Metamagic rods with multiple casters


Rules Questions


Just curious, staffs and wands specify charges. But a metamagic rod only says "Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day." There's nothing bout 3 charges per day.

Can my buddy use Enlarge rod, then toss it to me so I can use it three times?

Paizo Employee Senior Designer

It's a little gray here. I would say the intent is that it can't be used more than the indicated number of times per day. The shady area is does "The wielder" mean "the guy holding it right now" or "whomever happens to hold this during the course of the day"?


I read it as three times per day per wielder. It'd be weird to mention charges on wands, staffs, even some wondrous items, but not 3 per day on rods?


As a GM, I would definitely rule that the rod only works a total of 3 times/day, no matter how many people try to use it for whatever. Otherwise it's WAY WAY WAY too powerful.


RAW is pretty cut and dried. The X per day is a limitation on the wielder, not the rod.

RAI is extremely questionable. I'd probably houserule the same as tonyz.


tonyz wrote:
As a GM, I would definitely rule that the rod only works a total of 3 times/day, no matter how many people try to use it for whatever. Otherwise it's WAY WAY WAY too powerful.

Is it really that wrong to use group funds on a group item?

I never really played a caster, so I don't know how broken it is for me and my buddy to buy a Extended Rod for 11,000gp and throw it between us as needed during combat. Yes we could buy two separate rods, but the effect would be the same?


The rod description for (for example) the Metamagic, Empower Rod says

Core rulebook pg.484 wrote:
The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are empowered as though using the Empower Spell feat

Not "each wielder", but "the wielder". The person who is "the wielder" might change, but "the wielder", whoever it might be, of that rod is still limited to three uses per day. If someone has used the rod twice before you, then "the wielder", who was someone else before but is now you, can only use it once more.


Yes, it's really broken to allow you to toss a rod back and forth -- don't think so much the combat uses, as the out-of-combat uses, e.g. using a lesser rod of extend to cast lots and lots and lots of long-duration spells, or a lesser rod of empower to have sixty or so level-1 clerics each cast 3 cure light wounds.


bodhranist wrote:

The rod description for (for example) the Metamagic, Empower Rod says

Core rulebook pg.484 wrote:
The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are empowered as though using the Empower Spell feat
Not "each wielder", but "the wielder". The person who is "the wielder" might change, but "the wielder", whoever it might be, of that rod is still limited to three uses per day. If someone has used the rod twice before you, then "the wielder", who was someone else before but is now you, can only use it once more.

This.

Do boots of speed allow each wearer of the boots to use 10 rounds of haste?

Cloak of displacement, major allow each user 15 rounds?

Adhesive armor? Shadowform belt? Corset of the Vishkanya? Robe of Scillinating Colors? Shirt of Immolation? Caltrop Boots? Daredevil boots? Nightmare Horseshoes? etc. etc.

The wording on some of those doesn't mention anything about wearer/wielder/etc. These all look like, walk like, and quack like ducks though. Therefore they are all ducks. They all have a limited uses per day, regardless of who activates them. RAI should be very plain on this. RAW could maybe use a little cleanup I suppose, but it is clear enough, in my eyes at least.


tonyz wrote:
As a GM, I would definitely rule that the rod only works a total of 3 times/day, no matter how many people try to use it for whatever. Otherwise it's WAY WAY WAY too powerful.

Seconded.

I have no idea why they didn't just say '3 charges per day' or 'can be used 3 times a day'.


I do rule that it is 3 uses per day but is it a move action or a standard action to pass it off?


Free action to drop it on the ground, the other persons move action for them to pick it up. There are no rules for handing it off, but I wouldn't rule it any worse than this scenario.


Thank you for the advice

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