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The Ranger of my current Kingmaker group hung around with a mercenary group in the River Kingdoms long enough to gain a bit of reputation (Level 1 Ranger still beats level 1 Commoners and Warriors) and eventually left off to hunt bandits on her own. Considering the average bandit is a Rogue with pathetic stats and equipment (by contrast, the Ranger had rolled some crazy good stats), the fact that she was known in that one area as a bane to all bandits wasn't too much glorifying on her part.I don't see why people have to make the grand and epic backstory from the get-go when starting at level 1.
Most of my characters have humble beginnings, if only to contrast with the achievements they can later brag about.
This.
An 'epic' backstory for me would be something like killing an orc in a raid...at 12...and deciding he just has to master weapons, as he has a natural talent...or maybe failing to learn magic, even when apprenticed to a wizard, only to have it happen spontaneously when his sister gets caught up in the river current. That's all pretty freakin' epic when you're surrounded by commoners, most level 1 or 2.
Those bandits needed to band...together. ;)
She probably picked them off one by one with her longbow for the most part.
Considering how high her Stealth was even when she was level 1, it was certainly possible.
Or, as I said, about a zero level character summoning and tricking celestials in the first place. The rules don't support it as being even remotely possible.
A great opportunity to check what the rules actually do allow.
A zero level character isn't a thing in Pathfinder, but a first level character with 10 Wisdom can use an 9th level spell scroll (like, say, gate) with greater chances of success than of mishap. Lower level scrolls, like the planar binding line, with much better odds of success than mishap. So if she ever gets her grubby hands on the guild's scroll stash, or her dead master's mysterious books, or whatever, the rules of the game take over and fully support the possibility of summoning Celestials.
DC 18 caster level check to cast. Apprentice rolls 1d20+1. 20% chance of success, 80% chance of failure and potential mishap.
On a failure, DC 5 Wisdom check vs mishap. Apprentice rolls 1d20+0. 20% chance of mishap, 80% chance of no mishap and try again.
80% (chance of failure) x 20% (chance of mishap on failure) = 16% chance of mishap.
So a 1st level apprentice with 10 Wisdom has a 20% chance of successful activation and a 14% chance of mishap on each attempt to activate a scroll of Gate.
Furthermore note that some mishaps result in the spell still being cast, just in an uncontrolled/unusual fashion.
As for the other, Bluff vs Sense Motive, or the Charisma checks if it's the planar binding line of spells. And a sorcerer, of course, is likely well cut out for either.
Not saying a GM couldn't raise his eyebrows at this backstory, just that there is no such impossibility of an apprentice summoning Celestials in the game rules. The above is just one of many methods for the backstory in question to pass a strict game-mechanics plausibility test.
We are getting into a lot of mechanics for something that doesn't involve mechanics.. when someone makes a deal with a devil (think movie not Pathfinder) do they have any sort of special abilities? most often no.. When you read religious stories of divine intervention, they can occur with humble farmers.
Just let the kid play their character, you have a whole world to play with GM.
It's an evil celestial blooded sorcerer for the game purposes, get ready to add a few celestial/devil references.
Those bandits needed to band...together. ;)The Ranger of my current Kingmaker group hung around with a mercenary group in the River Kingdoms long enough to gain a bit of reputation (Level 1 Ranger still beats level 1 Commoners and Warriors) and eventually left off to hunt bandits on her own. Considering the average bandit is a Rogue with pathetic stats and equipment (by contrast, the Ranger had rolled some crazy good stats), the fact that she was known in that one area as a bane to all bandits wasn't too much glorifying on her part.I don't see why people have to make the grand and epic backstory from the get-go when starting at level 1.
Most of my characters have humble beginnings, if only to contrast with the achievements they can later brag about.
This.
An 'epic' backstory for me would be something like killing an orc in a raid...at 12...and deciding he just has to master weapons, as he has a natural talent...or maybe failing to learn magic, even when apprenticed to a wizard, only to have it happen spontaneously when his sister gets caught up in the river current. That's all pretty freakin' epic when you're surrounded by commoners, most level 1 or 2.
They should form a warband.
Explain where you are coming from, why you want what you want, and approach the conversation from a direction that stems from the fun you get out of the game. For better or worse, some people just don't imagine that X might be that important or fun. Once you have an understanding of why X is important to the other party, work to achieve an agreeable compromise.
Good advice as ever. And, heh, that's a long list. Should I count myself lucky for getting away with just a blind eye so far? :p
But the character got the bloodline that made her a sorcerer by doing the summoning and tricking in the first place. As you say, there are no rules for below 1st level characters, but it's hard to see how you get the sorcerer abilities that let you use the scroll in the first place before you qualify for sorcerer.
What rule said the bloodline powers had to come first? Sorcerous power is notorious flavorwise for developing in fits and starts.
And most of the powerful celestials have good Charismas and better Sense Motives than even an optimized 1st level sorcerer.
And Detect Evil.
Game rules again. You need to be high level or possessed of a divine evil aura for Detect Evil to pick you up.
As for the skills, I never said it would happen with bad dice luck. Just that it's by no means game mechanically impossible.
As for the skills, I never said it would happen with bad dice luck. Just that it's by no means game mechanically impossible.
I agree that it is possible, but you are ignoring way to many variables.
Lets continue on with your example. For this to work, 4 things have to happen.
1. The sorcerer got their hands on an item that let them summon a celestial being capable of granting powers. We are talking about a level 9 divine scroll worth 3825 gold. Lets put that in real terms. If $5 buys you a basic meal at a fast food resturant. That roughly constitutes a poor meal which is 1SP. So 3825 gold is roughly about $200,000. What are the odds you are just going to "find" something like that lying around? What are the odds that whoever it belongs to are not going to come looking for it? I am being very generous when I give you a 1% chance of letting that happen with no strings attached.
2. They were able to use the scroll 20% chance, 16% chance of mishap.
At this point, lets assume they manage to summon a Shield Archon(weakest celestial being that might actually be capable or granting some measure of power)
3. They have to convince the celestial to give them powers(Diplomacy check) assuming that they start at indifferent, you are looking at a DC of 27(15 + charisma mod + 10 for Reveal secret knowledge). That is being generous, the DC is likely higher as this could be considered "Give aid that could result in punishment" which is a +15. A level 1 sorcerer with 20 charisma and 1 rank in diplomacy would have a +6 modifier and could not pass this check. If the sorcerer took a diplomacy trait(+1 make it class skill), then they would have a +10 diplomacy and need a 17 or better to pass this check. That is only a 20% chance of success in the absolutely best case. Note, this also assumes celestial has to be unaware of the would be sorcerer's nature. If the sorcerer had committed any unspeakable acts and the celestial had some method to know about them via divination spells, it would shift their initial attitude to hostile adding +10 to the DC of the check.
4. They have to deceive the celestial(Bluff vs Sense Motive). A sorcerer with 20 charisma 1 rank in bluff gets a +9 bluff. A shield archon has a +15 sense motive. So if the sorcerer rolls gets a 29(5% chance), then the archon needs a 14 to know something is up. with a 19, the archon needs a 13, and so on. If the sorcerer rolls a 7 or less, the archon automaticaly wins the contest. Overall the probability of the sorcerer winning this contest is 77.25%. So the sorcerer only has 22.75% chance of not giving away the game.
So if the sorcerer maxes charisma and puts a rank in bluff and diplomacy to start off, then they have a 0.011%(1 in 8791) chance of succeeding. That is if you give the players some very generous assumptions(Shield archon can give them the power, they have a 1% chance of finding an item that lets them summon with no strings attached). This is important, because there is no build and set of dice rolls that would let the sorcerer convince or trick a star archon, for example.
Now remember, a character's back story is not the absolute truth. It is just what happened from their point of view. It is far more likely that the Celestial Being appeared and let the Sorcerer think that they were being tricked. They gave the sorceror the power willingly to further some unknown agenda of their own.
I don't think straight out changing the bloodline would be ok. At creation, I would allow them to make the character, but I would let them know that obtaining the power in this manner may cause some complications later on. From there, I would have no problems with making the the powers occasionally backfire in a way that served the purpose of good and leave the sorcerer in a position where they can't always trust their own powers. I would also drop hints to the sorcerer that maybe they were the one who got tricked and let the story play out from there. Also, there might be a group of clerics running around who are moderately annoyed and on the lookout for whoever stole their scroll.
TLDR: It is possible for a level 1 sorcerer to trick a celestial being in exchange for power, but it requires some generous assumptions from the DM, and even then it is very improbable.
Explain where you are coming from, why you want what you want, and approach the conversation from a direction that stems from the fun you get out of the game. For better or worse, some people just don't imagine that X might be that important or fun. Once you have an understanding of why X is important to the other party, work to achieve an agreeable compromise.Good advice as ever. And, heh, that's a long list. Should I count myself lucky for getting away with just a blind eye so far? :p
I would not attach too much comfort to 'so far'. As you know from playing in the game from which that list was generated, I'm an overbearing and whimsical tyrant.
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Changed a rogue/shadowdancer to a shadow bloodline sorcerer.
Forced a barbarian level on a fighter.
Forced a sorcerer level on a rogue/wizard.Made a character a father.
Made a character a bereaved father.Turned a character into kraken food.
Turned a character into a mummy.
Turned three characters into gods.
Turned a character into a worm that walks.
Turned a character into a weretiger.
Forced afore mentioned character into a hybrid appearance.
Turned a character's skin to glowing and eyes to black.
Wow. As said you must have great communication skills. The things I listed would all be things I'd either table flip and never return to the group or retire the character and go with something new.
If the father choices were due to some in story action (too much wenching) then that makes sense. But an out of the blue "you have a kid you didn't know about" I'd walk.
The last set - if all of those were things happening during a game that were able to dodge (like a weretiger but not have the approriate magics, or a save failed for a mummy) that makes sense but to just do so... I'd walk.
The GM controls the world, the NPCs and such. The character is mine. I was playing a superhero supermage (Champions) that had part of her backstory was that she was born to be a god (a good god of magic - superhero god though - like Thor), but had a bad guy see she would grow up and screw up his plan, so he tried to kill her, and she came out twins.
The GM ended up revealing in a storyline that her parent was actually the great evil of the universe and I was born/made specifially to be his avenue to destroy the universe. It made the entire character as I envisioned her and played her irrelevant to what I wanted to play the character for, so I dropped her.
In another game (superheros again) who's backstory for her Ice powers was that she was grabbed by an ice demon to be his bride. She broke free and got home (with help) before the consummation of the event. The GM tells her later she was pregnant. I would have walked off that too.
I build my character to be exactly what I want to play - in mood, approach and such. A GM has no right to change that on me. Results to actions in a mechanical sense yeah. But the other way, before the game starts the GM can tell me what classes, feats, spells and such are allowed or disallowed. I build my character to suit his world.
I build my character to be exactly what I want to play - in mood, approach and such. A GM has no right to change that on me. Results to actions in a mechanical sense yeah. But the other way, before the game starts the GM can tell me what classes, feats, spells and such are allowed or disallowed. I build my character to suit his world.
That's a fantastic way of saying things. I usually talk if I'm doing something weird or a bit off. (Racial Heritage: Assimar for my Cheliaxian Wizard for instance.) No is no however. I like doing it with my GM if I can so there is no conflict before the game gets moving, and hopefully this gives him something to work with too.
The only game I've really had to walk away from because the GM took it too far was the one where a GM said he fully intended to kill my characters daughter. Post creation and after being introduced to the game, despite me saying no. He sorta' just laughed and said it was a great idea so I didn't get any say so.
The real issue is that the GM allowed the backstory and then later decided to ruin the character. Once the backstory is accepted the character is a PC, not an NPC. The GM can only unilaterally alter PCs through the rules framework (eg. by killing them with HP damage).
Yep.
I build my character to be exactly what I want to play - in mood, approach and such. A GM has no right to change that on me. Results to actions in a mechanical sense yeah. But the other way, before the game starts the GM can tell me what classes, feats, spells and such are allowed or disallowed. I build my character to suit his world.
Another excellent summation of a GM overstepping the shared narrative idea.
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In my view, and by the consensus of my playgroup, the GM has absolute authority...
...until play actually starts. Then the GM (usually me) has no control over what unfolds.
Your question doesn't apply in this instance rending any answer I gave moot.
Betraying powerful celestial beings to their deaths has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a character's ability or inability to be able to take them on in one-on-one combat. Cersy Lanister from Game of Thrones probably could not hope to kill the lowliest of her enemies in combat. Yet she is responsible for the deaths of THOUSANDS of her enemies. Why? Because she is a clever little snake who finds betrayal and deception easy.
Even a non-combatant character with no stats could plausibly lure powerful celestial beings into an ambush against powerful fiends whom she made a deal with. She may need powerful allies or resources to pull it off, but if said allies/reousrces were killed/consumed in the endeavor, who really cares? In the end, you're left with an evil celestial-bloodline sorcerer with a great back story and lots of potential for future plot hooks.
I just don't see why so many GMs would be willing to trash such a great resource for their own egos.
"No, your low level character cannot possibly have had any dealings with powerful creatures because that would imply she is somehow more capable than MY powerful creatures."
To GMs like that I say "get over yourself!"
RD, to be honest, with the character you described, I don't really think it is the GM who needs to get over himself.
Chopped off a mage's pinky.
Forced a sorcerer level on a rogue/wizard.
*Last two points also include a clause that disallows them from retraining those levels.
Turned a character into kraken food.
Turned three characters into gods.
Turned a character's skin to glowing and eyes to black.
*Last two points were unable to be hidden via magic.
Informed players that certain attacks might permanently scar their characters beyond magic's ability to heal.
These were all me. In the case of multiple instances I was one of those multiple.
Don't forget that in the case of the pinky loss it was unable to be restored via magic.
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I'd never tamper with the backgrounds of my players, and I'd never let a DM tamper with the background of my character.
Asking me to change something and discussing it with me is okay. Demanding a change or deciding for me is usually unacceptable.
Heh. I agree with you, Radiant Sophia. Feels like that all the time.
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If I was looking at the list without context, I'd definitely peg the forced levels, the change to shadow sorcerer, the DMPC or the docked XP/gold as the big offenses, but they've been fairly tame. Some even welcomed.
Forced levels (unless you were giving them in addition to what they would normally get by choice) and completely changing someone's character so it's 100% mechanically different than what they built is a huge FU to a player. That's the kind of thing that would make me seriously consider going, "You play him now as he's obviously your character. Rerolling."
As you said, there is no context here. Would you mind elaborating?
It is possible for a level 1 sorcerer to trick a celestial being in exchange for power, but it requires some generous assumptions from the DM, and even then it is very improbable.And even that ignores that he's tricking the celestial being to get the very inherent magic that lets him be a sorcerer in the first place.
Yes, although in theory, you could make a DC 20 UMD check to emulate the class features of a sorcerer. Every point you beat the DC by adds to your effective sorcerer level for actually using the scroll.
Activating the scroll outright is DC 37 or more, so that is not going to happen, but you can emulate having the spellcasting of a sorcerer at a DC of 20.
So if you have a charisma of 20 and a 1 rank in UMD, you get a +9 UMD. So on an 11, you are a level 0 cleric, and you need an 18 or better to make the caster level check(15% chance). For every point you get about an 11 on the UMD check, the caster level check comes down by 5%.
UMD -> CL check
11 -> 18
12 -> 17
13 -> 16
...
20 -> 9
When you roll all of those probabilities together, you get an 18.75% chance that you UMD to emulate a sorcerer then successfully pass the CL check. That is close enough to the 20% that I used earlier to be a wash.
If I was looking at the list without context, I'd definitely peg the forced levels, the change to shadow sorcerer, the DMPC or the docked XP/gold as the big offenses, but they've been fairly tame. Some even welcomed.Forced levels (unless you were giving them in addition to what they would normally get by choice) and completely changing someone's character so it's 100% mechanically different than what they built is a huge FU to a player. That's the kind of thing that would make me seriously consider going, "You play him now as he's obviously your character. Rerolling."
As you said, there is no context here. Would you mind elaborating?
Sure, but it's a long story. A couple of the details as far as when things happened might be off a little, but the overall story goes something like this.
Two or three years ago, way back at level 11 (I believe) the party overcame a powerful summoner who had with him a Deck of Many things. Two party members (out of four) decided to draw cards from it. The first drew the Star I think, but the second (the Fighter now Fighter/Barbarian) drew the Void. At that point I (the Rogue1/Wizard) decided to draw a card as well, hoping to get something that could be used to save him (wishes or some such). I also drew the Void. It's worth nothing that both characters who drew the Void had more than a year of playtime invested in them.
At this point the Party was in the middle of the Tides of Dread adventure of the Savage Tide. Breaking off to conduct a rescue was unfeasible. The bodies of the Voided characters were returned to Farshore where they were left under guard. A couple of Celestial beings that had previously interacted with the Wizard and the Fighter both put on an appearance to relate a method as to how the two might be saved, but for the most part the party moved on. One of the two players had to take a hiatus from the game and the other introduced a new character.
Fast forward about six months. The party wrapped up Tides of Dread and began questing for the Pools of Truth and Beauty, said to be capable of bringing their friends back from the Void. Around the same time a PBP room started that introduced the experiences of the two characters who had been Voided. Because of their proximity they had both been sent to the same place - within a sub-realm of Hell. They were physically linked together in this form - joined at the hand. They suffered torture, with one character having his eye plucked out, and eventually caught the attention of a powerful lord of the realm who became infatuated with one of the characters (the wizard) and ripped the forearm off of the other to separate the two.
Eventually the wizard's Void form was killed by the lord in an attempt to gain knowledge of her abilities. The fighter erupted into a rage, but was unable to do anyhing because of the nature of the Void card. It was subsequently revealed that due to her connection with the fighter neither could truly die while the other lived. The fighter was able to save the wizard from her 'void death' with the help of another prisoner (a demigod) and the two learned of their forthcoming rescue at the hands of the party.
The party breached the lower levels of Opar, reached the Pools of Truth and Beauty, and returned the two to life from the Void. When they came back, to bring them up to the same level as the party, they gained a level of sorcerer and barbarian respectively, representing experiences in the Void. They also gained a couple abilities each that served to make these levels less of a mechanical burden.
Full character sheets can be found here. Katrina is the wizard, while Heinrick is the fighter.
The full account of the Void can be found here.
Finally, the full account of the rescue begins here.
Well I think the obvious answer is that it completely depends on group dynamics and expectations.
I am currently in three games, two as a play and one as a GM.
In one of the games I am in I trust my GM completely and if he chooses to do something to my character I just that it will enhance the game and make it more interesting and fun.
In the other game I do NOT trust the GM with any power over my character and if he did it to anyone in game I think it would cause a small argument.
In the game I run myself I don't believe in messing with my players characters so I don't do it.
And that's why you never draw from a Deck of Many Things ;p
But yeah the story behind it (plus those characters getting some extras to make lessen the mechanical hit) makes it sound like something I as a player wouldn't get too upset over.
Two or three years ago, way back at level 11 (I believe) the party overcame a powerful summoner who had with him a Deck of Many things. Two party members (out of four) decided to draw cards from it. The first drew the Star I think, but the second (the Fighter now Fighter/Barbarian) drew the Void. At that point I (the Rogue1/Wizard) decided to draw a card as well, hoping to get something that could be used to save him (wishes or some such). I also drew the Void.
Minor correction. Heinrick drew the Void. I/Einar drew hoping for a card that would facilitate a rescue, and got the Sun. Then Kat drew, hoping the same, and got a second Void. And then Buxtu buried the accursed thing in a very deep hole, from which I fully expect it has already emerged in order to bedevil us again in the future.
I would not attach too much comfort to 'so far'. As you know from playing in the game from which that list was generated, I'm an overbearing and whimsical tyrant.Explain where you are coming from, why you want what you want, and approach the conversation from a direction that stems from the fun you get out of the game. For better or worse, some people just don't imagine that X might be that important or fun. Once you have an understanding of why X is important to the other party, work to achieve an agreeable compromise.Good advice as ever. And, heh, that's a long list. Should I count myself lucky for getting away with just a blind eye so far? :p
You may take my class levels, body parts, and/or humanity, but you'll never take... MY FREEDOM!
That's already actually happened to a player in the game...
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One time I was turned into an intelligent undead. All part of the plan.
You suck.
That's already actually happened to a player in the game...
I think this or something similar has happened at least three times. There was Art, Tycho, and Tycho again. Though the second Tycho was more getting eaten by malevolent antediluvian maggot-puppeteers from the inside out than strictly undeath, I guess, it had similar end results.
In the other game I do NOT trust the GM with any power over my character and if he did it to anyone in game I think it would cause a small argument.
I can't help but ask, in light of the other game situation you described in which you do trust the GM, why do you play with a GM you don't trust?
All totally doable at level 1, if the GM agrees to it, which the hypothetical GM did, and which I would.
or handwave the backstory, people are getting hung up on a lot of stuff here :)
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On character backgrounds:
1) Just because a player has not given the GM a character background does not mean that they do not have plans and ideas about it, or even more generally a feel for the kind of character they are.
2) Any details that do get provided should be checked by the GM first, and if approved should not me tampered with.
3) Any details not provided should be asked about before the GM decides to run with them. If you say nothing about your family, then the GM should ask you at some point, "what did your father and mother do, do you have any siblings". This type of question is good for getting players involved anyway. If they say, "I never knew my father, but my mother was a field worker, and refused to answer questions about my father", I would ask if they the player have any opinion about the identity of the father. If they want him to be someone specific, there is a great plot hook you can work in. If they do not care, then the GM can create whatever they want.
On to the specific post.
Since the GM okayed the story, magically changing it is a low blow. Since the character does not get any extra power, there should not be a specific down-side to having the power. The fluff retribution (if the GM decides to roll with it) should be CR and plot appropriate. No team of 10 angels showing up to kill a level one character. That kind of back-story can provide a ton of in game elements without any sort of petty, one-sided decision-making.
The fluff says the gods are watching. The fluff says the alignment (and fate) is up to the player. The rules give no guidance on how the god's watching will effect the game.
As for the item. Forcing the player to use it is another low blow. Giving them the option, and a chance to identify it, and then ways of removing it after is fine.
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I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but sometimes things get added to a PCs backstory whether they like it or not due to their actions in game or even actions beyond their control. I've had PCs framed for murdering the King's daughter and they were hunted, which became a part of their background. You don't need permission to do these types of things.
Now as a side note about celestials. While they may not be actual gods, some of them actually exceed the power of a god so they can most certaintly be watching. What I would have done is sent a group of celestials to either kill you and or capture you (aka make another character if you don't get away). If you did survive or escape then plan on looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but sometimes things get added to a PCs backstory whether they like it or not due to their actions in game or even actions beyond their control. I've had PCs framed for murdering the King's daughter and they were hunted, which became a part of their background. You don't need permission to do these types of things.
If it happens after the game starts it's not part of their backstory any more, so the point is moot.
What I would have done is sent a group of celestials to either kill you and or capture you (aka make another character if you don't get away). If you did survive or escape then plan on looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life.
To what purpose?
What kind of fun does that provide for anyone involved except schadenfreude on the GMs part?
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I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but sometimes things get added to a PCs backstory whether they like it or not due to their actions in game or even actions beyond their control. I've had PCs framed for murdering the King's daughter and they were hunted, which became a part of their background. You don't need permission to do these types of things.If it happens after the game starts it's not part of their backstory any more, so the point is moot.
What I would have done is sent a group of celestials to either kill you and or capture you (aka make another character if you don't get away). If you did survive or escape then plan on looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life.To what purpose?
What kind of fun does that provide for anyone involved except schadenfreude on the GMs part?
And what fun is it to gain all the benefits but ignore the consequences for your actions. Sorry but the fluff isn't there just to fill space in a book. You go the darkside and you will have trouble.
If you don't like it then you play a different concept.
Please don't use the "fun card" b#@~$*#$ argument. It gets old to be honest. "Oh look at me, I can hide behind the fun card so I can come up with any concept I want and not have to incur any consequences".
So the game isn't about fun, Shallowsoul?
Last I checked, that is the main goal of the game.
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And what fun is it to gain all the benefits
You mean the benefits that any Sorcerer can gain by just saying "I am a level 1 Sorcerer with the Celestial Bloodline" with no backstory added?
but ignore the consequences for your actions.
I'm sorry you hate people thinking outside of the box when coming up with stories.
Thankfully, the majority of people who play this game do not.
Sorry but the fluff isn't there just to fill space in a book.
Actually, it is. You can use all or none of it and still play the game just fine.
Ask the myriad number of people who run Pathfinder in a completely different setting, with completely different fluff.
You go the darkside and you will have trouble.
As long as you're fair about it and have the Fiends come after the characters who are too goody goody.
Nip all those pesky Paladins in the bud for their overly good actions by sending a Pit Fiend at them at level 3.
If you don't like it then you play a different concept.
:rolleyes:
Please don't use the "fun card" b$!+!%!! argument. It gets old to be honest. "Oh look at me, I can hide behind the fun card so I can come up with any concept I want and not have to incur any consequences".
And you still haven't answered the question of why there should be consequences for someone making up something interesting to go with their character. And not just any consequences, consequences of the passive-aggressive "I'll let you play this concept but f%&& you lol you're dead" variety.
So the game isn't about fun, Shallowsoul?
Last I checked, that is the main goal of the game.
No no, the game isn't about fun. Not to him anyway.
Mostly because Shallowsoul probably can't even play it any more. According to his apparent GMing style and the way he (according to his posts anyway) changes player groups about as often as he changes clothing, he's probably driven off everyone within a 50 mile radius of where he lives.
Behold the Might of Standard Answer 35b;
The GM can do what he wants - it's his game, and his rules. But unless he keeps players tied up in his basement for role-playing purposes of all kinds then he can't afford to exercise that total power, because a player can shrug, pack up there stuff and walk out (or kick you out if you're playing at there place) and without players, there is no game.
The only control a character has in a game is there character. The GM controls everything else. I'd be very hesitant to use a character's back story, one that I've approved of, to make changes to a character. Not only because it'll upset the player, but everyone else is going to notice and be more reluctant to do anything other than Generic Fighter 5c - The Two Hand Weapon Guy because if they mention he's the last scion of a noble house wiped out when his grandfather became a lich you might have said lich warp in to murderise him.