|
Alrighty, I am new to PF, and especially PFS I have a level 4 cleric and thats my only character. he is fun but I set him up as a heal bot with melee second (it was more the "for the party" option) but now I want to be selfish and get into combat....
I am looking to diversify with another Character, wanting to role a Blade Bound Magus, they looking good and II think I like em.
But how do I play it right, I have read lots and got all confused. I have been told I should get my rapier to adamantine prior to level 3 for the hardness but can't for the life of me work out why (it has some DR bypass, but does not mithril for the demon dr make sense, what sets Adamantine apart?)
I have gone for a Dervish Design, currently weapon finesse with Rapier so I can use my dex on my attack rolls.
str 12
dex 16
con 13
int 15
wis 12
cha 10
There was a reason I had wis as 12 for the +1 and the int 15 +2 but I forget them at this moment in time.
Feed back on my character design is more than appreciated, but the real Question is how do I make the best of this character, I understand I can Cast a spell, use a 5 foot step and then melee attack.
So for the sp[ells thus far, 0 levels are Acid Splash, Ray of Frost and Read Magic, I have read people recommend Arcane Mark but why? I cannot find info on how to use it, I right a symbol of the person but what else??? (1st level Unseen Servent to trip traps on doors etc, and Shocking Grasp cause, well it's good against people wearing metal armour)
So from what I understand I can
1) Cast Ray of Frost or Acid Splash as ranges spells
2) 5 foot step into Combat
3) Melee Attack
(or reverse melee, 5ft then magic)
now to totally confuse things, there is swift and free actions which I keep getting confused where they come into it.
Apart from the guide on creating a magus, is there any "play" guides or any advice how to do this properly??? sorry for all the noob questions.
|
|
Hmmm...by level 3 is a tall order. It's nice, but that means sacrificing on other things. It's not even a total necessity to have adamantine. That does make it almost unbreakable, but hey.
I'll be honest, I've never understood the significance people put on Arcane Mark. Shocking Grasp is your big damage spell. If you Intensify it, you can run it to 10d6 by 10th level...and there's a trait that will allow a free 1 lvl metamagic bump for 1 spell, which is often used with Shocking Grasp. In Pathfinder, it won't give you the bonus on metal armor. Here's the fun, though...once you can use Spellstrike (2nd lvl) you can channel it through the rapier and crit when the rapier crits. :)
Arcane Mark is a cantrip you can Spell Combat/Spellstrike with. The only reason to use it is that you can use the Spell Combat/Spell Strike combo to essentially TWF without having to use limited spells per day. It's pretty much just "I make a concentration check, then hit you twice at a -2".
Here's a guide to Touch Spells, Spellstrike, and Spell Combat.
So, Arcane Mark is there only to access free attacks? I can dig it.
|
|
Arcane Mark is a cantrip you can Spell Combat/Spellstrike with. The only reason to use it is that you can use the Spell Combat/Spell Strike combo to essentially TWF without having to use limited spells per day.
Here's a guide to Touch Spells, Spellstrike, and Spell Combat.
Which gives you a penalty, and no appreciable bonus...as far as I can figure. *shrug*.
So, Arcane Mark is there only to access free attacks? I can dig it.What free attacks? It's considered a part of a 2-weapon...and you don't get any more out of the main hand...so...what extra attacks?
The free attack you get per Spellstrike to deliver a touch attack.
|
|
The free attack you get per Spellstrike to deliver a touch attack.So, Arcane Mark is there only to access free attacks? I can dig it.What free attacks? It's considered a part of a 2-weapon...and you don't get any more out of the main hand...so...what extra attacks?
But a touch attack does no damage...I mean, you could always punch, I guess...and have a bigger chance of a miss...and do something...
...but that provokes an AoO unless I have Improved Unarmed.
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
There's your free attack.
|
|
alrighty somone posted before me lol
So Do you need arcane mark for this free attack? as I read it with spell strike
I cast Shocking Grasp, as part of this I get a free melee attack so
Melee Attack, (with rapier) if successful
Spell Attacks and then
I get my normal standard Melee Attack (without a spell on it?)
am I reading it right?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'll go ahead and address your post point by point here.
I am looking to diversify with another Character, wanting to role a Blade Bound Magus, they looking good and II think I like em.
But how do I play it right, I have read lots and got all confused. I have been told I should get my rapier to adamantine prior to level 3 for the hardness but can't for the life of me work out why (it has some DR bypass, but does not mithril for the demon dr make sense, what sets Adamantine apart?)
Bladebound is definitely a solid choice when you're looking for something different. Saves a lot of money on your weapon.
Adamantine is a good choice because it makes your weapon darn near invulnerable, and you can't change its material after you get your black blade. It also cuts through hardness if you're interested in sundering things (which, contrary to popular belief, does not ruin your chances at getting new equipment; in normal games, the spell mending fixes it, and in PFS you get access to purchase anything special after the game anyways). This makes it a good choice against equipment-reliant enemies, but they aren't super common.
I have gone for a Dervish Design, currently weapon finesse with Rapier so I can use my dex on my attack rolls.
str 12
dex 16
con 13
int 15
wis 12
cha 10There was a reason I had wis as 12 for the +1 and the int 15 +2 but I forget them at this moment in time.
For Dervish Dancing, I wouldn't suggest having the 12 Str. I wouldn't suggest necessarily dumping it, but you really don't need it to have any bonuses, as it will become useless to you at 3rd level. Also, the Wis isn't necessary since you have a strong Will save. If you're willing to deal with the low stats, this is what I'd suggest:
Str 9
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 7
If you'd rather not dump things, then this is what I'd suggest:
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 10
Both give you plenty of options to work with, and yes you can definitely roleplay just fine with a low Cha. The first will make you have more HP and more spells, the latter will let you work through social encounters a bit more easily.
Feed back on my character design is more than appreciated, but the real Question is how do I make the best of this character, I understand I can Cast a spell, use a 5 foot step and then melee attack.
Making the best use of your character really depends on what kind of situation you're in, and that just comes from experience and system mastery (which also comes from experience). In general, just see what, if anything, you have that can apply to a situation. If it's a situation that the group needs help with, and you have a way to help, then do that; if not, then don't worry about it.
You can also talk to your group. Generally people are willing to help a new person, especially one willing and eager to learn and help. That really is the best advice I can give for any tabletop rpg.
So for the sp[ells thus far, 0 levels are Acid Splash, Ray of Frost and Read Magic, I have read people recommend Arcane Mark but why? I cannot find info on how to use it, I right a symbol of the person but what else??? (1st level Unseen Servent to trip traps on doors etc, and Shocking Grasp cause, well it's good against people wearing metal armour)
Okay, arcane mark is used to get a free attack out of Spellstrike when you hit 2nd level without spending a limited resource. It's a touch range spell (note: not a ranged touch spell; those are different than just a touch range), which you then channel through an additional attack with your weapon. I would suggest reading this post for more help on how Spellstrike and Spell Combat work. It's a long read, but very helpful for navigating the rules and special conditions surrounding the Magi's abilities.
Also of note, shocking grasp is far more useful than just against enemies with metal armor. It does 1d6 damage per caster level, and with the Magical Lineage trait (with shocking grasp chosen) you can use Intensify Spell on it later to get it up to a max of 10d6 bonus damage to your attack.
So from what I understand I can
1) Cast Ray of Frost or Acid Splash as ranges spells
2) 5 foot step into Combat
3) Melee Attack
(or reverse melee, 5ft then magic)
This works, or you can just cast the spell defensively and take the concentration check. This will be somewhat difficult to make at first, but gets much easier later.
now to totally confuse things, there is swift and free actions which I keep getting confused where they come into it.
I would suggest reading this section as well as the next for how swift and free actions work. The gist is, though, that you can take as many free actions as you want during a turn, as they normally take very little/no time. Swift actions, though, take about as much time as a free action, but you only get one per turn. They're similar, but different.
Apart from the guide on creating a magus, is there any "play" guides or any advice how to do this properly??? sorry for all the noob questions.
Like I said earlier, talk with your group. If you're having trouble understanding a rule or want to know if there's a way you can help, just ask the other players. They should be happy to help you figure out how you can pitch in during your first games. Also ask before you start if there is any gear you should have that you don't already; again, they should be happy to help you figure out what you are missing, and what you should be looking to get.
Hope everything goes well for you.
As for the discussion above on arcane mark, yes it gives you a "free" attack with Spellstrike. Spellstrike gives you an additional attack that you channel a spell cast with Spell Combat through when you full attack. Arcane mark is a touch range spell that works with Spellstrike. Cast arcane mark with Spell Combat, full attack, and Spellstrike your arcane mark. This also means that if you fail the concentration check for casting defensively, or you miss your attack, you don't waste a spell slot.
|
|
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.There's your free attack.
That's just poor wording. I don't expect anybody I know would ever allow it.
|
|
I'll go ahead and address your post point by point here.
I am looking to diversify with another Character, wanting to role a Blade Bound Magus, they looking good and II think I like em.
But how do I play it right, I have read lots and got all confused. I have been told I should get my rapier to adamantine prior to level 3 for the hardness but can't for the life of me work out why (it has some DR bypass, but does not mithril for the demon dr make sense, what sets Adamantine apart?)
Bladebound is definitely a solid choice when you're looking for something different. Saves a lot of money on your weapon.
Adamantine is a good choice because it makes your weapon darn near invulnerable, and you can't change its material after you get your black blade. It also cuts through hardness if you're interested in sundering things (which, contrary to popular belief, does not ruin your chances at getting new equipment; in normal games, the spell mending fixes it, and in PFS you get access to purchase anything special after the game anyways). This makes it a good choice against equipment-reliant enemies, but they aren't super common.
I have gone for a Dervish Design, currently weapon finesse with Rapier so I can use my dex on my attack rolls.
str 12
dex 16
con 13
int 15
wis 12
cha 10There was a reason I had wis as 12 for the +1 and the int 15 +2 but I forget them at this moment in time.
For Dervish Dancing, I wouldn't suggest having the 12 Str. I wouldn't suggest necessarily dumping it, but you really don't need it to have any bonuses, as it will become useless to you at 3rd level. Also, the Wis isn't necessary since you have a strong Will save. If you're willing to deal with the low stats, this is what I'd suggest:
Str 9
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 7If you'd rather not dump things, then this is what I'd suggest:
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 10Both give you plenty of options to work with, and...
Dropping below a 12 Str means probably going into medium encumbrance if you carry just a little bit more than absolute basics and armor.
That's just poor wording. I don't expect anybody I know would ever allow it.Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.There's your free attack.
There has been a great deal of discussion on it, and while no official word has been said, the general consensus is that it works RAW. In a home game, it's all on the GM to figure out if they want to allow it or not (as it is with anything).
I personally see no problem with it. It far from makes the Magus overpowered; they're already MAD with 3/4 BAB and less casting than a full caster. At low levels, where this is really most useful, they're lagging behind in both parts, so a small buff to their resource-less damage isn't exactly an issue.
*Edit*
Dropping below a 12 Str means probably going into medium encumbrance if you carry just a little bit more than absolute basics and armor.
That's why you distribute the loot among the party until you get to selling what you don't want. And besides, going from a 10 to a 9 Str is only 3 fewer pounds of weight allowance. If that's what's killing your encumbrance, you were already in danger of hitting it anyways.
That's just poor wording. I don't expect anybody I know would ever allow it.Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.There's your free attack.There has been a great deal of discussion on it, and while no official word has been said, the general consensus is that it works RAW. In a home game, it's all on the GM to figure out if they want to allow it or not (as it is with anything).
I personally see no problem with it. It far from makes the Magus overpowered; they're already MAD with 3/4 BAB and less casting than a full caster. At low levels, where this is really most useful, they're lagging behind in both parts, so a small buff to their resource-less damage isn't exactly an issue.
The lead dev has made a post specifically about it here, and said he's cool with it and sees it within his rules.
The FAQ was updated to specifically allow it (people who didnt like it we're arguing Arcane Mark shouldn't work because it was a cantrip).
It is considered PFS RAW.
If someone isn't allowing Arcane Mark+Spell Strike, THEY are wrong, unless they're house ruling against a clearly allowed rule and every official post on the subject.
|
|
That's just poor wording. I don't expect anybody I know would ever allow it.Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.There's your free attack.There has been a great deal of discussion on it, and while no official word has been said, the general consensus is that it works RAW. In a home game, it's all on the GM to figure out if they want to allow it or not (as it is with anything).
I personally see no problem with it. It far from makes the Magus overpowered; they're already MAD with 3/4 BAB and less casting than a full caster. At low levels, where this is really most useful, they're lagging behind in both parts, so a small buff to their resource-less damage isn't exactly an issue.
The lead dev has made a post specifically about it here, and said he's cool with it and sees it within his rules.
The FAQ was updated to specifically allow it (people who didnt like it we're arguing Arcane Mark shouldn't work because it was a cantrip).
It is considered PFS RAW.
If someone isn't allowing Arcane Mark+Spell Strike, THEY are wrong, unless they're house...
I have no issue with using the Arcane Mark...but that they get an extra free attack as a part of a full attack that includes their full iterations with the weapon and a spell via the other hand...why the extra attack?
It's pure cheese.
Edit: I just read the FAQ there...and saw my mistake. Except for the crit...possible reach...what have you...it's not possible to do a spellstrike as a part of a full attack...which spell combat allows. That sucks a little. Maybe even a lot.
This argument has been made already, and you lost, EldonG. The rules say any touch attack spell gives you a free attack in the round you cast it. That includes Arcane mark. The Spell Combat rules say that as a full attack you can cast a spell and make all your normal iterative attacks either before or after casting, as longthe as you areget using a one-handed weapon and have a free hand, and you take a -2break on all attacks during that turn. Spellstrike says that any time you cast a magus spell with a touch attack, you can deliver it in the form of a melee weapon attack instead.
Boy, if you think that's cheesy, you should check out this feat called two-weapon fighting. It lets you attack twice in a round with -2 to the attacks at level 1 and you don't even take an AoO or have to make a concentration check!
|
|
It's not cheese. As a magus when you cast a touch spell you are specifically allowed a weapon attack to deliver it, in addition to your normal attacks.
It's not normal 'attacks'. It's an attack...I just got through looking at the FAQ. With spell combat, you get the full attack...with spellstrike, you can do that...and make an attack. What I'm seeing is it's no longer a part of a full attack...but simply an attack on its own.
Can a magus use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, move, and make a melee attack with a weapon to deliver the touch spell, all in the same round?
Yes. Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat. So, just like casting a touch spell, a magus could use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, take a move toward an enemy, then (as a free action) make a melee attack with his weapon to deliver the spell.
So the assumption, then, is it can be combined with spell combat?
How do you play a Magus?
There are basically two decisions to make with two choices each:
1) Strength or Dervish Dance
2) Shocking Grasp or Close Combat and Snowball
There's technically a third option (Hexcrafter debuffer) but that's complicated.
If you pick Strength, you have sub par AC until later levels, but you can use all your feats on whatever you like. You also deal more damage on AoOs.
If you pick Dervish Dance, your AC is good right away, but your damage blows until level 3 and you lose your first two feats.
Shocking Grasp is the default choice and has the minor benefit of costing you nothing special and giving you +3 to hit metal armor. The snowball build doesn't really work until 3rd, but it costs you an Arcana in exchange for a ranged option, the ability to stagger on a hit, ignoring SR, and the ability to put Rime metamagic on your main attack spell. In either case, you take Magical Lineage in your chosen spell.
No matter what you do, you use an 18-20/x2 crit weapon and make it Keen/take Improved Critical as soon as possible.
At first level, you kind of suck a little, but so does everyone and it doesn't last long.
At 2nd level on, on round one, you cast your chosen spell, move up to the enemy, and use your free attack from spellstrike to nail them, hoping for a nasty crit. Then you use Spellcombat to spam your chosen spell, again, basically just fishing for crits.
You're basically putting this spell in every slot you can spare and probably also eventually using spell recall/pearls of power on it.
After 5th level, you're dropping Intensified versions of the chosen spell, still for the first level slot. If you're a Snowball build, your 2nd level+ slots are full of Intensified Rime Snowballs.
This is pretty much what it looks like from then on.
I guess the short version is:
You play a Magus by spamming a low level touch spell with scaling damage while crit fishing. Magi are there for burst damage--that's their thing.
It's not cheese. As a magus when you cast a touch spell you are specifically allowed a weapon attack to deliver it, in addition to your normal attacks.It's not normal 'attacks'. It's an attack...I just got through looking at the FAQ. With spell combat, you get the full attack...with spellstrike, you can do that...and make an attack. What I'm seeing is it's no longer a part of a full attack...but simply an attack on its own.
So the assumption, then, is it can be combined with spell combat?Can a magus use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, move, and make a melee attack with a weapon to deliver the touch spell, all in the same round?
Yes. Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat. So, just like casting a touch spell, a magus could use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, take a move toward an enemy, then (as a free action) make a melee attack with his weapon to deliver the spell.
Not an assumption, it's RAW.
If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks.
That passage existing should prove that it is legal, as it's taken right out of the description of Spellstrike.
So the assumption, then, is it can be combined with spell combat?
Of course it can--if you used spellcombat to cast Shocking Grasp (the vast majority will), without spellstrike, you'd make all your normal attacks and then make a melee touch attack to deliver shocking grasp.
With spellstrike, you make all your normal attacks, then make a regular melee weapon attack to deliver shocking grasp. This is not as confusing as you're making it seem.
|
|
So the assumption, then, is it can be combined with spell combat?Of course it can--if you used spellcombat to cast Shocking Grasp (the vast majority will), without spellstrike, you'd make all your normal attacks and then make a melee touch attack to deliver shocking grasp.
With spellstrike, you make all your normal attacks, then make a regular melee weapon attack to deliver shocking grasp. This is not as confusing as you're making it seem.
My issue was people kept saying spellstrike would do it...by itself, it doesn't. That is a bit confusing. :p
|
|
It's not cheese. As a magus when you cast a touch spell you are specifically allowed a weapon attack to deliver it, in addition to your normal attacks.It's not normal 'attacks'. It's an attack...I just got through looking at the FAQ. With spell combat, you get the full attack...with spellstrike, you can do that...and make an attack. What I'm seeing is it's no longer a part of a full attack...but simply an attack on its own.
So the assumption, then, is it can be combined with spell combat?Can a magus use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, move, and make a melee attack with a weapon to deliver the touch spell, all in the same round?
Yes. Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat. So, just like casting a touch spell, a magus could use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, take a move toward an enemy, then (as a free action) make a melee attack with his weapon to deliver the spell.
Not an assumption, it's RAW.
If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks.That passage existing should prove that it is legal, as it's taken right out of the description of Spellstrike.
Right. Cool. I wish someone would have mentioned it was using both.
|
|
Gah...looks like The Vulture did. My apologies. It's been a long day, and a lot of the text is starting to blur...in my head. :p
At any rate, I get it now...so thanks for helping me hammer that out. I set up a Magus a while back, but never got the chance to play him, and didn't fully get the subtleties there.
I hope I get to play him someday. :(
Better wording:
Spellstrike is not an action. It's not a 'free' attack. It's not anything. All it does is let you use your sword instead of your hand.That alone makes so much more sense than the official wording...
But it is wrong, and I think the issue here is that you don't have the wording on touch spells in front of you.
To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action.
In place of a free melee touch attack, per the core rules, you get to make a melee attack with a weapon.
Since the act of delivering a touch spell is considered an armed attack, it really isn't that far fetched.
|
I think the blade bound will be my next magus. I've gone kensai/shadow dancer and magus /rogue/arcane trickster. To answer your questions.
1. You should have at least corrosive touch and shocking grasp.
2. Long term plan intensified spells it combines well with prescient attack.
3. Examine maximized spellstrike as a feat.
4. Consider your options to lv 12.
There are numerous paths.
And its hard to achieve certain destinations wo a plan
5. Spell storing weapons and armor work wellto with magus
6. Pearls of power extend your casting
7. Unless you're doing sneak attack damage rays are mostly unfullfilling.
8. Check out wand mastery its a very cheap way to control terrain. Combined w entangle, grease, murderous command, and etc.
9. Mind your free n swift actions. Its what confused me early on.
I think the blade bound will be my next magus. I've gone kensai/shadow dancer and magus /rogue/arcane trickster. To answer your questions.
1. You should have at least corrosive touch and shocking grasp.
2. Long term plan intensified spells it combines well with prescient attack.
3. Examine maximized spellstrike as a feat.
4. Consider your options to lv 12.
There are numerous paths.
And its hard to achieve certain destinations wo a plan
5. Spell storing weapons and armor work wellto with magus
6. Pearls of power extend your casting
7. Unless you're doing sneak attack damage rays are mostly unfullfilling.
8. Check out wand mastery its a very cheap way to control terrain. Combined w entangle, grease, murderous command, and etc.
9. Mind your free n swift actions. Its what confused me early on.
Magi would make amazing casting counterparts to the rogue to qualify for arcane trickster!!!
#ZOMG#REVALATION
Magi would make amazing casting counterparts to the rogue to qualify for arcane trickster!!!
#ZOMG#REVALATION
[sarcasm]Yeah! You'd be even less accurate than a normal rogue and wouldn't be targeting touch AC like a normal arcane trickster using rays!
And hey, since the Magus is essentially designed to crit fish, adding damage that doesn't increase on a crit is a great idea![/sarcasm]
Ok, that came out meaner than I meant--this was intended to be silly.
Another spell to consider as a bread and butter is frostbite. I have a magus in a pvp arena game here on the boards and I've played a few fights with him. He uses a katana (he's a kensai) and trips people with rime frostbite charges (used magical lineage).
So you cast rime frostbite, move next to someone, and trip them. They take 1d6 + CL nonlethal damage and are fatigued, prone, and entangled. They stand up and you stab them with spellstrike for katana damage plus another 1d6 + CL.
Then next turn you can spell combat them and stab with another frostbite charge, THEN hit with the big shocking grasp.
It doesn't sound as good as the burst damage of shocking grasp, but nonlethal damage is surprisingly good (gets around diehard, samurai resolve, etc).
I think the blade bound will be my next magus. I've gone kensai/shadow dancer and magus /rogue/arcane trickster. To answer your questions.
1. You should have at least corrosive touch and shocking grasp.
2. Long term plan intensified spells it combines well with prescient attack.
3. Examine maximized spellstrike as a feat.
4. Consider your options to lv 12.
There are numerous paths.
And its hard to achieve certain destinations wo a plan
5. Spell storing weapons and armor work wellto with magus
6. Pearls of power extend your casting
7. Unless you're doing sneak attack damage rays are mostly unfullfilling.
8. Check out wand mastery its a very cheap way to control terrain. Combined w entangle, grease, murderous command, and etc.
9. Mind your free n swift actions. Its what confused me early on.Magi would make amazing casting counterparts to the rogue to qualify for arcane trickster!!!
#ZOMG#REVALATION[sarcasm]Yeah! You'd be even less accurate than a normal rogue and wouldn't be targeting touch AC like a normal arcane trickster using rays!
And hey, since the Magus is essentially designed to crit fish, adding damage that doesn't increase on a crit is a great idea![/sarcasm]
Ok, that came out meaner than I meant--this was intended to be silly.
How am I less accurate than a normal rogue?
Both have 3/4 BAB progression, meaning that the magus has a higher BAB than any other arcane casting class in Pathfinder, its the reason I made that post.
How am I less accurate than a normal rogue?
Both have 3/4 BAB progression, meaning that the magus has a higher BAB than any other arcane casting class in Pathfinder, its the reason I made that post.
You're less accurate than a normal rogue because Arcane Trickster is a 1/2 BAB class and because you're mixing two classes with 3/4, which, unless you're careful to take levels in multiples of 4, will net you less BAB than a straight rogue. However, taking 4 levels of rogue is wasteful, so yeah, problem there.
Note I did not say it was less accurate than a normal Arcane Trickster.
It is worse than a normal arcane trickster, though, because Magi get fewer spells and slower progression than sorcerers/wizards and because the standard/most likely best way to play Arcane Tricksters is spamming Scorching Rays/Contagious Flames while Greater Invisible, so your accuracy is almost irrelevant since you're using touch spells.
With Magus as the caster side, you're losing the faster/better spell progression, but gaining spellstrike and spellcombat, which don't help.
If you're using spellstrike, you're making your attacks less accurate by hitting normal AC instead of touch. Using spellcombat means your attacks are less accurate (-2 to hit) and you're making less of them because you can't dual wield like 90% of normal rogues do, so in both cases, you're losing damage.
I just can't see a way that this is a good combination. Of course, Arcane Trickster is already a bad mix--the Rogue levels always drag the build down.
Yeah, the only arcane tricksters I've ever seen died fairly quickly so I've never seen a good one.
On topic, when I run a Magus, I like the notion of investing in an Agile Weapon, reducing the feat cost on me, and I also like taking Spell Focus (Evocation) and Spell Specialization (Shocking Grasp) allowing me to get an extra 2d6 fairly early, and making Intensified Spell usable 2 levels earlier.
Human is my ideal race for this, build looks like this:
traits) Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp); [other trait goes here]
lvl 1) Spell Focus (Evocation); Spell Specialization (Shocking Grasp)
lvl 3) Weapon Finesse
lvl 5) Elemental Spell; Intensified Spell
lvl 7) Empower Spell
lvl 9) Quicken Spell
lvl 11) Weapon Focus; Weapon Specialization
lvl 13) Greater Spell Specialization
lvl 15) Spell Perfection (Shocking Grasp)
lvl 17) Spell Penetration; Greater Weapon Focus
lvl 19) Greater Spell Penetration
Assuming 20 point buy:
STR 7
DEX 17
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 10
CHA 7
It's min/maxed, so you could ease up on the negatives to STR/CHA and have some extra points for CHA/WIS. STR is your dump stat, and at lvl 5 you basically have to invest in an Agile Weapon, preferably a rapier, but if you can manage a way (with a trait) to get proficiency in a dueling sword then that would be higher damage die.
Build focuses on Shocking Grasp, and Spell Perfection interacts with it in such a way that it actually doubles your Weapon Focus and Specialization feats.
lvl 1) Spell Focus (Evocation); Spell Specialization (Shocking Grasp)
lvl 3) Weapon Finesse
So, with Strength 7, at level 1 and 2 you have a -2 and -1 to hit respectively? And this is going to combine with Spell combat for a -4/-3? Are you nuts?
Even after you get Weapon Finesse and can hit at all, you're looking at -2 to damage until you wrangle an Agile weapon. I guess if you start at level 5 or so, then I understand, sort of, but otherwise, yikes!
And getting an Agile weapon saves you a feat, but makes you wait longer for Keen.
lvl 9) Quicken Spell
You won't be able to quicken first level spells until 15th level. You can't even Quicken Shocking Grasp until 10th, and even then, you're giving up your only 4th level slot for that. You could just cast Forceful Strike instead with that slot, dealing 10d4 instead of 5d6.
Build focuses on Shocking Grasp, and Spell Perfection interacts with it in such a way that it actually doubles your Weapon Focus and Specialization feats.
Er, I don't think that's true.
"...if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell..."
Weapon focus does not apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of the spell, it adds to your attack bonus. Weapon Specialization applies to the damage of your weapon, not the spell. Neither gets doubled.
I also kind of think that Weapon Specialization on a Magus feels kind of silly. +2 damage just doesn't seem important when you're dropping fists of d6s. If you really look at it, taking Dervish Dance or Improved Critical (since I assume you have an Agile Keen weapon) would effectively give you +1 to hit and damage, which, compared to the +2 damage from Weapon specialization, is obviously better, at least until you have an effectively +7 weapon.
And crap, where's Arcane Strike in this build? That's also going to be more damage than Weapon Spec...
lvl 1) Spell Focus (Evocation); Spell Specialization (Shocking Grasp)
lvl 3) Weapon FinesseSo, with Strength 7, at level 1 and 2 you have a -2 and -1 to hit respectively? And this is going to combine with Spell combat for a -4/-3? Are you nuts?
Even after you get Weapon Finesse and can hit at all, you're looking at -2 to damage until you wrangle an Agile weapon. I guess if you start at level 5 or so, then I understand, sort of, but otherwise, yikes!
And getting an Agile weapon saves you a feat, but makes you wait longer for Keen.
lvl 9) Quicken SpellYou won't be able to quicken first level spells until 15th level. You can't even Quicken Shocking Grasp until 10th, and even then, you're giving up your only 4th level slot for that. You could just cast Forceful Strike instead with that slot, dealing 10d4 instead of 5d6.
Build focuses on Shocking Grasp, and Spell Perfection interacts with it in such a way that it actually doubles your Weapon Focus and Specialization feats.Er, I don't think that's true.
"...if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell..."
Weapon focus does not apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of the spell, it adds to your attack bonus. Weapon Specialization applies to the damage of your weapon, not the spell. Neither gets doubled.
I also kind of think that Weapon Specialization on a Magus feels kind of silly. +2 damage just doesn't seem important when you're dropping fists of d6s. If you really look at it, taking Dervish Dance or Improved Critical (since I assume you have an Agile Keen weapon) would effectively give you +1 to hit and damage, which, compared to the +2 damage from Weapon specialization, is obviously better, at least until you have an effectively +7 weapon.
And crap, where's Arcane Strike in this build? That's also going to be more damage than Weapon Spec...
How does Weapon Focus Ray double, but not Weapon Focus on the weapon you are delivering the touch spell with, per the description of Spell Perfection?
The build does an extra 2d6 per shocking grasp at lvl 1, which at a minimum cancels out the -2 from a low STR.Quicken I suppose could be taken later on, I like to have it before lvl 15 when I get Perfection so I can use it right away, but not taking it would open up another feat slot earlier.
Magus Arcana can make my weapon keen via my arcane pool can it not? Lvl 5 is a very important lvl, no doubt, but Investing in a Keen Weapon seems lackluster at earlier levels when Keen is my obvious best choice for arcana uses.
I guess Weapon Specialization can get swapped out for something else, I like it though, especially with extra attacks gained from both Spell Combat and the free melee attack from a Quickened Shocking Grasp, I net an extra +6 to damage not counting iterative attacks.
so you cast a spell with the range of touch you get a free touch attack (this is for evryone)
when you are a magus you can deliver that touch attack with your one handed weapon as part of an attack using your highest attack value and also using the crit range of your weapon.
so casting arcane mark alows you to deliver it with a weapon. why is this cool because.
when you use spell combat you get a spell and all your attacks.
so you cast a spell and deliver that spell as an attack and then you get to attack all your normal attacks.
here is my bladebound magus. honostly dervish builds are cool but feat intensive! so better be human. my magus is STR based just because it makes it simpler and there are so many cool feats to use as a magus!
Male Human Blade bound magus 5
CG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +5
Defense
AC 18, touch 11, flat-footed 17 (+1 Dex)
hp 44 (5d10+10+5)
Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +4
Offense
Speed 30 ft.
Attacks: scimitar +11/ 1d6+9(18-20 x2)
spell combat with spellstrike: Shocking grasp +9/+9 5d6+1d6+5 (18-20/x2)/1d6+5(18-20/x2)
--------------------
--------------------
Statistics (+2 to two ability scores Alt racial dual talented 20 point buy)
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +3; CMB +8; CMD 19
Feats weapon Focus Scimitar, extra arcane pool, combat casting, intensified spell
Traits Family Ties(campaign), Magical Lineage
Languages: Common Giant Orc Infernal Sylvan
Equipment:
• +1 chain shirt (1250g)
• +2 scimitar Black blade
• Belt of giant Str +2 (4000g)
• 3 pearls of power (3000g)
• 6 potions of cure light wounds (300g)
• 1 potions of cure moderate wounds (300g)
• Explorer gear worth (75g)
• Wand of vanish (750g)
• Wand of shield (750g)
10425 of 10500
--------------------
spells known:
LVL1: Color Spray, Enlarge person, frostbite, grease, obscuring mist, reduce person, shield, Shocking grasp, true strike, unerring weapon, Vanish
LVL2: Bear’s endurance, frigid touch, Mirror image, web
Spells prepared:
lvl0: Detect magic, Ghost sound, Arcane mark , Read magic
lvl1: Shocking grasp X3, True strike, Vanish,
lvl2: Bear's endurance, Frigid touch, Mirror image
1. Extra arcane pool
2. .
3. Combat casting
4. .
5. Weapon focus Scimitar and intensified spell
6. Wand wielder or arcane accuracy
7. Craft wand or extra arcane pool
8. .
9. .elemental spell, accurate strike
10. .
11. quicken spell, extra arcana ghost blade
12. .critical strike
13. .critical focus
14. .
15. .spell perfection: ”shocking grasp”, maximize magic
16. .
17. .Bleeding critical, power attack
18. .
19. .
20. .
|
|
Better wording:
Spellstrike is not an action. It's not a 'free' attack. It's not anything. All it does is let you use your sword instead of your hand.That alone makes so much more sense than the official wording...But it is wrong, and I think the issue here is that you don't have the wording on touch spells in front of you.
To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action.In place of a free melee touch attack, per the core rules, you get to make a melee attack with a weapon.
Since the act of delivering a touch spell is considered an armed attack, it really isn't that far fetched.
Yeah, I get it. Cast a touch spell, get a touch attack. I still like his wording better.
|
|
One thing to keep in mind is that even using spell combat you still provoke attacks of opportunity while casting. It's not too big a deal at high levels, but it does tend to make using the arcane mark spamming a little more difficult early on.
I've seen a few people ignore that part of it.
Cast defensively. It's not like it's a big deal if you fail.
|
In PFS a bladebound magus can't upgrade a weapon into a blackblade. The blackblade is a standalone item that only gets what is listed on its progression table. While the player could buy an adamantine weapon as a backup, he can't have an adamantine blackblade.Bladebound is definitely a solid choice when you're looking for something different. Saves a lot of money on your weapon.
Adamantine is a good choice because it makes your weapon darn near invulnerable, and you can't change its material after you get your black blade. It also cuts through hardness if you're interested in sundering things (which, contrary to popular belief, does not ruin your chances at getting new equipment; in normal games, the spell mending fixes it, and in PFS you get access to purchase anything special after the game anyways). This makes it a good choice against equipment-reliant enemies, but they aren't super common.
Source?
I haven't come across anything that says a Bladebound Magus can't upgrade his weapon as long as he spends the gold. Also, it's the GM's job to present the blade to the player so he could have it start out as adamantine.
In PFS a bladebound magus can't upgrade a weapon into a blackblade. The blackblade is a standalone item that only gets what is listed on its progression table. While the player could buy an adamantine weapon as a backup, he can't have an adamantine blackblade.Bladebound is definitely a solid choice when you're looking for something different. Saves a lot of money on your weapon.
Adamantine is a good choice because it makes your weapon darn near invulnerable, and you can't change its material after you get your black blade. It also cuts through hardness if you're interested in sundering things (which, contrary to popular belief, does not ruin your chances at getting new equipment; in normal games, the spell mending fixes it, and in PFS you get access to purchase anything special after the game anyways). This makes it a good choice against equipment-reliant enemies, but they aren't super common.
Source?
I haven't come across anything that says a Bladebound Magus can't upgrade his weapon as long as he spends the gold. Also, it's the GM's job to present the blade to the player so he could have it start out as adamantine.
There HAS to be a spell that transmutes material, just tell your sword to willingly fail this will save and BAM.
|
|
Alrighty Finally got my head around the Arcane MArk, I was looking for some higher meaning for the Arcane MArk spell, when simply it's more Zorro's Z
You simply use it to do two melee attacks, one do mark the enemy with a symbol (could be an initial, a funny drawing, an abusive word who knows) if the spell is successful you also get to do a melee attack and then your normal melee.
pity Ignite won't let you set someone on fire, lol
As for the Sword, I have only found that you can't upgrade the blade after it exists.
Many thanks all, I have changed my character alot, stats alone are now
Str 11
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 9
My character is not a friendly person, relying on intimidation (+5 to intimidate) rather than bluff or diplomacy, after all, the cleric I have is the kind guy, this one has a chip or seven on his shoulders lol.
The other question, there are some oozes etc that like to eat weapons, do they effect black blades and does adamantine counter this??
actualy it has an aditional benefit if your marked target uses invisable you can detect it with detect magic! :-)
Repost of one of my comments from another thread:
I am playing a magus with Magical Lineage: Shocking Grasp trait. I figured that if my character was so intimately acquainted with the spell, that he should probably be able to create a cantrip version of it that is powered down. My DM agreed, and allowed me to purchase the materials for research as a 1/2 spell level, so 500g and half a week (28 hours) of research. He let me get 2 hours per day of research while we were adventuring, which I thought was pretty generous. 14 short game days later, I have my own cantrip that deals 1d4 electric damage touch spell. This fills a big void for a magus, who lack a cantrip touch spell even though Spellstrike lets them makes better use of touch spells than most.
if you get that cantrip at lvl 2 or below its kinda over the top !! :-) you could just wack every cr1 creature in 1 go VERRY easy now