I'm disappointed with the amount of run-of-the-mill lawful monsters and want something with a bit more substance. Can anyone point me towards some quality lawful monsters?
No Inevitables. I think they are played out and trite.
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Formians will be in Bestiary 4.
I find flumphs interesting, though I suppose everything's about individual taste.
LG Superhero space jellyfish. I think they were in Bestiary 3, but I can't recall at the moment. ^_^
Archons, couatl, lammasu, dragons (gold, silver, bronze), blink dogs...
There aren't all that many LN monsters in the book. Azers, axiomites, shaitan genies, and one of the primal dragons are all the come immediately to mind in the various Bestiaries.
But, if you want to do some conversion for earlier editions of the game, there are myconids, modrons, and formians.
And, if your'e talking about lawful evil creatures, there are a LOT...
devils, kytons, fire giants, serpentfolk, barghest, hobgoblins, sahuagin, asuras, dragons (blue and green)...
I don't think any of the above are boring!
Shaitan Genie's are LN.
Brass, Silver, and Gold dragons are LG Archons are LG.
what role are these creatures supposed to be filling in your campaign? That might help.
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Why are you dissapointed with them? Is it just statwise, or is it more of a flavor problem?
Flavorwise, this is what you could do: Mr. Lawful is doing something he doesn't want or shouldn't do. Unfortunately, mr. Lawful swore an oath/has to choose between 2 evils, and now he has to protect the mcguffin/invade the material plane. Luckily for mr. Lawful, there is a way out. If someone was to kill mr. Lawful all would be well again, except that mr. Lawful would be dead.
Statwise, you could take anything and slap a LN alignment on him. Done.
Shaitan Genie's are LN.
Brass, Silver, and Gold dragons are LG Archons are LG.
what role are these creatures supposed to be filling in your campaign? That might help.
I'm building a setting where proteans are the biggest threat to the material plane and I want to have something interesting to present as their equal and opposites.
I've considered some dragons, but they feel too too similar to proteans. Axiomites are interesting and I may include them, but they aren't great as counters to the proteans.
The suggestions so far have been much to my liking. How could I have forgotten flumphs? lol.
hm.. are we *restricted* to N or G here?
I think devils would make a interesting counter. They're lawful, they don't want the prime taken over by the proteans because I mean, they called "dibs" on that millennia ago. And it's funny to make the PCs team up with "the bad guys".
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I've got this idea kicking around for "The Senate", a group of liches made by an ancient necromancer. The Senators aren't necessarily spellcasters; they're the wisest, cleverest people this necromancer could find, and they serve as a sort of advisory body, although obviously they can also kick ass if need be. They're somewhat less free to do as they please than ordinary liches; they're not self-made after all, and the ancient necromancer holds their phylacteries.
How about a multiracial cabal of immortals. Most lawful immortals have or quickly learn patience. Their long view can span eons. Imagine if a group of them managed to set aside their distrust in light of their common self interest against the proteans. You could have a lich and his advisers, a group of devils, inevitables, angels, etc., and over an incredibly long period working in concert their points of view become more lawful than everything else and they discard or sacrifice ethical issues like good or evil for the necessity of preserving order. Imagine how confused a party would be by seeing a paladin and a necromancer taking orders from a devil to preserve a hidden library or section of ancient forest without seemingly having an ulterior motive.
Part of it could be kicked off by having the material plane be a sort of metaphysical lynchpin. If the material plane falls, then all the other planes will lose coherence and eventually spiral into a chaotic abyss. If the group succeeds, the cabal might wind up choosing to continue as a major power, seeing how their differences acted to eliminate their weaknesses and reinforce their strengths. What happens when the angels, devils, etc, expect their companions to return home? What if this cabal then decides that the universe might be better off if the same authority ruled heaven and hell?
I like the name "The Senate" more than calling them a cabal. A cabal is petty, skulks around and betrays everyone. A Senate is a ruling body, made up of people who are chosen to rule. Although the Concordant Alliance has a ring to it. The Society of Necessity? The Unified?
Petitioners can be any alignment you want.
While not lawful, Aeons are all about balance. I would imagine a flood of Chaos would mess with it, though Aeons are completely alien as far as I understand. Archons are the LG forces of the universe if you haven't already thought about using them. Going through the list of outsiders those seem to be the ones with a big list of creatures to pick form.
Mortal beings are always good if you don't want to use outsiders. Man is capable of being anything. Dragons are long lived and tend towards a particular alignment.
I was thinking this old race was lawful, and some of the fluff backs this up, but they are said to be NE. Anyway, here they are:
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/manscorn.php
Now if you want plain lawful:
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/enduk.php
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Senate comes from Latin senex, "old man". Senator suggests someone old, wise and experienced.
I've also thought about "the Council", basically a place where the most powerful denizens of a plane come to talk and try to settle their differences without major bloodshed. The idea is to get a "seat", you have to be powerful enough that you could ruin things for everyone. Nuclear capability, basically; the people you can't just ignore.
If the members of the "Council" pretend to have some ideas about civilization and the greater good in mind, this is basically the UN security council; if they're blase about their realpolitik it's more like Great Power conferences from the nineteenth century.
I'm surprise that nobody thought about the Inevitable (LN outsider)
I'm surprise that nobody thought about the Inevitable (LN outsider)
No Inevitables. I think they are played out and trite.
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How about a multiracial cabal of immortals. Most lawful immortals have or quickly learn patience. Their long view can span eons. Imagine if a group of them managed to set aside their distrust in light of their common self interest against the proteans. You could have a lich and his advisers, a group of devils, inevitables, angels, etc., and over an incredibly long period working in concert their points of view become more lawful than everything else and they discard or sacrifice ethical issues like good or evil for the necessity of preserving order. Imagine how confused a party would be by seeing a paladin and a necromancer taking orders from a devil to preserve a hidden library or section of ancient forest without seemingly having an ulterior motive.
Part of it could be kicked off by having the material plane be a sort of metaphysical lynchpin. If the material plane falls, then all the other planes will lose coherence and eventually spiral into a chaotic abyss. If the group succeeds, the cabal might wind up choosing to continue as a major power, seeing how their differences acted to eliminate their weaknesses and reinforce their strengths. What happens when the angels, devils, etc, expect their companions to return home? What if this cabal then decides that the universe might be better off if the same authority ruled heaven and hell?
I like the name "The Senate" more than calling them a cabal. A cabal is petty, skulks around and betrays everyone. A Senate is a ruling body, made up of people who are chosen to rule. Although the Concordant Alliance has a ring to it. The Society of Necessity? The Unified?
This is awesome! I'd call them the Illuminati or something like that. I might use this in a campaign.
Shaitan Genie's are LN.
Brass, Silver, and Gold dragons are LG Archons are LG.
what role are these creatures supposed to be filling in your campaign? That might help.
I'm building a setting where proteans are the biggest threat to the material plane and I want to have something interesting to present as their equal and opposites.
I've considered some dragons, but they feel too too similar to proteans. Axiomites are interesting and I may include them, but they aren't great as counters to the proteans.
The suggestions so far have been much to my liking. How could I have forgotten flumphs? lol.
If inevitables don't work for you, how about the Norns? The weavers of fate have a certain air of myth and mystery about them that the inevitables may not.
Edit: Shedu or Lammasus (sp?) might be some other options. And remember you can always add the Resolute template to many creatures.
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This might sound crazy, but that's how I roll: Use the Mercane. A few of these extraplanar peddlers could form a consortium of merchants seeking to reclaim valuable markets lost to the Proteans when the creatures nearly wiped them from existence when the D&D 3.5 ruleset changed to Pathfinder. In other words, the reason the Mercane didn't show up in Pathfinder until Bestiary 2 is because the Proteans came along and almost completely destroyed their statblocks when they used their dread powers of entropy to start the Edition Wars, replace the Slaad and rewrite the rules of the game. It's kind of meta.
The Mercane (who escaped the Edition Wars by hiding copies of their statblocks in an ethereal net) may have reached out to Abadar for a chance for inclusion into the Pathfinder rules. Now, in addition to seeking to reclaim their former extraplanar trade outposts, they've been hired to represent a group of other monsters who were thought lost to the Proteans' crazed scheme. The Mercane could seek to hire a group of adventurers to steal a powerful artifact known as the Scroll of Ruleset Distorion from the Proteans so they can alter it to allow for their clients (the beholders, mind flayers, githyanki and a bunch of other non-OGL monsters) to finally flood into the Pathfinder rulebooks!
The Mercane! Good call.
Fight and oppose the hideous merchants could lead to a satisfying us and them game. Of the heroic warriors against the conniving cowardly alien merchants and their agents. I hope it wouldn't go anti-semitic, but it might.
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The Mercane! Good call.
Fight and oppose the hideous merchants could lead to a satisfying us and them game. Of the heroic warriors against the conniving cowardly alien merchants and their agents. I hope it wouldn't go anti-semitic, but it might.
Well, a schism inside the Mercane might be interesting. There could be different lawful sects with different agendas and alignments.
As for the us versus them game, it looks like they already took over Katapesh on Golarion or found people whose thoughts run along the same lines.
Oooh, the "senate" and the mercane sound great. As well as devils. I think I want to combine them into a series of lawful secret societies, some good and others evil with many human members.
The amount of races that could participate in such an organization is really entertaining.
Has no one mentioned the mighty Rakshasa?
Probably my favorite outsider race.
Different kinds for different CRs, each can have WILDLY differing individual goals, technically unkillable (they just reincarnate eventually), sweet animal headed cool stuff, magic, decent combat prowess, etc. And they're Lawful Evil.
Love 'em.
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You could take the Kyton "self-perfection through dubious medical experiments" angle for a spin and make them people who have seen The Chaos and are turning themselves into something capable of fighting back, any means necessary.
As for plain Lawful, I have to say: ordinary clerics. Clerics strike me as a very ordered class (they all get the same spell list), implying organized religion, getting together to resist the world crumbling into chaos.
Likewise, organized wizardry, based in schools and scriptoria, facilitating planning and communication.
Maybe most magical creatures aren't so focused on law/chaos, and were taken by surprise when the Protean onslaught began. Humanity, with it's superior numbers, lots of classed heroes and civilization, is actually the main bulwark of order.
Why not the Asura? While my love for then is a spinoff of me liking Asura's Wrath, their fluff specifically states that a number of them ditch evilness in their quest for enlightenment.
O wise Asurendra, how may we defeat the proteans?
Asurendra: Tell them that a universe of chaos would be uniform in substance, and thus orderly. It would also be boring.
(Why yes, I've read 8-Bit Theater.)
Unrelated, but related. This thread has helped me think of a race for the world. Devil-descended people that are more connected to their progenitors than tieflings (who are in this context are referred to as half-cambion). Think 4E tieflings for these guys visual aesthetic.
Cambion
Type: Outsider (Native) (3 RP)
Size: Medium (0 RP)
Base Speed: Normal (0 RP)
Ability Score Mods: +2 Int, +2 Cha, -2 Str (1 RP)
Languages: Standard (0 RP)
Defensive Racial Traits:
Devil’s Resistance - Cambions have acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, and fire resistance 5.(3 RP)
Poison Resistance - Cambions gain a racial bonus on saving throws against poison equal to their hit die. (3 RP)
Offensive Racial Traits.
Gregarious - When a cambion successfully uses Diplomacy to win over an individual, that creature takes -2 penalty on attempts to resist and of the member’s charisma-based skills for the next 24 hours. (1 RP)
Arcane Focus - Cambions gain a +2 racial bonus on concentration checks made to cast arcane spells defensively. (1 RP)
Hatred - Cambions gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against creatures with the azata or protean subtypes. (1 RP)
Total RP: 13
Sidenote: Do they seem balanced or overpowered?
Don't forget Aasimar and Tieflings. They can be any alignment, and they can work together. They could be the Senate's mortal agents.
Edit: I see you didn't forget. D'oh!