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On the original topic, I just wish there were more scantily clad men. Most women put up with scantily clad women -- unless they are convinced there's some sort of political message to it. But add scantily clad men and suddenly all this male homophobia pops up, men act like it's physically repulsive to see an attractive specimen of their own sex.The list of muscle-bound handsome men that show it off in media is at least as long as the women. From Conan and John Carter to Superman (skin-tight costume) to WWE Wrestling to shirtless action movie heroes and too many other things to list, it's all over the place. If this "male homophobia" is as rampant as you say, then why do so many men watch WWE, for example, where muscle-bound guys in little shorts grapple each other?Nope, it's a very real thing and was illustrated perfectly on these very boards back when Paizo featured an idealized mostly naked dude on a Dragon issue for a Greek gods article. Some guys complained that they didn't want to be seen picking it up because they'd be "mistaken for gay".
Them double standards.
Edit-This one. Not actually Greek god specific
It's a double standard, but a real one.
Put a guy in a pin-up shot on the cover of anything and it will be assumed that any guy who's reading it will be doing so to check out the dudes.
Ditto with any woman reading it.
Put a pin-up girl on the cover of anything and it's assumed that the guys who are reading it are checking out the girls, whereas women reading it will be assumed to just be reading it anyway, since women are culturally allowed and even encouraged to check out the competition, whereas if a man's eyes linger on another man, he's assumed to be sexually interested.
Tiresome, certainly, but nonetheless real.
The purpose of cover art is threefold. The first is to advertise to the customer whatever it is he or she might want to buy. The second is to please the purchaser by reflecting his/her interests. The third is for the purchaser to display to the world to advertise his/her interests to attract like-minded individuals.
If you've got a cover you want to be read as "I'm looking to hook up with other D&D players" and the iconography instead is read as "I'm looking to hook up with men," you've got a problem with the third item.
It's like the time I once wore a tie-dyed T-shirt to the wrong part of town and had three different people come up to me trying to buy acid, the third actually explaining that wearing orange tie-dye on Tuesday on this particular street meant I was supposed to be the drug dealer.
In a perfect world I should be able to wear tie-dye wherever I please with no other meaning than "I like tie-dye," but the world not being perfect it can be misread. Ditto with holding a magazine with a cover with some pin-up guy on it.
I think there's a big change coming from indie games and the increasing ease of getting a market for them (Steam, the various console app stores, iPhone/Android, etc).
Yep, and the more we jump on Kickstarter and get involved with making the games we want, the better!
'Big Industry' just wants to pedal boring old tried and true garbage; it's why Big Brother gets airplay.
Another thought on unattractive female protagonists, how many female gamers play dwarves and half-orcs?
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Quite a few of the girls I have played with did, including most recently a Half Orc Barbarian in some kind of post ironic 70's sword and sandal cheese-movie style.
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I can't speak for others... but I don't usually play either of those two races because they aren't interesting to me. I do have a (male) dwarf PC in a PbP game at the moment, but that's very rare. I tend to prefer humans and half-elves. I do like to play tieflings though. Including ugly and monstrous ones. Half-demon is just cooler than half-orc.
I don't often play unattractive characters though. Perhaps that's a flaw on my behalf. My own fantasies, I guess. :)
Another thought on unattractive female protagonists, how many female gamers play dwarves and half-orcs?
Dwarves! Yes!
(Half-orcs aren't allowed in my roommates game.)
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Another thought on unattractive female protagonists, how many female gamers play dwarves and half-orcs?
unattractive female protagonists... dwarves and half-orcs?
Also, besides a female Paizo employee filling in for the half-orc Iconic's IC posts on the boards, dwarves and orcs have gotten their share of play from female gamers in WoW. Srsly, despite what some guys might claim, not every female WoW player is playing humans and elves exclusively.
I know one DA artist that fell in love with playing female dwarves because of Dragon Age, and really hates on the guys that keep pushing the "bearded female dwarf" meme.
Omm nom Imrijka /swoon.
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I played Torchlight, there is a female option there. I played Borderlands, there's a female option there.
A female option, amongst the multiple options for males. And the female options are all fanservicey, while the males have a range, some of which fall outside conventional fanserviciness(like Salvatore).
Women don't get nearly as much range as men as far as options go in videogames.
Mass Effect, Femshep can't get scar options as horrific as Maleshep. Believe me, I tried. If my Shep survived a Thresher Maw massacre, I damn well want her to look like it.
Damn near every Japanese game with a character creator(you very rarely have any options to make a female character not look fanservicey. Tough, rugged options for female characters are extremely rare.
I'd love to see a videogame that had the guts to make a "Vasquez" the central protagonist, but unlike men, female heroes in games don't get to be rugged and weathered. Look at Gears of War, where every dude is a ridiculous callouse of a human being because of the grim dark grimdark future they live in. Then look at when they finally introduced a female player character.
Let's see a videogame company give us a Helena Pierce in the lead role one day.
And have her get the guy in the end. (or girl, if preferred)
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I find it fascinating that most teenagers regard manliness as comprising: stubborn-ness, self-confidence, physical strength and anti-intellectualism.Most adults too. that's the only reason I can find that Big Ban Theory is so popular as opposed to Community, which isn't nearly as anti-intellectual.
/sigh
I guess my cultural sensibilities are too far off the the beaten path. I have a very difficult time trying to imagine the world from that point of view.
But then, I have very little in common socially with the vast majority of people outside gaming stores.
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Also:
There is nothing with fanservice. Fanservice is great.
But it becomes problematic when it's the only game in town or when it outweighs everything else for when it comes to representing a group of people.
We need balance. And more variety.
Variety is hot.
On a serious note: The link at the end of Deathquaker's post in the "sister" thread to this one is well worth serious consideration.
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9 months of discomfort, beign at least three of them particularly disabling and the most excruciating pain conceivable. Men have their own problems, society is merciless with males, but do not try to mitigate women's problems.
I sort'a wanted to leave this post alone, but I can't. I'm quite certain that giving birth to a child is painful, and prolonged, agony (almost always less than 24 hours, though). I'm not trying to make light of that.
But, at the same time, calling it "the most excruciating pain conceivable" is a very strong exaggeration. If you, or anyone else here, considers it so, then I believe your imagination is very, very limited (at least in regards to things that cause pain).
An example or two:
Being burned over most of your body (say 60+%, third degree burns) and surviving the experience, and living through the long months of agony as you go through all the skin grafts and recovery process.
Or certain types of cancer... that linger on and on, and for which we really don't have adequate pain control for those suffering through the illness.
Certain ancient methods of torture and execution (yes, crucifixion belongs here, as one variety that is horrifyingly painful).
I could go on quite a while longer... and while child-birth is painful and potentially life-threatening, I doubt any woman would willingly go through with it if it were as bad as the worst possible varieties of pain conceivable-- and I wouldn't disagree with that choice, either.
(I'm quite thankful, btw, that no such injuries have ever befallen me personally-- I've seen the evidence left behind from such things and still have nightmares about it)
An example or two:
Being burned over most of your body (say 60+%, third degree burns) and surviving the experience, and living through the long months of agony as you go through all the skin grafts and recovery process.
Or certain types of cancer... that linger on and on, and for which we really don't have adequate pain control for those suffering through the illness.
Certain ancient methods of torture and execution (yes, crucifixion belongs here, as one variety that is horrifyingly painful).
Not to get morbid, but, specifically, certain bone cancers are horribly painful, and no medication provides pain control for these.
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A very interesting rebuttal to Damsels in Distress that points out many things Anita left out
A synopsis of that rebuttal:
1) yes, I've done this bad thing to you many, many times... but I also DIDN'T do it twice
2) that's just the way they are, we can't expect them to behave better than that
Meanwhile, in other news, people stop crying about the problem and fix it.
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That article construes Japan as both some sort of holier-than-thou entity that deserves to be immune to criticism (entirely BECAUSE it has stupidly backwater views about women?) and a bizarre scapegoat for all the modern-day problems because "they started it"...
Shifty, I like the Girl Link hack too :)
Shifty, I like the Girl Link hack too :)
That's a good one!
Also shows it isn't really hard to simply amend the 'problem' and play the game YOU want.
It's almost as though people think the consumers have no power but to digest the material the game industry produces, whereas the reverse is true and moments after a game comes out thera are a bajillion mods and changes available.
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I don't know, to me that article just reads like an attempt to shut down discussion rather than provide an actual rebuttal. They aren't addressing any points she made, rather trying to make the issue about japanese games. Rather than getting into too much detail I'm going to just list a few questions and concerns I have with the article.
- The origin of the games is interesting, but not nearly as much as the writer seems to indicate. These aren't some obscure Japanese games here, Mario and Zelda are two of the most famous video game characters (if not the two most famous) from the 80's. For the most part she's addressing the games that many US children of the 80's grew up playing.
- It's a discussion on women in video games. It's great if the characters get more depth in cartoons and the like, but only tangentially relevant to video game tropes.
- Does the author actually contend that these 'damsel in distress' themes aren't common in american made games from the same period?
- The author even notes that Nintendo of America heavily censored games out of Japan in those days. Isn't that in itself an argument that they felt the damsels in distress status of Peach and Zelda was fine since that wasn't addressed?
The author is correct that this is a complex sort of topic which is multi-faceted. Various factors come into play beyond the ones directly talked about in the video.
But the suggestion appears to be that you can't discuss one aspect of it (the portrayal of women chiefly from arguably the most iconic video game company of all), without touching on everything else that may be a factor in the same sentence. Beyond a disagreement over Sonic's cast the author hasn't tried to counter actual points that were made. Merely suggested they aren't important because a whole bunch of other points weren't argued at the same time.
The point is that the games were made to reflect Japanese cultural values, which are not the same as American cultural values. Every chance they had, the American companies altered things to improve the roles of women. Every product created by and specifically for the American market (the non-game stuff that was mentioned) did A LOT to bolster the role of women. The games imported from Japan could only be changed so much, though... covering panty shots, or erasing statues. They couldn't rewrite the entire game usually, and the 1 and only time they COULD, they included a female character in one of the best roles.
Many other countries complain about how America exports its values and beliefs through the media it creates, and that's true. But America also imports cultural products, and those products contain the cultural values of their home country, the market they were intended for. A viewer needs to be able to understand that, and if they have a big enough disagreement with that culture, just don't consume their cultural exports. Demanding they change their products and culture to suit our own values is called cultural imperialism.
Now, I think there needs to be limits to that sensitivity. The Taliban chopping off womens' heads for going to school, for example. I don't care what culture it's from, that's barbaric. And maybe some people will feel the same about the roles of women in Japanese culture. It's worth noting, though, that the Japanese women I talked to when I lived there were not eager to take on mens' roles in business and such, and in fact they typically pitied them. They did want more respect and several other things having to do more with agism but targeted at women, but Japanese men work very long hours at their jobs and put up with a lot of bossing around, and the women I knew really didn't want to suffer like that. I think the best way to put it is they wanted women's roles to be more respected, but they did NOT want to take on men's roles if that was the price of the respect. It was quite different from western women who often talk about breaking into traditionally male jobs, breaking the glass ceiling, etc.
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Japan isn't immune to criticism because it's very different culturally speaking to the west (which is NOT just America).
EVEN IF we assume that America isn't at fault whatsoever because it comes from Japaaaan and it's all THEIR fault, this doesn't change the fact that:
a) Japanese games are incredibly popular despite this fact,
b) Japanese games and studios and developers are INCREDIBLY influential (try and find a modern game dev who hasn't been influenced by Miyamoto?), and
c) EVEN IF it has nothing to do with the west, we should STILL put pressure on Japan to not do this kind of thing because it ain't cool.
I consider myself reasonably familiar with Japanese culture - I speak the language and have studied it for a number of years. I've not had the opportunity to live there, but I know many people who have or do so. I also know a lot of Japanese people. The source of Japanese sexism is very different (due to the wildly different histories, cultural norms, religions, etc) but it is sexism nonetheless, and we should still argue against it, even if it's not exactly the same as Western experiences. It's not as if every Japanese person agrees with their sexist attitudes either - things are changing in Japan quite a lot.
And yes - our western voices influence Japanese development quite a lot. Not only game studios but anime studios and music labels are starting to pay attention to the west as of late.
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Japan isn't immune to criticism because it's very different culturally speaking to the west (which is NOT just America).
EVEN IF we assume that America isn't at fault whatsoever because it comes from Japaaaan and it's all THEIR fault, this doesn't change the fact that:
a) Japanese games are incredibly popular despite this fact,
b) Japanese games and studios and developers are INCREDIBLY influential (try and find a modern game dev who hasn't been influenced by Miyamoto?), and
c) EVEN IF it has nothing to do with the west, we should STILL put pressure on Japan to not do this kind of thing because it ain't cool.I consider myself reasonably familiar with Japanese culture - I speak the language and have studied it for a number of years. I've not had the opportunity to live there, but I know many people who have or do so. I also know a lot of Japanese people. The source of Japanese sexism is very different (due to the wildly different histories, cultural norms, religions, etc) but it is sexism nonetheless, and we should still argue against it, even if it's not exactly the same as Western experiences. It's not as if every Japanese person agrees with their sexist attitudes either - things are changing in Japan quite a lot.
And yes - our western voices influence Japanese development quite a lot. Not only game studios but anime studios and music labels are starting to pay attention to the west as of late.
The impression Anita gave was "American games were terribly sexist because...", and then listed nothing but Japanese games, and ignored the efforts of American companies to change the games to suit American audiences as much as they could.
It's like talking about how terribly sexist American comics and animation are, and then showing nothing but manga and anime. Even if they have been translated into English and are for sale in the US, it doesn't mean they represent American cultural values or should be used as an example of "sexist American media".
Off topic, but if you want to live and work in Japan someday, I'd recommend trying out for the JET Program (Japanese Exchange and Teaching). That's how I was able to live there, you team-teach English with Japanese teachers in the public schools. It's sponsored by the Japanese govt itself, and is very well organized.
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I didn't get the impression that Sarkeesian was talking about American games only, idk if I missed something there.
Also yeah, I've long considered doing JET or going through one of the private ALT companies, but there's never been a good opportunity to do so. I was actually going to go on university exchange to Japan but it worked out better for my degree (and for personal reasons too) to go elsewhere. And my last visit to Japan was cancelled by the tsunami... :(
The impression Anita gave was "American games were terribly sexist because...", and then listed nothing but Japanese games, and ignored the efforts of American companies to change the games to suit American audiences as much as they could.
It's like talking about how terribly sexist American comics and animation are, and then showing nothing but manga and anime. Even if they have been translated into English and are for sale in the US, it doesn't mean they represent American cultural values or should be used as an example of "sexist American media"....
Toyotas are some of the most popular cars in America; many of them are even manufactured here. Toyota is a Japanese company, but they are built for Americans; they are representative of what types of vehicle Americans drive.
Video games, anime -- it's the same thing. Everything you see these days is made with Americans in mind. ESPECIALLY if you look at it and think it's sooooo Japanese, because that's what Americans want.
One thing that I find less than ideal in these discussions is the reference to the 'captured princess' trope as seen in the Mario and Zelda franchises. Yes, of course those games have that going on, largely due to them keeping the recurring theme they established when these series originated over twenty years ago. They've also both seen some changes to the issue, with Zelda playing a powerful role in defeating the baddies in many a game at this point, and even Peach gets a few heroic highlights(Super Mario RPG being the first example that comes to mind).
I suppose what I object to is the villainization of these classic games. The idea of the damsel in distress is an old one, and in itself, I don't see it as a problem. The issue I see is more that there are too few examples of the other way around; i.e., the girl rescuing the boy. It's not that the one way exists that's a problem, it's the lack of other options. While I do think that the 'damsels-in-distress' are being portrayed less often as powerless individuals, and more often as characters out of their depth, we certainly haven't seen much of guys taking on that role while the girl is the one with the power. The first example that I can come up with is the Parasite Eve series, and there the main character isn't really looking to rescue her boyfriend so much as the whole world, which isn't really showcasing the same gender issue.
Something that people keep missing (or ignoring so they can set up strawmen) is that this is the only part 1 of a series, and that Anita out right states she will be dealing with more recent games in part 2. If part one has a Japanese emphasis, it's because in the 80's and 90's Nintendo dominated the video game market.
Personally, I suspect Japanese culture plays only a minor role in how female characters in games are portrayed. Depiction of female characters is often just as bad in comic books made in the US., and Japan does consider US markets when making a game.
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Just a few opportunities to see strong, competent females in fantasy style art. (Less so with video games, but there's at least one I'll mention).
Games: Metroid (all save Other M)
Books: Pretty much anything by L.E. Modessitt, Jr. Specifically Arms Commander, Fall of Angels, Scion of Cyador, Magi'i of Cyador.
Most of the stories by David & Leigh Eddings
Comics: Hack/Slash, Watchmen
The impression Anita gave was "American games were terribly sexist because...", and then listed nothing but Japanese games, and ignored the efforts of American companies to change the games to suit American audiences as much as they could.
It's like talking about how terribly sexist American comics and animation are, and then showing nothing but manga and anime. Even if they have been translated into English and are for sale in the US, it doesn't mean they represent American cultural values or should be used as an example of "sexist American media"....
Toyotas are some of the most popular cars in America; many of them are even manufactured here. Toyota is a Japanese company, but they are built for Americans; they are representative of what types of vehicle Americans drive.
Video games, anime -- it's the same thing. Everything you see these days is made with Americans in mind. ESPECIALLY if you look at it and think it's sooooo Japanese, because that's what Americans want.
so they design them to be rubbish in corners?
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so they design them to be rubbish in corners?The impression Anita gave was "American games were terribly sexist because...", and then listed nothing but Japanese games, and ignored the efforts of American companies to change the games to suit American audiences as much as they could.
It's like talking about how terribly sexist American comics and animation are, and then showing nothing but manga and anime. Even if they have been translated into English and are for sale in the US, it doesn't mean they represent American cultural values or should be used as an example of "sexist American media"....
Toyotas are some of the most popular cars in America; many of them are even manufactured here. Toyota is a Japanese company, but they are built for Americans; they are representative of what types of vehicle Americans drive.
Video games, anime -- it's the same thing. Everything you see these days is made with Americans in mind. ESPECIALLY if you look at it and think it's sooooo Japanese, because that's what Americans want.
Dammit I can't not hear his voice reading this.
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The impression Anita gave was "American games were terribly sexist because...", and then listed nothing but Japanese games, and ignored the efforts of American companies to change the games to suit American audiences as much as they could.
It's like talking about how terribly sexist American comics and animation are, and then showing nothing but manga and anime. Even if they have been translated into English and are for sale in the US, it doesn't mean they represent American cultural values or should be used as an example of "sexist American media"....
Toyotas are some of the most popular cars in America; many of them are even manufactured here. Toyota is a Japanese company, but they are built for Americans; they are representative of what types of vehicle Americans drive.
Video games, anime -- it's the same thing. Everything you see these days is made with Americans in mind. ESPECIALLY if you look at it and think it's sooooo Japanese, because that's what Americans want.
i think you wouyld have more of a pointr if you were talking about games in the 90s from nintendo- the 80s and early 90s(in m,y opinion, anything before snes) were very, very different. the cultural differences that were starting to be bridged in the late 90s had yet to be even addressed. they were putting out games that they thought might sell well because they did well in japan- dragon quest, final fantasy, mega man et al all came out here on the hopes they would do well, not because they were made for american tastes in the slightest. japanese companies do not release games here as a rule even nowadays- they have to be translated by a third party or the american branch of the company,which in many many instances treated like a third party company by the main branch anyway. to be blunt, japanese companies care about american tastes about as much as hasbro cares about the brony phenomenon- glad for the cash, but not exclusively catering to a market they did not intend to court.
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I can't talk about what Other M did to Samus without getting angry.
The saddest part is that the worst elements weren't the fault of Team "We think women need concealed carry permits for their breasts" Ninja, like a lot of folks feared.
The point is that the games were made to reflect Japanese cultural values, which are not the same as American cultural values....I don't know, to me that article just reads like an attempt to shut down discussion rather than provide an actual rebuttal. They aren't addressing any points she made, rather trying to make the issue about japanese games. Rather than getting into too much detail I'm going to just list a few questions and concerns I have with the article.
- The origin of the games is interesting, but not nearly as much as the writer seems to indicate. These aren't some obscure Japanese games here, Mario and Zelda are two of the most famous video game characters (if not the two most famous) from the 80's. For the most part she's addressing the games that many US children of the 80's grew up playing.
- It's a discussion on women in video games. It's great if the characters get more depth in cartoons and the like, but only tangentially relevant to video game tropes.
- Does the author actually contend that these 'damsel in distress' themes aren't common in american made games from the same period?
- The author even notes that Nintendo of America heavily censored games out of Japan in those days. Isn't that in itself an argument that they felt the damsels in distress status of Peach and Zelda was fine since that wasn't addressed?
The author is correct that this is a complex sort of topic which is multi-faceted. Various factors come into play beyond the ones directly talked about in the video.
But the suggestion appears to be that you can't discuss one aspect of it (the portrayal of women chiefly from arguably the most iconic video game company of all), without touching on everything else that may be a factor in the same sentence. Beyond a disagreement over Sonic's cast the author hasn't tried to counter actual points that were made. Merely suggested they aren't important because a whole bunch of other points weren't argued at the same time.
Mind that conformity to a problematic degree is an ongoing issue in Japanese culture. Japan has its own issues, some of which are shared with other cultures and some of which are unique. And that can bleed into Japanese media that the rest of the world consumes as well.
Attitudes towards how women deal with sexual harassment on trains are a particularly frustrating example.
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That article construes Japan as both some sort of holier-than-thou entity that deserves to be immune to criticism (entirely BECAUSE it has stupidly backwater views about women?) and a bizarre scapegoat for all the modern-day problems because "they started it"...
Shifty, I like the Girl Link hack too :)
Before clicking that link, I immediately thought of those two old pieces of fanart that sadly seem to have fallen off the internet featuring Zelda in series appropriate "hero gear", and remembered how much I always wanted that game.
I think that father's approach works out even better in some ways though. :)
I don't watch much TV, and when I do, I mostly watch non-mainstream shows like "Antiques Roadshow" or "American Pickers".
So when I do watch a "mainstream" TV show, I have to sort of readjust my expectations. One of the few mainstream shows I do watch (actually, now that I think about it, the ONLY one) is "The Big Bang Theory."
I know and work with a lot of females from late teens to advanced middle age.
I don't know a single one who dresses like "Penny". Penny is typically dressed in highly provocative outfits with plunging necklines that would probably be impossible to wear in an actual job without serious potential for a "wardrobe malfunction."
To suggest that gaming is somehow more egregious in depicting gender stereotypes is sort of amusingly naive.
Does this same women go nuts about an NFL football game where the men are dressed in stylized armor from head to toe, but the cheerleaders are dressed like common street hookers?
The question really should be why anyone is targeting gaming in the first place.
I think the character in gaming would also be stronger than cheerleaders and more of a fight. Although now I have a scene of adventurers running out of a burning tavern and also saving some people and I would not care if they are in their underwear that still is heroic.
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The impression Anita gave was "American games were terribly sexist because...", and then listed nothing but Japanese games, and ignored the efforts of American companies to change the games to suit American audiences as much as they could.
It's like talking about how terribly sexist American comics and animation are, and then showing nothing but manga and anime. Even if they have been translated into English and are for sale in the US, it doesn't mean they represent American cultural values or should be used as an example of "sexist American media"....
Toyotas are some of the most popular cars in America; many of them are even manufactured here. Toyota is a Japanese company, but they are built for Americans; they are representative of what types of vehicle Americans drive.
Video games, anime -- it's the same thing. Everything you see these days is made with Americans in mind. ESPECIALLY if you look at it and think it's sooooo Japanese, because that's what Americans want.
That is simply not true. Anime, manga, and imported video games from Japan are made entirely for a Japanese market, and vastly more is made than is ever seen here. The translation and import companies (or the American branch of those companies) chooses which products would best appeal to western audiences and would be the easiest to adapt, and they translate those. Generally, it must be a pretty big hit in Japan first, though, or else it won't be translated. So creators aim entirely for the Japanese market, and if, later on, it gets translated and sold overseas (which the great majority are not), then that's icing on the cake, or as someone else put it, sales to bronies.
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I don't think it's so much about "targeting gaming" because gaming has so many problems or is so much worse than the rest of mainstream culture, but just that we're gamers so sexism in gaming is something we notice and respond to.I don't watch much TV, and when I do, I mostly watch non-mainstream shows like "Antiques Roadshow" or "American Pickers".
So when I do watch a "mainstream" TV show, I have to sort of readjust my expectations. One of the few mainstream shows I do watch (actually, now that I think about it, the ONLY one) is "The Big Bang Theory."
I know and work with a lot of females from late teens to advanced middle age.
I don't know a single one who dresses like "Penny". Penny is typically dressed in highly provocative outfits with plunging necklines that would probably be impossible to wear in an actual job without serious potential for a "wardrobe malfunction."
To suggest that gaming is somehow more egregious in depicting gender stereotypes is sort of amusingly naive.
Does this same women go nuts about an NFL football game where the men are dressed in stylized armor from head to toe, but the cheerleaders are dressed like common street hookers?
The question really should be why anyone is targeting gaming in the first place.
Also, any subculture where "rape" has become synonymous with "defeat decisively" deserves special consideration. If she's doing a long term analysis of how we got from Pong to the MMO culture, that's worth watching.
I think the character in gaming would also be stronger than cheerleaders and more of a fight. Although now I have a scene of adventurers running out of a burning tavern and also saving some people and I would not care if they are in their underwear that still is heroic.
Do you either live in arkansas or talk about gaming with someone who does?
That scene has played out in at least two games before short of the fact the dwarves paladin slept naked.
Also, any subculture where "rape" has become synonymous with "defeat decisively" deserves special consideration. If she's doing a long term analysis of how we got from Pong to the MMO culture, that's worth watching.
I hear the word "rape" used in pretty much every "subculture" I know of in just about the same way I hear it used in gaming. Which is extremely rare anyway.
I hear the word "gay" used routinely in pretty much every subculture as a derogatory term by teens and twentysomethings. In fact there are conversations where I might hear "that's so gay" a dozen times without so much as a nod.
To suggest that gaming culture uses "rape" more than, just for example, sports culture, is just silly.
If we want to discuss a culture that truly denigrates and demeans women, why aren't we talking about hip-hop culture?
Do you either live in arkansas or talk about gaming with someone who does?That scene has played out in at least two games before short of the fact the dwarves paladin slept naked.
There are gamers in Arkansas? Where?
Around Little Rock there are several groups. And I know of two besides mine down in the south east area around Monticello.