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Last weekend I heard that a ‘bunch of guys’ (I have no idea how many that really is) don’t have any more un-played scenarios that they can get credit for playing. And several of them are almost out of the ones they can get GM credit for running.
I have no idea how many scenarios there are or how much time that would involve, but wow!
Is that common? If that’s true, some people have a whole lot more free time than I do to devote to this hobby.
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Not common. Extremely rare, if at all. Probably just a rumor.
As of today (5/20/2013) there are:
127 scenarios, not counting the retired ones from season 0 (136 counting them)
(EDIT: remember the Exclusives are converted into regular scenarios in the following season and should only be counted once)
2 Quests
25 Sanctioned Modules, including the 5 part Thornkeep (so 29 actually)
16 Sanctioned Adventure Path segments
with more on the way every month.
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Ok so assume 4 hours per, at 24 hours a day, and 7 days a week...
That would take you right about a month to just play through them all and another month to GM them all...I'm going to hope that is just an exagerated rumor.
A lot take more than 4 hours to run.
Generally figure twice as much time to prepare an adventure than it takes to run.
Then there is the time to travel to/from the game. The time spent organizing the game. The time reading the rules and working on characters. The time shopping for/downloading rulebooks and adventures. Etc.
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Last weekend I heard that a ‘bunch of guys’ (I have no idea how many that really is) don’t have any more un-played scenarios that they can get credit for playing. And several of them are almost out of the ones they can get GM credit for running.
I have no idea how many scenarios there are or how much time that would involve, but wow!
Is that common? If that’s true, some people have a whole lot more free time than I do to devote to this hobby.
I have played almost every scenario to date as well as about half the modules, and I GM at least every other week and I have been playing since year 0 at GenCon. I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that they have played and GM'd everything, unless the have A LOT of free time on their hands. I think they are probably exagerating to a degree. It is possible just very unlikely...
Nathan Meyers
PFS NYC Player/GM
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We have a number of players in the Milwaukee/Chicago areas that have played "almost" everything. The scenarios are pretty easy to stay on top of if you have been playing since season 0. The modules are a little more difficult to keep up with and I don't think very many people have even started the APs. But then you add GMing everything too and this just seems improbable.
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If you play and/or run frequently, you can run out of material fast. Been playing since the start of season 1 and started running a few months after that. After our session tomorrow, there will only be 4 tier 1-5 scenarios, 2 tier 3-7, 0 tier 1-7, and 2 level 1-2 modules that I have not played or run.
There are plenty of tier 5-9 and tier 7-11 which I have not played or run yet. There are modles and APs above first. Some have been played and others have not. The biggest challenge is getting all the players in our home group to an appropriate level to be able to run those on a consitent basis. We were getting close but lost a few players and have recently added some new ones starting from 1st level.
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I did realize I had played every season 0-3 1-5/1-7 except one and was playing the season 4 1-5 as they came out. I've also have GM'd quite a few. So I'm having problems preventing a level gap in my characters.
So I am playing first steps and applying GM credit until I get to 3rd level.
This is a more limited problem, but it does exist for some people.
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This comment also came up locally in my area, and it turns out the issue is really that players around here have many characters in the 1-4 range and are exhausting their 1-5 and 1-7 options, rather than "all scenarios".
Here's an excerpt (with minor tweaks for relevance) from the post I made on our lodge's Facebook group:
Since I know a few people have mentioned that they're starting to "run out" of scenarios, I ran some numbers on my own tracking sheet, just to see what I got - here are the results:
My first PFS game running or playing: July 10, 2012
Number of scenarios from 0-01 to 4-26: 132 not including duplicate EX, retired, and past one-time-only (RftRCK2, etc) ones
Number of scenarios I personally have never played *or* GM'd: 58
Number of the unplayed/GM'd ones that are tier 1-5: 6
Number of the unplayed/GM'd ones that are tier 1-7: 4
Number of the unplayed/GM'd ones that are tier 3-7: 3
Number of the unplayed/GM'd ones that are tier 5-9: 14
Number of the unplayed/GM'd ones that are tier 7-11: 26
Number of the unplayed/GM'd ones that are tier 12/special/etc: 5Note that of the ones not counted above, many are ones I've played but not GM'd, or GM'd (multiple times in many cases) but not played, expanding the number I can participate in "for credit" - also not included are quests, adventure paths, or modules (noting also that some modules can be repeated semi "eternally" for level 1 credit)
Bear in mind that I have 15 characters with at least 1 xp on them, four of them levels 5+, but I've heard that several people locally have almost as many characters with all of them below level 5, meaning that you may find it harder and harder to find games to level up before 5. My strong advice is stick with the same character or two for awhile - every 5-9 scenario I've played or run has been as fun or moreso than most 1-5s, and the 7-11s are super challenging and exciting (just ask the people who I ran through 4-20 a few weeks ago who barely escaped with their lives)!
So, unless you've been gaming at a breakneck pace for years and years and have characters at all levels of the spectrum, I agree with Don's comment above that this should be a *very* rare occurrence.
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Agreed but I suspect that there will be some 'choke points' for people wanting to do scenarios. I've done a LOT of gaming in the year since I joined.. well compared to the years before joining PFS.. (heh) but I couldn't imagine the level of gaming to get thru EVERY single scenario.
Would it even be possible I wonder.
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I find that most of the time when a player has run out of scenarios or is close it is because they play at a LGS. Even with there being 120+ scenarios, some regions have a LOT of games per month. In St. Louis you can play 19 scenarios per month with out touching a convention or private location. As Nosig said, we have a few people in this boat.
The issue we have is that the modules and AP's are difficult to pull off at a LGS that runs a single slot. Getting people to commit to 3 separate game days to run a module can be tricky.
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It scares me that some people can play every week. Locally we have a 2 week turnaround (although at one point via the warhorn we were scheduling every week). i have been playing since August of Last year and have played in over 55 scenarios. Others locally would have played a lot more.
Id like to see if there is any correlation between those that play every week and those that stop playing because of burnout.
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We are currently running into the problem at lower tiers of "not enough stuff" I'm personally organizing 3-4 tables a week, lots of new players coming in and out, we're just simply running out of stuff for new players.
Makes me wonder why scenario's aren't just "one per character" for playing and GMing, I get the metagaming aspect, but most people are relatively good humans and aren't going to ruin the fun for everyone, and can't you just boot them from the table?
Modules are too long for the average gameday.
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Well the problem I see at my local gamestore is that a few new people come in verymuch wanting to play thier low level characters and the old players played almost all the low level ones with thier 8 characters.
The solution I said was have those old players DM a second table, but that would not happen.
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There is no current plans to allow replay above what is currently in place.
Current plans can change. More and More people are posting that they are running out of scenarios. It can't be positive to tell people who love the game to play less.
I'd love to see more scenario's instead of replaying scenarios, I'd pay more per scenario if needed.
Replay doesn't hurt wealth by level, it doesn't hurt the game system, all it does is allow people who have been playing a lot of PFS to continue doing the thing they love doing with new characters.
If the goal is making unqiue boons, make them one per PLAYER not character.
I have seen a ton of arguments against replay, and all it ever comes down to is "a play replaying can ruin the scenario". Lets be honest, everyone can play only scenario's they have GMd and ruin them to be Jerks, but jerks will be jerks regardless.
People are running out of scenarios. There are only 3 options.
1. Tell people to play less.
2. Make more scenarios, requires more support from Paizo in the form of staff, I'm a realist 3 people can't manage a campaign and edit/chronicle sheet all the scenarios.
3. Allow replays.
currently the response is effectively 1.
It takes almost 0 additional work to put a sentence in the next OP guide that says "Players and GM can get credit from the same scenario multiple times, but no PC may have the same chronicle sheet more than once."
This will never alleviate people wanting more stuff, but it will prevent the loss of players who have finished everything.
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More stuff has been sanctioned lately allowing for more things to play. Now you're saying that this isn't enough?
Sure Adventure Paths aren't great for public environments, but start your own home group if you're out of things to play.
I do not have experience with other organized campaigns, but everyone I know who does says that replay makes earning chronicles a joke. I saw an example of this at a local convention, where a player that had played in one of the old organized play campaigns was basically browbeaten into running a game for his friend. They finished in less than an hour because he ran the combats and nothing else just to get him and his buddies a chronicle. I absolutely do NOT want to see this happen to PFS on a regular basis. It already happens with First Steps when you have a table trying to get their characters to 2nd level quickly and everyone has already played the scenario.
I've been playing around 2 years quite regularly (a minimum of 4 games a month, but usually more than that). I still have a good 20 scenarios to play, about half a dozen sanctioned modules and I've only gotten credit for two or three of the sanctioned AP modules. I've still got a decent amount to play. Why is that? Because I also judge credit a lot of my characters at the lowest tier, so I don't run out of games to play at the lowest level.
If people aren't willing to step up and judge to earn more credit and be able to get more characters up (I am currently on #17), then I have no sympathy for the complaint that they are out of scenarios to play, especially at the lowest tier. It is, after all, the best place to start learning to judge.
Edited to add: Also, I use a combination of judge credit and playing to get them out of the lowest tier - usually I judge credit to 2nd (characters are SO squishy at first level ;) ) then use the newest scenarios to work the character up higher, working in judge credit as needed. So I still get to play the character, just not all the way to 5. And sure that means I have a lot of characters in the lowest tier, but that's OK, I have a lot of variety to bring to the table when I am looking for a game to play.
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I do love playing PFS, but when I run out of senarios I will find something else to do. I would defintly be interested in replaying many senarios for instance it would be great to replay the quest for perfection 1,2 and 3 to get the pet boon. There are many characters I would still like to play but there are little to no first level senarios I can still play for credit. If I have to GM the character all the way up then why even bother having a character concept in the first place.
This is exactly my point. When player's run out of stuff they lose interest in the campaign, and walk away.
I'm coordinating 14+ tables a month in my store. We're running out of stuff, for one of the weekly tables we're running almost exclusively modules.
Nobody wants to replay a scenario, but I would rather replay a scenario for credit than not play. I would rather not play at all than replay for no credit.
Also I like playing my PCs, making a level 12 that is 100% GM credit seems... lame. However making an never played character at each level seems amusing, time to run more first steps :)
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Playing and GMing everything would be quite a feat. But where would you go from there?
Participate in PFS for no play. I've GM'd and played for no credit and as long as you're having fun, you don't need the sheet at the end to have a good time.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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There is no current plans to allow replay above what is currently in place.Current plans can change. More and More people are posting that they are running out of scenarios. It can't be positive to tell people who love the game to play less.
I'd love to see more scenario's instead of replaying scenarios, I'd pay more per scenario if needed.
Replay doesn't hurt wealth by level, it doesn't hurt the game system, all it does is allow people who have been playing a lot of PFS to continue doing the thing they love doing with new characters.
If the goal is making unqiue boons, make them one per PLAYER not character.
I have seen a ton of arguments against replay, and all it ever comes down to is "a play replaying can ruin the scenario". Lets be honest, everyone can play only scenario's they have GMd and ruin them to be Jerks, but jerks will be jerks regardless.
People are running out of scenarios. There are only 3 options.
1. Tell people to play less.
2. Make more scenarios, requires more support from Paizo in the form of staff, I'm a realist 3 people can't manage a campaign and edit/chronicle sheet all the scenarios.
3. Allow replays.currently the response is effectively 1.
It takes almost 0 additional work to put a sentence in the next OP guide that says "Players and GM can get credit from the same scenario multiple times, but no PC may have the same chronicle sheet more than once."
This will never alleviate people wanting more stuff, but it will prevent the loss of players who have finished everything.
This is all refuted by the death of another OP system: Living Forgotten Realms. Starting at the point they began allowing replay, play became stagnant, game days became populated by the same faces over and over, and new players were crowded out.
The next step was to institute a "build a character at the tier you want to play" rule so that new players didn't have to worry about playing through low tier scenarios and could simply jump in with the veterans at higher tiers. This had the effect of driving off the older players who had time invested in their characters and were resentful of newbies not having to do the same.
So, the next step was to start offering unique boons based on story completion, which, again, went in favor of those who replayed, as they were able to take the seats over and over, crowding out the casual players.
At which point it became "one boon per player" instead. Pissing off the replayers and making them avoid tables that no longer "welcomed" them.
See the pattern?
And before you try to tell me that the real reason LFR died is because "4E is a terrible system," this all happened before PFRPG supplanted D&D as king of the sales hill.
Arguing that replay makes an OP system more viable is a lost cause.
Then again, I have found that arguing with the proponents of replay is also a lost cause.
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That's a good response. Drogon, I haven't been involved in LFR if you're telling my that LFR died BECAUSE of replay, I'll take your word for it and back off.
If you think it died because the system was more beneficial to replayers, that seems like something that can be done better.
I will never tell you that 4e is a terrible system, it's not. It's a good system, but not everyone wants to make the choices the power system creates every turn, this eventually lead to it's downfall.
More than anything I'd like to see more scenarios, but I just don't see that as realistic at this time.
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More than anything I'd like to see more scenarios, but I just don't see that as realistic at this time.Which is why AP's were sanctioned. The current schedule releases two scenarios and an AP each month. A module is released every other.
The excised portions of an AP take roughly twenty hours to play through. The old format for modules was nine to twelve hours of gameplay per 32 page book. With the new format being 64 pages, I'm guessing it will be more like twenty hours per module.
This means that the current schedule is releasing around forty hours of brand new, sanctioned game play per month. That seems like quite a bit.
I have run a few modules, 12 hours is probably about right, the sanctioned portions of APs are not 20 hours, either way. Home groups are not what I'm having a problem with. I can run modules or sanctioned APs. I'm running into problems with my weekly Wednesday night game, a few of those people make it every week, but a lot of them can't make it every week, or commit to a bunch of weeks in a row.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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That's a good response. Drogon, I haven't been involved in LFR if you're telling my that LFR died BECAUSE of replay, I'll take your word for it and back off.
If you think it died because the system was more beneficial to replayers, that seems like something that can be done better.
I will never tell you that 4e is a terrible system, it's not. It's a good system, but not everyone wants to make the choices the power system creates every turn, this eventually lead to it's downfall.
I'm unused to someone seeing those arguments and saying, "Okay. I believe you." So, I will apologize if I seemed at all hostile, as that is what I was expecting.
But, yes, as an organizer and observer of many, many organized play systems, it is my firm belief that the enactment of replay was the beginning of the end for LFR. I would go into a long list of reasons, but I don't want to bore you with business trend nonsense.
An aside: the only reason 4E was "terrible" was because there was no story for anyone to get behind. Golarion is the PFRPG's story, and that is the #1 reason Pathfinder outsells any other product.
More than anything I'd like to see more scenarios, but I just don't see that as realistic at this time.
This is what I want. And I think it is something that is justifiable, considering how many people now play their game, and their OP system. I would be surprised if they were not considering it.
Also, more than 5 new tier 1-5 scenarios in a season is a MUST (Cyphermage doesn't count - that was last year's). That was a huge mistake that was made during season 4. Huge.
