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I point-blank asked Sean about this a few months ago after one of these debates, and it's already been established that he worked on this section of the book before it was published.
As he told me, the reference to Protection from Evil is a reference to the mechanic.
I wonder what made him change his mind.
the stone-wayfinder resonant power only works on said effects from an evil source, because the resonant power specifically cites protection from evil.
Do we have to pay admission for this rollercoaster?
Nice find Grick.
Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco
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I wonder what made him change his mind.
the stone-wayfinder resonant power only works on said effects from an evil source, because the resonant power specifically cites protection from evil.
Hmmm, quite interesting. He may have forgotten he wrote this 18 months earlier. Clearly he had unslotted his ioun stone and couldn't resist my Dominate Game Designer spell. Oh wait, I'm not evil! Am I?
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Lol. I somehow missed that post from you! But the other Dna's post was more descriptive and got my attention. But you did say the same thing. Mea Culpa.
Gives June a discerning look. You're talking about me, right? Because that was my argument from the beginning! Other wise, I'm going to make you drink again next time we meet!Different perspective my patootie...
;)
This means you're drinking with me again!
Developer
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The resonance power of the clear spindle ioun stone in a wayfinder protects against evil spellcasters, spells, and objects exactly like the third paragraph of the spell protection from evil; it does not give blanket immunity to these effects from all alignment sources. The recent FAQ supports this.
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Hmmm, quite interesting. He may have forgotten he wrote this 18 months earlier. Clearly he had unslotted his ioun stone and couldn't resist my Dominate Game Designer spell. Oh wait, I'm not evil! Am I?I wonder what made him change his mind.
the stone-wayfinder resonant power only works on said effects from an evil source, because the resonant power specifically cites protection from evil.
The jury is still out on that one. :)
Probably was me being a bit rushed, either in the design of the item (text could have said it applied to all alignments) or because I was afraid of Dan (who could kick my butt without even trying) and wanted to quickly escape. ;)
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it does not give blanket immunity to these effects from all alignment sources. The recent FAQ supports this.
text could have said it applied to all alignments
Well, now it's clear as mud.
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Developer
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The reasoning that went into the rule when it was being developed doesn't matter at this point. The rule in print is clear and we have no intention to errata it on the message boards. So whatever led Sean to say anything prior to this thread is irrelevant (though I'd go with Dan taking 20 on his Intimidate check being the reason). The rule says what it says and that's how it should be interpreted in Pathfinder Society games.
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Well, now it's clear as mud.
Item says "as protection from evil."
FAQ says "Protection from evil only works against evil effects."Therefore, the item only works against evil effects.
Pretty clear, no?
(It only gets confusing if you refer to my private conversation with Dan from months ago, and that conversation isn't in the item description and isn't in the FAQ. Item description + FAQ = clear.)
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Well, now it's clear as mud.Item says "as protection from evil."
FAQ says "Protection from evil only works against evil effects."
Therefore, the item only works against evil effects.Pretty clear, no?
(It only gets confusing if you refer to my private conversation with Dan from months ago, and that conversation isn't in the item description and isn't in the FAQ. Item description + FAQ = clear.)
... except that what he was referencing was your comment above that the item description "could have said it applied to all alignments" which would imply that you thought it was meant to.
We get the clarification. He was just poking fun at the fact that you promptly posted something that made it seem like you, personally, were confused about the nature of the clarification.
(At least I think so. That would have been my intent, had I made that post.)
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Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco
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What had been subject to interpretation now has been clarified beyond a shadow of a doubt. And 4K is still a bargain for what you get.
As for the Intimidate checks, time to head back to the gym to add a few bonuses to my roll. You won't escape my grapple so easily next time, Sean, even with Aid Another rolls from John and Mark! :-)
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The reasoning that went into the rule when it was being developed doesn't matter at this point. The rule in print is clear and we have no intention to errata it on the message boards. So whatever led Sean to say anything prior to this thread is irrelevant (though I'd go with Dan taking 20 on his Intimidate check being the reason). The rule says what it says and that's how it should be interpreted in Pathfinder Society games.
Please, he's a cuddly teddy bear (or perhaps a dog) he couldn't hurt/intimidate a fly. Sean's bluff definitely overcame your sense motive. That's not too shameful, seeing as he's wearing the Mask of Stony Internet Demeanor.
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I'd like to have the price of this item re-evaluated, personally. 4250gp for a slotless item and a wayfinder that grants almost complete immunity by an entire school of magic (as long as its cast by an evil person, which it is most of the time...for PFS anyway) just seems like too much benefit for too little pay out.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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@Seth
I'd argue it's pseudo-slotless.
Aside, Talyn often carries his wayfinder empty, with his ioun torch floating about his head. If he needs the read magic he simply catches it and stuffs it in the wayfinder.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I'd like to have the price of this item re-evaluated, personally. 4250gp for a slotless item and a wayfinder that grants almost complete immunity by an entire school of magic (as long as its cast by an evil person, which it is most of the time...for PFS anyway) just seems like too much benefit for too little pay out.
Not an entire school of magic, just the subset of spells from that school which exercise direct mental control. Confusion and hold person and such are completely uninhibited.
I'd like to have the price of this item re-evaluated, personally. 4250gp for a slotless item and a wayfinder that grants almost complete immunity by an entire school of magic (as long as its cast by an evil person, which it is most of the time...for PFS anyway) just seems like too much benefit for too little pay out.
I think it the price for the ioun stone is fine. It's the resonance power that's the issue, really. It does give a huge boon against the most powerful spells in the game (even according to the Design A Spell section of UM the control spells this helps with are at the top of the hierarchy). But since the resonance powers were in SoS and those books aren't usually erratad, I'm not really holding my breath.
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@Seth
I'd argue it's pseudo-slotless.
only one wayfinder with an ioun stone
shuts down some/all the powers of the wayfinder
I can't remember if the ioun stone works normally in addition to the resonance effect. Aside, Talyn often carries his wayfinder empty, with his ioun torch floating about his head. If he needs the read magic he simply catches it and stuffs it in the wayfinder.
I thought about the slotless thing before posting it, but it still takes up no slot that any other item (other than another ioun stone takes) will fill. But I agree, and I think that point still stands. It, for example, to get this thing, the stone had to take your headband or head slot, the item would see a significant decrease in use.
I have seen a lot of YMMV on this too. Has anyone compiled a list of which spells (exactly) it effects? I've seen some judges give it protection from Confusion, and one that wasn't sure about Cause Fear both of which I don't think it effects.Not an entire school of magic, just the subset of spells from that school which exercise direct mental control. Confusion and hold person and such are completely uninhibited.I'd like to have the price of this item re-evaluated, personally. 4250gp for a slotless item and a wayfinder that grants almost complete immunity by an entire school of magic (as long as its cast by an evil person, which it is most of the time...for PFS anyway) just seems like too much benefit for too little pay out.
Protection from Evil: note the mention of '(including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects...'
Hold Person, Confusion, and just about every other Enchantment spell I have bothered to look up count as one of those two kinds of effects.
As for nosig's comment, I too would like a list of what this protects you from, though perhaps it might be a shorter list for what it doesnt protect the wearer from.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Not an entire school of magic, just the subset of spells from that school which exercise direct mental control. Confusion and hold person and such are completely uninhibited.I have seen a lot of YMMV on this too. Has anyone compiled a list of which spells (exactly) it effects? I've seen some judges give it protection from Confusion, and one that wasn't sure about Cause Fear both of which I don't think it effects.
It only works against effects where the caster gets to exercise control over the subject.
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Well, now it's clear as mud.Item says "as protection from evil."
FAQ says "Protection from evil only works against evil effects."
Therefore, the item only works against evil effects.Pretty clear, no?
(It only gets confusing if you refer to my private conversation with Dan from months ago, and that conversation isn't in the item description and isn't in the FAQ. Item description + FAQ = clear.)
Your just setting up more trouble with the rules lawyers by narrowing the interpretation of "as protection from evil".
This spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks made by lawful creatures. The target receives a new saving throw against control by lawful creatures and lawful summoned creatures cannot touch the target.
Makes no mention of prevention of new mental control, only refers players to protection from evil
While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.
Emphasis mine.
It won't take long before a PFS DM somewhere rules that since this second function is not explicitly modified, by RAW it works only against evil.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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At the very least, the spells mentioned in the FAQ are a "list" that PFS GM's aren't allowed to argue with. So command, charm person, and dominate person are definitely affected by protection from evil, and sleep and confusion are not. Not debatable.
Side note: if a GM told me my PfE didn't block his charm effect because "it doesn't let me exercise control", I'd happily accept, as he's then just promised in front of the whole table that he won't be trying to give my PC any orders. ;)
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I'd like to have the price of this item re-evaluated, personally. 4250gp for a slotless item and a wayfinder that grants almost complete immunity by an entire school of magic (as long as its cast by an evil person, which it is most of the time...for PFS anyway) just seems like too much benefit for too little pay out.
Actually, with this clarification, it's very reasonably priced. Continuous price magic items are SL * CL * 2000 * duration modifier * slotless. Protection from Evil is a 1st level spell, so 1 * 1 * 2000 * 2 * 2 = 8000. But you only get 1/3 of the spell, so that would actually be 2667 gold. But for the extra 1583 you also get a Wayfinder and freedom from food/drink, so that seems pretty fair.
Following those guidelines is a path that leads to madness, especially with powerful effects and continuous use :) The closest items to immunity to mental control (in the CRB) are the Periapt of Health (7.5k) and Periapt of Proof against Poison (27k). I personally find mental control a bit more worrisome than diseases and poisons.