|
Owen is a great addition to the design team. Good call.
I must say, I found the KS page very confusing and it puts me off pledging.
You've got the PFcompatible logo up there but then the text has a bunch of references to 3e and then when I start looking at pledge levels I don't see the words PF, PFRPG or Pathfinder anywhere.
Instead I see the words 'third edition' and '3.5' blowing around.
This is something which should be clear and unambiguous but instead is confusing as hell.
Both times I checked out this KS it put me off backing.
I had to read a 100+post thread on the paizo forums to get this straight (someone is going to tell me I should have read through the FAQs, I was too confused and put off to look for an FAQ).
Pramas, if you are able to change the text in your pledge levels then please, please, please alter them along these lines:
Scurvytown Special: This is for those who want the book and nothing but the book. You get a print and PDF copy of Freeport: The City of Adventure (third edition) for Pathfinder RPG rules and no other rewards. Add $30 for international shipping, or $15 if you are in Canada.
Freeport Pirate: You get a print and PDF copy of Freeport: The City of Adventure (third edition) for Pathfinder RPG rules. You also get PDFs of the Fiery Dragon Counter Collection Gold, Freeport Trilogy: 5-Year Anniversary Edition (3.5 rules), Fiery Dragon's Summoned Monster Counter Collection,Dark Wings Over Freeport(3.5 rules), the Player's Guide to Freeport (Pathfinder rules), and the poster map of the city. Add $30 for international shipping.Bonus: You also get a degenerate serpentman miniature!
Bonus 2: You get all six parts of the Return to Freeport PDF adventure series (Pathfinder rules) as they release in 2014!
The fact that this is the 3rd iteration of Freeport is only important to people who played the last two: the ruleset details matter to everyone.
Maybe I'm just an idiot. But us idiots fund kickstarter projects as well. And this confused me even though I am an English teacher with an MA, so maybe not altogether dim...
|
|
Also,
you might want to see what you can do to present portability.
If you were adding a guide which showed me how to incorporate Cerulean Seas, Razor Coast, Dreamscarred Press' Psionics etc. then that would show support for the 3pp scene and create marketing crossover.
You could even ask Stephen Radley-McFarland (as he is already involved) or James Jacobs to do a quick guide to dropping Freeport into Golarion and Skull & Shackles. It would have to be free (PF compatibility license) but it would add to the temptation for backers.
And you've announced Owen's involvement here, but not of the kickstarter: having the best 3pp rules guru on board is a huge coup and worthy of some fuss.
I guess anyone can get confused, but I don't know how much more prominently they can display that this is for Pathfinder rules. They have made a lot of changes to it already trying to clear this up including the FAQ. But as you are now clear what rules set it is for why not now chose to back the project and help promote it?
If you were adding a guide which showed me how to incorporate Cerulean Seas, Razor Coast, Dreamscarred Press' Psionics etc. then that would show support for the 3pp scene and create marketing crossover.You could even ask Stephen Radley-McFarland (as he is already involved) or James Jacobs to do a quick guide to dropping Freeport into Golarion and Skull & Shackles. It would have to be free (PF compatibility license) but it would add to the temptation for backers.
As someone who supports 3PP (my Bite Me! The Gaming Guide to Lycanthropes kickstarter project is doing this), I can see where you are coming from, but I would think Chris wants to add pages of Freeport material, not someone else's material. Also, getting access to Golarion, even though Chris has access to Paizo staff members as freelancers, is a different matter all together. That's big-time intellectual property. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would involve getting permissions, not just having someone write something.
Also, I agree that getting Owen to join the project was one smart move!
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I guess anyone can get confused, but I don't know how much more prominently they can display that this is for Pathfinder rules. They have made a lot of changes to it already trying to clear this up including the FAQ. But as you are now clear what rules set it is for why not now chose to back the project and help promote it?
Honestly, constantly calling it "City of Freeport Third Edition" seems like the kind of thing that should have been picked up when planning.
"So, if we use the term Third Edition over and over again... will that cause confusion?"
"Yes, yes it will."
"Okay, let's call it 'City of Freeport Ultimate Edition' instead."
"Good call."
"Or, City of Freeport Unchained Edition?"
"Also works."
"How about City of Freeport Badass Edition."
That's good too, as long as people don't mix it up with the ruleset we're using."
"Yeah, exactly."
...
Hey, who want to buy City of Freeport Third Edition?"
"Not me. I play Pathfinder now."
...
Hey, who want to buy City of Freeport Ultimate Edition for Pathfinder RPG?"
"Ooh, Ultimate Edition. And you changed it to Pathfinder too! Cool. I'm in."
As for funding, I spent my gaming budget on something else.
Owen is a great addition to the design team. Good call.
I must say, I found the KS page very confusing and it puts me off pledging.
You've got the PFcompatible logo up there but then the text has a bunch of references to 3e and then when I start looking at pledge levels I don't see the words PF, PFRPG or Pathfinder anywhere.
Yes, I agree that it is a bit confusing in that regard, as most of us think 3.X when we hear Third Edition. However, don't let that stop you from pledging! It IS a Pathfinder edition. A one-stop PF Freeport book is really needed to get new folks interested in the setting. The more customers, the more GR will continue to support the product line.
Let's all look at the big picture: If we want more Freeport,then this project needs to green light! I'm in for what I can afford. I hope others will join the effort and spread the word.
Pdfs are nice as a reference on the computer, but call me old fashioned and I really want that hard cover. It is just a lot easier to use at the table. Besides my shelves haven't fallen down yet from the weight of all the Green Ronin hard covers I have to I need to add some more hefty weight!
Just looking for a quick clarification, that maybe be obvious...
The new new $80 backer level that was announced on Monday reads: "You get a print and PDF copy of Freeport: The City of Adventure Third Edition and no other rewards."
That same day you announced the new 6-part adventure series that will be free to all backers of level $30 and up.
Will $80 reward backers get access to these adventures, or do they count towards the "no other rewards?"
I really hate quoting myself, but there's been quite a bit of discussion since my question got asked, and as someone sitting on the proverbial fence, the answer is one which could put me over the edge on the side of backing.
Anybody know the answer to this?
I'll ping Chris to see if he can answer that.
Chris says: "The $80 level gets no rewards other than the book and PDF of same."
I've updated the page to clarify the rules again and to note that Scurytown Special backers do not get the Return to Freeport adventures.
Thank you for the response.
|
|
If I've already got about 80% of the material, and a significant part of the new 100 pages is an adventure that I can thus only use once with my group, is it worth $30 for a pdf or $80 for a book for that new 100 pages, plus updates and color on the older stuff? That's what I keep asking myself, and so far, I haven't pledged. I already have the older 3.x material and the counter collection, so that's no draw for me. I think a lot of Freeport fans may be in the same boat as me, the amount of new material just doesn't seem to justify what seems to be full cover price (and maybe even more than that, if the pdf isn't free with the purchase of the book... do we even know what the MSRP of the book would be, before online retailer discounts?)
It just seems to me this was aimed more at new fans and not existing fans who already have most of the material, already in the Pathfinder rules or other favorite rules set. Good luck, I hope it succeeds, and if so I'll take a look at the book when it is released.
Samurai, don't forget that kickstarter is also about crowdfunding creative projects, helping them come to life--it's not about the retail. If you think more Freeport products would be great for the future, then throw a few bucks their way with no reward no help make it happen.
Yes, I'm cheerleading this project wherever I can. I'm a Freeport fangirl from way back, and I'm extremely passionate about this book happening! :) How can a one-stop Pathfinder Freeport book not be a WIN? There's just no way it can't be!!!!!
|
|
I know, and I've supported quite a few Kickstarters. But it really helps when I can say to myself "Self, you KNOW you're going to want to get this later, and it's cheaper and faster to get it through the KS." The Reaper minis were an incredible deal, and now that MSRPs are starting to be announced, some will be going for as much as 7.5x what they were in the KS. The Fate Core deal was an amazing amount of stuff for $10 (though I pledged much more than that by the end to get hard copies). The Achtung Cthulhu KS is giving 2 hardcover fullcolor books and about 1300 pages of pdfs (and still growing) for $60.
I could go on, but the point is, I look for a deal that jumps out and grabs me. Charging full price (or close to it) for both the book and pdf, and charging additional amounts for old material released years ago for a system 2 generations old (which I already own anyway) just doesn't grab me, despite Freeport being one of my favorite 3rd party settings. It IS one of my favorites precisely because I already own so many of the books which therefore makes a repackaging and revising of 2 of them plus 100 new pages for full price + less attractive. If the book sells for around $60 cover price, I'll be able to find it for $40 online, half the price of pledging to get it with the pdf in the KS. If the KS were (at most) "$40-45 for the book, get the pdf for free, plus get a bunch of pdf adventures, maps, etc", I'd possibly pledge, that's starting to sound like a decent deal even if I already have most of the book.
Hopefully it'll fund and I'll get a chance to buy it afterwards (if there is enough new stuff in there that I like).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I understand where you are coming from, Samurai.
Honestly, though, I have no clue what the book will cost when it hits retail; but being full color and 512 pages, it could very well be $100--which would make $80 a deal, especially as a bundle with US shipping. I seriously wouldn't expect it to retail for $60, considering the full-color Pathfinder Inner Sea Guide at 320 pages retailed for $49.99--and we are talking about almost 200 more pages with this book. And don't forget that printing costs are on the rise.
Sorry I can't convince you to throw in on the project at any amount. I'm not in at book level myself--funds are too tight--but I'm in for what I can afford, just because it's an inspiring setting that deserves a new breath of life. My considerations and yours are thus different. I, too, have supported several kickstarters, but I've been less concerned about getting product at a cheaper amount than I have been about helping the creator get a vision out to the masses. No worries, though. Both viewpoints are equally valid.
Thanks for hearing me out!
Well you can hope it funds or you can help it fund that is the choice because as it stands it may not as it is around $20K short with 8 days to go. Sure, I have seen plenty of KS get the funding in the last few days, but this one is actually getting me concerned. They have production costs that they have to meet in order to publish it regardless of what others may have done.
I'll just note that the book is looking to be at least 150 pages of new material at this point. Return to Freeport would be $24 if you bought all the PDFs as they came out. So $30 for both of those, plus the Player's Guide plus the map is pretty good deal.
|
|
I'll just note that the book is looking to be at least 150 pages of new material at this point. Return to Freeport would be $24 if you bought all the PDFs as they came out. So $30 for both of those, plus the Player's Guide plus the map is pretty good deal.
Hmm, yeah, that isn't too bad a deal... is the 64 pg Player's Guide all new material, or is it reprinted from the main book? And will there be any additional things a player may want in the main book that won't be in the Player's book?
We've got one week left to fund Freeport: The City of Adventure, so we're starting off Monday with some great news. Backers at $100 and up get a PDF of the new Dark Deeds in Freeport adventure from Kobold Press for FREE! This official licensed adventure should be released by June, so you can get some Pathfinder Freeport goodness to tide you over until the new book is ready. What is Dark Deeds in Freeport? Let the Kobolds tell you all about it!
Dark Deeds in Freeport
Why has truth suddenly become so commonplace in Freeport? Can the city support not one but two churches dedicated to truth-speaking? How are the secrets of thieves, assassins, Captains' Council members, and "legitimate businessmen" becoming common knowledge, and what can be done about it? What should be done about it? And is any of this linked to the rash of thefts, murders, and insanity plaguing the city?
Dark Deeds in Freeport is a 64-page adventure arc of five connected Pathfinder RPG scenarios designed for a group of four PCs beginning at 9th level and ending at 12th.
Dark Deeds in Freeport...
* features new spells, new magic items (from minor to near-artifact level), news monsters, new fully-statted Freeport NPCs.
* mixes swashbuckling, investigation, and insanity in ways familiar to fans of Green Ronin's popular Freeport setting.
* is fully integrated into the history and ongoing storylines of the Freeport setting and its adventures can be used individually or in a level-spanning mini-campaign.
* is written by Christina Stiles (editor of Green Ronin's Black Sails Over Freeport and lead designer of Kobold Press's Journeys to the West) and Mike Franke and Phil Minchin with contributions from Ryan Costello, Jr., Robert Hahn, Carlos Ovalle, and Rory Toma.
* is edited by Spike Y Jones (editor of Green Ronin's Testament and Wild Cards and Kobold Press's Midgard: Player's Guide to the Crossroads and Monsters of Sin series).
If you pledge at Freeport Pirate or above, you'll get Dark Deeds as soon as it releases!
Hmm, yeah, that isn't too bad a deal... is the 64 pg Player's Guide all new material, or is it reprinted from the main book? And will there be any additional things a player may want in the main book that won't be in the Player's book?
The Player's Guide takes all the player oriented material from the main book and combines it with an introduction to the city that doesn't reveal its secrets. The idea is that the GM can give it to players when they want to make characters or level up without fearing they'll learn things they shouldn't.
You may find today's update of interest.
Why $50,000? Why a Deluxe Book?
We’ve got five days left in the Freeport Kickstarter and we are still over $16,000 short of our goal. Throughout these last weeks, I’ve been reading your feedback and adding to or changing the campaign in response. People said they wanted more new content, so I added the Return to Freeport adventure series. I’ve also done things like offer a book-only reward level, and a way for Canadian backers to get more affordable shipping. The most common reason given for not backing the Kickstarter, however, is that the physical book is too expensive. I’d like to take some time to explain why I chose this format for the project and why our initial goal was $50,000.
Freeport is important to me because Death in Freeport is what put Green Ronin on the RPG map back in 2000. It sold like crazy and won an Origins Award and the very first ENnie Award (given to me by Gary Gygax, no less). I had originally conceived of GR as a fun side project and I didn’t expect it to be my full time job, but due to the success of Freeport and other d20 lines it became just that in March of 2002. Freeport was also the first commercial setting I created that was always fully under my control. No business wonk or brand manager could tell me what to do with it. You can understand, I hope, why Freeport means a lot to me.
During Freeport’s fallow period, it was always my intention to go back to it. The questions were when and how? Once Kickstarter began to change the face of RPG publishing, I of course thought of the City of Adventure. The way we used to publish, I would not have tried to do a 512-page full color hardback. It would be too risky and if it failed, could really hurt Green Ronin. That sort of calculus went into how we did the original Freeport hardback and its successor, The Pirate’s Guide to Freeport. The former was 160 pages with a black and white interior. The latter was nearly 100 pages longer but only 16 of its 256 pages were in color. Kickstarter thus seemed like a way to do the Freeport book I always wanted to do: big, sexy, and full color throughout.
I considered doing the new book without any game specific info, as we did with The Pirate’s Guide to Freeport, but sales data suggested that wasn’t the best approach. From what we could tell, the biggest segment of our d20 fanbase was now playing Pathfinder so using those rules seemed to make the most sense. We had previously published a Pathfinder Freeport Companion of 160 pages. Combine that with The Pirate’s Guide and our starting point was 416 pages. We certainly did not want to just slap them together and call it a day though; there had to be new material. That’s how the book ended up at 512 pages in our pitch. We wanted at least 100 pages of new material (and at this point it’s looking like at least 150 pages). We also wanted to revise and expand the material in the Pathfinder Companion to make sure the rules material was as up-to-date as possible.
When picking the goal for the Kickstarter then, I had to bear in mind the following costs:
• Art Budget: a conservative estimate for quality interior art and a new cover is $15,000.
• Print Budget: we are looking at least $25,000 here, since full color hardbacks are expensive to print.
• Content Budget: writing, revising, developing, and editing a book of this size—even starting with previously written material—is going to cost us upwards of $10,000.
So that’s $50,000 right there and that leaves us no profit at all. That just makes the book. Our plan is to do larger print run than the Kickstarter requires and then sell the rest of it through distributors, retailers, and our online store. That’s where our profit would actually come from if we only reach $50,000 with the Kickstarter.
I’ve been asked how much the book will cost at stores after the Kickstarter. Our estimate right now is $75. That makes the Scurvytown Special, in which you get the finished PDF and the book shipped to you, a pretty good deal at $80. At $100, of course, you get a whole lot more (like the Return to Freeport adventure series and the serpentman promo miniature).
Some people have suggested that we should have started smaller and built it up with stretch goals. Maybe so. Frankly though, I didn’t want to play that game. I wanted to clearly lay out my dream Freeport book and try to make a reality, and Kickstarter makes that possible. It tells you how much interest there really is in your project before you spend a lot of money on it. If this campaign fails, it will still have served a purpose. I will know this was not the right project at the right time. I will also have tried to give the Freeport fans something new, which they’ve been patiently waiting for these past few years.
But we aren’t done yet. We have five days to get Freeport: The City of Adventure funded and I think we can do it. We’ve already gotten some great promotion from our friends at Paizo and Steve Jackson Games, as well as game sites, podcasts, and fans the world over. Thanks to each and every one of you. We just need a final push to get the word out, to find old Freeport fans and make new ones. So tell your friends, tell the internet, and tell your old gaming pals that Freeport is looking for a new generation of buccaneers! Let’s hoist the skull and bones, spread the word, and find this booty for Freeport!
I can see the $50K budget w/o issue. Not sure why all the full color this year, but maybe that is what is selling now. We are in at $100 because the wife wants the adventures to go with it that are coming next year.
|
|
I can't help but wonder how the KS would have done if instead of repeating 2 fairly recent books and adding 100-150 new pages, it said: "An ALL-NEW book exploring the world of Freeport! The nations, peoples, pirates, clans of assassins, mysterious islands, degenerate cults, and lost cities of the entire setting revealed in unprecedented detail! Now you'll have tons of new ports of call, exotic places to explore, rivalries to exploit, and fantastic treasures to liberate from grotesque hands!"
I get that Freeport the city can be plopped down in other settings, but if you're going to spend $50,000 on a massive new book for the setting and the city itself is already well detailed with Pathfiner rules, I'd say move outside the city walls and think BIG!
I can't help but wonder how the KS would have done if instead of repeating 2 fairly recent books and adding 100-150 new pages, it said: "An ALL-NEW book exploring the world of Freeport! The nations, peoples, pirates, clans of assassins, mysterious islands, degenerate cults, and lost cities of the entire setting revealed in unprecedented detail! Now you'll have tons of new ports of call, exotic places to explore, rivalries to exploit, and fantastic treasures to liberate from grotesque hands!"
I get that Freeport the city can be plopped down in other settings, but if you're going to spend $50,000 on a massive new book for the setting and the city itself is already well detailed with Pathfiner rules, I'd say move outside the city walls and think BIG!
Because a lot of the value of Freeport is that you can insert it in existing campaign worlds without problems. An entire 'world' I don't want a new one of. I've used Freeport in Greyhawk, Golarion, and "random pastiche world".
For those that might read this and be on the fence, unsure of whether it's a worthwhile investment - or concerned if Green Ronin can pull it off or not... I thought I'd browse the backer list and give you a abridged rundown of a few pertinent backing names (note: this information is publically available by browsing the backers list on the kickstarter itself)
In no particular order:
Louis Agresta, Eric Mona, John Kovalic, Colin McComb, Sean K Reynolds, Christina Stiles, Lisa Stevens, Jim Groves, Ryan Scott Dancey, Gary McBride, Stephen Radney-MacFarland, Harebrained Schemes LLC, Obsidian Portal...
All of these people have pledged their own cash to help get the Freeportian monstrosity writ large in print - we're not far to go now from the final total and with a few more backers we'll all be able to make our way into Scurvytown for some bloodgrog!
and me, dear Dibbets. and me.
Hey all: I've upped my money, now UP YOURS!
Seriously, two years of fun in Freeport and around the Shackles on the ole PbP. What a great setting.
The problem is besides naming a bar or a pirate you really don't get anything beyond the Pirate level which is where we are already at.
brvheart - aye, we need 130 new souls to pledge up for the Pirate level to push us over the line.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well I don't suppose I can rightly explore the Temple of Knowledge without encountering this massive tome can I. I'm in!!!
Down to 115 now, less if imperial. I fear the international shipping won't help the total though. It is in range if it gets a big push in the final 2 days.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Look who's joined the Freeport crew!
Well I don't suppose I can rightly explore the Temple of Knowledge without encountering this massive tome can I. I'm in!!!
I, too, put up some of my hard-earned swag for this beauty. Now all we need are Kaul and The Groom, and the whole crew will be well-equipped for whate'er comes next.
I am doing a Reddit AMA right now. Come on by if you have questions!
Yohoho - last two days have been kind. Kicktraq says that over 100 fresh born souls have put their necks to the knife and shed blood for Freeport!
7,750 more pieces of eight to be put in the chest and we're home free.
And now it is a mere cup of blood over 6000 coins to go...
A whole slew of new pledge levels are available, and fantastic multi-system PDF support of the Player's Guide to Freeport has been added to every tier at Mariner and above (except the scurvytown special I think). If you want to be using new Freeport material in April (apparently) get pledging!!!
The problem is besides naming a bar or a pirate you really don't get anything beyond the Pirate level which is where we are already at.
There is a pitching pledge level now at the $200 level. Want to get a magic item into the book and a credit, then sign up there.