apparently she double majored in music (violin)
Since when does that make you a nerd!?
apparently she double majored in music (violin)Since when does that make you a nerd!?
Band nerd? It was a thing where I grew up at least.
Band nerd? It was a thing where I grew up at least.apparently she double majored in music (violin)Since when does that make you a nerd!?
Playing the violin generally does not land you in band. :-)
I'll accept it makes you geeky, perhaps, but nerdy? Surely not. The mousy ones generally don't survive to make it through music school.
I never equated her being a nerd to the fact she plays violin. She plays pnp and board games and was a math major. But when I think about it now... being a violin major? Ya I had an [unfortunate] freshman year in HS in band and was a music major for a bit in college so I would definitely say being a violin major falls within the nerd category.
Geeky != nerdy. And band != orchestra.
Heh. I'm lazy and have always used the former two interchangeably.
I'm glad Supernatural came up because I'm an avid fan...well at least of S 1-5. Six kind of eh and 7 has only gotten better toward the end. They're going to make an 8 as well...I also found out from one of their extra videos of them at COMICON (I usually watch Supernatural on their site) that apparently I'm watching this show with along with a bunch of rabid 14 year old Asian girls. I'm not quite sure what this says about me.......
Spoiler:ANYWHO, Felicia Day has been in a number of episodes. Her IMDB shows 3 episodes but I could swear it was more. I believe she showed up near the end of last season as an employee of "Dick's" corporation and got sucked into the conflict. She was used as a hacker girl to get in and I believe she mentioned she had a tattoo of a naked girl on top of a d20 (she's a lesbian in the show ..not sure about real life). I think she showed up in a finale episode of that season as well to help.She was in the LARP episode as the queen nerd or whatever and was in the recent one about her comatose mother and the Jin and her daughter.
At first I thought Day was another actress just playing a nerd, but I've since found out that she's a legit nerd like her character (I saw Will Wheton's Table Top Gaming channel with her in apperances)...apparently she double majored in music (violin) and mathematics as well. Before she was just kind of cute, but a legit nerd, smart, and plays a good instrument?
She has elevated herself to sexy..at least in my book.
You do know that season 8 wrapped up last week right?
Geeky != nerdy.
Really? What's the difference?
All of the letters except the second and last, of course.
Geeky != nerdy.Really? What's the difference?
A geek is either someone who's deeply passionate about a particular subject (a film geek, a baseball geek, a language geek), or someone who self-identifies as a geek and participates in subcultures/fandoms that fall under the umbrella of geek culture (tech, scifi/fantasy, gaming, comic books, etc.).
A nerd is someone with poor social skills, no sense of fashion, and obsessive devotion to non-mainstream interests.
There's certainly a lot of overlap between the two demographics, but not all geeks are nerds. There are plenty of geeky men and women who are not socially inept.
While this is a movie not a TV show it is noteworthy because it featured a table top RPG that is not D&D. The movie is Cloak and Dagger from 1984. Anybody besides me remember this one?
Geeky != nerdy.Really? What's the difference?A geek is either someone who's deeply passionate about a particular subject (a film geek, a baseball geek, a language geek), or someone who self-identifies as a geek and participates in subcultures/fandoms that fall under the umbrella of geek culture (tech, scifi/fantasy, gaming, comic books, etc.).
A nerd is someone with poor social skills, no sense of fashion, and obsessive devotion to non-mainstream interests.
There's certainly a lot of overlap between the two demographics, but not all geeks are nerds. There are plenty of geeky men and women who are not socially inept.
Going by the official definitions, that's only one of them.
1: a carnival performer often billed as a wild man whose act usually includes biting the head off a live chicken or snake
2: a person often of an intellectual bent who is disliked
3: an enthusiast or expert especially in a technological field or activity <computer geek>
1: an unstylish, unattractive, or socially inept person;
2: one slavishly devoted to intellectual or academic pursuits <computer nerds>
Generally definition 2 of Nerd and 2/3 of Geek is what people mean when they say they're the same thing. There's quite little difference between the two.
Geek and nerd are interchangeable where I come from... Both are insults, unless used by other geeks or nerds.
I have been called a history nerd and a computer geek.
Geeky != nerdy.Really? What's the difference?A geek is either someone who's deeply passionate about a particular subject (a film geek, a baseball geek, a language geek), or someone who self-identifies as a geek and participates in subcultures/fandoms that fall under the umbrella of geek culture (tech, scifi/fantasy, gaming, comic books, etc.).
A nerd is someone with poor social skills, no sense of fashion, and obsessive devotion to non-mainstream interests.
There's certainly a lot of overlap between the two demographics, but not all geeks are nerds. There are plenty of geeky men and women who are not socially inept.
Thanks. I wonder if it's a US-Australia thing. I'm pretty sure they're interchangeable here and that even nerds can be socially ept.
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Really, the only thing in that Big Bang Theory episode that I reacted to negatively was "I've never played D&D with girls," "No one has, sweety."
My gaming group in college included women. Since then, I've met quite a few women players. What Penny said isn't true.
On the other hand, while Penny's statement is inaccurate, I wouldn't expect an accurate statement from someone who isn't a member of a particular community, doesn't care about describing that community accurately, and is trying to poke fun at her boyfriend for his membership in the community. Amy could have said something just as inaccurate about model train enthusiasts to rile Sheldon up.
Maybe the writers could have added a line where Leonard named a girl he's played D&D with before, if they could have worked a joke into it. Still, it's not a sitcom writer's job to educate the public about subcultures. Their job is to make jokes.
By rolling "D&D dice", not sure how often you tell your gaming friends 'pass over the "D&D dice"' when you mean D20, or d6, but for me that really shows that BBT is not for nerds, but about nerds.
To be fair, if I was as OCD as Sheldon I'd probably have a separate set of dice for every game I play. So 'my "D&D dice"' would make sense in that context.
Of course, if I was that OCD I would not use my "D&D dice" for non-D&D activities. I'd have a separate set of "life decision dice".
By rolling "D&D dice", not sure how often you tell your gaming friends 'pass over the "D&D dice"' when you mean D20, or d6, but for me that really shows that BBT is not for nerds, but about nerds.To be fair, if I was as OCD as Sheldon I'd probably have a separate set of dice for every game I play. So 'my "D&D dice"' would make sense in that context.
Of course, if I was that OCD I would not use my "D&D dice" for non-D&D activities. I'd have a separate set of "life decision dice".
True. And to be honest so long as the portrayal isn't overwhelmingly negative (as you can tell from the BBT thread debate), getting PRG's to a wider audience is a good thing (especially for sales for paizo).
Anyway back to closer topic, I believe there was a show called Erica, where she LARP's. Possibly with the help of her psychiatrist, who might have been the co-ordinator. Unfortunately it was badly scheduled so I didn't watch many episodes.
You do know that season 8 wrapped up last week right?I'm glad Supernatural came up because I'm an avid fan...well at least of S 1-5. Six kind of eh and 7 has only gotten better toward the end. They're going to make an 8 as well...I also found out from one of their extra videos of them at COMICON (I usually watch Supernatural on their site) that apparently I'm watching this show with along with a bunch of rabid 14 year old Asian girls. I'm not quite sure what this says about me.......
Spoiler:ANYWHO, Felicia Day has been in a number of episodes. Her IMDB shows 3 episodes but I could swear it was more. I believe she showed up near the end of last season as an employee of "Dick's" corporation and got sucked into the conflict. She was used as a hacker girl to get in and I believe she mentioned she had a tattoo of a naked girl on top of a d20 (she's a lesbian in the show ..not sure about real life). I think she showed up in a finale episode of that season as well to help.She was in the LARP episode as the queen nerd or whatever and was in the recent one about her comatose mother and the Jin and her daughter.
At first I thought Day was another actress just playing a nerd, but I've since found out that she's a legit nerd like her character (I saw Will Wheton's Table Top Gaming channel with her in apperances)...apparently she double majored in music (violin) and mathematics as well. Before she was just kind of cute, but a legit nerd, smart, and plays a good instrument?
She has elevated herself to sexy..at least in my book.
You mean this week? As in: Today?
I'm going to have to roll my eyes at trying to raise any group up on a notch in the Unpopular Hierarchy. It's all the same no matter how you try to sugar coat your group.
And since you are posting on the messageboards of an RPG game company, you are assuredly a member of at least one such group yourself.
I do agree with your statement though, the supposed Geek Hierarchy is a sham, with many of us looking down upon whatever groups to which we do not belong, and outsiders looking down upon us all equally.
Geeky != nerdy.Really? What's the difference?A geek is either someone who's deeply passionate about a particular subject (a film geek, a baseball geek, a language geek), or someone who self-identifies as a geek and participates in subcultures/fandoms that fall under the umbrella of geek culture (tech, scifi/fantasy, gaming, comic books, etc.).
A nerd is someone with poor social skills, no sense of fashion, and obsessive devotion to non-mainstream interests.
There's certainly a lot of overlap between the two demographics, but not all geeks are nerds. There are plenty of geeky men and women who are not socially inept.
The more I think about it the more your definition appears to be very wrong. There are a monumental number of nerdy men any women who are very socially adept. Carl Sagan, Professor Brian Cox, Dr Pamella Gay, Dr Karl Kruszelnicki, Neil Degrass Tyson, Dr Julius Sumner Miller, Professor Mary Beard I could keep going.
The disservice and danger your definition presents is magnified when it comes to women. For example, Professor Beard presented one of the most fascinating documentaries on the people of ancient Rome I have ever seen, she is a brilliant communicator but because of her appearance, her age, the way she walked and talked there was a controversy (aside from political controversies of her own making that (some opinions she has expressed that I disagree with).
It's hard enough to get shows that have women presenting Science and history they also generally are only allowed to be good looking presenters as well (Bettany Hughes, Dr Alice Roberts, Kari Byron). I suggest you start de- stigmatising the word nerd and using it interchangeably with you definition of geek (which I like).
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The fundamental difference between geeks and nerds is that geeks actually understand and are usually proficient in the areas of their interest.
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Is arguing over the definitions of specific epithets geeky or nerdy?
And band != orchestra.
Yeah, band doesn't suck to listen to because it's a lot easier to get them all in the same key.
Is arguing over the definitions of specific epithets geeky or nerdy?
If the arguments presented are rational, factual and presented in a consistent, coherent and convincing manner, then geeky.
If the arguments presented are irrational, emotional, opinions presented as facts and accompanied by appeals to unrecognized authority, then nerdy.
Geeky != nerdy.Really? What's the difference?A geek is either someone who's deeply passionate about a particular subject (a film geek, a baseball geek, a language geek), or someone who self-identifies as a geek and participates in subcultures/fandoms that fall under the umbrella of geek culture (tech, scifi/fantasy, gaming, comic books, etc.).
A nerd is someone with poor social skills, no sense of fashion, and obsessive devotion to non-mainstream interests.
There's certainly a lot of overlap between the two demographics, but not all geeks are nerds. There are plenty of geeky men and women who are not socially inept.
The more I think about it the more your definition appears to be very wrong. There are a monumental number of nerdy men any women who are very socially adept. Carl Sagan, Professor Brian Cox, Dr Pamella Gay, Dr Karl Kruszelnicki, Neil Degrass Tyson, Dr Julius Sumner Miller, Professor Mary Beard I could keep going.
The disservice and danger your definition presents is magnified when it comes to women. For example, Professor Beard presented one of the most fascinating documentaries on the people of ancient Rome I have ever seen, she is a brilliant communicator but because of her appearance, her age, the way she walked and talked there was a controversy (aside from political controversies of her own making that (some opinions she has expressed that I disagree with).
It's hard enough to get shows that have women presenting Science and history they also generally are only allowed to be good looking presenters as well (Bettany Hughes, Dr Alice Roberts, Kari Byron). I suggest you start de- stigmatising the word nerd and using it interchangeably with you definition of geek (which I like).
I'm not trying to de-stigmatize or stigmatize, or define or redefine anything. I'm talking about how I hear the words get used among people my age and younger.
People self-identify as geeks without self-deprecation and often with pride, both in the sense of specific forms of geekery ("I'm a film geek" or "I'm geeking out because I love WWII history") and in the sense of identifying with geek culture ("Well of course I'm a geek! We're having this conversation in a comics store!").
I have yet to hear anyone self-identify as a "nerd" without self-deprecation, and have only heard it used about third parties in a negative sense. ("Well, he may not have come off well in the interview, since he's kind of shy and nerdy.")
That said, I don't see that de-stigmatizing the term "nerd" does anything for women (I don't see that it has anything to do with women -- if you want to talk about the gendering of the terms "nerd" or "geek," that's a valid conversation to have, but I don't see any clear correlation between stigmatization of the term "nerd" and gender), whereas it does fill what would otherwise be a linguistic gap in identifying people who are obsessive, shy, socially awkward, etc. (I have to use at least three words to get the sense of "nerdy," there.)
The term "nerd" would never have entered my head for the people you listed. But saying, "hey, this word that we use to mean 'socially awkward' shouldn't mean 'socially awkward' because these people aren't socially awkward," doesn't make sense. It's like saying, "we shouldn't use the term 'brunette' to mean 'dark-haired' because these people are blonde." OK, that means you shouldn't call those people brunettes, not that the definition of the word is wrong. Neil Degrasse Tyson is bright, passionate and knowledgeable about science. He also is clearly comfortable in mainstream settings and has excellent social skills. Therefore he's not a nerd.
Hm. Interestingly, some dictionaries (in this case "The Free Dictionary" define those two words pretty much exactly alike. I also use them synonymously in regular speech (and have referred to myself as a nerd more often than I've referred to myself as a geek):
Geek:
1a. A person regarded as foolish, inept, or clumsy.
1b. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
2. A carnival performer whose show consists of bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.
Nerd:
1. A foolish, inept, or unattractive person.
2. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
Dictionary definitions generally lag behind colloquial usage, though, since widespread usage is what gets words or meanings into dictionaries. Try googling "geek vs. nerd." While I don't generally see a consensus on the minutiae of the distinctions, I do see a pretty clear overall difference when it comes to how people view geeks' vs. nerds' social interaction.
So a geek is more clumsy and may work at the circus, while a nerd is more unattractive. Got it.
Geek, nerd, same thing.
Geek, nerd, same thing.
Pathfinder, D&D, same thing...
Hama, I am a word person. I love the subtle differences in connotations that different words apply.
In general use the connotations of "nerd" are almost wholly negative, while the connotations of "geek" are a mix of negative and positive. Since I appreciate the importance of connotation, I try to guide people to use the words appropriately so that those connotations can be reinforced and eventually embedded in their definitions. This is important because the world NEEDS a way to distinguish between actual accomplished individuals (geeks) and poseurs and incompetents (nerds) when discussing those of us with out-of-the-mainstream hobbies and interests.
This must be something constrained to certain localities. In actual general usage (TV, movies, Internet, etc.) they're effectively the same word.
I identify with being a geek in its modern usage, which has indeed gained a new definition in our culture. The dictionary will catch up. I like what geeks like. I think like they think. I have been labeled a geek over the last few years, and always with affection.
I do not identify with being a nerd, nor has anyone ever labeled me one. My own connotations for the word nerd do favor a derogatory pronouncement.
Just one geek's personal story/viewpoint, anyhoo.
This must be something constrained to certain localities. In actual general usage (TV, movies, Internet, etc.) they're effectively the same word.
In some linguistic backwaters that have yet to be brought into the 21st century, that's probably true.
Case in point that "general" usage of the word "nerd" is not any more negative than "geek" would be Gamerati's tagline on G+ today:
Our friends over at +LockerGnome did a fantastic interview piece with the lovely Joanna Gaskell to discuss all things nerdy, Standard Action and more!
Personal preference for one term or another does not connotate general usage.
Really, it's just label elitism. Someone decided that they prefer the term geek, and now seek to distance themselves from the term nerd by applying derogatory definitions to it so that they may look down on those they wish to label as nerd.
Case in point that "general" usage of the word "nerd" is not any more negative than "geek" would be Gamerati's tagline on G+ today:
Our friends over at +LockerGnome did a fantastic interview piece with the lovely Joanna Gaskell to discuss all things nerdy, Standard Action and more!Personal preference for one term or another does not connotate general usage.
Really, it's just label elitism. Someone decided that they prefer the term geek, and now seek to distance themselves from the term nerd by applying derogatory definitions to it.
Yes Brian, that's how languages evolve.
I don't mind doing my bit to make language evolve the way I think it should. I admit I lost that battle back in the 90s with "hacker" but I'm an optimist and think my preferred definitions of "geek" and "nerd" will become the standard within a few years. They are definitely progressing in that direction.
Says who? A commonly accepted source, or personal preference?
Y'know, the "Geek vs. Nerd" argument is rather reminiscent of this chart, which offended the delicate sensibilities of so many on this forum:
It isn't label elitism in my case, Brian.
I don't personally distance myself from the term nerd by stating how I've seen it used as it has been used in my lifetime, which is - barring the name of a candy brand - always been derogatorily.
It's the term geek that has changed, and gained acceptance as a trait with some redeeming social value.
My motivation in weighing in here is purely to define language as I've seen it defined and evolve over my years through the many places I've lived and visited, and the many movies, TV shows and books I've consumed. Language, both traditional on modern usage, is something I notice and care about.
That's fine.
What I'm arguing is, there's no overall general negative connotation to one word or the other - they're pretty equal in that respect.
A quick googling will show a great number of "positive" uses of the word "nerd" - quantities that should disabuse all but those with their fingers in their ears of the notion that the word is "generally" any more derogatory than the word geek.