Greatclub and shillelagh

[CFet]

Would you rule shillelagh to work with a greatclub?

EDIT: Please find it in yourself to ignore the atrocious spelling in the thread title.

[Seranov]

Nope. Just clubs and quarterstaves.

[Ol' Nejj]

So a greatclub is not a club of larger size, it is a weapon unto itself then. I just see it as a larger club :S

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

You could use it on a large-sized club, but that would entail a size penalty under most circumstances.

[Dennis Baker]

It's a bit vague. Subject to table variance. There is a discenting minority who allow it.

[Vod Canockers]

Dennis Baker wrote:

It's a bit vague. Subject to table variance. There is a discenting minority who allow it.

Only if it is made of oak.

[Stome]

See the thing I have about stuff like this is when something says "bow" it works for a short or long bow. When something says "sling" it works with the number of different kinds of slings.

[Dennis Baker]

Stome wrote:

See the thing I have about stuff like this is when something says "bow" it works for a short or long bow. When something says "sling" it works with the number of different kinds of slings.

There is a fair amount of debate about whether you can use sling feats and racial traits on the slingstaff as well.

[HaraldKlak]

Stome wrote:

See the thing I have about stuff like this is when something says "bow" it works for a short or long bow. When something says "sling" it works with the number of different kinds of slings.

There is a quite important difference between 'bow' as a generel type of weapon, and 'clubs' which are also specific weapons.

That Shillelagh isn't supposed to work with greatclubs, are further supported by the actual damage die numbers, given by the spell.

[Karuth]

○ The size of your body does not matter for spell casting abilities (meaning spellcasters of equal level and with an equally high casting stat, cast spells equally strong).
○ As per weapon size rules, weapons of inappropriate sizes can be wielded with a penalty (A small shortword, can be wielded like a medium dagger or a large longsword can be wielded like a medium greatsword)

So, for a Cloud Giant Druid, who naturally wields Gargantuan Weapons, a Club deals 3d8 damage.

Now there are two options. Either the Shillelagh spell does not work for him at all or it works relative to size (increasing damage to 6d8). If it is the latter option, then a human druid should be able to cast the spell on larger weapons too (as spellcasting power is equal).

Or how about the following situation:
After a battle with an Orge Druid, the party rogue (a Str build) loots the club of the Ogre (1d8 damage) which still happens to have Shillelagh active (3d6 damage).
He decides to wield it Two-Handed and uses his absurdly high Use Magic Device skill to pretend he is the ogre druid, allowing the effect to work for him. Or not?

[Vod Canockers]

Karuth wrote:

○ The size of your body does not matter for spell casting abilities (meaning spellcasters of equal level and with an equally high casting stat, cast spells equally strong).

○ As per weapon size rules, weapons of inappropriate sizes can be wielded with a penalty (A small shortword, can be wielded like a medium dagger or a large longsword can be wielded like a medium greatsword)

So, for a Cloud Giant Druid, who naturally wields Gargantuan Weapons, a Club deals 3d8 damage.

Now there are two options. Either the Shillelagh spell does not work for him at all or it works relative to size (increasing damage to 6d8). If it is the latter option, then a human druid should be able to cast the spell on larger weapons too (as spellcasting power is equal).

Or how about the following situation:
After a battle with an Orge Druid, the party rogue (a Str build) loots the club of the Ogre (1d8 damage) which still happens to have Shillelagh active (3d6 damage).
He decides to wield it Two-Handed and uses his absurdly high Use Magic Device skill to pretend he is the ogre druid, allowing the effect to work for him. Or not?

Unfortunately NOT. Only because the UMD doesn't allow you to emulate an individual and the Shillelagh spell only works for an individual.

Now if said Rogue had a Wand of Shillelagh and picked up the dead Ogre Druid's club, then Emulated the Ogre & Druid it would be a bigger Shillelagh.

[Turkina_B]

High enough level Druid :-
Gets a large enough piece of oak, casts Wood Shape on it to create a club sized for a huge creature, casts Shillelagh on it, transforms into a huge whatever and bosh! plenty of hurt!

[Malag]

Short answer, no.

Longer answer, rules of the spell say it works with club or quarterstaff. It doesn't mention greatclubs. Some people might far strech this claiming that clubs are group of weapons, but honestly, it's obvious that spell isn't meant to work with it.

[Karuth]

I wonder though why people are so strict with Shillelagh.
Sure it would increase die size by two steps if you allow it to work without restrictions, but its weapon selection is very limited even if you are generous (blunt, non-magical, wooden weapons)

Lead Blades works on any weapon, even if it is magical. It only increases by one step, but since you can use a bigger/better weapon to begin with it comes to the same result.

I don't see why you guys are afraid of an oversized great club with Shillelagh (4d8?), when you could have an oversized great sword with Lead Blades (4d6 I think). The damage advance is minimal (and could be countered with a +2 enchantment) and it has other advantages like the threat range of 19-20.