I would suggest asking your DM to throw you a bone. Thats not even enough for masterwork and if you aren't casting spells you aren't being a wizard. Low levels are bad enough.
2d6x10gp. is a wizards starting gold. *shrug*
Yeah, you aren't going to get magic items. Not even a wand. Not much in the way of scrolls either. Its really just a bad situation for a wizard.
had 4 scrolls... >.> I think they stuck in my spellbook.
I can't say thats a bad situation enough times. Might want to talk to your DM about that sort of mess. I wouldn't find it fun myself.
Yeah, I had a campaign start off similarly, a lich was gathering "specimens" from across different worlds, a bunch of lvl-1s without any gear wake up in a neglected cell of his...
The main difference is the DM warned us the campaign would be starting that way before we made characters, so we could prepare a little, and made sure we got basic class gear within a couple sessions. Since I was playing an alchemist who was abducted from his school, I asked if he could start off with his formula book in the form of scribbled class notes on his arms. It still took a while to get alchemy gear to use them, but he did send us through an arcane library before long, and in the meantime throw anything plus bags full of silverware or tools were rather amusing for a change of pace.
Personally I would say that is the only real problem, the DM should have warned the players it would start as "no gear" adventure. But it is a real problem...
Since a second level of wizard improves your BAB to +1, you're just as well off going for that than a level of... something else, in that regard. I would go ranger for level 3 if you still don't have your book by that point though. It would kinda suck to throw off your spellcasting progression for the whole campaign if it turns out that get your stuff back soon.
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I would talk to your GM before taking levels in something else. If you want to play a wizard, got into the game, then are denied everything about being a wizard then something went wrong and should probably be resolved OOC.
i admit, +1 BAB/Will could be nice, i get bonus spells i can write....
The last time I played a wizard, the GM allowed no downtime, I ended the campaign knowing the minimum number of spells 2 per level.
As a DM I tend to follow the golden rule of Paizo's message boards "Don't be a jerk." This has kept players from walking away, getting frustrated, getting hurt feelings etc. A game is a social contract. Break the rules and there isn't game.
Only once I've done the "you're captured and all you're stuff is taken away" shtick but the very first priority after escape was getting their stuff back. I think it was A 4, one of the slaver adventures.
Exactly. So much of this topic seems to be centered on games where the focus on Rules As Written trumps the suspension of disbelief that's required for the game to begin with. The game depends on an artificial balance for it to function - hence the challenge ratings for encounters, which ignore conventional logic by increasing proportionately to the characters' own level gains ("Have you noticed how we only seem to be encountering more powerful monsters and enemies lately?"). The challenge is to craft a story - an adventure - that challenges the players without ruining that suspension of disbelief.
In popular fiction, what random cutpurses and cutthroats aligned with the local Thieves Guild (or whatever) have the gall to go after an adventuring band? Generally, the ones too foolish to know what's coming to them if they do. What about in a game, though? The existence of certain Feats and rules systems shouldn't mean that they are suddenly able to pull off these highly-coordinated surgical attacks that focus on specific class and racial weaknesses. That sort of thing should be reserved for meaningful moments in a campaign. If every encounter boils down to NPCs that are remarkably familiar with such rule-driven tactics, then the game itself devolves to power-gaming and trying to maximize a template... as opposed to role-playing.
If that's the game you like, then fair enough! But I think it's fair to say that said style isn't what the OP and players of like mind felt they signed up for. I can't say I blame them.
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You went through a full level without being even given the opportunity to recover or replace your spellbook? Have you talked to the DM? Hes being a jerk. I would suggest you dont change your game plan for your character, especially if it would affect you this badly. There is such a thing as fair play even in D&D and only a self-entitled jack ass of a DM would say "tough luck, its my game and my story". This is not player entitlement, this is simply decency towards a fellow gamer and friend.
As for killing a witches familliar, unless it happens through mass effect spell, you are a bad bad DM. Seriously, you're in the middle of combat and decide to go after the house cat who's not attacking you? Why? Its not a threat. If anythig attacking said cat (or whatever other pet) puts you more at risk. It means you've spent one of your valuable actions to down something other then any of the dangerous people you are currently facing, its stupid and petty.
in theory had the capability, up to and including some of our party holding said book. before everyone once again being captured. rogue did find a weapon, though. a coconut filled with darts...
You all act like your characters are incapable of doing anything in the world they inhabit that does not directly tap their class abilities.
The OP mentioned slavers. Okay, so he was captured by slavers and they took his spellbook?
Perhaps the GM expected the player to negotiate, talk his way out of something, try to find a way to escape, strike a bargain with another slave to help him get his book back, accept a mission and get his book back as payment, and, oh, I don't know, play like his character is a character in a story, rather than a unit in a wargame who has no purpose without his stat card.
ZERO.
Sympathy.
is true, that was dm expectation, but never got a chance to negotiate with anyone. while my char was tied to the mast, with a magic negating collar around his neck (which amusingly enough the weaker half-orc was tied to a pair of oars, instead). Any talking resulted in being whipped, eventually knocking me low enough the lightning bolt ko'd me. the LS paladin bullrushed one of the slavers overboard, resulting in the slavers attacking party as the ship sank. So far, if we hadn't been recaptured be tempted to make a spellbook out of monkey skin & blood. C'est la vie.
Not looking for sympathy, really. trying to figure out if any other class is nearly as neutered as a wiz, esp low level, that is without a spell book.
Note that you should get the two spells per level regardless. A spellbook itself is just simply an empty book to write in, and the two spells per level represent your independent study and research, not buying spells.
But that said, I agree with everyone else: This is an OOC issue. At the very least the DM should allow you to retrain the wizard level. But being captured and stripped of equipment twice in two levels sounds like a lot regardless. When you've been captured, has it been because you acted stupidly or after a tough and quite even fight, or has it been more DM-fiaty (fifty slavers coming to get you, or you waking up at night already captured, or walking into a trap you can't get out of etc)?
well, to be fair, weren't stripped of equippage twice. (well... 2 of our party was) and we didn't meet up with them because we didn't look around a rock...>.> *shrug* and group I was with got ambushed by 4 Yuan-ti vs our 3. KO'd our only healer (I had healing at one point, but couldnt use). knocked out the rouge (though we got the caster). I had to choose between walking away and casting, casting in melee, or 5' and casting vanish (so 50/50 chance * 3 of being hit)...
granted, that was after the monkey swarms, in which i cast my one spell... colour spray.... gonna turn monkey into spellbook once i find them again...
You all act like your characters are incapable of doing anything in the world they inhabit that does not directly tap their class abilities.
The OP mentioned slavers. Okay, so he was captured by slavers and they took his spellbook?
Perhaps the GM expected the player to negotiate, talk his way out of something, try to find a way to escape, strike a bargain with another slave to help him get his book back, accept a mission and get his book back as payment, and, oh, I don't know, play like his character is a character in a story, rather than a unit in a wargame who has no purpose without his stat card.
ZERO.
Sympathy.
Here, I'll run a game for you.
Everyone else can play Gestalt characters with 25 point buy and you get to play a Commoner with the basic NPC stat array.
You shouldn't have a problem with it. After all, you can RP your way out of every situation since class features are irrelevant.
You went through a full level without being even given the opportunity to recover or replace your spellbook? Have you talked to the DM? Hes being a jerk. I would suggest you dont change your game plan for your character, especially if it would affect you this badly. There is such a thing as fair play even in D&D and only a self-entitled jack ass of a DM would say "tough luck, its my game and my story". This is not player entitlement, this is simply decency towards a fellow gamer and friend.
As for killing a witches familliar, unless it happens through mass effect spell, you are a bad bad DM. Seriously, you're in the middle of combat and decide to go after the house cat who's not attacking you? Why? Its not a threat. If anythig attacking said cat (or whatever other pet) puts you more at risk. It means you've spent one of your valuable actions to down something other then any of the dangerous people you are currently facing, its stupid and petty.
There is a witch in one of the campaigns I am in, and that witches familiar spends more time in combat than the witch. Both attacking on its own, and having spells cast through it. As a DM, while it may not be the first target, I would have no problem attacking it.
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Is it OK to take away an item vital to the effective functioning of a character?
Of course it is, when used sparingly and to advance a greater story that will be a lot of fun. GMs should not repeatedly target these items in illogical ways, but having intelligent enemies (particularly recurring villains who know the party and their abilities/weaknesses well) do so occasionally or using this as a way to spring a new adventure every once in a long while can be awesome.
It used to be far more common. Someone already mentioned the Slaver's series of adventures, which starts out that way. I recall the Horde seeries in 2nd edition D&D had a similar plot device in which a group of monks the PCs go to for information throws all their equipment down into a bottomless canyon because they are "meaningless material possessions that limit their personal growth" or something like that. Both were fun adventures despite the handicaps of the start.
Spellbooks, in particular, have always been a wizard's Achilles heel, and there is a long tradition of wizards losing them, having them stolen, etc. countered by a tradition just as long of paranoid wizards going to extraordinary lengths to protect them.
In 3.X/PF, it's a bit trickier, because characters, particularly when optimized specialists, tend to become pretty dependent on things like spellbooks, holy items, familiars, specialized weapons, bonded items, etc. and the drop in their power when they lose them is pretty steep.
The key is giving characters a realistic chance (and in my opinion several options) for recovering their items and/or their powers in a reasonably short period of time. Makes for a very challenging scenario, which can be even more satisfying when overcome. If you'd rather not be challenged in this way, probably not for your group.
One caveat: every group/player hates this when it happens to them, but many times, in retrospect, they appreciate the adventure that comes out of it. The slaver's modules in particular end up being a blast as you slowly become more powerful and take your revenge on the baddies.
So my advice would be to give it a try and, if you are having fun, just go with it. If not, maybe talk to the DM out of game and tell him you aren't having fun and why. Personally, I think going through an entire level without your spellbooks is a bit long, but perhaps there were ways to recover them and/or get new ones that your party just missed. In any event, he should, in fairness, continue to give you opportunities to recover your powers, even if doing so means adjusting the story a bit, hopefully in ways that don't threaten suspension of disbelief.
Like I said, I plan to if I survive this set of slavers to go find those thousand monkey corpses and craft a spellbook out of them... they already don't like me, what's the worst that could happen? seriously. already thought of jumping into the ocean when that second storm came up.
Like I said, I plan to if I survive this set of slavers to go find those thousand monkey corpses and craft a spellbook out of them... they already don't like me, what's the worst that could happen? seriously. already thought of jumping into the ocean when that second storm came up.
Think there's a feat, Spell Mastery or something like that. It allows you to remember a handful of spells that you can always prepare without your spellbook.
and come 3rd level, i may choose to forgo my original plan, and take that. had another option i thought would work better at 1st
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There is a witch in one of the campaigns I am in, and that witches familiar spends more time in combat than the witch. Both attacking on its own, and having spells cast through it. As a DM, while it may not be the first target, I would have no problem attacking it.You went through a full level without being even given the opportunity to recover or replace your spellbook? Have you talked to the DM? Hes being a jerk. I would suggest you dont change your game plan for your character, especially if it would affect you this badly. There is such a thing as fair play even in D&D and only a self-entitled jack ass of a DM would say "tough luck, its my game and my story". This is not player entitlement, this is simply decency towards a fellow gamer and friend.
As for killing a witches familliar, unless it happens through mass effect spell, you are a bad bad DM. Seriously, you're in the middle of combat and decide to go after the house cat who's not attacking you? Why? Its not a threat. If anythig attacking said cat (or whatever other pet) puts you more at risk. It means you've spent one of your valuable actions to down something other then any of the dangerous people you are currently facing, its stupid and petty.
There are exceptions to every scenario, i was talking about the majority here.
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A cleric without their Holy Symbol is stripped of many of their powers, as are most spell casters that lose their spell component pouch. While these maybe easier to replace than a spell book or familiar, they have a very similar effect.I do so much love the whine of; My character class has a limitation and the GM better not exploit it.
In the type of campaign that would have wizards stripped of their spellbooks, a cleric could invest a single skill point into crafting and make their own holy symbols.
The player has no more obligation to show up for your bad quest than he has to see a badly reviewed movie in theaters just because it cost a lot to produce.
If you want to focus the adventure on one player find out what your audience of one enjoys first. Chances are if he decided to roll up a wizard he did so because he likes playing wizards, not because he likes playing commoners with bad stat allocations and no weapon proficiencies.
If you put hours of effort into composing a duet for nails on chalkboard and steam whistles you shouldn't be surprised nobody wants to listen.
Thank you very much for the direct insult. It affirms my thoughts on the matter. Many players feel that they are fighting the GM, instead of trying to compose a story together. When the GM does something surprising to further the story that a player doesn't like, even if completely within the rules, some react as if they are under attack. Some do express their concerns in a constructive manner, but some others seem to fall into childish antics of name-calling, insults, pouting, and disrupting the game, all in an attempt to get "revenge" on the GM for daring to do something to their character.
My players know very well what they are getting into at the beginning of a campaign. I lay it out on the table before we start, so they know what to expect, and can get a feel for my GM style. Yes, temporary loss of something important to the character is a possible event , but the temporary loss is just that, temporary. I always present a way to regain what is lost, or to obtain something better. (And although I don't mention it, I also adjust the challenge to reflect the diminished capacity of the character. It should feel like a challenge!)
Perhaps how I GM isn't your cup of tea. Perhaps it is nails on a chalkboard to you. To each their own. I wish you the best of luck at your next table. Try to have fun!
Best and most rational post 2013.
You can't exactly prepare anything to stop your book from being stolen at level 1, apparently before play even starts. Which is the original scenario.
Wizard players are very sensitive about losing their spellbook because it is so easy. Have you played a pick pocket rogue? They are scary.
"I'll take that guv'na."
Is there another class as neutered as a wizard that loses 1 item?Monk that gets all his arms and legs chopped off.
What?
a monk (assuming he survived) can still flurry with his head, toung, shoulder, etc etc etc,
plus that's four items
plus there are prostetics, you could get replacement arms and legs better than your old ones.
This actually came up in one game, I don't think they can flurry with their head.
yea... something like that, shoulda been said at the get go. i've played nerfed char, so i dont mind too much, assuming eventually i'll get access to paper, so i can write my memorized spells down so i can use them more than once.Just curious… who says you have to use a book or paper? Why can’t you grab some wood, a dagger, and carefully etch your “spell book” using makeshift components? Granted the cost would still have to be the same. Perhaps you would need to treat the wood or some such but for 40 gold worth of components is there any reason why you couldn’t create a makeshift book in the interim?
I have always been under the impression there would be nothing wrong with this, spell books are simply used because they are more convenient but with only 4 spells using 4 good quality boards cut to the right size should work fine. Certainly I allow my players to do so if they need or desire to. Or would that be a house rule? (And if it is maybe you should still ask your GM about it they might agree)
I hear stone tablets are the in thing.