Monks and Attack Ratings


Advice


What are some of the best ways I can acquire more Attack Rating?

I know I can take Weapon Focus, currently using Weapon Finesse with the high Dex I have, also going for the route of Tripping my opponent to gain that beautiful +4(well -4 to their AC vs Melee), gaining higher ground, and/or flanking for full combat advantage, true striking and Stunning Fist(or without TS).

Is there anything else I can do that will help in the longrun?

If there is anything else you need to know about my Monk let me know and I'll cooperate!

Grand Lodge

Attack Rating? That is a term I have not heard used to describe what you are referring to.

Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver will help.


Add to my Attack Rolls then? >.> Okay.

I'll check it out! Thank you.


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only leveling and magic items increase your attack roll sadly. Having said that, cracked pale green prism Ioun stone give you a +1.

Scarab Sages

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Spells. Clerics can cast bless, or aid for a +1 morale bonus or prayer for a luck bonus.

Wizards can cast reduce person on you and you would get +2 to hit from a combination of size bonus and dex raise.

Cat's grace will give you more dex, and therefore more to hit.

Bards inspire courage will help everyone's to hit and damage, as will the Heroism spell.


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Kazumetsa wrote:

What are some of the best ways I can acquire more Attack Rating?

I know I can take Weapon Focus, currently using Weapon Finesse with the high Dex I have, also going for the route of Tripping my opponent to gain that beautiful +4(well -4 to their AC vs Melee), gaining higher ground, and/or flanking for full combat advantage, true striking and Stunning Fist(or without TS).

Is there anything else I can do that will help in the longrun?

If there is anything else you need to know about my Monk let me know and I'll cooperate!

Amulet of Mighty Fists (and I recommend if you are using Weapon Finesse you get one with the agile property - that adds your dex bonus to damage instead of strength). Belt of Incredible Dexterity will help you as well.

Unfortunately, hitting is the monk's major weakness, and maneuvers are only going to work against some foes.


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Kazumetsa wrote:

What are some of the best ways I can acquire more Attack Rating?

I know I can take Weapon Focus, currently using Weapon Finesse with the high Dex I have, also going for the route of Tripping my opponent to gain that beautiful +4(well -4 to their AC vs Melee), gaining higher ground, and/or flanking for full combat advantage, true striking and Stunning Fist(or without TS).

Is there anything else I can do that will help in the longrun?

If there is anything else you need to know about my Monk let me know and I'll cooperate!

Allies within reach of your enemy can add +2 to your attack roll with Aid Another. You could get a bunch of hirelings to come help you out.

The Pale Green Prism ioun stone nets you a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls.

The Prayer Spell gets you a +1 Luck bonus on attack rolls.

Allies of the owner of a lord's banner of victory gain a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks for as long as they can see the banner.

The Ring of Terrible costs can add up to a +5 to hit once before you have to spend a standard action to power it up again.


7heprofessor wrote:


The Prayer Spell gets you a +1 Luck bonus on attack rolls.

Allies of the owner of a lord's banner of victory gain a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks for as long as they can see the banner.

We actually have a Cleric who will likely take up that ability! He'd be crazy not to.

As for Cat's Grace I assume it's only a spell that can be cast by one of the required classes? Could I perhaps get scrolls or a wand of it and throw it on myself?

As for the Banner, I assume it's a movement cost to plant it during battle?


Cat's Grace can be made into a wand or scroll, but you would need UMD (I believe) to use it. That being said, its widely available as a spell for both arcane and divine casters I believe. Depending on the makeup of your party though, your casters may not find it efficient. Its the same level as the majority of the buff spells out there (2nd) and spells like Bull's Strength or the Con one (can't remember the name off the top of my head) might take priority for a lot of parties.


I have a lvl 5 sohei that hits at +9 with a ranseur and +11 with UAS. It's not the greatest, but it works. I have a +1 cold iron ranseur, brawling chain shirt, AoMF, that +1 ioun stone, and a 20 str. Factor in power attack and flurry for my UAS, and I'm doing ok acting as the party tank.


Brawling. That's an interesting enchant :3

Is it pathfinder, or 3rd party enchant? Also can it be put only on armor?

Scarab Sages

Kazumetsa wrote:

Brawling. That's an interesting enchant :3

Is it pathfinder, or 3rd party enchant? Also can it be put only on armor?

It's from Ultimate Equipment. Can only be put on light armor.


PF, light armor only. Which rules out mithril b-plate, and armored kilt when stacked with anoth piece. The balance is that you dex is so much higher than your str that a +2 hit/dmg isn't breaking your game, or your str character has crap AC, or your vanilla monk looses all there worthwhile abilities for a +2 to hit/ dmg. These limitations never stop me though, it's great for a sohei or MoMS IMO.


Understood. Thank you both. My party consists of a Cleric, Wizard, Rogue, and Magus aside from my Monk. Currently we are level 3 but I like to plan things out :)

I'll have about the same attack rating as your Sohei come level 5. I guess I'm not too bad off but I want to stack as much attack as possible.

When it comes to equipment I've got:

Most desired Equipment:
• Amulet of Mighty Fists *****
• Monk’s Robe ****
• Belt of Incredible Dexterity ***
• Unfettered Shirt **
• Truesight Goggles **
• Boots of Speed ****
• Deliquescent Gloves **
• Halo of Menace ***
• Headband of Inspired Wisdom ***
• Juggernaut’s Pauldrons ****
• Bracers of Sworn Vengeance **
• Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone +1 Attack ****
• Deep Red Sphere Ioun Stone +2 Dex ****
• Ring of Invisibility
• Ring of Freedom

Most desired Enchantments:
• Cat’s Grace spell via Wizard or Scroll/UMD +4 Dex
• Prayer spell via Cleric +1 Attack to all
• Lord’s Banner of Victory +2 Attack
• Agile on Amulet of Mighty Fists – Dex mod added to dam rolls

((I don't actually have any of these yet, but I'm sure I can have the made by our Wizard or find/buy them eventually.))

So far. As far as abilities/feats, I'm sticking with Trip, Flanking, Stun, High Ground, Invisibility(whether I get it through ninja levels or the ring) and any combination thereof.

Any other suggestions fellas?


Scrap your character for a ranger or paladin? I should note that my sohei does 2d4+ 12 at reach, and 2d6 + 20 at close range. Next lvl I can flurry with my ranseur at 2d4 + 13 x 3 or unarmed strike at 1d6 + 10 x3... I don't know what your dmg output is, but you need to protect your softies and sub melee peeps. My AC is 23 (27 with a ki point), and I can negate one hit with snake style if need be.


No way! I love Monks. All I'm trying to do is gather as much Attack Rating as possible to avoid missing as much as possible. >_>
I love their style and super evasive/defensive nature. It's not all about damage now. :D


With a high acrobatics skill you could look at Death from Above.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You screwed up already by taking Weapon Finesse. Should have used Strength instead. Not only is it easier to boost, it also increases your damage.

Who cares that you never miss when you don't do any appreciable damage?

Scarab Sages

Ravingdork wrote:

You screwed up already by taking Weapon Finesse. Should have used Strength instead. Not only is it easier to boost, it also increases your damage.

Who cares that you never miss when you don't do any appreciable damage?

Agile weapon or amulet of mighty fists counters that, and allows him to actually stay alive with a decent AC.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm not certain that agile can be put on an amulet of mighty fists. Does it not apply only to weapons?

Scarab Sages

Amulet of Mighty Fists wrote:

This amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons.

Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks. See Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities for a list of abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. An amulet of mighty fists does not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.

You can add agile to an AOMF because an unarmed strike can be used with weapon finesse.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Except unarmed strikes are not weapons. They are unarmed strikes.


Weapon Finesse certainly wasn't a mistake. Also my character isn't necessarily going only for damage - Otherwise I probably would have gone Barbarian, Magus, or Fighter. Also, just because one speaks of "not wanting to miss" doesn't always imply that one wishes to hit simply for damage - I like cool abilities that disable, and hopefully make my DM mad enough so that I can confront him with "Umadbro? Yumadtho?"
Not to knock your Str idea - Since that's a pretty good thing to consider with any melee initially :)

Imbicatus gets what I'm going at here.

Plus, living longer means more hitting as opposed to dying sooner with the much lower AC. There are also more connections in regards to feats and abilities to Dex with a Monk than I initially thought - Which opened the gateway and helped me veer away from Str. It'll be a rather pitiful first 6 levels for me, but afterwards my character should really start to shine in combat.

Good find Durngrun Stonebreaker! I'm curious though, could I charge and use trip instead of melee attack?

I am still rather Noobish to Pathfinder no matter how much I read on Monks and how many times I go through the hundreds of feat options.


This enhancement can only be placed on a melee weapon which is usable with the Weapon Finesse feat.

Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive. A wielder with the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls with the weapon in place of her Strength modifier. This modifier to damage is not increased for two-handed weapons, but is still reduced for off-hand weapons.

+

This amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons.

Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks. See Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities for a list of abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. An amulet of mighty fists does not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.

I'd say these two go together. Just as well "A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons." and "You are considered to be armed even when unarmed—you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you attack foes while unarmed. Your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your choice." It is considered a "Light Weapon" and/or Natural Weapon.

Scarab Sages

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Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.

This is the important sentence in the item description. When combined with the following sentence description form Agile property:

This enhancement can only be placed on a melee weapon which is usable with the Weapon Finesse feat.

The amulet can be enchanted with any melee weapon special ability that would work with an Unarmed Strike. An Unarmed Strike can be used with Weapon Finesse, so the amulet can be enchanted with the Agile special ability.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Except Agile specifically states it ONLY goes on melee weapons, which unarmed strikes aren't.

Scarab Sages

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The Amulet explicitly grants melee weapon abilities to unarmed attacks. It doesn't matter that melee weapon special abilities only work with melee weapons, specific overrides general.

This is made extremely confusing because of the this can be interpreted two different ways.

1) this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, as long as an unarmed strike is a legal recipient of the effect - example, you cannot gain the benefit of Vorpal unless your unarmed strikes can deal slashing damage or you cannot add Throwing because you would have to rip off your hand to throw it.

2) this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, as long as they could normally be enchanted to an unarmed strike, but since unarmed strikes cannot be enchanted like normal melee weapons, you can't use any of them.

I think its obvious which of these interpretations is RAW. The amulet is specifically designed to bypass the issue of 'but you can't enchant your body with Shocking Burst' by putting it into the amulet and gaining its benefits.


http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pspy?Agile-and-Amulet-of-Mighty-Fists#1

I think everyone should chime in and give their opinion!! This needs to be figured out :3


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Indeed! FAQ it even!


I'd let it work. It wouldn't break the monk IMO, and might even help a bit. But I am still a str monk fan unless you are going for something crazy like cleric 1/ monk X with dervish dance and crusaders flurry.


Two things here:

1. The Agile property isn't being put on the Unarmed Strikes, it's being put on the Amulet.

2. A monk's Unarmed Strikes are considered armed. (i.e. the monk is considered to be armed when he uses unarmed strikes).

Because of these two things, I'd rule that Agile on the Amulet works. Especially since the Amulet still can only have a total enhancement of +5 so the monk is still going to lose out compared to pretty much every other class in this respect.


It's legal, it's been FAQed before, I think. HeroLab lets me do it, and a lot of monk builds depend on it. As pointed out, if you can't put agile on an AoMF because unarmed strike isn't a weapon, then you can't put ANYTHING on it, for the same reason. No flaming, shocking, corrosive, freezing, holy, unholy, or whatever, because they are all WEAPON properties.

Perhaps you are missing the line in the monk's unarmed strike that makes clear it can be considered a manufactured weapon for the purposes of magical effects?

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