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There's no built-in reason for the circles to block auras. If a party has access to alignment detection magic/abilities, I would allow them to function.
Your observations about outsider/undead PCs is very amusing as a hypothetically cautionary tale for us all.
Gamin only begins talking after the PCs have proven their good intentions and willingness to help Kalkamedes (likely after the PCs succeed at two of the Maiming Mountain tasks). His main interest is in helping Kalkamedes, and giving advice to wakeful Pathfinders is as good a means as any. So long as they have not abused Kalkamedes or been horribly negligent, I imagine Gamin will pipe up by the time they reach the Black Edifice at least. The adventure is much more interesting with an intelligent sword than without.
Just like other items gained in a scenario, the "gift" simply opens up Gamin for purchase.
OK so you do have to purchase the sword.. the way its written up makes it seem like really a gift like the tattoos in the other mods.. many Gms during a con I attended recently were just rewarding the players for free... I wanted to check in and make sure...
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I've had players run the entire scenario without even knowing what Gamin was. No one bothered to look around the hut before they cut him free, I crossed Gamin off of the rewards sheet.
BNW, and others..
I don't think Gamin will ever be "fixed". As the history of the blade says "for two centuries Gamin passed from one dissatisfied holy warrior to the next..." I'm sure if it was possible, someone would have fixed him by now.
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I've had players run the entire scenario without even knowing what Gamin was. No one bothered to look around the hut before they cut him free, I crossed Gamin off of the rewards sheet.
Frankly, I thought the pretense for tossing the guy's house (he might have something useful -- and surely we won't mind) was rather thin in the first place. On the other hand, I'd feel bad about not nudging the players in that direction given what they stand to miss...
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I've had players run the entire scenario without even knowing what Gamin was. No one bothered to look around the hut before they cut him free, I crossed Gamin off of the rewards sheet.Frankly, I thought the pretense for tossing the guy's house (he might have something useful -- and surely we won't mind) was rather thin in the first place. On the other hand, I'd feel bad about not nudging the players in that direction given what they stand to miss...
When my group did it, we weren't looking for useful supplies. We were looking for clues as to what was causing his sleepwalking. Yes, my halfling rogue really is good aligned.
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When my group did it, we weren't looking for useful supplies. We were looking for clues as to what was causing his sleepwalking. Yes, my halfling rogue really is good aligned.
Fair enough, but IIRC the VC actually suggests you search the place for anything that might come in handy. My recollection could be off, though.
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Yeah, I remember specifically asking if he was wearing shoes, and putting his boots on him when I found out he wasn't. And then asking why he would go to sleep in his pajamas without shoes if he knew this was happening to him every night.
Hmmm...interesting question. I still really like the scenario, though. :)
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This was the first adventure I ever GM'd for Pathfinder Society. We had a brand-new, never-played-RPGs-before player at the table with a level 1 fighter with an awesome backstory and an absolute obsession with Knowledge (Geography) and a high bonus to it. He might even have had Skill Focus or something silly like that. He was one of the more interesting roleplayers and while the group was wondering how the heck to get around this MASSIVE chasm that Kalkamedes wanted to fall into, he goes "I'm going to roll and see if there's a nearby bridge or something with my knowledge of geography."
Natural 20.
The module says nothing about this, but I immediately said "As a matter of fact, your study of maps in this region has reminded you of an area nearby where the chasm is much smaller and would be easier to cross."
With Kalkamedes completely tied up and slung over the back of a horse (struggling the whole way), they traveled the three miles and aced a Knowledge (Engineering) check to precisely topple a large tree to make a bridge.
When the group got to Koth'Vaul's chamber, I described the gnome sitting in it and three players simultaneously said with incredible surprise "What about the Bleaching?!" I couldn't help but grin. Koth didn't trick a single one of them.
Of course, the Alchemist had to be physically restrained from bombing "the other demon" which looked like an unconscious elf woman... Hehe.
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Does one need to pay the material component cost of the restoration granted by the tier 4-5 boon?
On a similar note the Ghaele's memorized raise dead would still need its 5000gp diamond supplied as a material component as well, correct?
I don't think so. Its a spell like ability, and spell like abilities don't need material components.
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I don't think so. Its a spell like ability, and spell like abilities don't need material components.Does one need to pay the material component cost of the restoration granted by the tier 4-5 boon?
On a similar note the Ghaele's memorized raise dead would still need its 5000gp diamond supplied as a material component as well, correct?
I didn't catch that before, thanks.
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Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs
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Question can a summoner unsummon their Eidolon if it is in the magic circle with the "gnome"? It put an appendage into the magic circle and the "gnome" pulled it inside, on a side note the party had tied Kalkamedes to the eidolon for his safety. Now that added to the drama.
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I ran this a few time before. Last night I had a party that after meeting Koth'Vaul immediately broke the circle and released him. After reading the conclusion, I ruled that Koth'Vaul took a swipe at one of the PCs who was in his way and then greater teleport out as he warns the PC that he will be in their nightmare and send the dragon after the PCs. How did other handle this?
Also I was surprise that they got both of the prestige points even though they let the demon loose on Varisia.
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Quick question that I just noticed...
"The doors require a DC 21 Strength check to open, though in Subtier 4–5
the doors are particularly massive and require a DC 25 Strength check to open."
How does anyone succeed at this at subtier 4-5?
Even if you have a PC with minimum PFS-legal strength (5), and you hit them with the wand, you have 16 chances/charges to drop their strength to 0 while they're on the dais...and *then* they need to get a natural 20 on the check while their strength is 0?
You can't even aid another, because if you can't make the DC on your own, you can't roll to aid (as one of my more rules-savvy GMs just pointed out to me).
I don't think I've ever GM'd this at the high tier, or I might have seen it sooner...but am I missing something here?
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Quick question that I just noticed...
"The doors require a DC 21 Strength check to open, though in Subtier 4–5
the doors are particularly massive and require a DC 25 Strength check to open."How does anyone succeed at this at subtier 4-5?
Even if you have a PC with minimum PFS-legal strength (5), and you hit them with the wand, you have 16 chances/charges to drop their strength to 0 while they're on the dais...and *then* they need to get a natural 20 on the check while their strength is 0?
You can't even aid another, because if you can't make the DC on your own, you can't roll to aid (as one of my more rules-savvy GMs just pointed out to me).
I don't think I've ever GM'd this at the high tier, or I might have seen it sooner...but am I missing something here?
By the hand-wave method. Otherwise known as the this ability check is mathematically ridiculous so I'm moving on so that I don't have to give 0xp sheets due to a door (see also Fires of Karamoss).
(Also for the Aid Another part, that's even assuming you can Aid Another on an ability check, which as far as I can tell Aid Another is only outlined in Skill Checks (where you need to be able to do the check alone to aid) and Combat (AC or Attack). That said yes I think you should be able to aid an ability check, just digging into the actual text a bit)
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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You can't even aid another, because if you can't make the DC on your own, you can't roll to aid (as one of my more rules-savvy GMs just pointed out to me).
I don't think this is actually correct. Although Aid Another isn't defined for ability checks, the rules for skill checks are a good analogue;
In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone. The GM might impose further restrictions to aiding another on a case-by-case basis as well.
Some people latch onto the "achieve" part and say you can't Aid on things if you couldn't hit the DC yourself.
However, the example given is Disable Device, which is a trained-only skill. That's not a coincidence.
I think the correct reading is that you can't Aid on things that you're not allowed to try yourself. After all, you don't know the DC or if you're getting some bonuses that might enable you to perhaps make the DC even if it's very high. So how could you know (without reading the scenario) whether you're allowed to Aid?
Consider the case of trying to push a car. On your own neither you nor any one of your friends might be able to do it. But by all working together you can.
So I believe the word "couldn't achieve" here should be read as "not allowed to make the check".
Your "savvy" GM is perhaps being overly narrow in his reading, overlooking that most of the rules are written more informally because the reader is expected to use common sense (or some value of 'common') and context.
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You can't even aid another, because if you can't make the DC on your own, you can't roll to aid (as one of my more rules-savvy GMs just pointed out to me).I don't think this is actually correct. Although Aid Another isn't defined for ability checks, the rules for skill checks are a good analogue;
In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone. The GM might impose further restrictions to aiding another on a case-by-case basis as well.Some people latch onto the "achieve" part and say you can't Aid on things if you couldn't hit the DC yourself.
However, the example given is Disable Device, which is a trained-only skill. That's not a coincidence.
I think the correct reading is that you can't Aid on things that you're not allowed to try yourself. After all, you don't know the DC or if you're getting some bonuses that might enable you to perhaps make the DC even if it's very high. So how could you know (without reading the scenario) whether you're allowed to Aid?
Consider the case of trying to push a car. On your own neither you nor any one of your friends might be able to do it. But by all working together you can.
So I believe the word "couldn't achieve" here should be read as "not allowed to make the check".
Your "savvy" GM is perhaps being overly narrow in his reading, overlooking that most of the rules are written more informally because the reader is expected to use common sense (or some value of 'common') and context.
My opinion is that the language is vague. There is nothing to suggest that aiding another can be done with ability checks, only AC, attack rolls, and skill checks. That said, it is common practice to assume aid another works for ability checks much as it does with skill checks.
Within skill checks, the wording was also vague. The literal construction of the sentence indicates that if one cannot accomplish a check n one's own (ie, if a take 20 does not meet the DC) one cannot aid. The example of Disable Device being given does seem to indicate that they authors are attempting to express that this limitation only extends to those actions that can only be undertaken by those with given class features. This disagreement between the literal construction of the principle and the example given is irritating and confusing.
It is vague. My interpretation is that if one cannot achieve a DC by taking 20, the cannot use the Aid Another action. I extend that to ability checks. That said, I can see a lot of room for interpretation.
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I dont know if its in the scenario, but I let everyone help each other, as the door is big enough that several people can physicall push/pull. I just added up their strenth together.
The scenario does mention letting them help one another, but doesn't outline how that works mechanically. Your solution I think would be a bad one as a general rule, but a perfectly good one in the particular situation in Night March.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Great scenario! My players made a lot of trip attacks to keep Kalkamedes from moving, tried setting the forest on fire to deal with mauling bears, and had a "who's best at ambushing the other" contest between the bandits and the party rogue.
One PC immediately clued in that there was something fishy about a non-bleached gnome, then as they searched the cave further they got attacked by the dragon. Urged on by Gamin, the party fighter charged it and ended up dropped by its full attack. At this point the party panicked and decided to flee immediately, while freeing the gnome...
...oops...
So yeah, they've unleashed unholy terror upon the unsuspecting countryside of Varisia. Now I would like to run a sequel scenario that deals with the consequences. Any suggestions for that?
Ideally it should be a PFS scenario that (1) takes place in Varisia, (2) involves demons, and (3) is playable at level five; then I'd make the story that this scenario is caused by Kael'Vath and order the PCs to deal with it. Please advice!
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Ran this at subtier 1-2 yesterday. Overall everyone had fun, but it was definitely a tough slog for the group which ended up running over time. They were a bit of a weird mix, which didn't help:
Level 1 warpriest
Level 1 druid
Level 2 abjurer
Level 2 investigator
Level 3 pyrokineticist
They had to think quite laterally about a lot of solutions, and Kalkamedes spent most of the scenario tied to the kineticist after being dog-piled by the entire party.
Their solutions were often hampered by a lack of basic equipment with the refrain of "we can't afford the lighter, better stuff, and we can't carry the heavier, cheaper stuff".
I'm not sure I'd want to run it 1-2 in future, outside a home game where I can take the time for players to be creative, but definitely an interesting scenario that I'm glad to have run :)
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I'm preparing to run this on Sunday. I definitely like the suggestions in this thread about asking for rolls in advance for certain things. But how exactly did people handle that? I'm debating between two methods:
1. Come up with a list of specific rolls (mostly the skills used passively during the conversation with the gnome at the end) and ask them to roll those specific things in advance.
2. Have them fill out their bonuses to perception, sense motive, all knowledges, etc on a sheet for me in advance, and then roll 20-30 d20's and just write down all the results. As we get to things that use any of those skills, consult those sheets instead of asking them to roll. This would also cover things like the perception checks for the bandit ambush, and I could improvise on the fly which checks to use their pre-rolls for.
How have others handled this?
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Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs
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I use an index card that I hand out at the beginning of the game for them to fill out, the clip it to my gm screen.
Name /AC/Init/Perc/5 d20 rolls
I usually use the pre-rolls for perception checks. If the scenario called for it I might ask for Sense Motive or another skill.
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In this case, there are the specific passive rolls made on knowledges to realize the gnome is lying at the end, which is what I was asking about. I decided to make up sheets with a list of stuff to ask them, and have them roll 20 d20's and write down the results before hand.
So I looked at my signups for tomorrow's game, and I'm really worried. I've got 4 people signed up. It looks like a level 1 group (though one didn't specify a level). But they're all front liners. The only spellcaster is an occulstist who signed up as a "tank". So no healing, and nobody who can use the wand of Ray of Enfeeblement to get past the door.
I really don't think this party can complete the adventure. They can make up for the lack of healing with potions, but that door will stop them. They should all have strength as front liners, so there's no way any of them will get past it without the Ray of Enfeeblement, which they can't use.
I'm seriously tempted to just bring Compact Consortium as a backup plan, and run them through that instead.
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In this case, there are the specific passive rolls made on knowledges to realize the gnome is lying at the end, which is what I was asking about. I decided to make up sheets with a list of stuff to ask them, and have them roll 20 d20's and write down the results before hand.
I sent around a list to get about six pieces of information beforehand, as people in the area have often seen me do,
"Natural 20 for a Sense Motive of THIRTY-SEVEN." (yeah, you know the tone)
"He seems entirely open and truthful."
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So I looked at my signups for tomorrow's game, and I'm really worried. I've got 4 people signed up. It looks like a level 1 group (though one didn't specify a level). But they're all front liners. The only spellcaster is an occulstist who signed up as a "tank". So no healing, and nobody who can use the wand of Ray of Enfeeblement to get past the door.
I really don't think this party can complete the adventure. They can make up for the lack of healing with potions, but that door will stop them. They should all have strength as front liners, so there's no way any of them will get past it without the Ray of Enfeeblement, which they can't use.
Ok, just checked the signups again, and we're good. One guy switched which PC he's bringing to bring some healing, and a 5th signed up with a bloodrager (which can cast Ray of Enfeeblement). They're still probably all high enough strength to be disadvantaged against that door, but at least they'll have the wand helping now.
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I'm GMing this for the second time in a couple of days. It's been awhile since the first time I GMed it. Also, this time it's online. So I've got a related question. What should the light level be in area C? The description mentions the cavern is bathed "with a dark green light." The text for the area doesn't mention a light level. Ordinarily, I would read that as dim light, but if I set the dynamic lighting for the map to dim, then they're going to see the azata, or at least the second binding circle, just by scrolling around the map. I can hide the azata until they're closer, but I'm worried they'll just bypass the gnome if they see everything.
Thinking back 5 years to when I played it online, I believe the GM had the area dark except for the light we brought with us.
Alternatively, I could give everyone that has normal sight dim light out to 20 feet, and everyone that has low light dim light out to 40 feet. Chances are they'll have light sources anyway, since the earlier parts of the dungeon aren't lit.
I'm just curious how others have handled it.
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There is a line of sight from the entrance into all three of the significant areas, which the PCs can make out as several rounded alcoves. The text is laid out as if the GM should describe each area in more detail as PCs get close to it. Remember that Kalkamedes goes directly towards her (unless he's carried by the PCs and tied too tightly to make his intentions known, which is possible at this point).
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It's less line of sight that I'm concerned about, at least in terms of obstacles blocking vision. Roll20 will handle that. It's how far into the room they can see clearly. Is it meant to be an even dim light or is it meant to drop off unless they have special vision.
I do know about Kalkamedes. Last time I ran it, Koth'Vaul was able to catch their attention and get them to stop and engage. That will likely happen again anyway, or they'll get slowed down by the undead dragon.
EDIT: Consultation with another online GM has led to deciding to just make everything, including Suliana, visible (via dim light), and hope I can role play Koth'Vaul well enough to talk his way out of any awkwardness.
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This scenario came up during "Lunch conversation" with a fellow gamer...
We were discussing using Generics and the suggestion was made for a group of all the same Generic... which naturally came around to playing a group of all Harsks.
Party of dwarfs, right? so clearly this would have to be a 7 person group. But what scenario?
Night March of Kalkamedes!
7 dwarvs and a sleeping beauty...
SOMEONE NEEDS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN!
What can I do to help it happen?
(snicker)