Use the leasership feat and stat the cohort as an Eidolon as if the PC were a Synethist summoner of their class level. Rather than summoning you have to physically get into it. Start them out Large sized for Escaflowne style Mecha progressing to Huge for Gundum.
I think OP, that you're 100% correct. The Ranger and Paladin are not only easier to build right out of the gate, but expose the new player to the entire game. When the campaign ends and they're ready to move onto a new character they can use their experience to decide what side of the game to focus on, or to play a similar gish character again. It's a gentle progression into how the game works on solid classes that have no trouble dealing with anything the game throws at them.
That being said, I don't feel the Fighter hate everyone's tossing around here is justified. Lets take the most recent (I think lol) archetype from Occult Adventures, the Senate and make a fighter that can DO things.
Human because feats are what we're here for.
Now the 10 INT is going to hurt... a LOT, but we can put our favoured class bonus in skill points, we're human, and as mentioned many times regarding the skill system: the DCs are relatively static in many skills so we don't need to be Bard level monkey here, just pretty good at them to feel we have a reasonable chance to succeed.
This gives us: 4 skill points at 1st level from human and favoured class bonus. We can take 2 skill based Traits to give us a boost in some skills that aren't on our list and to make them in class as well.
Sensate gets a different skill list: Acro, Climb, Craft, Perception, Prof, Ride, Sense motive, Survival and Swim. All in all a nice list to get things done. We have 4 points so lets go with: Perception, Sense motive, Survival and Acrobatics for jumping around.
Feats: We want to be as versitile and interesting as possible so I vote we focus on getting the most options we can from our feats.
So our Fighter ends up looking like this:
AC 20; Touch 13; Flat-Footed 17; (+5 armour, +2 Sheild, +3 Dex)
Speed 20ft (30 w/o armour)
Str 16+3, Dex 16+3, Con 14+2, Int 10+0, Wis 13+1, Cha 8
So what can Stan do?
In combat he has a slew of options that he's very skilled at. He can lead in with Flail and Shield if tanking is more what's needed at that time and knock people about due to Dirty tactics. 20 AC is really potent at this level and so he'll be able to take a few attacks.
If he wants to he can play the role of trip monkey with his Guisarme proning people from reach, and due to Improved grapple can drop the Guisarme and just wrestle anyone that comes too close (assuming he can't just back up)
Chakrums make him a strong ranged attacker at 1d8+3 damage.
Against casters his grapple mods will shut them down in their tracks with a +6 to the roll vs. their generally terrible CMDs and once they're grappled they're screwed since the check is 10+6+level of the spell for a minimum of DC 17 to cast. Which is pretty tough to manage at level 1.
So our fighter has good defenses, decent saves, a good selection of skills, albeit small, but they give him useful things to do outside combat. His stats and BAB and slew of feats gives him the ability to freely adopt any of 4 different combat styles all of which he can execute quite competently.
At level 2 he gains some further Will save enhancements, can broaden his skill set some more, or focus on a mainstay like say Power Attack or Deadly Aim, spend some points to pick up Diplomacy and advance his other skills.
At level 5 he gains a +1 insight bonus to attacks, damage and will saves pretty much all of the time that increases every 4 levels and weapon training as well, bolstering his offense and defense nicely.
This is not a bad level 1-5 character by any means. This guy is more than capable of pulling his weight in any party or adventure path and is a fighter with only 1 archetype and not even maxed out wealth and gear and whatnot.
However he definitely was not quick to make, and I had to know what I was doing. He is NOT a character for a new player IMO, unless that new player is receiving this guy as a pregen.
So personally I don't think Fighter is as terribad as everyone's saying and hope that my example of Stan here proves that well enough.
People really need to stop slammig 3pp as if its some universal answer. The 3pp in question is Dreamscarred Press for crying out load, which is 3pp of incredible quality by any measure. Additionally this rerolling ability on the stalker is nothing compared to what a prd only Magus could toss out.
So yeah, taking jabs at 3pp is poor form, and pretty disrespectful to the hard work of these people. Especially since we're playing a system that IS 3pp of 3.5 anyway...
Since you have a ki pool, you can multiclass magus and go the unlimited spells route: take ki - arcana so you can use your ki as arcane pool points, then take spell blending: ki leech and you've got the ability to crit / kill people for ki which you then spend on spell recall to recharge your spells. It requires 7 levels of Magus to do, but for what it is, waiting until level 9 isn't so bad.
One thing I've done to help with this HP thing is to allow players to spend Mythic Power defensively on additional surges. So a Mythic Fighter attacks, the opponent is hit, he doesn't want to be so he uses his surge to add 1d6 to his AC, rolls a 2, not enough, spends another point to increase it by another 1d6, rolls a 6 yay! But this is the first attack of a full attack so it still hits, speds another point rolls a 6 again forba miss. Defender now keeps this new AC for the rest of the round. Defeder is down 3 Mythic Power and the parties continue to fight. Same system applies to saves.
Problem with the phrasing of the acceptance of Burn. Since it's listed as simply being non-lethal damage is temporary hp, it's going to deal damage, that isn't reduced or mitigated by anything, to Temp HP first.
Temp HP, doesn't reduce, it doesn't redirect, it doesn't share, it's just another HP pool that you have that functions exactly like real hp except it doesn't stack with itself.
So what this means is that the Force Ward can be stacked patiently to insane levels because the temporary HP it grants will continue to soak the burn, allowing you to burn your ward to close to collapse, let it regenerate and then repeat resulting in a pool of temp hp that blocks out the sun.
And at higher levels persistant spell can be used to really impede saving throws anyway. There are heights of power available within the system sure, but what many people who decry these builds seem to forget is that pathfinder doesn't require the cutting edge of optimization in order to have a successful character. An EK is more than powerful wnough to tackle anything the game will throw at them. If something rears it's head that would give an EK pause, it's going to slaughter half the other classes in the game.
For me I've found Mystic Theurge to be a very viable route. The focus is on having a vast number of useful spells so that you're able to contribute markedly your entire carreer. People tend to focus heavily on comparing the MT to the overall power of a full caster and their ability to produce those high level effects, while ignoring that often those effects are overkill. The 6/9 casters are viable casters in their own right and with how powerful spellcasting is at all, even lower level spells (colour spray, glitterdust, web, haste) are game changers. I'm playing a character aiming for MT right now and to further push the issue I'm using an Oracle / Crossblooded Sorcerer split. This means I don't get my first actual 2nd level spell until sorcer 5 (character level 6)! On the surface this looks terrible, but at Sorc 3 / Oracle 1 right now my character has around a Dozen spell slots a day. 6 on the Sorc side and 5 from Oracle (yay 18 Cha).
Here's what I did:
Curse: Deaf, all spells cast as silent spells.
Sorcerer: bloodline arcanas: +1 DC on cold spells, change any element to cold.
This first series of feats allows you to at 1st level play the straight Oracle role of party support and healing. I ha a great Dex so I could plink away with a shortbow as well. Level 2 was a straight upgrade with Burning Hands allowing me to toss a strong debuff on multiple enemies at once which was great.
Anyway I've found the sheer breadth of options and volume of spellcasting to be invaluable. It's a different type of caster for sure, but absolutely one that is a valuable addition to any party.
Amazing. Wizards go from dominating the game from level 5 onward to being worse in combat than a ROGUE the moment they go 1 spell level behind and choose to support a secondary stat that has hundreds of ways to buff it through the roof. Who knew?!
Slower access to spells hasn't hurt the Sorcerer and it certainly doesn't hurt the EK. By mid levels the EK has more than enough game breaking magic at his disposal that he'll tear apart any combat he wants to. He is a full caster first and foremost able to leverage his powers as a Wizard(the strongest class in the game) to augment his melee prowess.
As opposed to the Eldritch Knight blinding an entire encounter with pyrotechnics or glitterdust before beating the crap out of everything as an enlarged unhittible monstrocity.
Yeah... Rogue has nothing on the EK.
Did you really just claim that a rogue would do better in combat than a tier 1 full caster? Because it really looks like you just did.
Edit: In response to this (should have quoted)
"And even if a rogue only has a better BAB at four levels, a rogue has a better BAB at four levels. You can make a combat-optimized rogue using the elf FCB to have chill touch available every fight, delivering touch-attack sneak attacks. Such a rogue would perform better in combat than an EK in most situations."
For the DBZ style magic monk synethist dors this tremendously well especially if you play a Samsaran and dump one level into crossblooded sorcerer for orc and dragon bloodlines. You snag scorching ray, fireball and something else for your spell list and can power up (summon eidolon) fly, punch with the force of greatswords, and kamehameha via scorching ray 4d6+8 per ray so 12d6+24 damage baseline and if you get high enough you can empower that for 18d6+36 from a 4th level slot.
Flight, great AC, a big ol' nuke and fist beatings = DBZ to me lol.
I was going to say the same thing. Your guide has people choosin their name before their race, picking their stats before they even know what class they are and thus what stats they'll need. Seems backwards to me. Especially for new players I tend to find working from Class to Attributes to race to name and background. Basically ask "what do you want to do? How do you want to do it? Where did you come from? And who are you?
Picking your name first means Elfy McGroverson is going to be erasing a lot when he reads the race section and class section and decides to actually play a dwarf warpriest.
Just my 2c.
Luna Foghorn wrote:
My Sylph multi-class Monk (Zen Archer) takes the Cloud Gazer racial feat to see through the fog she creates between herself and her enemies with her horn of fog. She has total concealment from them, while they have no concealment from her. Does she get to apply her SA dice to her attacks while within 30ft after the surprise round, as long as she maintains the total concealment?
Since the thread went into all sorts of crazy pretty quick I'll post an answer to the OP.
You may SA to your hearts content. Total Concealment means you're invisible to them, as you are totally concealed. If you are attacking while invisible, targets are denied their dex bonus to their AC and therefore you may sneak attack them.
None of the stealth rules and crap matters in this case, and indeed you aren't stealthing at all but full attacking with your arrows. All that matters is that they can't see you (total concealment) and therefore you are an invisible attacker and can SA.
Go for wizard 2 OP. As you've said you get 2 spells for free, so you'll be starting your new spellbook out of leaves, wood, bark or monkey leather. You'll be able to then prepare your empty slots with the new spells and be able to do your magic mojo again.
Keep in mind as well that cantrips do NOT need to be prepared each day. So you still have all your original cantrips in your head. Which probably means you can toss Daze around like a crazy person on each enemy each turn which is significant battle control for this level until you can get your full book back and toss out real spells like sleep and colour spray.
I'd buckle down through it, and come out swinging.
Alternatively, I don't know what you're wisdom is like, but if you must multiclass, go cleric and that way you can mystic theurge down the line for all sorts of castery goodness.