Good God, DQ. I swear you're like the anthropomorphic manifestation of even-handedness sometimes. ;)
And I laughed and laughed and laughed....
Seriously, I'll take that as a compliment. But how well I practice what I preach varies, I will fully admit. Let's say it's what I strive for.
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I know what you mean about the Internet making reasonable conversations devolve into fractiousness when such wouldn't happen IRL.
IRL I'm the nicest guy you could ever hope to meet, but that's very hard to tell by reading my posts. : /
IRL, ciretose must be a saint in human form....!
Also, deadpan humour is harder to convey.
[/deadpan]
I think if you have to write up a list of rules for this stuff Your`re taking things too seriously. So, why so serious?
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I think if you have to write up a list of rules for this stuff Your`re taking things too seriously. So, why so serious?
I've never needed a list. I do those things normally without thinking.
Apparently others don't, so I'm trying to help.
As is befitting of St. Ciretose :)
Should probably avoid mentioning personal morals too much, and go for more general thoughts.
31: If your intent in playing the game is too 'break' the GM's and other player's game. Stop. Politly excuse yourself and leave. By break I mean creating a character to overshadow everything including the other players, annoying the other players to the point where they are not having fun
Yeah I know this could have included in some of the others...but I figured it needed it's own due to the number of times I have seen it done.
Also..
32: When making a character ask yourself...Would I want to travel with this guy? Would I want to risk my life with this guy? If the answear is no...than change the concept to be atleast a little bit more likeable.
(Example: a player I play with occassionaly made a insultive jerk as a character once because he thought it would be funny...he over played and wondered why in character we left his character at the inn...and when he caught up to us told him flat out to leave. It took explain to that player why it happened.)
I kinda miss being able to do the second part of item #1. The new group already has a huge selection of snacks and likes it when you partake of them. Additions are welcome but often uneaten.
Personally I like to make things and bring them to share.
I'd welcome it. Anytime I've gotten food for the group they refuse to take, and my last few groups ability to handle food has been rather poor.
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33. If you don't like your salsa burning hot warn me .... I mean the person making it so I don't throw in a handful of super hot peppers.
I was so glad we had plenty of milk that day.
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In my group we recently started using magic to solve our problems.
Those who are playing Magic: The Gathering might have heard of the card mind grind. Whenever someone in the group (including me, the GM) goes overboard with something, which interrupts the flow of the game or bothers someone, that someone can pick up the card and hold it in a way everyone at the table has to notice. The person (or persons) causing the problem realise they are getting in the way of having a good time in the game, and stop.
Since we are a group of friends who communicate well and trust each other, the card does not get overused, and when it does get used it's effective, and less mind grinding occurs. Sometimes, an agreed upon, clear cut message that dosen't require anyone getting into details is the best way to make sure no one gets offended about trivial matters.
I did ask apparently we had wildly differing opinions on hot. Now I just make personal bowls with my magic bullet everyone gets what they want except my son ( I can bring my self to make salsa with sweet and sour sauce for a 4 year old)
I used to love really hot and spicy foods. Then I turned 40 and now I'm knock knock knocking on 50's door and those days are long gone.
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I used to love really hot and spicy foods. Then I turned 40 and now I'm knock knock knocking on 50's door and those days are long gone.
Wow I'm only about 14 months from 40. I hope that doesnt happen to me. I used to have a horrile spice palate but I've got a devotion to hotwings that I wouldnt expect could be shaken.
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I used to love really hot and spicy foods. Then I turned 40 and now I'm knock knock knocking on 50's door and those days are long gone.Wow I'm only about 14 months from 40. I hope that doesnt happen to me. I used to have a horrile spice palate but I've got a devotion to hotwings that I wouldnt expect could be shaken.
It isn't the intake that causes the problems :)
34: Don't prsent a list of what is Courtesy.
Paradox alert! Paradow Alert! *Explosion*
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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It isn't the intake that causes the problems :)I used to love really hot and spicy foods. Then I turned 40 and now I'm knock knock knocking on 50's door and those days are long gone.Wow I'm only about 14 months from 40. I hope that doesnt happen to me. I used to have a horrile spice palate but I've got a devotion to hotwings that I wouldnt expect could be shaken.
Amen.
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Amen.It isn't the intake that causes the problems :)I used to love really hot and spicy foods. Then I turned 40 and now I'm knock knock knocking on 50's door and those days are long gone.Wow I'm only about 14 months from 40. I hope that doesnt happen to me. I used to have a horrile spice palate but I've got a devotion to hotwings that I wouldnt expect could be shaken.
What was the name of that famous Johnny Cash song again?
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Mikaze, would you be asking about the song Ring of Fire?
32: When making a character ask yourself...Would I want to travel with this guy? Would I want to risk my life with this guy? If the answear is no...than change the concept to be atleast a little bit more likeable.
Reminds me of a game I was playing in once. The "face" of the party was the guy who negotiated our deals and such. Turns out he was totally scamming the party, keeping half of all the gold we earned for himself, plus his "fair" share of the half the rest of us saw. This was a D&D game, so we were soon pretty far behind the gold-per-level guideline.
When people started to make disgruntled noices OOCly, he was all "you have no way to know that ICly!" Except, that I was the party magic item crafter, so I knew exactly how much gold he'd been spending on magic items, compared to how much gold the rest of us had earned our entire career.
In the end I just looked at the player and said something like "seriously, I can't think of a single good reason why my character would want to travel with yours."
It got a bit better after that.
I once played with a group where the party face was a charlatan rogue with little diplomacy but a decent bluff, and the second choice was a cleric who made big long speeches that were unrelated to the conversation sometimes. Party cohesion was non existent and I had no idea why my character would work with them beyond personal gain or being gullible.
Party Cohesion I'm not sure is basic courtesy or something that just has to happen. I know plenty of groups that have none and work just fine, but I personally prefer it when there is some. Gives a more friendly vibe to everyone in the group I feel like, even if its in role play only.
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I once played with a group where the party face was a charlatan rogue with little diplomacy but a decent bluff, and the second choice was a cleric who made big long speeches that were unrelated to the conversation sometimes. Party cohesion was non existent and I had no idea why my character would work with them beyond personal gain or being gullible.
Party Cohesion I'm not sure is basic courtesy or something that just has to happen. I know plenty of groups that have none and work just fine, but I personally prefer it when there is some. Gives a more friendly vibe to everyone in the group I feel like, even if its in role play only.
This is part of what I was trying to get across to you in the other thread about GM's rejecting concepts.
A large part of the GM's job is to encourage players toward concepts that will create a fun party and away from concepts that will make being a party difficult. This can mean saying no to a rules viable concept that just doesn't work for a given campaign.
This is part of what I was trying to get across to you in the other thread about GM's rejecting concepts.
A large part of the GM's job is to encourage players toward concepts that will create a fun party and away from concepts that will make being a party difficult. This can mean saying no to a rules viable concept that just doesn't work for a given campaign.
Not everyone plays like you. Telling me your way is the best for the 100th time won't change my opinions. This is not the time, nor place for this conversation.
I like to think its a group effort. Different groups play differently. Cohesion is weird. The types of games you would see out of a frat, high school, and between 40 year old men is going to be different. There are many more types of relationships than that, such as family or PFS. In not everyone is the GM an arbiter of all things, and in many the responsibility lies in each player as an individual, and many times it is done without thinking and in relation to personality and individuality.
Wasn't our talk about courtesy?
Reminds me of a game I was playing in once. The "face" of the party was the guy who negotiated our deals and such. Turns out he was totally scamming the party, keeping half of all the gold we earned for himself, plus his "fair" share of the half the rest of us saw. This was a D&D game, so we were soon pretty far behind the gold-per-level guideline.
When people started to make disgruntled noices OOCly, he was all "you have no way to know that ICly!" Except, that I was the party magic item crafter, so I knew exactly how much gold he'd been spending on magic items, compared to how much gold the rest of us had earned our entire career.
In the end I just looked at the player and said something like "seriously, I can't think of a single good reason why my character would want to travel with yours."
It got a bit better after that.
I did something similair once. This was FR and my character had a feat that allowed her to sell items at 75% instead of 50%. My GM also allowed diplomacey to increase it even more. So my character took a cut(like I think 10%).
Now out of game I cleared it with all the other players first so it did not cause any problems. That is a very important step people sometimes over look....mmmm
34: If you are going do something...'shady' ask permission out of game to make sure everyone is fine with it.
35: Don't take what you learn from the above rule in game.
More importantly find out the GM's permission. Odds are players won't object when you sell items at higher cost and increase the groups GP pot.
Players = GM.
Also we ignored the WBL guideline...so that is not a issue.
Now out of game I cleared it with all the other players first so it did not cause any problems. That is a very important step people sometimes over look....mmmm
I think that's a really good point. If the guy had talked to us about it first, and not treated it like it was some kind of OOC secret (and then forget where he got the money from and ask me to make him a 10,000 gp ring) it wouldn't have been nearly as much of an issue.
But ultimately I think you're responsible to make a character that can work with the group. If your character is the edgy one that refuses to get along with anyone and only really hang around the group because it would be a headache for the GM if you went on a solo adventure, then maybe it's time to rethink something.
Not everyone plays like you.Correct. And not everyone plays like you. And so if you come into a group that plays in a way that you traditionally don't play, it isn't your job to be a missionary bringing your beliefs to the savages.
I wasn't doing it. I was responding to you making a comment that applied to your play style personally, but spoke of as though it should apply to everyone. Also
This is not the time, nor place for this conversation.
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Not everyone plays like you.Correct. And not everyone plays like you. And so if you come into a group that plays in a way that you traditionally don't play, it isn't your job to be a missionary bringing your beliefs to the savages.I wasn't doing it. I was responding to you making a comment that applied to your play style personally, but spoke of as though it should apply to everyone.
And I think that it does apply to everyone who wants to have basic courtesy. I feel confident I understand the purpose of the thread, and if this is the time or place.
I am the OP, after all.
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You missed my favorite!
XX. Never game with any group of people you wouldn't ordinarily want to spend a pleasant evening with.
And I think that it does apply to everyone who wants to have basic courtesy. I feel confident I understand the purpose of the thread, and if this is the time or place.
I am the OP, after all.
Basic courtesy is giving the GM total control and the sole responsibility of party cohesion? I don't think that applies to everyone. Which was my point. This back and forth was started you telling me I needed to start playing like that, and then you claim I'm the one playing missionary to barbarians because I state there are many play styles.
OP doesn't give you extra authority over others.
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A touch of advice for both the 'not prepared between turns' and the 'distracted by electronics' issues:
Ask for their actions. Wait a reasonable amount of time. Slowly count, outloud, to five. Ask one more time, and if still no answer, move to the next player.
Works like a champ.
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And I think that it does apply to everyone who wants to have basic courtesy. I feel confident I understand the purpose of the thread, and if this is the time or place.
I am the OP, after all.
Basic courtesy is giving the GM total control and the sole responsibility of party cohesion? I don't think that applies to everyone. Which was my point. This back and forth was started you telling me I needed to start playing like that, and then you claim I'm the one playing missionary to barbarians because I state there are many play styles.
OP doesn't give you extra authority over others.
Basic courtesy is trying to ensure party cohesion. Which is part of the reason why a GM should try to make sure the party has a reason to be a party and each concept will fit into the campaign and the group.
Go back and read my comment to you. Let me know where you find anything you just said I said.
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Mr Sin, I believe Ciretose's opinion is that a primary task for both players and the GM is facilitating party cohesion, and that the GM does that through figuring out what sort of issues can/will arise from the party (A CE rogue and a LG paladin in the same team; a goblin and a kobold), while the players job is to behave in a way that also makes the players work as a team.