[Green Ronin Kickstarter] Freeport: The City of Adventure for Pathfinder!


Product Discussion

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Head Honcho, Green Ronin

Our new Kickstarter is live. Hoist the skull and bones, it's Freeport: The City of Adventure for the Pathfinder RPG!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1780208966/freeport-the-city-of-adventu re-for-the-pathfinder

You asked, we listened. Let's make it happen, mates!

Chris Pramas
Green Ronin Publishing

Liberty's Edge

I thought GR already did something similar a few years ago. With this product: http://www.amazon.com/The-Pirates-Guide-Freeport-Roleplaying/dp/1932442723/ ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1362087044&sr=8-2&keywords=freeport . I thought the whole reason for that product was to avoid putting any stats in the book in case a new edition was released. Not sure if I will buy it. Wish them the best of luck. I would prefer a deluxe full color version of the Advanced Bestiary convereted to Pathfinder.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Linkified. And pledged.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game, Rulebook Subscriber

So the cheapest choice for getting the print copy is $100?

Liberty's Edge

Wow - 512 pages is a big book!

Contributor

Here's another project I'd like to be a stretch goal on.


Very tempting....you bastards! :)

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Christina Stiles wrote:
Here's another project I'd like to be a stretch goal on.

You and me both!

Contributor

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Christina Stiles wrote:
Here's another project I'd like to be a stretch goal on.
You and me both!

At $70,000, Owen K. Stephens and Christina Stiles collaborate on a mega adventure that rivals Black Sails! Lol!


In at $30 for the PDF*. Should be a rollicking ride!!!

*Too many KS now have physical products at only $100 or higher. So sadface.


Aye - it's $100... but that nabs you a 512 page full colour book. That's less than 20c a page worth of Freeportian chicanery.

If you look at it from the Publisher's side - this is what Kickstarter allows them to do. Raise enough cash to throw down for a high-end art filled full colour book that they would probably never be able to justify without the large number of pre-orders that Kickstarter nabs them.

I agree that it's a lot... but you get a lot for that $100.

Liberty's Edge

I'm going to pass on this one. Unless they can guarantee at least 25% or more of new material I already own the Pirates guide to Freeport as well as the Freeport Companion which already converts the setting to PF rules. I can't justify spending that much of a pledge on something that I may already own.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Pirate's Guide to Freeport plus Pathfinder Freeport are abouut 400 pages together, so a 512 page book would be 25% additional material. Not necessarily new, they could, for example, include parts of Creatures of Freeport.
There are also some parts that would need updating, like the firearms section and I would like to see the book supporting Fire as She-Bears.
At the moment, I'm still hesitating, though, considering I already own the Pirate's Guide and the companion, so I'd need further information to make me pledge 130$ to get the physical book.


I've sworn of Kickstaters for now would people please stop putting up things up I'm interested in!!!! Arg!!!!


After looking at this as much as I love Freeport this won't be something I will pledge for. First lack of funds is being to set in. Also, I have the print version of The Pirate's Guide to Freeport and I'm getting Razor Coast, between the two I think I'm set. Another thing is I just pledged for Realm works which has the Pirate's Guide stuff as well. It seems strange for that stretch goal to be offered and then have a new version of the same material immediately come out. Even though the stretch goal is free material in some sense it still feels like a buy it twice thing.


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I should be all excited for this, since I own all Freeport-books. All of them. And "Cults of Freeport" still is one of my favorite system-neutral books ever.

But after watching the video... Well, I'm not that excited. I slept over it and have arrived at the conclusion why:

I don't really know what this new massive campaign book will offer. On the one hand, Freeport has brought hours of joy to my campaigns and on the other, the last city sourcebooks for it, imho, were rather mediocre when compared to "Cults". Adventure-wise, e.g. "Peril in Freeport" still ranks among the worst modules I've read for Pathfinder and the Companion, while an ok book, has never been updated to include e.g. all the APG, UM and UC-content.

I wouldn't be so careful, were it not for the fact that Fiery Dragon Games so far has not released a single PFRPG-compatible supplement and experience has shown that even experienced designers tend to make at least some rookie mistakes when designing for Pathfinder. This is especially relevant when e.g. city statblocks, naval/vehicle combat rules, firearm rules etc. are concerned.

Furthermore, at least for me as a long-time Freeport-fan, getting 3.5 modules I already own doesn't make for that exciting bonuses. Were they converted to PFRPG, that would be different, but right now, with all the new classes and rules, conversion has become more complex than it was in the advent of PFRPG.

What I'm trying to say is: I'd be interested to know who exactly works on this, what the credentials are, what the design-goals are and whether this will be a combined reprint, whether aforementioned rules will be used, whether there are plans for further support/ using rules etc. How much information will be updates, how much will be new?

From the information released so far, I can't glean either of these pieces of information from the kickstarter.

Just my 2 cents! All the best for the kickstarter!

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

I am in at the tavern level. I can't wait to name a part of Freeport!

Green Ronin was at the very forefront of the d20 movement, and Death in Freeport started it all. Their work with Mutants & Masterminds was innovative in its use of the OGL, and helped pave the way for Pathfinder. Paizo and Green Ronin have been friends and allies from the start, and it's great to see Freeport get a fully realized, fully awesome Pathfinder incarnation.

I enthusiastically support this kickstarter and can't wait to see how awesome it gets as legions of Freeport fans or the simply Freeport-curious drop by to hoist the Black Flag in support of the Green Ronin.

AVAST ME HEARTIES!

Liberty's Edge

Jadeite wrote:

Pirate's Guide to Freeport plus Pathfinder Freeport are abouut 400 pages together, so a 512 page book would be 25% additional material. Not necessarily new, they could, for example, include parts of Creatures of Freeport.

There are also some parts that would need updating, like the firearms section and I would like to see the book supporting Fire as She-Bears.
At the moment, I'm still hesitating, though, considering I already own the Pirate's Guide and the companion, so I'd need further information to make me pledge 130$ to get the physical book.

I'm in the same boat as you. In that I have both books also. So even with a possible 25% new material I too would need to find out more information before I pledge 130$. As well is it only going to be available through Kickstarter? Or will there be a cheaper version available in stores or at least through Paizo. My only hope if the book does well is to see a full color version of a update Advanced Bestiary. We do have one yet it's still 3.5 and I would like to see it updated to PF.

I'm not telling people not to get the book. Just that between the excellant Pirates Guide and Freeport companion I'm not sure how much more they can make the book better.


Erik Mona wrote:
Green Ronin was at the very forefront of the d20 movement, and Death in Freeport started it all. Their work with Mutants & Masterminds was innovative in its use of the OGL, and helped pave the way for Pathfinder. Paizo and Green Ronin have been friends and allies from the start, and it's great to see Freeport get a fully realized, fully awesome Pathfinder incarnation.

Edited for brevity.

@Erik Mona: I caught a Green Ronin Podcast of you with Chris Pramas and Nicole Lindroos talking about the future of open gaming (the podcast back in 2008, though I only listened to it last week). Long story short, it was a great hour or two on some history of the industry, history of the companies, and the sort of results that come from open licenses and "cross pollination" of ideas.

Needless to say, I will be keeping an eye on this KS project and an eye on my bank account to see if it allows.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm kind of in the same position as a few others... there's already PF Freeport stuff available and.. this may come across poorly but... GR has released 1 PF product in 3 years. I'd personally rather spend money on products from companies that more fully are vested in PF, like Frog God Games.

No offense to GR since I'm actually a big fan of Mutants & Masterminds, but hey if you want in on the PF fun I think ya kinda oughta be a little more involved in it. Not fire and forget one product and wait for checks to arrive.

Gah. That sure sounds bad but its honestly how I feel about it.

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Of course for GR to be fully involved there has to be a market for their material. So if no one buys their PF products because they aren't making more, they won't make more because no one is buying them.

I'm strongly pro-GR, and I'd love to see them fully embrace the PR marketplace. And yes, while I have written for them I've done nothing for GR in years and have no projects even under consideration right now. So my desires are entirely player-fanboy based right now. And, of course, my knowledge that GR has a long history of solid d20 design and great ideas.

I'd just hate for the opportunity for more GR Pf to be lost because there isn't already more Pf from GR. :)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more GR stuff as well but it just seems odd to try to milk this cow again...

Contributor

jreyst, Dark Deeds in Freeport (from Kobold Press) is in editing right now, so there will be some support--though not directly from GR. And, yes, that book has taken a long time to come to fruition. I took over the project in April last year, but was deep into Journeys when Wolfgang gave me the go-ahed to replace the former developer. But it's written!

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Without a freely-accessible Freeport Pathfinder book, GR doesn't have a core Pf setting to work off of.


We have bought a lot of Green Ronin D20 stuff in the last 10 years or so, Freeport, Thieves Guild among others and they are all good but the popularity never seems to be enough to keep them going. That and I have been out of work for 8 months now. My bank account can't afford another kickstarter.

Liberty's Edge

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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Without a freely-accessible Freeport Pathfinder book, GR doesn't have a core Pf setting to work off of.

That's the thing though. They do already have a core setting book out there. The Pirates guide to Freeport is essentially all setting. With no mechanics in case say a new edition of D&D would be released too quickly. The Freeport companion is the guide with all the rules and mechanics. The decision to leave the Pirates guide with no rules was imo a smart one. It allows anyone to pick up the book and use it with any set of rpg rules as well as any backgroud.

So while I want more GR PF books I do agree with Jreyst that releasing the same book twice with the same information when it's already been converted to PF rules and still in print is imo just strange to me. I would have preferred something new or the Advanced Bestiary.


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Add me to the want more details crew.

How much new content vs how much conversion/recycling? Where is the overlap to existing products? What is the new content?
Who will do the PF conversion?
PF credentials? Inclusion of APG, UC,UM etc.?

Maybe GR should pay Endzeitgeist to consult them on this project...;-)

I'm in for $1. Hope more details will be forthcoming soon...


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The last Freeport product, Freeport Companion (PFRPG), converted all of the material needed. The problem? It wasn't really Pathfinder in style. Before I will back this, I need more information. Will the classes get further tweaks (ie, archetypes). I feel some of the 3e classes would be appropriate as archetypes for existing classes, rather than a whole new class. Also, will GR make an effort to us existing pirate stuff from Paizo? Will this be something that could be dropped into Skull & Shackles, without having 2 different sets of rules?

You see, I jumped onto the Freeport Companion (PFRPG) when it came out, but it really wasn't Pathfinder enough. It was 3e with a couple of tweaks, so I need more info before I give this project my support.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

And while Fiery Dragon created great d20 products, they have even less Pathfinder experience than Green Ronin.


I'll join the chorus asking for more details. I've got just about all things Freeport so far and it's brought years of enjoyment. I went ahead and put in at the Bosun level on the KS, but would up that for a hardcover if I had a better idea of what to expect.

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

It is a 512-page deluxe treatment of Freeport. I suspect that blows away the Freeport Companion pagecount.

I'm in.

Dark Archive

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The real question we seem to have here is what does this offer that the Pirate's Guide to Freeport and the Freeport Companion PfRPG Edition combined don't. Page count only seems to go about 100 pages longer than what we already have, so just what exactly is new here?

Now a PfRPG Edition Advanced Bestiary, that I think just about all of us could get on board for with little to no hesitation. It's basically the only 3.5 era book that gets use in the AP volumes on a semi-regular basis, so we could all benefit from a new updated release. (Nyambe and some other titles not withstanding that earlier claim.)

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

The answer in the Kickstarter description is lots of new, full-color art, plus 100 pages of new, playable material.

But I suspect this is the wrong forum to ask followups. If it is like other Kickstarters, the best place to ask is right in the project updates.


I like Freeport.... but $100 is a tough pill to swallow. Especially since I'm getting Razor's Coast soon and that'll fill my pirate itch. I'll have to think about it. At the very least, I'll throw my lot in for the PDF.

Liberty's Edge

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Wolfgang Baur wrote:

It is a 512-page deluxe treatment of Freeport. I suspect that blows away the Freeport Companion pagecount.

I'm still skeptical that it will. The Pirates guide was never about having any rules information it. Already on it's own without the companion it's a pretty comprehensive book. The Companion is for people like me who are too lazy to write up our own material. otherwise I can take the pirates guide and drop it say into a Earthdawn game and use it with that system.

I just wonder if they can deliver enough new material to validate the 100$ entry fee and justify the deluxe treatment.

Contributor

Odraude wrote:
I like Freeport.... but $100 is a tough pill to swallow. Especially since I'm getting Razor's Coast soon and that'll fill my pirate itch. I'll have to think about it. At the very least, I'll throw my lot in for the PDF.

But you need Journeys to the West, as well. :)

Head Honcho, Green Ronin

Wolfgang Baur wrote:
The answer in the Kickstarter description is lots of new, full-color art, plus 100 pages of new, playable material.

Wolf is correct. As for what's going in the 100 pages, it'll be more material that expands the city. New locations, NPCs, adventure hooks, and a good-sized adventure. Maybe some new rules material if it's warranted but we'll be assessing what's already available first.

As for why we are doing this project when the Pirate's Guide and the Pathfinder Companion for it already exist, there are several reasons:
1) The Pirate's Guide came out in 2007 and we want to do a new core book to renew interest in the setting.
2) The line has been dormant for a few years so we wanted to getting it going again with a bang.
3) We sold a s#!# ton of Freeport books in the d20 era but only a modest number of PF Freeport Companions. We believe that the biggest segment of Freeport fans are playing Pathfinder now, but the previous two book strategy failed to appeal to them in large numbers. Many people told us flat out they didn't like buying two books they felt really should have been one.

The end result is big new book. However, we didn't want to just smash the two previous books together and call it a day. Thus 100 new pages of material. We also wanted to do a Freeport core book the way we always envisioned--in big beautiful color. This is how we arrived at the goal of a 512 page full color hardback. Naturally, we also hope that newer Pathfinder fans who weren't around in the d20 days will also check out Freeport and a Kickstarter campaign is a great way to raise awareness.

Chris Pramas

Dark Archive

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In my opinion it would be best to ignore the Pathfinder Companion and begin from scratch. While the book was fine when it was released, Pathfinder has evolved since then and unlike D&D, most new Pathfinder material is Open Content. I'd expect to see alchemists and magi, inquisitors and witches, orcales, cavaliers and gunslingers. As NPCs as well as classes supported by new options.
Pathfinder has rules for firearms. They are far from perfect, but usable. So use them.
Pathfinder has Serpent Folk. They aren't that different from the Freeport ones (not very surprising, considering both are based on REH).
There is no need to create a new base class if an archetype would be sufficient.
Are the Azhar necessary if there are already Ifrits? Just give them a few alternate racial traits. They already have the same ability modifiers.
Support for other ARG races would be nice, too.
If you include new feats or spells, check if there are already similar effects. If necessary (i.e. they weren't published in the RPG line), you could reprint them.
And what else would be great? A chapter on placing Freeport in other campaign settings like Golarion or Midgard.

Liberty's Edge

I'm going to wait and see and read reviews about the deluxe version before possibly purchasing. That being said imo sales of the companion were poor because of a lack of any advertising or big push from GR. I knew about it because I'm a fan o M&M and check their site regularly. Otherwise after 2007 Freeport was shoved aside and imo ignored. I was surprised to never see anyone from GR come here and other forums and try to drum up more interest in the product. Beyond myself and anoter player in my gaming circle no one knew about he Pirates Guide or about the companion. Please also incorporate all errata into the deluxe version. We don't need another Game of Thrones fiasco.

Head Honcho, Green Ronin

After the Pirate's Guide we published Cults of Freeport, Buccaneers of Freeport, The Lost Island adventure, the d20 Companion, True20 Companion, Savage Worlds Companion, Castles & Crusades Companion, Pathfinder Companion, and featured Freeport in Warriors & Warlocks for Mutants & Masterminds 2E. So yes, totally ignored.

Liberty's Edge

I am man enough to admit I made a mistake. No need to be snarky.

Freeport does need a big advertising push imo.


Christina Stiles wrote:
Odraude wrote:
I like Freeport.... but $100 is a tough pill to swallow. Especially since I'm getting Razor's Coast soon and that'll fill my pirate itch. I'll have to think about it. At the very least, I'll throw my lot in for the PDF.
But you need Journeys to the West, as well. :)

I do, don't I ;)


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Jadeite wrote:

In my opinion it would be best to ignore the Pathfinder Companion and begin from scratch. While the book was fine when it was released, Pathfinder has evolved since then and unlike D&D, most new Pathfinder material is Open Content. I'd expect to see alchemists and magi, inquisitors and witches, orcales, cavaliers and gunslingers. As NPCs as well as classes supported by new options.

Pathfinder has rules for firearms. They are far from perfect, but usable. So use them.
Pathfinder has Serpent Folk. They aren't that different from the Freeport ones (not very surprising, considering both are based on REH).
There is no need to create a new base class if an archetype would be sufficient.
Are the Azhar necessary if there are already Ifrits? Just give them a few alternate racial traits. They already have the same ability modifiers.
Support for other ARG races would be nice, too.
If you include new feats or spells, check if there are already similar effects. If necessary (i.e. they weren't published in the RPG line), you could reprint them.
And what else would be great? A chapter on placing Freeport in other campaign settings like Golarion or Midgard.

+1. This is excellent advice. I severely dislike PF-lite conversions that are quasi 3.5 only you get more feats. Use more of the current depth of PFRPG. Use existant Paizo material or Tome Of Horrors monsters if they fit. Give some love to the new PF clases that fit.


I thought this was supposed to be Freeport not a new setting for Golorian? All of these new classes may fit in nicely to Golorian but they don't mesh well with all settings. Sorry, but for a lot of us the closer you keep it to 3.5 the better IMHO. And as far as Tome of Horrors it has been around since 3.0 and would fit that PF-lite classification by inference. Not that I have any issue with TOH, it os one of the best monster tomes ever created and the conversions as usual were well done. But if all you are making is another Skulls and Shackles out of it, what is the point?

Dark Archive

The APG classes are probably more generic than monks or paladins. Freeport is a better fit for gunslingers than most of Golarion.
Background feats should be replaced with traits.
And while Freeport offers some information on its worlds, it's also meant to be inserted in any other Campaign Setting, be it Golarion, Midgard, Razorcoast, etc (also inserting it into Celurean Seas might prove difficult).

If you want a Pathfinder book that's nearly 3.5, just get the Freeport PF companion.
For me, a setting should make use of the strengths of a system. And one of the main strengths of the Pathfinder RPG is that most of the rule content Paizo produces is free for 3PPs to use and expand.
Pathfinder isn't just 3.75. Stopped being that when the APG got released.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, count me in the "a kitbash of 3.5 material re-labeled to Pathfinder is a no go". That could pass in 2009, but we're 3 years down the line and APG/UM/UC shouldn't be treated as "something Paizo came up for with Golarion in mind" but as essential elements of the ruleset.

There are more than enough of books that are 3.5 material with Pathfinder logo slapped on them in a hope of capitalizing on the bandwagon with as little effort as necessary. Green Ronin is a company with exceptionally outstanding record during the d20 era, so here's to hoping that the Kickstarter will help them sit down and reforge Freeport into something that can stand on the shelf next to 3PPs who went the full dive in (cheap pun intended) into the new rules.

Also, since I think there are quite a lot of people who, like me, want to drop Freeport in Golarion and Skull'n'Shackles, getting the book fully Pathfinderized with Gunslingers, Witches and Ninjas will do nothing but help drive the sales and make everyone happy.


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Also: archetypes! No need to make a new class if it is close enough to a existing class to be made an archetype! And please make use of existing archetypes! D20pfsrd has lots of piratey ogl material.


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Jadeite wrote:
And while Fiery Dragon created great d20 products, they have even less Pathfinder experience than Green Ronin.

I'm afraid this is a big part of my concern too. I can do a workman's job of converting to Pathfinder... what I need is brilliant conversion work I'd never think of on my own. People like Christina Stiles and Owen Stephens have lots and lots of Pf experience. And Mr. Stephens has done awesome work for GR before (though maybe never on Freeport? I dunno).

Why not get expertise like that on this book? Hearing Christina and Owen were on it would make me much more interested.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

I am confident that Green Ronin will make this product super awesome. They are experienced hands at the publishing game and knows what it takes to meet the demands and standards of their audience.

It is going to be very, very good. I expect nothing less from Green Ronin.

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