Owlbear Animal Companion


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Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Double dipping companions cannot possibly be intended. I would advise people to not try it. :)

evan without the 2 feat cheese its a lvl 12 at 8 without items.

the feats are pfs legal, and call out the stacking. (faiths and philosophies).

but if you really want people to frar your owlbear, i can make things a lot worse....

Dark Archive

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Please, go ahead! Things that are shown to be overpowered on the forums tend to be adjudicated far sooner. If you are doing this as a theoretical build to show developers where errata may be necessary, I'm all for it. If, on the other hand, you are simply trying to beat a scenario solely using an animal companion, I would advise you to reassess your priorities.

I'm sure there are many who would agree with me that those feats do not stack. Fair warning to someone who may play at my table: don't try it.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Name Violation, you identify yourself in your profile as "chaotic jerk". Do us a favor, and please don't make an overpowering build, just to run rough-shod over the rest of your party. You've got a Level 17 pet? (That's 14 HD, +10 AC, Strength 24, etc...) Stay away from my table; you're not welcome.

If you are going to be a chaotic jerk, do so elsewhere. You "can make things a lot worse"? Why the hell would you want to?


Ehh. A few posts is hardly reasons to start drawing lines in the sand.

I am not sure if you have a history with this guy, but people are different online then when in person.

Maybe he is just poiting out possibilities, or maybe he has this beast in the adventure and sits back usign him when the party is int he trouble.

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Chris Mortika wrote:

Name Violation, you identify yourself in your profile as "chaotic jerk". Do us a favor, and please don't make an overpowering build, just to run rough-shod over the rest of your party. You've got a Level 17 pet? (That's 14 HD, +10 AC, Strength 24, etc...) Stay away from my table; you're not welcome.

If you are going to be a chaotic jerk, do so elsewhere. You "can make things a lot worse"? Why the hell would you want to?

i'm just pointing out the options i have with the tools ive been given.

hell, i havent even mentioned that with half elf you could also do the paragon surge grater eldritch bloodline trick and cast every oracle, cleric, wizard and sorc spell in addition to the epic pet.

why a problem with a pet, especially when im using legal options ive ben presented.

Do you ban smart people from playing wizards or witches that 1 shot most encounters?

also, for pfs, i believe you can just declare "hey, you, you cant play here". you can opt not to run a table, but you cant turn away a legal build, no matter how much you dont like it.

I'm not asking that people like my ideas, but they do work

Dark Archive

Well actually, they don't. Or at least they don't in this case. If you are picking up Animal Ally, you're a level 5 character who does not yet have an animal companion. If you then take your oracle levels, then the levels will stack, but likely only up to your maximum character level. Furthermore, Animal Ally does not even allow you to take a bear companion, so it's moot for an owlbear.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Name Violation wrote:

Hell, i havent even mentioned that with half elf you could also do the paragon surge grater eldritch bloodline trick and cast every oracle, cleric, wizard and sorc spell in addition to the epic pet.

I'm not asking that people like my ideas, but they do work

Care to walk me through that?

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Chris Mortika wrote:
Name Violation wrote:

Hell, i havent even mentioned that with half elf you could also do the paragon surge grater eldritch bloodline trick and cast every oracle, cleric, wizard and sorc spell in addition to the epic pet.

I'm not asking that people like my ideas, but they do work

Care to walk me through that?

paragon surge is a 3rd level spell, gives you a feat.

take the feat to learn a spell ( forget name of top of my head) that will give you any cleric spell you need

take skill focus any know and grab Eldritch heritage arcane bloodline.

if you paragon surge improved eldritch bloodline ( doable at 11) you learn any 2 wizard/ sorcerer spells. they get added to your list.

cast those spells ( spontaneous caster ftw)

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Name Violation wrote:
wait to take revelation until 7 (can still have access via ring of revelation or armor that does same thing). take animal ally (and nature soul pre req). animal companion of level - 3. you double dip levels.

I think the intention of that last line in the feat is that it stacks in the same way multi-classing as two classes that get animal companions stacks and is not meant to let you double dip in you companion's level.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

So, let me understand you here.

Half-elf; 11th level; at least 15 Charisma.

Feats: Skill focus: [some knowledge] (bonus as a half-elf), and Eldritch heritage. Choose the arcane bloodline, and take a familiar, yes?

Use the spell paragon surge to learn the 9th-level arcane bloodline power, which gives you one sorc / wizard spell (levels 1-4) that you add to your Spells Known, for 11 minutes.

I don't see how that gives you two spells.

I don't see how that gives you "every cleric spell". I don't see how that provides any wizard spells over 4th level.

Dark Archive

Of course the easy interpretation here is that when you paragon surge Improved Eldritch Heritage for the Arcane Bloodline, you get the same spells that you always get. Write them down on your character sheet, and that's what you will get every time you cast it. Barring retraining, of course.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Of course the easy interpretation here is that when you paragon surge Improved Eldritch Heritage for the Arcane Bloodline, you get the same spells that you always get. Write them down on your character sheet, and that's what you will get every time you cast it. Barring retraining, of course.

That skirts close to 'screwing with the player' to some, Adam. (Me included). He's using resources and a corner case (must be half elf) to pull the trick off.

Dark Archive

expanded arcana is the one that lets you get cleric spells. remember the cha isn't a problem on an oracle

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Matthew Morris wrote:
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Of course the easy interpretation here is that when you paragon surge Improved Eldritch Heritage for the Arcane Bloodline, you get the same spells that you always get. Write them down on your character sheet, and that's what you will get every time you cast it. Barring retraining, of course.
That skirts close to 'screwing with the player' to some, Adam. (Me included). He's using resources and a corner case (must be half elf) to pull the trick off.

So you believe then that one of the intents of paragon surge is to be able to freely cast any spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list as an oracle? Or is it more reasonable to assume that a choice that is made stays made.

I would use the same interpretation for an arcane sorcerer who uses a robe of arcane heritage. If a level 8 arcane sorcerer puts one on, he can choose a spell to learn from the level 9 arcane ability. Do you think it is reasonable to assume that he could take off the robe, put it back on, and make use of a different spell?

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Name Violation wrote:


why a problem with a pet, especially when im using legal options ive ben presented.

Do you ban smart people from playing wizards or witches that 1 shot most encounters?

also, for pfs, i believe you can just declare "hey, you, you cant play here". you can opt not to run a table, but you cant turn away a legal build, no matter how much you dont like it.

I don't have a problem with "a pet". I have a problem with someone arguing against the spirit of the rules to claim that his 8th-level PC a the animal companion that belongs to a 17th-level druid.

I don't ban anybody for any legal build. (No, really; I'm the GM who likes Tetori monks / gunslingers / Zen archers / etc. at the table.) But I have other players too, and I'm not keen to see their session run off the road by somebody trying to break Pathfinder or exploit rules cruft to wreck a game session.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

So you believe then that one of the intents of paragon surge is to be able to freely cast any spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list as an oracle? Or is it more reasonable to assume that a choice that is made stays made.

I would use the same interpretation for an arcane sorcerer who uses a robe of arcane heritage. If a level 8 arcane sorcerer puts one on, he can choose a spell to learn from the level 9 arcane ability. Do you think it is reasonable to assume that he could take off the robe, put it back on, and make use of a different spell?

Honestly? Yes. If he paragon surged to grab EWP "Weapon the fighter just dropped." or any other such feat, would you limit him to never select the weapon?

If the level 5 sorcerer wants to spend 16,000 GP to, for at most 24 scenarios, play 'pick a spell' and the player has the addiitonal resources to do it, so be it. I find it much more fair than to read into the rules a limiting factor. To start, the player needs feats, a specific race/class combo, and a specific additional resource to do it. Round to take it off, round to put it on, round to activate (for the robe) or a third level spell.

(Aside, I think Paizo needs to look again at the 24 hour attunement rule, but it's not an issue of RAW.

Dark Archive

if I did it, it'd be the nuclear option. when stuff gets crazy, it's nice to have

Dark Archive

Matthew Morris wrote:
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

So you believe then that one of the intents of paragon surge is to be able to freely cast any spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list as an oracle? Or is it more reasonable to assume that a choice that is made stays made.

I would use the same interpretation for an arcane sorcerer who uses a robe of arcane heritage. If a level 8 arcane sorcerer puts one on, he can choose a spell to learn from the level 9 arcane ability. Do you think it is reasonable to assume that he could take off the robe, put it back on, and make use of a different spell?

Honestly? Yes. If he paragon surged to grab EWP "Weapon the fighter just dropped." or any other such feat, would you limit him to never select the weapon?

If the level 5 sorcerer wants to spend 16,000 GP to, for at most 24 scenarios, play 'pick a spell' and the player has the addiitonal resources to do it, so be it. I find it much more fair than to read into the rules a limiting factor. To start, the player needs feats, a specific race/class combo, and a specific additional resource to do it. Round to take it off, round to put it on, round to activate (for the robe) or a third level spell.

(Aside, I think Paizo needs to look again at the 24 hour attunement rule, but it's not an issue of RAW.

You have a fair point regarding Exotic Weapon Proficiency. I think the issue I have with Improved Eldritch Heritage is that you can only take that feat two times: once for the level 3 bloodline power and once for the level 9 one. I have trouble dealing with the idea that a character can use a third level spell, or even a scroll, to have access to any spell on a list.

Half-elf is not really a limitation for an oracle, and it's hardly a limitation for a sorcerer, especially now that a half-elf has access to the human favoured class bonus from the Advanced Player's Guide.

Regarding choices like this, I am currently undecided. I haven't yet seen such options abused in my area, and I imagine a player's use of these abilities would colour my future perceptions and rulings.

Dark Archive

half elf had access to elf Oracle favored class bonus. add half level to one revelation.

makes owlbear more amazing


Name Violation wrote:

half elf had access to elf Oracle favored class bonus. add half level to one revelation.

makes owlbear more amazing

I'm fairly sure this isn't true in PFS. In a home campaign? Sure. But Half Elves aren't Elves.

They count as elves for a lot of stuff, but the Additional Resources page specifically limits who can take what from the ARG. You must be a member of that race.

I might be wrong, but I think that's the case.

Dark Archive

Correct. In PFS at least, a half-elf doesn't gain access to the elf oracle's favoured class bonus, in the same way that he cannot take elf-only feats.

Please don't try to break the game at my table. I'd prefer to just hand you your chronicle sheet so the rest of the table (myself included) can have a good time.

The Exchange

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While I'm grateful to know there's yet another class I can get access to a bear in (and thus the owlbear that's still floating on my nebulous as yet unplayed character), I have to say it saddens me that there seem to be so many people on the message boards these days who can't just accept a really nice, mostly flavor boon as just that--but instead feel that they have to twist the numbers on that boon so hard they nearly break in order to turn it into something "worthwhile". I just hope the paizo team doesn't stop giving us the cool flavor boons because of it.

Dark Archive

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

Correct. In PFS at least, a half-elf doesn't gain access to the elf oracle's favoured class bonus, in the same way that he cannot take elf-only feats.

Please don't try to break the game at my table. I'd prefer to just hand you your chronicle sheet so the rest of the table (myself included) can have a good time.

check the faq from last month. half elf can take human, elf, or half elf favored class bonus. half orc can pick theirs, human, or orc.

specifically a reversal of an old rule

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

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Name Violation wrote:
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

Correct. In PFS at least, a half-elf doesn't gain access to the elf oracle's favoured class bonus, in the same way that he cannot take elf-only feats.

Please don't try to break the game at my table. I'd prefer to just hand you your chronicle sheet so the rest of the table (myself included) can have a good time.

check the faq from last month. half elf can take human, elf, or half elf favored class bonus. half orc can pick theirs, human, or orc.

specifically a reversal of an old rule

This is for the Pathfinder RPG. Pathfinder Society places additional restrictions on ARG content.

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Pirate Rob wrote:
Name Violation wrote:
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

Correct. In PFS at least, a half-elf doesn't gain access to the elf oracle's favoured class bonus, in the same way that he cannot take elf-only feats.

Please don't try to break the game at my table. I'd prefer to just hand you your chronicle sheet so the rest of the table (myself included) can have a good time.

check the faq from last month. half elf can take human, elf, or half elf favored class bonus. half orc can pick theirs, human, or orc.

specifically a reversal of an old rule

This is for the Pathfinder RPG. Pathfinder Society places additional restrictions on ARG content.

I am quite aware of this.

also favored class bonus aren't on the list of " must actually be off this race" stuff in the additional resources page. it's quite pfs legal.

Dark Archive

last months faq is pfs binding, and nothing in additional content disallows it .

Liberty's Edge

teribithia9 wrote:
While I'm grateful to know there's yet another class I can get access to a bear in (and thus the owlbear that's still floating on my nebulous as yet unplayed character), I have to say it saddens me that there seem to be so many people on the message boards these days who can't just accept a really nice, mostly flavor boon as just that--but instead feel that they have to twist the numbers on that boon so hard they nearly break in order to turn it into something "worthwhile". I just hope the paizo team doesn't stop giving us the cool flavor boons because of it.

And THIS,kids, is why we can't have nice things. ;-)

Just sayin ... +1.

4/5

Unfortunately, I believe he is correct: FCB's are not specifically included on the prohibited list.

But thanks for bringing this up, we'll let the PFS leadership know about it.


Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

Correct. In PFS at least, a half-elf doesn't gain access to the elf oracle's favoured class bonus, in the same way that he cannot take elf-only feats.

Please don't try to break the game at my table. I'd prefer to just hand you your chronicle sheet so the rest of the table (myself included) can have a good time.

I really dislike this type of attitude.

EVeryone should have a moment to enjoy the game. If I come to a table with something game breaking, it does not mean I will use it at every turn. Nor does it mean name violation will either. Maybe he breaks a horrible animal companion to make it do something silly that entertains everyone at the table?

To assume they will wreck the game before they do is rude as well. If you see this at the table talk to the person and let them know they are wrecking other people's fun if they keep doing it. You have control the table as a DM call a break and talk with them and then ask them to leave if you can not reason with them.

You do not need something game breaking to wreck a table. I have seen someone do the same thing by speaking over everyone and taking control of the game by rushing forward in each room forcing the DM to answer.

In the boards drawing lines in the sand just creates animosity. It feels like you are toeing the line of the board admins to get the other one to provoke.

Plus what is game breaking to you might not be to someone else.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

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June Soler wrote:

Unfortunately, I believe he is correct: FCB's are not specifically included on the prohibited list.

But thanks for bringing this up, we'll let the PFS leadership know about it.

Mike and I had actually discussed issuing a clarification about this ruling later this week, noting that it did apply to PFS and would lead to a modification of the Additional Resources page; however, in light of Name Violation's observations, perhaps we should reconsider.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

John Compton wrote:
June Soler wrote:

Unfortunately, I believe he is correct: FCB's are not specifically included on the prohibited list.

But thanks for bringing this up, we'll let the PFS leadership know about it.

Mike and I had actually discussed issuing a clarification about this ruling later this week, noting that it did apply to PFS and would lead to a modification of the Additional Resources page; however, in light of Name Violation's observations, perhaps we should reconsider.

If I'm understanding your goals correctly, then I wonder if it might be better to ban that specific alternate FCB altogether and then still go ahead and let half-elves get the rest of the elf and human stuff (and open up Racial Heritage to the ARG, as well, if that was the plan). That'd open more doors than it closes, I think.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

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Jiggy wrote:

If your goal is to disallow the higher-than-your-level AniComp, then I wonder if it might be better to ban that specific alternate FCB altogether and then still go ahead and let half-elves get the rest of the elf and human stuff (and open up Racial Heritage to the ARG, as well, if that was the plan). That'd open more doors than it closes, I think.

That is, if shutting down the boosted animal companion is the goal.

Finding workarounds to acquire extraordinarily powerful effects is a tradition in roleplaying games, but there are certainly times when it seems more distasteful than laudable. The proposed animal companion combo is distasteful in this way. Opening up more avenues to enable that distastefulness is likewise distasteful, even though most of the options made available through such a decision would actually be healthy, productive, and rewarding.

You know that classic situation where the child breaks his toys, and the parents say, "Well, if you're going to just break your toys, we won't buy you any more toys." In this case is feels like "If you're going to use your toys to nuke a neighboring country, we're not going to give you any more toys." Excusing my hyperbole, if you will, I sometimes find arguments for frightfully powerful combinations to twinge a similar nerve.

Yes, Finlanderboy, there are many people who can responsibly manage a powerful build, using the craziest abilities only when things are really intense. I'm not getting that vibe here, for whatever reason.

Dark Archive

the point of allowing awesome things from products is actually getting to use the stuff printed I'm the products. if we ban everything, then everything is balanced. let's just ban everything


Name Violation wrote:
the point of allowing awesome things from products is actually getting to use the stuff printed in the products, so long as it won't cause issues

Slight fix for ya there, mate.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

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Name Violation wrote:
the point of allowing awesome things from products is actually getting to use the stuff printed I'm the products. if we ban everything, then everything is balanced. let's just ban everything

I love writing awesome things for products, and I love finding awesome things to use from printed products.

When awesomeness results in greater enjoyment without dramatically and negatively impacting the enjoyment of others or the health of the community, it's truly awesome. If it's seriously hurting the enjoyment of others (who are constantly overshadowed, marginalized, and/or harmed by the "awesomeness") or negatively impacting the community (hard feelings threatening the positive atmosphere, growth of the region, and/or availability of GMs), then it's time to reassess the situation. That could be a local matter of talking to a player (e.g. "Hey, um, did you notice how everyone else in the part only got to roll initiative but never do anything?") or looking long and hard at an option that might be causing harm on a larger scale.

Dark Archive

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Luckily, there are plenty of awesome things left in the ARG, even with a few removed.

Personally, I'm not at all a fan of the aasimar/elf oracle favoured class bonus. I think it invites far too much abuse in an organized play setting when the GM has very few ways of responding.

If we're going to name attitudes that we hate in PFS, I'll mention the "well it's technically legal so you can't stop me" attitude as my least favourite.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

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Oh, and as an aside about owlbears—the original topic, near as I can tell—those critters are fun but not overpowering by any means (minimal benefits for a respectable drawback and a lot of bragging rights). I don't imagine cool boons like these are going to stop happening.

Dark Archive

I've seen plenty of furious finishing barbarian fighters, slumber hex witches, and smart wizards one shot boss battles. should those things get banned?

Dark Archive

Name Violation wrote:
I've seen plenty of furious finishing barbarian fighters, slumber hex witches, and smart wizards one shot boss battles. should those things get banned?

I think at least one of these is an eligible candidate.


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Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Name Violation wrote:
I've seen plenty of furious finishing barbarian fighters, slumber hex witches, and smart wizards one shot boss battles. should those things get banned?
I think at least one of these is an eligible candidate.

It's the summoner, isn't it?


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talbanus wrote:
teribithia9 wrote:
While I'm grateful to know there's yet another class I can get access to a bear in (and thus the owlbear that's still floating on my nebulous as yet unplayed character), I have to say it saddens me that there seem to be so many people on the message boards these days who can't just accept a really nice, mostly flavor boon as just that--but instead feel that they have to twist the numbers on that boon so hard they nearly break in order to turn it into something "worthwhile". I just hope the paizo team doesn't stop giving us the cool flavor boons because of it.

And THIS,kids, is why we can't have nice things. ;-)

Just sayin ... +1.

When I originally submitted the owl bear boon, I gave it grab. I'm glad at this point John didn't let that through.

4/5

Kyle Baird wrote:
talbanus wrote:
teribithia9 wrote:
While I'm grateful to know there's yet another class I can get access to a bear in (and thus the owlbear that's still floating on my nebulous as yet unplayed character), I have to say it saddens me that there seem to be so many people on the message boards these days who can't just accept a really nice, mostly flavor boon as just that--but instead feel that they have to twist the numbers on that boon so hard they nearly break in order to turn it into something "worthwhile". I just hope the paizo team doesn't stop giving us the cool flavor boons because of it.

And THIS,kids, is why we can't have nice things. ;-)

Just sayin ... +1.

When I originally submitted the owl bear boon, I gave it grab. I'm glad at this point John didn't let that through.

Now we know WHO did it. Kyle this thread and every other thread with badwrongfun is your fault! :)

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

As I'm the most common GM for name violation, I thought I'd chime in. I don't mind his owlbear / paragon surge shenanigans, because it just brings him up to the level of Cold Napalm, the far more annoying player at my table.

He also mainly uses his builds to assist other characters instead of. Just killing everything himself, which I much appreciate.

4/5

You Bay Area guys crack me up. Since I'll be at DUNDRACON. Hopefully I'll get a chance to meet you Cold Napalm, Name Violation and see what you guys are all about.

Silver Crusade

John and Mike, I really like the Owlbear boon I have a Half orc beast master that has him. Though I would like you to unnerf bears Let bears become large at 7th level and give them grab at 7th. I see no reason to nerf bears if dinos are allowed for companions. Lions and tigers get large at 7th no reason for bears to be med after 7th. you could even bump the level for bears getting large up 1 or 2 levels for balance just let them become large at some point.

Could you put some magical beasts in for unique companions at some point
perhaps a unicorn for a paladin or even a large foo animal of some type.

Let the Rangers and Druids save glorians furry buddies instead of just being murder-hobos [just heard that term the other night].

Liberty's Edge

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Lou Diamond wrote:

Lions and tigers get large at 7th no reason for bears to be med after 7th.

Then we could have large lions, tigers, AND bears, oh my!!! (sorry, I couldn't help myself ... /ducks incoming pies)

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

Lou Diamond wrote:
John and Mike, I really like the Owlbear boon I have a Half orc beast master that has him. Though I would like you to unnerf bears Let bears become large at 7th level and give them grab at 7th. I see no reason to nerf bears if dinos are allowed for companions. Lions and tigers get large at 7th no reason for bears to be med after 7th. you could even bump the level for bears getting large up 1 or 2 levels for balance just let them become large at some point.

That's a larger Pathfinder system rules request and is not something I intend to investigate or circumvent in Pathfinder Society. Might I recommend the rules forum?

Liberty's Edge

John Compton wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

If your goal is to disallow the higher-than-your-level AniComp, then I wonder if it might be better to ban that specific alternate FCB altogether and then still go ahead and let half-elves get the rest of the elf and human stuff (and open up Racial Heritage to the ARG, as well, if that was the plan). That'd open more doors than it closes, I think.

That is, if shutting down the boosted animal companion is the goal.

Finding workarounds to acquire extraordinarily powerful effects is a tradition in roleplaying games, but there are certainly times when it seems more distasteful than laudable. The proposed animal companion combo is distasteful in this way.

In this thread, John rolls a natural 20 on his diplomacy check! Kudos, sir.

Dark Archive

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Lou, you repeatedly ask the wrong people to 'unnerf' bears. John and Mike are in charge of PFS, and have no role in changing the mechanics of the bear companion.

In any case, I think the bear companion is one of the best actually. It has a great strength score for a medium creature, and tends to fit in a lot more areas as a result of its size. It makes for a very balanced companion.


One man's cheese is another man's pizza topping.

I had someone critize me for making a blaster sorcerer at level that did 4d4+8 damage with burning hands at level 1.

That persons logic was. Arcane casters NEED to be week a level 1. It is cheese to make them powerfull.

When I played at Gen Con I saw several games where new people playing pregens were left watching the game while others did everything.

After I saw this I made an effort to have my character supprot theirs in future games. Either through role playing or in combat.

Building power characters is often like evolution. When you play in a game with pwoerful characters those people feel they need to step it up, oR even go overboard. Look at thistledown's post. I think this proves it.

My FIRST PFS games afterwards the GMs would brag about killing players. One told the others that they would kill two of the other players characters and did so in a month. Now I feel I need to build power characters to protect from that.

Aww thisteldown I wanna play wityh those guys too =(

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