Villain conversations?

[Tinalles]

So, as a GM, I try to work out interesting villains. They have definite goals, reasonably detailed backgrounds, and motivations beyond greed/bloodlust/power hunger.

But it's rare for any of that to actually come out in game, because there's rarely any good opportunity for the villain to role play with the PCs. If you put a group of PCs into a room with a villain, the villain is going to get dead or fled in short order.

Mostly, I'm okay with that. I don't need to recite backstory at them for no reason. But it does rather limit the dramatic repertoire when you can't get a good villainous monlogue in, much less a Palpatine-style "With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant" recruitment speech.

So ... any suggestions on how to foster PC-to-villain role play that doesn't instantly turn into a bloodbath?

[ParagonDireRaccoon]

You could have villains who occasionally assist the pcs, when this furthers the villain's goals. A villain may have a vested interest in stopping a dragon or preventing an orc invasion, or may assist the pcs in stopping the plan of rival villain.

You can also have villains who have ties to the pcs, maybe a renegade member of a religious, knightly, or mystical order one of the pcs belongs to.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Standoffs are the best way. If one side has something the other side wants--even if it's just the key to their cell--they are generally much more eager to chat.

You could also introduce the villain in an area where the PC can't fight--a monastery, for instance, or in a room full of children. Maybe one of the heroes goes to visit his little sister and finds the villain there sitting next to two dolls having tea with her. Does the hero reveal the villain's nature and put at risk an innocent child, or does he sit down, pour himself a cup, and subtly try to urge the villain to leave?

[Spook205]

Correspondance.

Have the PCs encounter the villains' writings, his letters to his underlings, his underling's letters to each other about him.

Have the villain send messages, or have the villain send the heroes letters.

The eternal problem of tabletop is when the villain is in the same room as the heroes, he's probably going to be dead soon or the DM has to rely on tricks like 'you lose him in the crowd' or 'he disappears' or the like.

[Tinalles]

Good suggestions. Actually, I can see how a standoff could be combined with the villain helping the PCs in a session scheduled for this weekend, so yay!

The room full of children one makes me nervous, though. I can easily see that going badly.

[Zog of Deadwood]

You will often not wish to TELL the players that the person with whom the PCs are interacting is a villain. They can interact with this person in noncombatant settings, perhaps even with this person acting as quest giver, before the big reveal. With luck, the PCs will then want to know more about motivations and will be willing to talk or at least listen before combat ensues.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Yeah, the room full of children idea depends on the PCs not being psychotic jackasses. Which is a tall order. :P

[trollbill]

Remember villains always get the Uninterruptable Monologue as a free feat.

[Kimera757]

I heard about a campaign where the villain communicated through letters, which he left on his minions.

At first, they were just instructions. Then later he was upset about how his minions kept failing him. Then he left letters to the PCs (by name) because he'd figured out they were reading them by now.

[EWHM]

Send a simulacrum of the villian to do such monologue or negotiation. Holy ground is another popular trope, at low levels, simply a neutral city that has the resources to seriously frown on mayhem inside its walls works too. It helps if a reasonably fraction of your villians are evil rather than EVIL, with some even neutral but with objectives that are opposed to those of the party. You can also have him visit them in dreams a la 'The Golden Child'.

[MrSin]

Depends on the villains. One shot villains I don't usually expect to give much depth. They have a habit of showing up at the end of the day laugh maniacally getting run through without much personality. On the other hand, long running villains have many chances to introduce themselves through actions, subordinates, and any leftovers(messages is the example given above, but also hostages, and other people who experience him work).

When I introduce a villain I want to run for a while, I like to introduce them in a way they can't be killed or they can escape if anyone does something rash. He sits behind a wall of minions or fire and monologues and takes actions against them. He introduce himself in a crowd. He disables the party long before meeting them and keeps their weapons out of reach. If he's smart he'll hold all the cards and think ahead of the group and he won't put himself at risk of an immediate death. Just be careful not to totally steal the show with a villain, its not about him, but he's important to the story. I get tired of 2 dimensional or mary sue villains myself.

[Lincoln Hills]

One situation I've used is the "prisoner exchange" scenario, in which NPCs representing good and evil factions have previously set up an exchange of prisoners. The PCs were easily roped into this because the leader of the good faction asked them to attend the exchange - their personal abilities were substantial enough to help deter any plans the villains may have had about going back on their word. The nice part about the set-up is that if the GM (or the PCs) intend for the exchange to go sour, you've got a fight with plenty of complications (unarmed prisoners) to keep things interesting, and if they don't, you can introduce any number of NPCs on the villain side. It's also a great time to introduce a character who's working for the villains but is supposed to be a sympathetic character that the PCs might choose to spare.

[Mark Thomas 66]

If you're villian is a spell caster you can allow him to speak through his dead minions. That can make for some real creepiness.

Have the heroes find the scrying devices he's been using to track their movements as the wade through his flunkies, except these also allow him to taunt them via a voice or illusion.

Also, Stasis Clone, can make for a nice Dr. Doom style plot twist.

[Tinalles]

Good stuff. I especially like the hostage exchange idea -- that one's not something I could use immediately, but I'll definitely keep it in mind for future.

[Ascalaphus]

Both the villain and the PCs are members of some somewhat civil society; i.e. you're not allowed to just randomly attack people on the streets for "being a villain, even though I've got no proof yet". Randomly attacking people will get you into trouble with The Authorities, who'll confiscate your magic weapons and you can eventually get them back by filling in blue form 7a in triplicate, then waiting 2-8 weeks for a reply...

There's the villain on the other side of the chasm trick, which works until the PCs have Fly spells and good bows.

Invisible villain with a Message spell, talking to some of the PCs. Or the Whispering Wind spell.

Maybe the villain tells people he kills what they should tell people who Speak With Dead with them.

Programmed Illusions. Magic Mouths.

Villain casts Wall of Force, and readies an action to teleport away if the wall is penetrated or bypassed.

[Spook205]

Getaway, Teleport and the like are always good for villains.
Word of Recall's a good one too if he's a cleric/has cleric allies.

Expeditious Retreat, Jump and Dimension Door are generally less effective as they are still within 'active range,' of the party.

Baron Horribulis teleports 20 miles away is 'damnit he got away'

Baron Horribulis dimension doors 400ft away is 'lets get him!'

Also a lot of heroes these days don't ascribe to the 'let the villain blab' school. They generally try to put him down. I don't know if this means PCs are more ruthless, or that typically written heroes are dullards, or some elements of both.

Another good trick is the 'We have bigger fish to fry.'

Baron Horribulis kicks over a brazier and runs for it, the orphange starts to light on fire, and the Baron's Horrible Barber Shop Quartet of Fire Giant Bards arrive to decimate the innocent in a wholesome old timey way. Leaving the party to decide: The Baron, or the innocent. And if they're good aligned, they'll get ready to beat up some straw-hat wearing singing giants.

One thing I do stress too is don't let the party get free repositions when he's talking. I have a barbarian player who likes to have his character literally try to just walk up right next to the guy.

[Ascalaphus]

It can also be a good idea to just have a brief chat with the players about this. "Hey guys, I know you want to beat him up because he's the BBEG, and that's fine. But wouldn't you like to hear just a little bit more about the plot before you beat your best source of information into a fine pulp?"

I think it's not even an unreasonable idea for the PCs to try to move into better positions (within reason) during a BBEG monologue. It gives the players a nice tactical motive for letting him talk; while he's doing that we're moving the wizard to the rear and the barbarian into charging distance. But if the PCs do so too blatantly or too fast, the BBEG will stop the speech and auto-win initiative (no surprise).

Point out that during the villain's speech, PCs can also take Perception checks and suchlike to figure out where the BBEG's reserve troups might come from, what kind of armor everyone is wearing, what kind of buffs might be active on them and all that. In short "let him talk, that gives us time to prepare".

If this goes well enough the PC bard might to use Bluff to keep the villain speeching for much longer so the PC rogue can sneak up on the BBEG's wizard assistant. "Keep him talking"

[TriMarkC]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Standoffs are the best way. If one side has something the other side wants--even if it's just the key to their cell--they are generally much more eager to chat.

You could also introduce the villain in an area where the PC can't fight--a monastery, for instance, or in a room full of children. Maybe one of the heroes goes to visit his little sister and finds the villain there sitting next to two dolls having tea with her. Does the hero reveal the villain's nature and put at risk an innocent child, or does he sit down, pour himself a cup, and subtly try to urge the villain to leave?

I wish I had seen this when current PCs were still lower levels! Going to file this idea!

[Lady Asharah]

I like hidden villains.

PC may be aware of the villain's actions but not their identity, and then find out that some guy they have talked to in the past, who may have even helped them and generally considered them on friendly terms is actually the villain.

[Tim Emrick]

Other kinds of leverage work nicely, too, if you can engineer them in-game. For example, the villain has already set a plot into action, such as cursing or poisoning a loved one or ally of the PCs, and only they have the means to remove the affliction--which will, of course, prove fatal (or worse) if not stopped. They use this threat as insurance to parley with the PCs, in order to demand something they want in return for the cure. It's a great way for the villain to make a lasting impression on the PCs, who will *really* hate them now. That will make the villain's eventual comeuppance all that much more satisfying, if they can pull it off.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Have some mistaken identity: have a bad guy that is actually a good guy sent to kill the questgiver that is actually a bad guy.

Have an awesomely terrifying bad guy whose motivations are bizarrely non-sequitur, and in the end, the party might shrug their shoulders and let them win.

Create situations where if the party acts rashly, winning their battles might have unanticipated consequences so that they did more harm than good, or almost more.

[McDaygo]

A Hidden Villain (Vigilante) not only working through a proxy (has an underling pose as him in same room as social at some point to throw “heros” off scent he is actually the bad guy. Logic being if heroes see bad guy dressed as joker (lets assume Joker is your villain in this scenario) stat social identify in the gut with a merciful dagger (something a high bluff check can make the act seem more painful then it is) will get him off their radars. Have him then “help” the PCs by manipulating their missions to further his goals until you decide he is far enough in his plan to be stopped OR remember in some stories the bad guy actually wins in the end. They can all die before stopping his scheme (fast forward time now) starts a second generation of characters meant to stop the tyranny of this villain and this is where he gets his upcommance (one of the only times I think its OK to purposely TPK a group is if for the narrative of the story but tell your players it is a deadly game and chances like this could happen)

[Da Brain]

Sending spell, sent to the PCs...

bonus points if the PCs reply is exactly 25 words...

And something like This would make it even better!

[EldonGuyre]

I have a situation where a villain is one of the leaders of society - a few of them, actually, but one is so much more overt, as a priest of a god of tyranny and slavery. Many people support him, as the society very much depends on slaves, and as a tyrant, he's not so bad...