|
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
|
Just remember that Gamin doesn't necessarily reveal his nature at all.
This is true, and when I played thru it I was somewhat disappointed by Gamin staying quiet. Gamin being snarky to the party is half the fun! Talked to the GM afterwards, he said he just forgot about him.
|
So, I'm running this play-by-post, and they just found Gamin. One of them is about to pick him up. This is a group of six players, five are 1st level, and all are some form of neutral (none are good-aligned).
According to the intelligent item rules (CRB 533) anyone who picks up an intelligent item of a different alignment than that person gains a negative level. Since Gamin is NG, it can only be wielded by a good character (Table 15-21). So anyone in the party who touches him gains a negative level.
AND... according to p. 562 on negative levels, "If a creature's negative levels equal or exceed its total Hit Dice, it dies." First level characters have 1 HD, correct? So if any of the PCs but the one 2nd level character so much as picks up the sword, s/he dies?
Tell me I'm missing something - and if I'm not, how would you deal with this. I have a couple of thoughts, but want to hear about my interpretation of the rules first.
Thanks!
|
|
Right, but the asterisk footnote reads:
The item can also be used by any character whose alignment corresponds to the non-neutral portion of the item's alignment.
For Gamin, this is the "good" part of NG, which means that any good character could pick him up. But in a party of six PCs, none of them are good!
If I'm reading everything correctly, that is...
|
|
Right, but the asterisk footnote reads:
The item can also be used by any character whose alignment corresponds to the non-neutral portion of the item's alignment.
For Gamin, this is the "good" part of NG, which means that any good character could pick him up. But in a party of six PCs, none of them are good!
If I'm reading everything correctly, that is...
There's precedent in Ultimate Equipment for intelligent items being able to withhold the negative level, rather than being forced to bestow it on anyone who picks them up. In Ultimate Equipment there's a CN weapon (the hammer of enemies) which loves battle so much that it explicitly doesn't give a negative level to its wielder regardless of their alignment. I'd say a small tweak to the effect that Gamin can choose not to bestow a negative level unless he really takes against the person carrying him wouldn't make much difference to the scenario and would prevent an out-of-nowhere accidental death.
|
Given that the sword's intelligent, I'd think it should have the ability to intentionally suppress its power. In this case, it has a good reason to do so, for the same reason it intentionally stays quiet for a while when it first meets the PCs. It's waiting to feel them out and decide if it trusts them.
Developer
|
| 14 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have no intention of making a blanket statement about intelligent items in Pathfinder, Golarion, or even Pathfinder Society as a whole, but for Scenario #4-19 I believe the suppressed negative level is exactly what is needed.
That said, I can just hear the story now when the 1st level borderline evil PC beats Kalkamedes within an inch of his life, only to have Gamin stop suppressing the negative level. There are few 1st level PC deaths that would amuse me more. GMs, let's keep this as an extreme corner case situation; don't go looking for opportunities to inflict death-by-intelligent-item in this scenario.
|
|
That WOULD be hilarious. And a surprisingly fitting way to say "Neutral means Not Malicious but also Not Very Kind. Stop being mean."
John, since you're here... I wanted to note the Chronicle Sheet was really satisfying. Gamin is useless to the character I sent through this adventure (though this is due to said character being a full arcane caster), but everything else on the sheet was either reasonably useful or really flavorful. And obviously Gamin will hold more appeal to other builds than the one I was using, I suspect!
These sort of "got a cool and useful memento from the adventure" awards are a very nice thing to have in PFS, and I hope this trend will continue. In this particular case, getting a spiritual high-five from a Good Outsider is even a really neat story point for my character and gives a little more tangibility to celestials in general. I like it.
|
|
Well, in my game (still running, it's play-by-post), I didn't keep Gamin quiet; he was too busy mocking and belittling the party while still in Kalkamedes' cabin. But I ended up going with the suppression option. I don't expect the possibility that John mentions will come into play with this group. A nice little GM trick to keep in your pocket in extreme cases, though!
|
|
Razor Brambles: Is there any reason why Kalkamedes would take 6 rounds to get through the 60 feet of the bramble (subtier 1-2)? I know it's difficult terrain, but wouldn't he do a move for both his move and standard action, and thus move 20 feet in each round (since his normal sleepwalking speed is 20 feet)?
|
|
His stat block says:
***
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. sleepwalking)
.
.
.
Somnambulism (Su) Each night, Kalkamedes suffers from (a) magically induced form of sleepwalking from which he cannot be roused. While sleepwalking, his Speed is reduced to 20 feet and he is considered flat-footed at all times...
***
So to me, that suggests he moves 20 feet per move action.
|
|
He's also blind.
Blind creatures must make a DC 10 Acrobatics skill check to move faster than half speed. Creatures that fail this check fall prone.
Good point, assuming that the blindness penalty to moving isn't already assumed to be factored in to the somnambulism effect, and instead 'stacks' with it (so half speed of 20, or 10). I'm just wondering if that's the case, since usually these stat blocks already have all conditions and effects factored in.
Have others who have run this had him moving at 10' per move action, then?
|
|
See the movement section within the Additional Rules chapter of the CRB. Creatures only have a move and standard action every 6 seconds when in combat. This is hustling. Other times you just get one action per 6 seconds. Normal walking out of combat is therefore your normal speed per 6 seconds, not double your move speed.
This makes perfect sense and explains the 10 feet per round in this instance given the difficult terrain. Thank you!
|
|
Anyone that wants gamin bad enough will probably just change their alignment. I'm chaotic good so I don't have to worry. It's the neutral characters that might have some trouble. I do think it would be hilarious if a level 1 neutral character picked him up and died. Though that would be a really mean thing to do as a gm.
|
|
I thought this was a really good scenario and am really looking forward to GMing it. I played it as a LG tengu inquisitor who worships Shizuru (goddess of sun, honor, and swordplay), so of course he loves Gamin. I hope that whenever there's a boon to re-forge Gamin, there's an option to turn him into a different type of sword; I'd love to use Gamin as his primary weapon, but my tengu specializes in two-handed swords, so I can't really justify that over a nodachi or greatsword...
I'm a little confused about how Gamin's guidance ability is supposed to work, however. The description on page 6 says, "when held he can cast guidance on his wielder at will." The rules for an intelligent item's powers say, "All powers function at the direction of the item, although intelligent items generally follow the wishes of their owner. Activating a power or concentrating on an active one is a standard action the item takes." Does Gamin need to actually be held to use his ability, or can he use it even if he's sheathed? There's also been a lot of confusion in the past over exactly what the term "wield" means -- see all of the arguments about the Defending weapon property -- and I believe the consensus there is that you must actually attack with a weapon to be considered to be wielding it in that round.
|
Developer
|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I'm a little confused about how Gamin's guidance ability is supposed to work, however. The description on page 6 says, "when held he can cast guidance on his wielder at will." The rules for an intelligent item's powers say, "All powers function at the direction of the item, although intelligent items generally follow the wishes of their owner. Activating a power or concentrating on an active one is a standard action the item takes." Does Gamin need to actually be held to use his ability, or can he use it even if he's sheathed? There's also been a lot of confusion in the past over exactly what the term "wield" means -- see all of the arguments about the Defending weapon property -- and I believe the consensus there is that you must actually attack with a weapon to be considered to be wielding it in that round.
Gamin can activate guidance at his own direction, which means the character need not use an action to command him. The guidance aspect is only possible when a PC wields Gamin, which is to say hold him in a hand. That was a development choice to keep someone from saying that Gamin just casts guidance every round of every hour of every day. My intention is not to weigh in on the definition of wield in other discussions, but this is how our friendly, flawed sword is intended to operate.
|
|
Gamin can activate guidance at his own direction, which means the character need not use an action to command him. The guidance aspect is only possible when a PC wields Gamin, which is to say hold him in a hand. That was a development choice to keep someone from saying that Gamin just casts guidance every round of every hour of every day. My intention is not to weigh in on the definition of wield in other discussions, but this is how our friendly, flawed sword is intended to operate.
Good to know, that makes sense. The question about "holding" vs. "wielding" came up because my wife is thinking about buying Gamin for her monk/paladin; in combat she would always be holding the sword, but not necessarily wielding it (going by the Defending usage of the term) if she's flurrying with her unarmed strikes on that round.
|
|
Oh, I just thought of a really, really silly situation that could arise if I buy Gamin with my only longsword wielding character. He's a Battle Oracle with the Tongues curse, so he can only speak Infernal in combat. I don't have the sheet in front of me, but I'm assuming Gamin doesn't speak Infernal.
|
|
That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm just amused at the thought of my monk running up to the enemy wielding this cracked sword, and then holding it behind him, keeping it safe. ;-)Gamin can activate guidance at his own direction, which means the character need not use an action to command him. The guidance aspect is only possible when a PC wields Gamin, which is to say hold him in a hand. That was a development choice to keep someone from saying that Gamin just casts guidance every round of every hour of every day. My intention is not to weigh in on the definition of wield in other discussions, but this is how our friendly, flawed sword is intended to operate.Good to know, that makes sense. The question about "holding" vs. "wielding" came up because my wife is thinking about buying Gamin for her monk/paladin; in combat she would always be holding the sword, but not necessarily wielding it (going by the Defending usage of the term) if she's flurrying with her unarmed strikes on that round.
(I'm Phillip's aforementioned wife playing a monk/paladin.) That is exactly what I said when I got the chronicle sheet, Tony... "I can't wait to see the look on an Aspis agent's face when I run up to him with a shiny silver cracked sword and he thinks he's about to be run through, and instead I punch him in the nose."
|
Sorry, I'm pretty new to GMing PFS scenarios, and I have a question about the tier structure for this adventure. There are tier 1-2 and tier 4-5 subtiers. Does this mean legel 3 characters cannot gain credit for playing? I'm going to be running this next week, and any clarification would be appreciated.
|
|
Sorry, I'm pretty new to GMing PFS scenarios, and I have a question about the tier structure for this adventure. There are tier 1-2 and tier 4-5 subtiers. Does this mean legel 3 characters cannot gain credit for playing? I'm going to be running this next week, and any clarification would be appreciated.
The subtiers are meant to be utilized for level-appropriate parties. The method of determining which should be used is discussed in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, which you should read if you are going to run PFS scenarios for credit. You can download it here: http://paizo.com/products/btpy84k4
|
|
Sorry, I'm pretty new to GMing PFS scenarios, and I have a question about the tier structure for this adventure. There are tier 1-2 and tier 4-5 subtiers. Does this mean legel 3 characters cannot gain credit for playing? I'm going to be running this next week, and any clarification would be appreciated.
Level 3 characters gain credit for the sub-tier they played in. If the groups average level allowed them to face the sub-tier 4-5 encounters, the level 3 characters get the sub-tier 4-5 rewards. If they instead choose or have to play 1-2 because of the APL being 2 or less, they only get the sub-tier 1-2 rewards. Also, remember that if they get the 4-5 rewards they also get the items listed on the 1-2 sub-tier. (Don't add the total gold from each sub-tier together however.) For your GM credit, you get the tier that matches your characters level. A 3rd level character cannot get tier 4-5 rewards from GM credit however.
|
Session went great! The combats were well designed and the opportunities for role play and shenanigans were plenty!
Several players were STOKED to see Gamin on their sheet! :) probably because he kept shouting things like "aye, that big bloke looks like he knows how to wield a sword!" To the barbarian and " oh, you like big ones, do ye?" To the Druid after she cast shilleigah on her quarter staff... Good times!
|
I played this a week or so ago, and really enjoyed the scenario. It has some interesting challenges, and I like scenarios that aren't "typical."
I'm prepping the scenario now, and I've got some questions. I want to make sure I run the Koth'Vaul encounter so that it's both challenging, and the players don't feel cheated. I like the suggestions about having them make knowledge checks at the start of the game. That seems to be the fairest method. The GM when I played it seemed to take the approach that if you didn't ask to make the check, you didn't get to make the check, and that just doesn't feel right. He otherwise ran a fantastic game, and we were pretty dumb about the way we went about questioning the gnome, so it definitely wasn't a negative experience.
Any other advice on running Koth'Vaul? Any particularly entertaining lies you had him tell while trying to explain away the PCs concerns? I really want to try to make that an entertaining roleplaying scene.
It's also good to see how other groups handled controlling Kalkamedes. We put shackles on him to slow his movement, and used rope to keep him from getting too far. I'm sure when I run it, they'll come up with something entirely new, but at least I'll be prepared for a few things.
I've got questions about Gamin. So, if I understand it correctly, anyone that is not Good will take a negative level by picking him up, but he can be assumed to be suppressing the ability unless they deserve it? How does that carry over if they actually purchase him, but they are Neutral? Is an Alignment change necessary, or will they just always have to keep him happy or risk him hitting them with the negative level instead of Guidance? :)
Also, with the broken condition applied, and Gamin's stats, is this correct:
Longsword -1 to hit (+1 magic -2 broken) -1 damage (+1 magic -2 broken) x2 crit on a 20 only. A further +1 from the Guidance which could offset the penalty to hit. Even with the Guidance, that seems to make him an unattractive weapon to actually use in combat. Or am I missing something? Allying is, of course, good if it's a character that isn't trying to do much damage anyway.
Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread, but that our group did... The Ranger used Wild Empathy to get us past the bears and the skunks. One of the few times I've actually seen that ability able to be used in PFS, which was another positive for the scenario.
|
For the knowledge checks, take down your player's relevant skills before you start running the scenario, and have them pre-roll a few d20s. Don't tell them what it's for, and if they roll low, give them the option to use their re-rolls.
This way you can give them their deserved knowledge without them being mind-readers, but you won't make them extra suspicious.
|
|
When some players pointed out that Koth'Vaul should have been affected by fade I had him respond in two different ways with different groups. In one he said "It is a matter of discipline. I haven't looked at my left hand for months. Tomorrow i am going to look at my left pinky I cann't wait to see what amazing changes have taken place." In the other I had his hair change to a very light pink and had him say "I use my illusion magic to keep my color. I know it is not real but it keeps me marginally happier."
If we don't get clarification on the negative level for Gamin, I would explain the difference to the PCs by having Gamin say he was checking out the PCs before and wanted to make sure Kalkamedes was safe, but refuses to travel with a non-good character as he decided he didn't like them.
