Can a level 1 druid buy a large club, and then wield it as a 2H weapon and use shillelagh to make it a magical 3d6 beatstick?
Please explain why they can't do it if so :) Thanks!
yes, they can do so with a -4 penalty to wielding a size-inappropriate weapon. However, you're dice upscaling is wrong, and I suggest re-checking the table that show's what's what.
Yes you can weild an over sized weapon but it is at a -2 penalty. The -4 penalty would be for non proficiency. Also you are correct on the 3d6 damage as well. It is what the spell says.
Can you link me for the rules to getting a -2 to attack for wielding a Large weapon as a human with 2 hands?
Thanks.
From the Equipment section:
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.
Also keep the last sentence in mind, though. This only works because a club is normally a one-handed weapon. If a club was normally a two-handed weapon, a Medium creature wouldn't be able to wield a Large version.
Ok, very cool. So it sounds like the (L) 2H club normally swings for 1d8 and -2 to hit, but when he casts shillelagh on it, it is then -1 to hit and does 3d6+1 damage.
Cool to know he can do that.
So a Half Giant druid could one hand this 3d6+1 weapon at a +1 rather than a -1. Or he could go up a weapon size, two hand wield, and take the -1 for... would that be 4d8+1 damage at level 1?
So, not to rain on your "beatstick" parade, but the extra d6 of damage absolutely does not make up for the -2 to hit and never will. Totally don't do this, trust me.
It will if you still hit on a 2.
So, not to rain on your "beatstick" parade, but the extra d6 of damage absolutely does not make up for the -2 to hit and never will. Totally don't do this, trust me.
I think I want to see the math you're using here.
Assuming that I hit on a 15, a -2 to hit would mean I hit on a 17 -- instead of hitting 30% of the time, I hit 20% of the time.
Hitting 30% of the time for 100% of the damage does just as much DPR as hitting 20% of the time for 150% of the damage.
If I hit on less than a 15 normally, the tree-trunk sized club does more expected damage.
So, not to rain on your "beatstick" parade, but the extra d6 of damage absolutely does not make up for the -2 to hit and never will.
A -2 to attacks and a +3.5 to damage is similar to the return one would get from Power Attack with a one-handed weapon, and Power Attack seems popular enough.
Without doing the math, I'll just point out that the druid might have some Strength bonus added to the damage, or other modifiers. So the extra d6 will likely not amount to the attack dealing 150% of the damage.
And alternatively, the monster might have some sort of damage resistance that would make the additional size even more effective, because damage net of DR would be greater.
I'm simply objecting to the idea that "the extra d6 of damage absolutely does not make up for the -2 to hit and never will." It's a situational improvement, but I think it's a clever idea for when those situations arise. Especially since carrying around a (free) extra stick of firewood is hardly burdensome.
(I deleted the post Orfamay Quest quoted because I decided I didn't really want to get involved with a DPR debate, but the site was apparently too slow in getting it done!)
So, not to rain on your "beatstick" parade, but the extra d6 of damage absolutely does not make up for the -2 to hit and never will. Totally don't do this, trust me.
What about on that Half Giant druid I was thinking about who can use large weapons without the -2? Let's say he has a 14 strength, took Power Attack at level 1, and is using the large club two handed. He could use this weapon for 3d6+1+(1.5*STR)+3 and no penalty other than power attack. That's a +2 to hit and 3d6+7 (average 17.5 per hit) at level 1, Or +3 to hit 3d6+3 without the feat and using a shield. If we pushed his strength up to 18 we could get a +5 attack for 3d6+7 without power attack.
This actually seems pretty viable to me up until the level where you would expect to have better than a +1 weapon.
I would point out that a non-multiclassed druid cannot have power attack before level 3. It has a BAB requirement of 1.
Whoops, missed that. Too late to make edits. Still, you can see where this is going.