Playing with Fire (Spoilers)

[flamethrower49]

I've become enchanted with this adventure path, and hope to run it once my current game concludes. I have a question for all the current and future DMs of this one.

How do you plan to deal with the inevitable character who want to play a pyromaniac firespout? Or even just a regular sorcerer who happens to learn Scorching Ray and Fireball? Those staple spells seem to become disproportionately powerful in this adventure path, at least during the first and second adventures.

Spoilers ahoy.

Spoiler:

It's hit and miss throughout the first adventure. Pretty much everything in chapter two is fire-vulnerable, but it's tempered by the fact that your average level one and two options for fire attacks kinda suck. Alchemist's Fire could be an issue. At least Hommelstaub thought to pick up Resist Fire. The later foes are mostly of the normal variety.

The second book, it seems to become more of an issue, when you can start using Scorching Ray and Fireball to fight waves of Winter Wolves and Ice Trolls. I'm especially concerned for Logrivich. I think of myself as a veteran DM of dragons, and as written, I think he will easily be eaten alive by any 6th-level fire-wielding caster.

Any thoughts on how to minimize this hazard, or is it not as bad as it looks? Any word from the designers about whether this will be a big problem in the remainder of the path?

[Ansel Krulwich]

Well...

Spoiler:

More than a few of the fire-vulnerable monsters state they target fire-wielding players first. I imagine two frost firs would make mincemeat out of a sorcerer once they identified him as the immediate threat

[Tangent101]

I've got to agree with Ansel. Have the firebugs targeted quickly once they start USING fire magic (or greek fire). Also, you can't hit what you can't see. Many of the fae use stealth or the environment to hide from the characters.

Finally, there is an encounter in the second book with a group of

Spoiler:

gremlins that go after the party's food

. Have them go after the greek fire as well. Suddenly the party is missing a weapon that would really benefit them and they have to think of new methods of fighting these critters.

[Ataraxias]

Piggybacking off Ansel::

If anyone complains "Well there's no way they should've known I would use fire spells!."

That may apply to random feral creatures in the wilderness; but be aware of the many mirrors scattered about the adventure.

Each one present during a battle can possibly communicate the threat of fire to later enemies.

This is especially present in the Pale Tower, where there's mirrors in nearly every room. And after Radosek's death Nazhena and anyone she would be in contact with would definitely be on heightened alert.

[Ansel Krulwich]

Oh, you can have so much fun with this...

Spoiler:

If the Pale Tower guards are tipped off to the players or their abilities (because of the mirrors or Meirul or the ravens), have them post warnings in Waldsby that practicing fire magic is now an offense punishable by death. If you know that it wouldn't be overselling it to your players (you don't want to overplay your hand, after all), have the guards round up a villager or two that "just happened to have" a bottle or two of alchemist's fire hidden in their house and put them to the sword. Have them feel a tinge of guilt for possibly being the cause for such misfortune. The players are really not supposed to like the White Witch or her methods at all.

Dredge up all the old fairy tale villainy that you can imagine. Your players will be eager to sack the Pale Tower before the book's halfway done.

[Rycaut]

Generally I'm of the philosophy of let every player have a chance to shine. A fire Mage will indeed shine against many of the foes in this Adventure Path and my mind that's a great thing. Especially if the rest of the party also have their chances. If one character completely dominates then I think I'll adjust. In my game which has just started I have an Ifrit fire oracle. I'm sure she will have many chances to literally shine throughout the AP. but so too should the rest of the party if I do my job as a DM.

And yes this will include having foes target fire magic wielders when and if they become aware of it including via active mirrors.

[Swashbucklersdc]

Although not exactly the same, how about characters that start with cold iron weapons? They ignore the Dr of almost half the opponents in the first adventure and a lot in the second...

[closetgamer]

Swashbucklersdc wrote:

Although not exactly the same, how about characters that start with cold iron weapons? They ignore the Dr of almost half the opponents in the first adventure and a lot in the second...

Cold Iron weapons cost twice the normal price, that's one deterrent. Other than Yuln's Cold Iron Longsword and the +1 Cold Iron Sling Bullets at Isker's Smithy, my PC's won't have access to Cold Iron before setting out. Solves that problem.

As for fire-based blasters. I agree with Rycaut. There are plenty of ways to get around that issue.

[flamethrower49]

closetgamer wrote:

As for fire-based blasters. I agree with Rycaut. There are plenty of ways to get around that issue.

Which ones do you plan to use?

[Rycaut]

I will adjust based on the encounters and how the party is progressing and whether every player appears engaged and having fun. If not then I would try to see what would engage the party - "random" encounters could be one approach (if not too punitively deadly and if the xp would be helpful).

Also the weather conditions will go a ways towards impacting fire based casters. Conditions of heavy snow and heavy falling snow will make ranged attacks harder and would likely interact with spells in many ways. I might have snows melt then if it is cold enough turn to black ice soon thereafter. And things that are caught on fire will likely be doused by snowfall if the combat is outdoors.

And very likely my players will play up the impact of weather on their warm weather loving characters. (One player bought cold weather gear to handle regular temperatures)

Mostly however I try not to be a punative DM. If I play tactics as written but also as seemingly intended I generally can deliver a challenge to my players without getting into an arms race (which after all a DM will always "win" but may not have players for the next sessions)

[closetgamer]

flamethrower49 wrote:

closetgamer wrote:

As for fire-based blasters. I agree with Rycaut. There are plenty of ways to get around that issue.

Which ones do you plan to use?

All of those already suggested are good. The environmental issues mentioned are probably where I'll go.

[Danneth Sky]

I'm actually finding the opposite problem in the RoW game I'm running. Several of the players have winter-themed characters (winter witch, arctic druid, etc).

They have cold resist, but a lack of fire attacks, and man, it is ROUGH going for them.

[Swashbucklersdc]

We have an arctic druid in my campiagn also, but he took the fire domain instead of an animal companion; kinda interesting. He worships the god of volcanoes and winter from Tien.

[Tangent101]

Long ago I was trying to craft my own roleplaying game; one of the seven types of magic out there was fire/ice magic. I could easily see a druid utilizing both aspects. Iceland alone shows that you can have a realm of both fire and ice.

[Danneth Sky]

Swashbucklersdc wrote:

We have an arctic druid in my campiagn also, but he took the fire domain instead of an animal companion; kinda interesting. He worships the god of volcanoes and winter from Tien.

Yeah. . . my player took the Water domain, which makes more sense to me. Of course, his offensive abilities are next to useless in most encounters, but he's getting a lot of mileage out of the utility/defensive aspects of it.

[Kazuo Kuroba]

So my players are safely inside Whitethrone and will be shopping, anyone have opinions on if fey bane and flaming weapons should be hard to obtain?

[Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal]

Flaming definitely, Fey bane...
Considering that a lot of the Fey of Feyfrost are problematic for other 'powers' of Irrisen I suspect that Fey-bane weapons are going to be kind of like AR 15's in the US, you can find them, but you need to have a good excuse for why you want them. Depending on what kind of identity papers the PC's have, they may need to go through the 'black market' to acquire those sorts of weapons, increased risk & cost, but not impossible.

Reviewing your question Kazuo, yeah, I guess they both would be 'hard' to find, not impossible, particularly once/if your PC's hook up with the Heralds of Summer's Return; but definitely hard.

[The Drunken Dragon]

The sheer number of trolls in the area kind of necessitate fire. While many of these creatures are fire vulnerable...they're also pretty resistant to everything else. And if they target fire users specifically, it should be pretty tough to protect your one fire user while he makes the fight fair...