandit, Prowler, Cat Burglar, Shadowfoot, Master Thief, Gray Fox.
Though perhaps a trimming of those would be better, to something like: Pickpocket, Prowler, Shadowfoot, Master Thief, one title gained every 5 levels, since "Footpad", "Bandit", and "Cat Burglar" (to a lesser extent) have entirely negative connotations, and Gray Fox is entirely setting specific and in fact only ever refers to a specific person, so that's out too.
For the blade for hire, the Dark Brotherhood from the same game could also be inspiration.
From least to greatest: Murderer, Slayer, Eliminator, Assassin, Executioner, Silencer, Speaker, Listener.
My personal picks to whittle it down to 4 would be: Slayer, Eliminator, Assassin, Silencer.
Eliminating Murderer because it evokes less "assassin for hire" and more "stabbed a dude in the street, whoops", Executioner because it sounds too much like legitimate work, and Speaker/Listener because they're more religious titles than anything in context (which reminds me I should do a conversion of Sithis for Pathfinder, he seems like he'd be a great fit).
Cleric: Deacon, Priest, Bishop, Cardinal, Pope? (Really depends on the church set up).
Rogue: Urchin, Scoundrel, Expert, Shadow, Grand Master (with a possible stop at Master)
Assassins: Thug, Cutthroat, Pro, Master, Grand Master
Melee: soldier/ squire, sergeant/ Armiger, lieutenant/ knight, captain/ knight CPT, commander/ knight CDR, general
Spell casters: novice, apprentice, journeyman, master, grand master
After that specific titles are given as an honorific or nickname. Introduce yourself as such (example): (prefix like Lord/ Lady/ Ser/ Brother/ Sister) The Lord Soandso Huff'nPuff, (honorific) Champion of Stonebridge, (rank) Knight Commander of (order/ organization) the Steel Rose.
Another way to think about it is giving titles when the character gains levels or even new spell levels, so they can be tested to prove/earn their title. Therefore clerics would have 9 titles, one for each spell level.
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Roman Military Ranks
Titles
Japanese Honorifics for Tian
Royal and Noble Styles
Other styles of address
These are just some of the sources I could come up with relatively quickly. There are a lot to comb through, and you could always just research a civilization society which matches the culture of the one you're trying to emulate to find a title that matches the style.
Additionally, regarding cleric titles, you might consider something vicar for your highest cleric, or maybe something along the lines of Great Mother/Father.
I am partial to some of the existing Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox titles, personally: bishop, metropolitan, deacon, cantor (a bit of a stretch here), patriarch, pope, vicar and the like. Also, you might look to other fantasy orders: Dune's Bene Gesserit, the Sisterhood of the Light in Sword of Truth, and I'm sure there is a very good one in Stranger in a Strange Land.
For the rogues you could develop a guild specific ranking using a theives' cant style code.
An initiate might be a finger, a member a hand, an elder an arm, the master the head, etc.
Or a stem, a leaf, a petal, a thorn and the rose.
Or a penny, a dime, a dollar, a diamond, the bank.
The list could go on.
As for the church, you could use familial titles: daughter/son, brother/sister, father/mother, grand father/mother or father/mother superior, patriarch/matriarch.
Or go catholic with deacon, priest, monsignoir, arch deacon, bishop, arch bishop, cardinal, pope.
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Another way to think about it is giving titles when the character gains levels or even new spell levels, so they can be tested to prove/earn their title. Therefore clerics would have 9 titles, one for each spell level.
This is a really good idea for how to set up the leveling for titles. We should put more emphasis on this idea.
The equivalent to pope in some orthodox churches is Patriarch; so, for women, you could use Matriarch. They do that in the Emperor of the Fading Suns universe.
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Here is a beta test list. Please post your inputs. Please give if changes that would sound better. keep in mind we want 9 titles/ranks for following the Caster Levels.
Cleric Religion Titles/Ranks
Good Alignment Path:
Male:
2. Brother,
3. Father,
4. Priest,
5. Monastic,
6. Deacon,
7. Bishop,
8. Patriarch,
9. Cardinal
Female:
2. Sister,
3. Mother,
4. Priestess,
5. Monastic,
6. Deaconess,
7. Bishop,
8. Patriarch,
9. Cardinal
Evil Alignment Path:
Male:
2. Brother,
3. Father,
4. Arch-Priest,
5. Arch-Monastic,
6. Arch-Deacon,
7. Arch-Bishop,
8. Arch-Patriarch,
9. Arch-Cardinal
Female:
2. Sister,
3. Mother,
4. Arch-Priestess,
5. Arch-Monastic,
6. Arch-Deaconess,
7. Arch-Bishop,
8. Arch-Patriarch,
9. Arch-Cardinal
I like High Priest / Voice of [Deity] for top ranks.
For the female version you should probably replace Patriarch with Matriarch.
I also don't think the good and evil versions should be so similar, for example, putting Arch in front of it doesn't really work. An Arch-soemthing. For example an Archbishop is simply a bishop of higher rank than a regular bishop so if you're going to use Archbishop you should probably have regular bishops, but it is useful for determining good or evil.
Further, most Clerical orders dedicated to a god would probably have titles/ranks that somehow related to the tenets of their faith and their god.
For example, Torag (Lawful Good God of the Forge (and other things), would probably have clerics that have titles that involve something about smithing (which is also fitting since Torag's temples are also working smithies).
Well, to my knowledge the term pope only occurs in the catholic (and I think some, but not all of the Orthodox churches), so there is only a male title, since in catholic and orthodox faiths only men may become preists, and thus pope. Most protestant denominations have no such rank of equivalence, being that the pope was one of the many points of contention during the reformation, and prior.
As such, you could probably use Pope as a unisex title, or, what would probably work better is to differentiate the higher titles between different faiths. So the leader of one god's faith might have a separate title from the leader of another faith.
For the Orthadox Churches the leader is called the Patriarch. So I imagine a female leader if that title was used would be a Matriarch.
For the Orthadox Churches the leader is called the Patriarch. So I imagine a female leader if that title was used would be a Matriarch.Well, to my knowledge the term pope only occurs in the catholic (and I think some, but not all of the Orthodox churches), so there is only a male title, since in catholic and orthodox faiths only men may become preists, and thus pope. Most protestant denominations have no such rank of equivalence, being that the pope was one of the many points of contention during the reformation, and prior.
As such, you could probably use Pope as a unisex title, or, what would probably work better is to differentiate the higher titles between different faiths. So the leader of one god's faith might have a separate title from the leader of another faith.
For most orthodox churches, yes, but I'm pretty sure I remember at least one or two of them use the title of pope and patriarch interchangeably.
For most orthodox churches, yes, but I'm pretty sure I remember at least one or two of them use the title of pope and patriarch interchangeably.For the Orthadox Churches the leader is called the Patriarch. So I imagine a female leader if that title was used would be a Matriarch.Well, to my knowledge the term pope only occurs in the catholic (and I think some, but not all of the Orthodox churches), so there is only a male title, since in catholic and orthodox faiths only men may become preists, and thus pope. Most protestant denominations have no such rank of equivalence, being that the pope was one of the many points of contention during the reformation, and prior.
As such, you could probably use Pope as a unisex title, or, what would probably work better is to differentiate the higher titles between different faiths. So the leader of one god's faith might have a separate title from the leader of another faith.
Well I am part of the Greek Orthadox Church and I have never heard of, nor can I imagine the Patriarch being refered to as the Pope. There is a deliberate differentiation there revolving around the East West Schism of the Christian church. It is possible some of the other Orthadox churches use that term but I doubt it.
Feel free to utilize prefixes, in order to reuse basic titles
0. Brother - Sister
1. Father - Mother
2. Deacon - Deaconess
3. Priest - Priestess
4. Archdeacon - Archdeaconess
5. High Priest - High Priestess
6. Bishop,
7. Archbishop,
8. Patriarch - Matriarch
9. Cardinal
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Feel free to utilize prefixes, in order to reuse basic titles
0. Brother - Sister
1. Father - Mother
2. Deacon - Deaconess
3. Priest - Priestess
4. Archdeacon - Archdeaconess
5. High Priest - High Priestess
6. Bishop,
7. Archbishop,
8. Patriarch - Matriarch
9. Cardinal
ok, now if we can focus more to the evil side, so there is a different between good and evil.
What you have here works for the good side.
As such, you could probably use Pope as a unisex title, or, what would probably work better is to differentiate the higher titles between different faiths. So the leader of one god's faith might have a separate title from the leader of another faith.
In fact, there is historical precedent for using pope as a unisex title. Also, it's not exclusively a catholic title. The discordians also use it (for pretty much everybody).
ok, now if we can focus more to the evil side, so there is a different between good and evil.
What you have here works for the good side.
And why would the evil side have to be different? They think they are right. Using the same titles would lead to confusion of the secular and to undermine the credibility of the good side. Aren't those evil's ways?
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And why would the evil side have to be different? They think they are right. Using the same titles would lead to confusion of the secular and to undermine the credibility of the good side. Aren't those evil's ways?ok, now if we can focus more to the evil side, so there is a different between good and evil.
What you have here works for the good side.
I see your point. I think I was making it hard than what it is.
My problem is that you are tying it to level. I like that you can buy titles (with benefits) in ultimate campaign.
For organizations they have the generic Initiate, Officer, Commander, and High Commander. I know these names would change from org to org but it makes sense that lower level person who bucks for it can get these titles before level 20 who has never bothered with politics.
Also some gods would not have titles. Cayden comes to mind.
Lastly class should not determine you title but your role in the organization. A fighter can do well in a thieves guilds and a sorc or magus could run a wizards guild. Heck even a fighter could with enough corruption or other weirdness. Maybe none of the actual caster want the job so the can all focus on magic and put some poor schmuck in charge.
+1
The only churches to have spell level based titles would have lawful deities. Neutral deities would have titles but many exceptions. Chaotic deities wouldn't support titles.
Non-spell casters would behave like real life, which is purchasing titles and commissions. And functional titles.
cheers
All of this assumes a good hierarchy in the faith you're building titles for. What about Chaotic based deities like Desna, Cayden Cailean, Lamashta or Calistria? None of these kinds of deities, IMO seem like the types to have large, interconnected church-systems to necessitate such titles.
The whole reason to have titles is to determine who is more powerful than who in a group. This could just as easily be accomplished by a thump on the noggin.
As Mathius points out there are game mechanics for honorary titles that may have reward but aren't tied in any way to the level or power of the PC/NPC. In my homebrew game I've used the title of "Knight" in the Andoran sense; any person who fights on the side of Overking Thane and the union of the Dunevain (Viking-like tribes and clans who've made alliances w/one another and the Overking).
I've also just thrown out worthless, made-up titles for roleplay purposes. I had a witch as the priestess of a Gozreh sect called the Twining Descent. She was known as Mother Mylvex. Another time I had a ranger as a knight belonging to an monk's order - the order of St. Erd which is more like the old European orders where they are just really devout clerics who live outside of society and support knights. Anyway, Brother Lupinov turned out to be a werewolf (go figure).
You could also create titles based on the faith itself, just as Dr C. M. suggested with guilds up-thread. I could imagine that the priests and clergy of Torag for example would want to be Craftsman, Master Craftsman, Forge Father, etc while the clergy of Abadar might be Accountant, Exchequor, Chancelor.
You might even take this a step further. Say for example you had a sect of Abadar which was particularly militant. They didn't focus so much on his aspect as a banker but rather on the broader tenets of civilization and defense. This sect then is worshipped by masons, judges and guards-folk. The sect trains these people in their chosen vocation and thus enriches the civilization in which it takes part. Titles in this division may be more in line with their dogma, and therefore might differ from the norm that you've established elsewhere in the campaign. The lay members are merely called the Pillars; attendant clergy might be Arches; the practicing preachers are the Walls; church enforcers are called the Wardens; inquisitors are known as Judges and the high-pontiffs of the sect are known as Merlons (as in the stone blocks on top of a castle wall that protect archers).
The point is: there may not be one hard and fast list of acceptable titles for any occasion.