My party needs a face and they need some stealth, and that's where my Rogue hopefully comes in. It's a 20 point buy and I will be starting at 3rd level. I know that many in the community feel that Rogues are over-shadowed by other classes but I still like the flavor/idea of the charismatic sneaky man with a dark side (I like a bit of mystery for my characters).
With that all said, I don't really know where to start mechanically. I DM most of the time so I haven't made many PC's for Pathfinder and I was hoping to get a little help from you guys. Any help or thoughts (and I am open to other options) are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Good for you, get that rogue going.
But if you have more specific questions, that might help.
Lol!
Ok, I'll be more specific:
Which Archetypes are worth looking at?
Is TWF a feat chain worth going down or is the combat prowess of the Rogue enough?
Is Feint worth using in combat (and taking Improved Feint)?
Is dipping into Fighter, or even multi-classing into it, worth losing Rogue levels?
Those are the main questions I have.
What's the party composition? What do you want from your Rogue?
Do you have any preference for combat/character style?
Two-weapon Fighting? Cunning Bastard with a Honeyed Tongue? Scary Brutish Thug? Charming Brutish Thug? Stealthy Assassin? A mix of two or more of those? Something completely different?
Underpowered or not, Rogues can be made in all of the above. You jsut have to know what you want. You may not be the most powerful guy in the party, but you probably be capable of contributing more often than not.
Great, I've been ninja'ed by the answer to my post... lol...
There's one archetype that lets you Sneak Attack every time you charge, and eventually, every time you move at least 10ft. I think it's named "Scout", but I'm not sure.
TWF is okay for a Rogue if you have a reliable flank buddy (and you definitly should have one!). It benefits a lot from high Dex, which also helps your skills and initiative. Your STR doesn't need to be very high, a 12 is probably enough. This also means you don't need to bother getting Double Slice.
but if you want a more DPR-focused Rogue, a Str-based build is probably better. Give him a reach weapon and some cool feats like Combat Reflexes and Lunge. Power Attack is not that good for Rogues, thanks to their medium BAB and lack of self-buffing, but with Furious Focus and a two-handed weapon, it becomes a much better deal.
Feint is a cool and useful combat maneuver, but if requires a pretty heavy feat investment. Combat Expertise sucks. And that 13 Int requirement will make your already severe MADness a nightmare.
I honestly don't like the Rogue/Fighter mix. You lose too much of both classes to make it worthwhile. IMHO, if you want to go that route, you should just stick with a Trapper Ranger, spend a few traits on social skills and roleplay it as a Rogue.
You'll have better saves, better BAB and more skills.
Which reminds me, your saves are pretty weak. Find some way to boost them! Cloaks of Resistance are an obvious answer, but traits like "Resilient" and "Auspicious Tattoo" also help. I particullary love the "wayfinder + clear spidle ioun stone" combo, which gives you protection against possession/mind control as per Protection From Evil.
Oh, and pick Shadow Strike, so you can S.A. enemies with concealment.
Thanks for the replies Lemmy and Nicos.
My party consists of a ranged Fighter, a Barbarian Sorcerer, a Wizard, a Battle Cleric, and a Druid. We don't have a face for the group and though a Bard seems to fit well, I'm not that enthuisatic about playing on (can't get past the music part).
I like the idea of playing a Cunning Bastard or a Charming Brutish Thug.
Combat-wise, taking a combination of Knife Master and Scout can produce some nice results.
Other than that both my wife and I have had fun playing the Swashbuckler and Rake archetypes.
With your skill points and the amount of class skills you get, I don't think you'll have much trouble being cunning and/or charming.
I can't believe I'm saying this since I love rogues, but if you do want to go the bard route without the music, take a look at the Bard archetype called "Archaeologist".
Basically, it takes away the Bard performances and throws in a bunch of rogue abilities, including eventually getting some rogue talents.
If you want to be a charismatic, sneaky character with good face skills that is very much like a rogue, what about the ninja? Its an alternate class isntead of an achetype, but ti does everything you want, does it well, AND has lots of cool toys. There are few things I can think of more useful to a rogue then the vanish ninja trick.
4 full casters... Man, you gonna have to work hard...
For the "cunning bastard" feel, the coolest build IMO would be TWF, Weapon Finesse and Improved/Greater Feint/Dirty Trick. Sadly... The feat requirements are absurd for a a Rogue.
It's doable... But it'll take a long time to come through. And if you decide to go that route, be human. The extra feat will really help.
Charming Brutish Thugh is actually quite simple! Get that two-handed weapon, good Str score and decent Cha (not too high, you can't afford to dump any attribute... Except, maybe, Int, but who wants a dumb Rogue?).
I like this build because it's pretty simple, doesn't need a heavy feat investment and is probably more effective in combat.
I love the idea of dealing precision damage with a Greataxe... heh... But I don't think rogues are proficient, and even if they were, you'd probably do better if you picked a reach weapon. (BTW, have backup weapons in case you get disarmed! And carry a bow! ALWAYS have a ranged weapon)
Invest in social skills. Diplomacy and Bluff are iconics for Rogue, Sense Motive and Intimidate are equally useful. And you ,still have other 4~6 skill points to spend! I suggest Perception, UMD Acrobatics and Disable Device. Stealth is either awesome or useless, depending on how lenient your GM is. Escape Artist is... well... mostly useless, but you can use it to escape grapples, so there's that.
BTW, Defensive Combat Training raises your CMD considerably. You should consider taking it.
If you are human, you can get up to 3 Skill Focus feats for the price of one (at 1st, 8th and 16th level)! Although it'll take a long while to grab that last one, the first two come pretty early! Use them for your favorite skills! (Or, if you have 13+ Cha, to qualify for the Eldritch Heritage feats! Dragon, Demon and Orc are pretty awesome for brutish characters!)
Half-elves also get a free Skill Focus (just one, though), but I think a better deal would be trading it for the alternate racial trait Dual-Minded,w hich increases your poor will save by +2.
Last but not least, check the archetypes Nicos suggested. They are pretty solid. (Actually, they may be the only Rogue archetypes worth a damn)
Yeah, I looked at Archaeologist too and I'm sorry it pains you :) It is a cool and flavorful class though.
Knife Master and Scout look strong for combat. How do you combine Archetypes though?
If you want to be a charismatic, sneaky character with good face skills that is very much like a rogue, what about the ninja? Its an alternate class isntead of an achetype, but ti does everything you want, does it well, AND has lots of cool toys. There are few things I can think of more useful to a rogue then the vanish ninja trick.
My DM isn't allowing the new classes. Thanks for the idea though.
4 full casters... Man, you gonna have to work hard...
Thanks for all your thoughts Lemmy...is Rogue worth it here then, or would something else be better?
Well, essentially you can combine any archetypes that do not alter or replace the same ability. Look on d20pfsrd.com at the rogue and you'll see a list of archetypes. If you can find two that don't have X's in the same ability categories, they stack.
So, Knife Master and Scout stack because they replace/alter different abilities, but there are plenty of other archetypes that DON'T stack.
Also, remember you can only take your archetype(s) (barring GM permission) when you take your first level in that particular class.
...or a Charming Brutish Thug.
ok then a thug is a great choise. For example a 20 point buy
Human thug/scout
Str 16, dex 12, con 14, int 10, wis 12, cha 14
1. Weapon Focus, weapon focus (glaive or wathever)
2. Intimidating prowess via rogue talent
3. Power attack
4. Slow reaction, +1 to str
5. furious focus
6. Cornugon smash via combat trick
7. Iron will
8. Offensive defense, +1 str
9. Lunge
Thanks Nicos, I like that build. Do you think a Half-Orc would work, or is the Human extra feat too good to pass up?
Well, essentially you can combine any archetypes that do not alter or replace the same ability. Look on d20pfsrd.com at the rogue and you'll see a list of archetypes. If you can find two that don't have X's in the same ability categories, they stack.
So, Knife Master and Scout stack because they replace/alter different abilities, but there are plenty of other archetypes that DON'T stack.
Also, remember you can only take your archetype(s) (barring GM permission) when you take your first level in that particular class.
Cool, thanks Lamontius...that clears it up for me. Now to convince my DM that Archetypes are a good thing :)
I'm about to try a rogue with Magical Knack and one sorcerer level. Vanish, Shocking Grasp, and Acid Splash all make it a cinch to get off your sneak attacks. Plus you can use scrolls and wands, which is great for a rogue, and you get a bloodline (for my Charlatan I'm taking Rakshasa.) Since you're planning on investing in CHA anyway, it should work well.
Alternately, a bard would work as a charismatic sneaky man. Bards are stealthier than rogues and much more charismatic.
Bards can be, but I don't think a bard can out do a rogue in stealth. Especially if the rogue can cast spells to boost there stealth even more.
Ninja isn't a new class, just an alternate rogue class, they get some rogue class features, but the also get there own. Should really talk to the GM about the ninja cause it fits more of what your are looking for in a character then a "charismatic rogue".
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Alternately, a bard would work as a charismatic sneaky man. Bards are stealthier than rogues and much more charismatic.Bards can be, but I don't think a bard can out do a rogue in stealth. Especially if the rogue can cast spells to boost there stealth even more.
Ninja isn't a new class, just an alternate rogue class, they get some rogue class features, but the also get there own. Should really talk to the GM about the ninja cause it fits more of what your are looking for in a character then a "charismatic rogue".
Except bards can cast spells like invisibility and vanish, because they are a bard.
I played a 3.5 rogue and an area I found myself using alot was UMD. He went the twf route late in his career and overall wasn't the most effective character, but he was adept in his research of arcane spells and with access to ye ol magic shop would pick up scrolls to use on himself mostly. Greater magic weapon, shield, probably mage armor, and other long-duration spells. He of course was trap monkey as well, though a rather cowardly scout:). His saves were a weakness. I probably should have added heroism to the list of scrolls. Good luck.
4 full casters... Man, you gonna have to work hard...Thanks for all your thoughts Lemmy...is Rogue worth it here then, or would something else be better?
If you're willing to play another class, how about an Inquisitor with the Conversion Inquisition? It allows you to use your Wisdom instead of Charisma for a lot of social skills.
You also get a bonus to Intimidate and Sense Motive, plus some cool at-will abilities like Detect Allignment and Discern Lies.You have almost as many skills and a lot of cool sneaky spells, like Detect Traps, Invisibility, Knock and Silence. With those, you'll be a better Rogue than any Rogue.
(Sadly, Rogues are not particullary good at stealth and infiltration).
And your saves are awesome.
You can easily roleplay the "Brutish Charming Thug". The buid is even pretty similar.
It'd be a lot harder for your full-casting friends to overshadow you. They may still be able to do it if they really, really want to (they are full casters after all... ¬¬'), but it'll take a lot more effort
I'm a bit biased, though, as Inquisitor is one of my favorite classes.
Except bards can cast spells like invisibility and vanish, because they are a bard.Alternately, a bard would work as a charismatic sneaky man. Bards are stealthier than rogues and much more charismatic.Bards can be, but I don't think a bard can out do a rogue in stealth. Especially if the rogue can cast spells to boost there stealth even more.
Ninja isn't a new class, just an alternate rogue class, they get some rogue class features, but the also get there own. Should really talk to the GM about the ninja cause it fits more of what your are looking for in a character then a "charismatic rogue".
Except Rogues can do that also w/out having to learn a spell.
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Except Rogues can do that also w/out having to learn a spell.Except bards can cast spells like invisibility and vanish, because they are a bard.Alternately, a bard would work as a charismatic sneaky man. Bards are stealthier than rogues and much more charismatic.Bards can be, but I don't think a bard can out do a rogue in stealth. Especially if the rogue can cast spells to boost there stealth even more.
Ninja isn't a new class, just an alternate rogue class, they get some rogue class features, but the also get there own. Should really talk to the GM about the ninja cause it fits more of what your are looking for in a character then a "charismatic rogue".
They need to use rogue talents, which they have less of than Bards have spells.
I'm a bit biased, though, as Inquisitor is one of my favorite classes.Mine too. By far the best of the non-core classes IMHO.
Agreed. They're very well balanced, have lots of unique stuff that is actually useful and, more importantly, can contribute in pretty much every situation without overshadowing the specialists (unless said specialist is a Rogue, but that's the Rogue's fault!)
They need to use rogue talents, which they have less of than Bards have spells.Except Rogues can do that also w/out having to learn a spell.Except bards can cast spells like invisibility and vanish, because they are a bard.Alternately, a bard would work as a charismatic sneaky man. Bards are stealthier than rogues and much more charismatic.Bards can be, but I don't think a bard can out do a rogue in stealth. Especially if the rogue can cast spells to boost there stealth even more.
Ninja isn't a new class, just an alternate rogue class, they get some rogue class features, but the also get there own. Should really talk to the GM about the ninja cause it fits more of what your are looking for in a character then a "charismatic rogue".
No they can just UMD spells and not have to worry about spells.
ciretose and Dark servitude present:
QUOTECEPTION!
Can we go back to giving useful suggestions and advices to the OP? I'm sure there's at least 2 new "Rogues Suck" threads this week.
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Unfortuntally, I'm temporarlly without internet in my house (I'm posting this from a friend's house), so I can't use HeroLab and the internet at the same time right now.
It'd be a nice way to give some build ideas to the OP.
Hey, we actually have some nice builds (made by Nicos and me) in the "Rogues and Underpoweredness" thread. They're in the 2~3 last pages, so they should be easy to find.
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For this kind of rogue id highly suggest going Human and getting the Fast Learner Feat. That way when u level in ur favored class being rogue u get both a skill point and a health point along with the extra skill point from just being a human. So ur amount of skills known would be 8+1+1+int for a 10+int skill points along with +hit point every level. Fast Learner btw has a min of 13 int to qualify so i would just bump that to an even 14 so u get 2 points instead of 1 from int.
Another thing to consider is to pick up a single level of Efreeti Bloodline Sorcerer with at least 14 cha. This way u can pick up the level 1 spells Vanish, Erase, and Ant Haul which are great spells at any point of the game. The 0 level spells u would want are Drench, Read Magic, Spark, and Ray of Frost. If doing this i would also consider picking up the human feat Racial Heritage Half-elf with the half-elf feat Multitalanted Master to make all classes favored classes. With Sorcerer as a favored class go with the human favored class bonus to get a free 0 level spell being Disrupt Undead. The reason btw for Efreeti bloodline is to convert ur Ray of Frost into a fire spell since targets with resist/immunity to cold dont have the same defense against fire and at times are actually vulnerable to it and like wise the other way around. Also the reason for the 0 level spells is to be able to do a few things that others probably dont think of. Drench for 1 to extinguish burning targets along with not needing to carry a full Waterskin with u since u can fill it ur self when ever. Spark so u can light up torches if the light spell is not available and to light up combustible objects like powder kegs to do damage to targets or clear a room fast. Read Magic so u can target game hooks and rune traps, later game, much easier. Disrupt Undead and Ray of Frost is so u have a ranged attack that can be performed an infinite times per day that can deliver SA that target touch AC to make ur life easier.
Which Archetypes are worth looking at?
Is TWF a feat chain worth going down or is the combat prowess of the Rogue enough?
Is Feint worth using in combat (and taking Improved Feint)?
Is dipping into Fighter, or even multi-classing into it, worth losing Rogue levels?
- Any alternative class that trades out Trapfinding is usually a good thing.
- Combat skills are a lost cause for Rogues and waste you Feats.- Combat Expertise and Improved Feint lets you get a chance to Sneak Attack each round. Probably worth it. You can do it every-other-round without those two feats.
- at 10th level, great talents like Hunter's Surprise really pay off. Multi-classing puts those off too far.
***Feat: Extra Rogue Talent is very good. Some Rogue Talents allow rolling two dice for: Dipl, Sense Motive, Bluff, Acrobatics, and Sleight of Hand. So a human Rogue at 3rd level could conceivably have 4 Rogue Talents PLUS whatever it gets from the alternative class.
For this kind of rogue id highly suggest going Human and getting the Fast Learner Feat. That way when u level in ur favored class being rogue u get both a skill point and a health point along with the extra skill point from just being a human. So ur amount of skills known would be 8+1+1+int for a 10+int skill points along with +hit point every level. Fast Learner btw has a min of 13 int to qualify so i would just bump that to an even 14 so u get 2 points instead of 1 from int.
Why do you need a million plus one skill points? Fast Learner is a waste of a feat, and the rogue does not have feats to spare. Toughness is strictly better than Fast Learner unless you want to take Improvisation as well.
I mean, if your rogue is doing literally nothing but skillmonkeying, go ahead and boost int to 14. But if you want to do things while people are fighting, pumping int is a waste of much-needed stat points.
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No they can just UMD spells and not have to worry about spells.They need to use rogue talents, which they have less of than Bards have spells.Except Rogues can do that also w/out having to learn a spell.Except bards can cast spells like invisibility and vanish, because they are a bard.Alternately, a bard would work as a charismatic sneaky man. Bards are stealthier than rogues and much more charismatic.Bards can be, but I don't think a bard can out do a rogue in stealth. Especially if the rogue can cast spells to boost there stealth even more.
Ninja isn't a new class, just an alternate rogue class, they get some rogue class features, but the also get there own. Should really talk to the GM about the ninja cause it fits more of what your are looking for in a character then a "charismatic rogue".
Yeah, a bard couldn't do that...wait a second...
Bard, Class Skill Use Magic Device (Cha)
And what is the Bard's high ability score again?
@Lemmy - I think a rogue would be fine, and if that is what he wants to play, he should feel free. I'm just pointing out if the goal is a party face with sneaking, Bard Archeologist better fits the bill quite well, and arguably better for those purposes.
Now if there is another reason the player wants to Rogue, great. Rogues are wonderful.
But based on the criteria, just making a suggestion.
@Lemmy - I think a rogue would be fine, and if that is what he wants to play, he should feel free. I'm just pointing out if the goal is a party face with sneaking, Bard Archeologist better fits the bill quite well, and arguably better for those purposes.
Now if there is another reason the player wants to Rogue, great. Rogues are wonderful.
But based on the criteria, just making a suggestion.
I know, man. I had nothing against your first 2 posts. It just got silly when you guys got into the quote wars. lol.
(BTW, I agree with you on the BardxRogue comparisson.)I also think a Rogue could do it. It's not an unplayable class, it can and probably will contribute in a lot of different situations. (I even gave the OP 2 long posts of advice, see? And I didn't even sugggest Bard/Inquisitor/Ninja in those!)
But then, the OP gave me the impression that he wants to play a cunning/charming character. Not necessarily a Rogue. He just doesn't want to be a Bard.
That's when I suggested the Inquisitor.
Half orc Scout with a falchion. New racial abilities from APG mean huge Perception. Darkvision, too.
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For this kind of rogue id highly suggest going Human and getting the Fast Learner Feat. That way when u level in ur favored class being rogue u get both a skill point and a health point along with the extra skill point from just being a human. So ur amount of skills known would be 8+1+1+int for a 10+int skill points along with +hit point every level. Fast Learner btw has a min of 13 int to qualify so i would just bump that to an even 14 so u get 2 points instead of 1 from int.Why do you need a million plus one skill points? Fast Learner is a waste of a feat, and the rogue does not have feats to spare. Toughness is strictly better than Fast Learner unless you want to take Improvisation as well.
I mean, if your rogue is doing literally nothing but skillmonkeying, go ahead and boost int to 14. But if you want to do things while people are fighting, pumping int is a waste of much-needed stat points.
The reason for the "million plus one skill points" as u put it is because Rogues, especially PFS ones, need the skill points since there relaid on mostly for the skill challenges. Also i dont know about u but all th games ive played in the last 35+ years my DMs show no mercy when it comes to character behavior, traps, and environment to the point were all my characters, including fighters and wizards, take certain skills to aid them in such endeavors out of combat. Said skills would include but are not limited to Acrobatics, Climb, Diplomacy, Perception, Sense Motive, and Swim. Acrobatics to actually clear jumps and walk on ledges when needed. Climb to scale walls and mountain sides. Diplomacy to actually interact with NPCs on a relative decent standings. Perception to notice game hooks, stealthy creatures, and better chanced not to be jumped in surprise rounds. Sense Motive to determine if im being lied to and to defend against Feint attempts as well as judging the atmosphere of certain social situations. Finally, Swim so i can cross and hopefully not drown in running and still water.
Also Fast Learner is on par and can be considered better than Toughness. Toughness grants u a total of 20 HP for just leveling 1-20. Fast Learner grants u 20 HP and 20 Skill Points for leveling in ur favored class from levels 1-20. Admittedly if ur multi-classing then Fast Learner's relevance crops a tad but not much since those that do multi-class dont do more than 4 levels of something else so ur still getting 16 skill and HP from a single feat.
Not to mention from personal experience of mid to late game play, in normal games of level 1-20 and epic games that go beyond that, a way some DMs cope is by using skill challenges more often when getting to and dealing with combat encounters. That spells at times can not deal with because of veritable change of circumstance within the game. Some examples is areas of anti-magic, inability for periodic rest, ill preparations, and traps triggered by certain actions just to name a few.
Dodge, mobility, and combat reflexes are the key cornerstones to taking 5 lvls of unarmed fighter for snake style and snake strike (at lvl one and two respectively). Get brawling light armor and by the time you get weapon training get gloves of dueling for a +5 to hit and damage with your ua strike. Use a temple sword of dueling and you will get a +3 to hit and damage with it, but you will be using it as a "shield" instead. Then continue out as rogue. Trust me, it won't let you down.
Wow! Thanks for all the replies and ideas...lots to think on.
Lemmy is correct when he said that I was looking for a cunning/charming character to play, and that Rogue was what I saw to play since I didn't want to play the Bard. The Inquisitor intrigues me because I hadn't really thought that charming/cunning was part of it's skill set...I hadn't really looked at the class very closely. I would love to hear more about this option, if possible. Archaeologist looks really good as well, and, if I were to stick with Rogue, I think the Thug or Scout fits the bill nicely.
Again, really appreciate all the input on this. Thanks.
You can play a good old plain rogue and have a lot of fun.
Just need to plan ahead a bit more perhaps and know what you want to do and why. If you think you need a lot of hp, there is a new feat tribal scars from people of the north. It gives you +6hp and +1 to a save and a skill or +2 to perception and another skill. I think it´s pretty cool. On top of that you can then take toughness and fast learner. If you want it and play out skills a lot fast learner is definately worth it.
As a rogue you can´t take weapon focus at level 1, since you need +1 BAB.
You can't take Power Attack without a BAB, either :)
Which Archetypes are worth looking at?
If I wanted to build a "charming brutish thug" who served the role of party face and sneak, I would probably choose one of the following archetypes:
1) Rake (APG): You can trade sneak damage to demoralize with the bravado's blade ability. If you eventually build up the Dazzling Display feat tree to Shatter Defenses, you can demoralize a foe, who if he stays shaken long enough, is then flat-footed to you, meaning you can keep doing sneak attack even if he moved out of flanking range or whatever. It's not super powerful, but fun. And while you won't always be able to use it, the alternative is just using normal sneak attack damage, which is never a bad thing.
You also get bonuses to Bluff and Diplomacy. Besides being good for a party face, it also means it's ideal to do a feint build with this archetype. Which means you'll be getting more sneak attacks, which gives you options to demoralize...
The Intimidate and bonuses to other skills aspects really reflect the "charming brutish thug" quite aptly.
2) Chameleon (UC): Less charming or brutish in its own fluff (but you can still be charming and brutish with it, certainly), but ideal for a party-face-stealth-guy because it ties Bluff and Stealth together. The terrain ability's kind of neat for a stealth/advance scout kind of character as well.
And because you're building up Bluff, this also is a good one for a feint build.
Both archetypes' suggestions for talents are good ones for the most part for the character concept; alter as needed for what both seems appropriate to your character, the campaign, and what looks like fun. I would definitely pick up Fast Stealth. At high levels, grab Hide In Plain Sight--always useful for the Stealth Guy.
Also Minor and Major Magic can be fun, even if limited--and since these archetypes drop trapfinding, getting Minor Magic to cast detect magic gives you another way to look for magic traps.
Is TWF a feat chain worth going down or is the combat prowess of the Rogue enough?
Is Feint worth using in combat (and taking Improved Feint)?
Since you are playing a party face character and thus likely to build Bluff (even if you don't use either of the above archetypes), it is worth putting together a feint build. It only takes 2 feats to start with--Combat Expertise and Improved Feint--which means a 1st level human or 2nd level any other rogue (with the help of the combat trick talent) can be feinting as a move action and then sneak attacking away on standard. This also gives you room to build other feats as you like.
TWF can be fun, but I personally recommend it more for fighter/rogue hybrids because it is a lot more feat intensive (but personally I also think a fighter/rogue twfer is pretty fun to play). And I wouldn't combine them, because TWF obviously relies on full attacking while a feint build uses a move action to feint.
Is dipping into Fighter, or even multi-classing into it, worth losing Rogue levels?
It really just depends on your concept and what you want out of the character.
If I were playing the "charming brutish thug who is the party's sneaky face," personally I would probably skip taking fighter levels and focus on skill monkeying my heart out.
But if you find yourself pulled into more combat and find you really need a slightly better to-hit or JUST need a couple more feats to fill out your fighting style, a level or few of fighter can help (rogue/ranger is also pretty cool). And like I said if you want to do TWF rogue, I personally find TWF fighter-rogue a good way to go. You have to decide if losing the sneak attack dice, progression of skills and some talents, and skill ranks is worth a boost in BAB, Fortitude saves, and bonus combat feats. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.