You can continue to hex enemies after you've run out of spells.
Evil Eye -> Misfortune -> Save or Die is a pretty straightforward combo that neither Wizards or Sorcs can do, and will almost certainly down an enemy. If not, cackling lets you try again next round :P
Edit: Well, Cackling is useful right from the start to keep the Evil Eye on, even after a successful save.
And yeah, hexing everything all day long is a nice plus. Evil Eye is amazingly spammable and amazingly useful.
cackle is also something other mages dont really get access to, being able to extend a spell's effect is possibly insane
To me, the strength of the witch, other than the all day hexes,is when she is paired with a flash bang sorcerer or wizard. With her destroying the opponent's saves, the sorcerer/wizard can crush with SoD or direct damage spells.
That's my favorite way to play a witch, debuffing so that others can really can bring the thunder.
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witches are not better then other casters.
better is an opinion, not a fact. so if you look at a witches hex and think man these guys are OP as hell, wait until your witch has to fight a dungeon full of undead. all of a sudden all those class features are basically worthless, your spell list is very lack luster, and worst of all
you dont even have a worth while ranged weapon as a back up. hope to god you have lots of scrolls and a high UMD skill.
but if they are in there comfort zone of things that are vulnerable to mind effecting spells and effects, then yeah they can make or break an encounter by making the enemy miss to often to be a threat.
@TheSideKick: You can still Misfortune/Cackle on anything as they are not mind-affecting. If you have a wand-activating familiar, then you can Ill-Omen prior to the Misfortune to ensure it goes on.
The witch is exceedingly good at amplifying the killing power of the rest of the party. They have a decent selection of control spells, a good selection of buff spells, and a tremendous selection of debuff spells.
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ok, i still stand behind my statement. i was aware of misfortune not having the descriptor of mind effecting, but if misfortune is power house ability of a witch, then i would say that create pit out performs it in almost every aspect. i would also say that if the use of wands is a valid basis of argument, i wouldnt think a spell caster like a wizard would never "run out of spells" .
witches are good, but then again every class from that book is generally better then a comparable class from the CRB, but are they the best caster no way... well unless you're playing a scarred witch doctor, those guys are the most broken archetype in the game right now.
oh i just wanted to clerify, ill omen wouldnt help you against undead. but a sorcerer with the undead blood line can be far more effective against undead as far as mind effecting goes.
now if you had a sorcerer and a witch in the same party your gm would be screwed.
You play a Witch for at will save or dies. Namely Slumber and Ice Tomb, and Retribution can be a good save or suck. Going Scarred Witch Doctor to be a Con-based caster is also a legitimate draw.
Beyond that, there is no good reason to be one rather than a wizard, in terms of optimization. But the above is a VERY good reason...
The witch hex mechanic addresses what is generally considered perhaps the single greatest weak point of other full casters, which is the limited number of times they can perform their class's signature ability.
This is especially helpful at low levels before other casters gain the ability to cast a large number of spells per day. But even at higher levels with greater hexes the same basic concept still applies.
This is somewhat mitigated by the limited nature of the witch's spell list, but witches still have some of the very best arcane spells plus gain the ability to cast some divine flavored spells.
Overall it becomes a matter of taste which is more powerful. They are "different" and that's all it takes for some players to claim they are more powerful and some to claim they are less.
Just like the other class vs class arguments that never end and never will end so long as the game is based on different classes with distinct and separate class abilities.
666, the best witch to deal with undead is the gravewalker. They don't fight undead, they steal them.
So, what I'm hearing is that witches are sort of like bards -- perhaps a bit underpowered in and of themselves, but they're just great to have around?
Doug M.
Witches are my new favorite 5th character to have in any party. When all the other bases are covered, their hexes and magic make the party even more formidable.
So, what I'm hearing is that witches are sort of like bards -- perhaps a bit underpowered in and of themselves, but they're just great to have around?
Doug M.
I would not say witches are underpowered at all. I will say that their most powerful options are very subtle, and as such many players may not really value them. Debuffing the enemy makes the enemy fail more. In many cases it is hard to know if the enemy is failing due to the witch, or just due to normal failure. So since it's not overt, it isn't acknowledged.
I tend to think a well-played witch is one of the more powerful classes in the game. And the witch is one of the very few full casters who can manifest that power consistently in encounter after encounter starting at level 1.
By far my favourite class to play. A Witch won't dominate by herself, but she can absolutely decimate enemies who are prone to mind-affecting effects and, even then, there are ways to be useful even against those enemies.
It's also worth noting that a witch can basically cover the most important bases of the arcanist and the divine caster in your party. While this doesn't translate to "power" necessarily, if you're looking for versatility, the witch is surpassed only by a samsaran cleric or oracle with the right domains/mystery, or an elven ancient lorekeeper oracle.
Unlike Sorcerers and Wizards, Witches can cast Cure spells and eventually Heal. That's a pretty important distinction. Evil Eye and Cackle are also pretty super.