It has occurred to me that I've never taken a truly thorough look at the prestige classes. May have glanced over them once or twice on certain matters, but not thoroughly. This said, I decided to marvel at many of the different options, and from a flavor perspective, the Dragon Disciple has caught my eye.
However, although I wish to attempt a dragon disciple, I have ALOT of things to consider.
A. What race should I be? Naturally, I could go human, but what fun would that be, going human every time?
B. To Crossblood, or not to crossblood?
B2. If crossblooded, what should the second bloodline be? I've been thinking either elemental or orc bloodline, as elemental would allow me to change the energy type of damage of any spell I cast to whatever I get the bonus damage for my dragon type as (acid dragon + Earth Elemental for example). Alternatively, having +2 damage per die rolled on any spell that matches the dragon's elemental type can be extremely painful at higher levels, but at the cost of being dazzled in daylight.
C. How many levels is typically the best to put into dragon disciple? From what I am seeing, it appears as though 8 levels tends to be pretty nice, although having the form of the dragon upgrade to 2 times per day and also having it become form of the dragon II is very nice at level 10.
D. With consideration of the choices above, what would one typically say would be some of the more notable feats to gain that would not be covered by the bloodline, or should be taken even earlier than the earliest time that the bloodline (or bloodlines if crossblooded) would allow?
Personally aiming for a sorcerer that has a bruiser playstyle, focusing more on brutality and having spell support to increase the potential of the character, or for more utility spells other than some potential damage spells that would go well in conjunction with whatever bloodlines chosen.
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Greetings, fellow travellers.
Your first stop should be Oterisk's Guide to the DD and the accompanying discussion thread.
Many questions you have will be answered!
Ruyan.
I really dislike the crossblooded archetype. So many people post builds with it when all it really gives you is a bloodline arcana, in exchange for -2 will and a bunch fewer spells known (which, I might add, puts you yet another level behind wizards in terms of highest level spell known). Draconic is one of the better bloodlines, you don't need to cross it with anything.
Most of the other things should be covered by the guides RuyanVe posted.
I always liked the idea of monk/sorceror, but found that unarmed fighter / sorceror worked better.
But depends on what type of DD you want to be. That guide makes my head hurt looking at it, so just go with what you think you like
Cross-blooded works very well for blasters, getting power and limited drawbacks (since you use the spell slots with metamagic, and don't need the same versatility).
Unless you are dedicated to blasting however, it is most likely not worth it.
Ok, from the guide, I've got some decent ideas, but still want some opinions on the available options.
As far as bloodlines go, currently leaning towards crossblooded draconic/orc, or draconic/elemental.
Option A: I do 3 levels in sorcerer, 2 levels in monk.
Pros: This makes it extremely easy to gain dragon style and dragon ferocity, providing both stunning fist and unarmed strike. With this, I could use one feat to gain feral combat training with a weapon proficiency in claws, thus gaining a massive bonus to my damage output. By having 3 levels in sorcerer, I am able to more quickly gain my next bloodline power, as well as bloodline spell.
Cons: I have to be lawful (usually I enjoy being closer to chaotic...), and the overall usefulness doesn't pay off as handily early on, atleast not until about level 5, at which I'll have the basic setup for gaining bonus damage on all the claw strikes. Also, compared to Option B and C, has slightly less health.
Option B: I do 3 levels in sorcerer, 2 levels in Ranger.
Pros: Similar to Option A in the concept, but provides combat style feats for natural weapons, such as Improved Natural Weapon and Rending Claws as options at level 2. I am curious though if I did take this route, which would generally be better... I'm thinking Improved Natural Attack, but that's just me. Notably compared to the monk, gives +1 more BAB than going monk, but at the cost of 2 less will.
Cons: Isn't as quick in getting the dragon fighting styles working with claws.
Option C: 3 levels in sorcerer, 2 levels in fighter.
Pros: I COULD go in a very similar route as the previous two, but additionally I could also go towards other combat related feat that may aid in the damage output with the fighters bonus feats. Things such as Sorcerous Bloodstrike or Arcane Strike for example. Keeps up with the same BAB and has the same Hit dice as the Ranger.
Cons: While extremely flexible, generally provides slightly less than the other two, especially in terms of saving throws.
Option D: 2 Levels in (fighter, ranger, monk), 2 levels in (fighter, ranger, monk), 1 level in sorcerer.
Pros: This build would have an extremely good early BAB compared to the other options thus far. In addition, with the various feats mentioned before from the various options, can be a pretty powerful threat.
Cons: All of this brute force, however, comes at the cost of major amounts of versatility, having a lot less flexibility in utility due to the much lowered number of spells.
Levels after that are primarily going to be for dragon disciple, but the lead up to it, I feel, can greatly change the direction in how it may play.
Ok, this is what I've decided this far, for both a flavor perspective (shortened) and a strategic perspective...
Background: A half-orc abandoned by his parents, he was left in front of a monk temple. Being raised here, he learned many disciplines and arts, however in the back of his mind, urges scratched at the back of his mind, to do things that were not taught within the temple. The progression worsened, until he himself decided to exile himself in fear that these bestial tendencies would soon consume him. With no teacher to train him further in his arts, he used what little knowledge he did to gain more insight about the wilderness. Little by little, he had become adept at knowing the wilds, until one day he was confronted by the typical bandits along a forest road. Nearly beaten to death, an infernal rage took over him. When he returned to his senses, all that remained were the strewn corpses of his foes. Looking down at his hands, he had noticed they had taken the form of draconic claws. It had become apparent what the urges were from then on.
Half-Orc (with alternate racial trait Toothy)
Level 1, Master of many styles Monk 1: Dragon Style (monk bonus feat), improved unarmed strike (monk), Stunning Fist(monk), Fuse Style(monk), Toughness(level 1 feat)
Level 2, Master of many styles Monk 2: Dragon Ferocity(monk bonus feat), Evasion(monk)
Level 3, Guide Ranger 1: Ranger's Focus(ranger), Track(ranger), wild empathy(ranger), Weapon Focus(Claws)(level 3 feat)
level 4, Guide Ranger 2: Aspect of the Beast(Natural Weapon Combat Style)
Level 5, Crossblooded Orc/(Green)Draconic Sorcerer 1: Bloodline Power(Draconic), Cantrips(sorc), Eschew Materials(sorc), Feral Combat Training(level 5 feat)
At later levels, thinking of getting the feats Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack, Arcane Strike, as well as Sorcerous Bloodstrike.
Doubtful that the GM would allow guild features from inner sea, however there is a possibility for magical knack atleast.
I hate crossblooded archetype (strongly). I do like eldritch heritage feats when going into DD though.
Just remember like they pointed out above DD does not advance the cross blooded features(orc) only the dragon bloodline features.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
Your first stop should be Oterisk's Guide to the DD and the accompanying discussion thread.
Many questions you have will be answered!
Ruyan.
Thanks for those links. I love the Dragon Disciple -- the idea of someone freely and slowly giving up their humanity (or elfianity, or dwarfianity, or whatever) to become something inhuman just appeals to me for some reason.
Don't forget to take full advantage of Fuse Style. You have room for one more.
While this is true, it is probably something that would be done later with additional feats.
I hate crossblooded archetype (strongly). I do like eldritch heritage feats when going into DD though.
While I agree eldritch heritage can be handy, it does require a Skill Focus Feat, followed by the Eldritch Heritage feat, which consumes quite a bit of room that is already pretty full. If I may ask, what about crossblooded don't you like? I can see a few downsides and potentially as to why, but just wondering if there was some other factor I did not know about.
Just remember like they pointed out above DD does not advance the cross blooded features(orc) only the dragon bloodline features.
As far as the bonus feats, you are correct, as it explicitly states from the draconic bloodline. As far as power progression though, it simply states sorcerer, so it is somewhat GM discretion. Despite this, you are probably right in this case in how my GM would react. This said, I'm wondering if orc would really be the best second bloodline option, if any.
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As far as the bonus feats, you are correct, as it explicitly states from the draconic bloodline. As far as power progression though, it simply states sorcerer, so it is somewhat GM discretion. Despite this, you are probably right in this case in how my GM would react. This said, I'm wondering if orc would really be the best second bloodline option, if any.
I tend to prefer Orc as an Eldritch Heritage, that way you avoid the penalties associated with it, Abyssal makes a pretty good cross blooded option imo for a DD with a melee focus.
If I may ask, what about crossblooded don't you like? I can see a few downsides and potentially as to why, but just wondering if there was some other factor I did not know about.
Firstly the DD class was written before crossblooded and there are odd interactions within the rules.
I don't think (by RAW) Dragon Disciple advances both bloodlines, yet if you read Osterisk's guide one of the key components of his guide is that it does. I'm solidly against this and that's one reason I do not like his guide. If you just look at this thread you will see I'm not alone in my thinking. Although houserules are great and I have nothing against them when advise is given on these boards I typically like to limit rules variation. Going straight Draconic is just much CLEANER and if you want a similar feel to crossblooded then the Eldritch Hertitage feats do it in a much nicer way.
Secondly it drastically limits spell casting. Going into Dragon Disciple normally will slow the progression at which you get spells. Crossblooded will slow it even further. I consider it a trap to go Crossblooded unless you like getting a single 3rd level spell at level 8. If you go crossblooded and do something like paladin4/sorc1/DD you will only get your 3rd level spell after 8 levels of dragon disciple. Admittedly if your campaign starts at level 15 or something then this problem is somewhat mitigated. If you play through all the levels it's painful.
I think Crossblooded is an OK archetype in of itself. It kind of opens some fun things with metamagic that one might not normally try and opens up some options if you like blasting. I just don't think it's for the Dragon Disciple.