So, I have played a Universalist Wizard up to 10 th level. It s the first time ever that I have played a magic user.
Our group is facing off against an ancient black dragon next week and I was wondering what kind of tactics and strategies were recommended. I looked up black dragons and it seems that magic isn't very useful against them.
What should I do?
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Run away and use the holy hand grenade of antioch.
Let Brave Sir Robin deal with it.
Fight in a confined area that does not allow for easy flying for the dragon, have the area with lots of cover to hide behind for breath attacks. Find items to help over come SR and saves.
On a more serious note, present the build of your character for more specific answers.. and possible quotes.
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Our group is facing off against an ancient black dragon next week and I was wondering what kind of tactics and strategies were recommended. I looked up black dragons and it seems that magic isn't very useful against them.
What should I do?
I'd start by not looking up monsters your PC is going to face between sessions. Does your
GM know you did that? Many GMs would consider that cheating. Making in-character knowledge checks, consulting sages, libraries etc. are all valid ways of getting that information. Searching the bestiary to learn things your PC doesn't know is metagaming.That said, I'd load up on things like protection from energy (acid) and other spells to defend or buff your party, since targeting the dragon with spells that allow saves and/or resistance is not likely to be very effective.
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I totally agree with the above. Though, since you are playing a wizard and your GM told you what was to come, then it might be assumed that you are expected to research the foe beforehand- this, of course, provided you have the appropriate knowledge skill and maybe the opportunity to study (and learn that you are going to fight a black dragon).
A fighter who can't hurt a target should probably focus on defending allies or dealing with the targets he can hurt. Or just stalling, distracting, etc. I would argue that a wizard in the same position should be doing the same. Magic isn't the answer to everything (actually it almost always is but that's beside the point). Buffing, adjusting terrain, battlefield control (my favorite!) and underused and overlooked attack spells that ignore saves or the like (I think Melf's Acid arrow is ranged touch which should easily hit a dragon- but don't use acid arrow against a black dragon because well...anyway) Magic Missile, Guidance, Summoned Monsters, energy resistance spells, the long list of options goes on and on.
First, email your GM and ask him how you can utilize your knowledge skills, or social skills to gain knowledge about the black dragon.
Assuming your character is able to learn the most basic things about black dragons before preparing for the fight you might want to do some of the following things:
1. Get some consumable items that protect against acid damage.
2. Prepare for a major battle in a swamp. Free movement might be helpful.
3. Summon a couple of rhinos and send them after the dragon with powerful charge.
4. Dragons typically have poor touch AC, so spectral hand your most damaging touch attacks.
5. Hide behind the guys in the shiny armor.
I first address point about cheating. I was told as the Wizard to look up the info on my own (rest of the pcs are ignorant of the challenge) so that way I could know about black dragons and roleplay my knowledge. So, I was given permission to research on my own. As I said, I am new to magic users. I have also only been playing RPGs for about 5 years or so. I am also not a native English speaker. I think the DM was trying to give me boost up or something.
How does one use spectral hand and touch attacks together?
If you're feeling lazy, here's a spoiler.
The hand is incorporeal and thus cannot be harmed by normal weapons. It has improved evasion (half damage on a failed Reflex save and no damage on a successful save), your save bonuses, and an AC of 22 (+8 size, +4 natural armor). Your Intelligence modifier applies to the hand's AC as if it were the hand's Dexterity modifier. The hand has 1 to 4 hit points, the same number that you lost in creating it.
Spectral Hand allows you to use touch attack spells of 4th level or lower from the hand as if it were you. I suppose would be the gist of it.
Use spells to make your party strong; haste, fly, stoneskin, displacement, etc. Any or all of them will help your fighters move and fight better, and survive the dragon's attacks long enough to bring it down (hopefully).
Give them some form of acid resistance, like protection from energy (acid), or even resist energy. Trying to cast spells on the dragon itself will be difficult, so don't count on that working for you. Use your magic on your party, not the dragon. Prepare ahead of time, as much as you can.
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The spells i would go with if i were u and have access to them are as follows.
1- Comprehend Languages, Magic Missile (x3)
2- Resist Energy, Scorching Ray (x3)
3- Protection from Energy, Fly, Haste
4- Greater Invisibility (x2), Elemental Body 1 (Air)
5 -Elemental Body 2 (Air)(x2)
Simple strategy of use Greater Invisibility combined with Fly or Elemental Body 1 or 2 to run away when things get hard and to stay hidden so the dragon does not know of ur exsistance for the most part. Elemental Body 1 and 2 will also increase ur Dex to better help ur to hit for Scorching Ray which targets touch AC. Comprehend Languages will also be needed if the target is speaking with minions so u to can understand the battle tactics of ur enemy. Protection of Energy Btw will be cast 1st to adsorb the acid damage. Once Protection from Energy wears off use Resist energy to cut down on the damage by 20. Simple enough and easy to do. Ive fought many a dragon in D&D and in all i find the fights easy, primarily because im usually playing sorcerer which has a lot more ability to blast than a wizard and all my attack spells are either Rays or AoEs for each energy type.
Also i usally have a back up weapon in order to still do things. When allowed i go with a gun and pick up the spell fabricate bullets and ake whole. A gun btw because it hits touch ac. If guns not allowed a simple bow works if u have the gravity bow spell. After all as a caster, especialy a wizard, u run out of spells on occasion and its good to have a back up way of damage other wise u are completely useless to ur party other than acting as cannon fodder.
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My advice is don’t be too effective.
Our party went up against a black dragon a bit older than yours. I was quite happily blasting away with force orbs and summoned Giant Stag Beetles when the dragon realized I was causing it more damage than anything else.
Despite my protestations that I was out of spells the Dragon took offense and took the attacks of opportunity lumbering over to my wizard and tearing him in half.
So lesson learnt; when fighting something that can turn you into a small bloody puddle in one round; don’t outperform the front line otherwise you will become it.
Sic
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My advice is don’t be too effective.
Our party went up against a black dragon a bit older than yours. I was quite happily blasting away with force orbs and summoned Giant Stag Beetles when the dragon realized I was causing it more damage than anything else.
Despite my protestations that I was out of spells the Dragon took offense and took the attacks of opportunity lumbering over to my wizard and tearing him in half.
So lesson learnt; when fighting something that can turn you into a small bloody puddle in one round; don’t outperform the front line otherwise you will become it.
Sic
Hence Fly / Elemental Body Air with Invisibility. If things start to go nasty u get a flying. Ive played this game for a long time and there is no shame in running away once u have served ur use and there is nothing u can do but that. Also no shame in running when u encounter a target that is definitely more powerful than u and the party. A few rules i live by when playing. Attack to kill, Defend to protect those dear, Run to fight another day.
Prepare (or get a scroll at caster level 11) Resist Energy, Communal, and possibly Protection from Energy, Communal. Use it when the fight starts, then back up your teammates with Haste, Heroism, Fly, summoned monsters, and perhaps some other defensive buffs, like stoneskin. Dragons are inherently casters, so maybe dispel magic too.
THE single most important piece of advice for dragonslaying wizards: Just about all mature dragons have magic resistance. Unless you have built your character to pierce SR, you should avoid casting spells directly on the dragon, as between SR and the beastie's usually-good saving throws, there is a very large chance that any direct offensive spell will completely fail. If this happens the dragon will laugh at you for wasting your precious spells. Don't glory hound with damage or save-or-die effects. Instead focus on buffing the party, summoning help, and doing basic battlefield control. If for some insane reason you absolutely must use a direct attack spell, pick a ranged touch attack or a Reflex save.
The dragon's nastiest attack is assuredly its acid breath. Prep as many acid resist spells as you can. Cast them on the tanks first and yourself last - if you are doing it right, the dragon will barely notice you. Be ready for lots of physical attacks split into several average-strength hits. DR buffs like Stoneskin are glorious if you can manage it. AC buffs are a close second. The dragon probably has some damage reduction, so strength spells, enlarge person, etc on the warriors will be a big plus. General-purpose DPS buffs like Hasting the fighter will get you much farther than fireballs and rays. Summons are also nice, but very situational against dragons, whose wide array of combat tactics can render many of them completely useless. If you like summoning, you want high-damage monsters like the rhino, but seriously, don't even bother if the dragon can just escape by ducking underwater or taking to the air. Don't summon swarms of little monsters because acid breath. You're probably best off calling up one big flying monster with a lot of hit points.
Black dragons are aquatic ambush monsters and usually lair in swamps and areas with a lot of water. If your DM is clever, you are overwhelmingly likely to encounter the dragon either on the wing, or hiding beneath a large bog or pool. Half the battle is just getting into position to actually deal damage - bows and magic arrows are useful for this, as they can hit almost any position the dragon can attack from. If you can corner the dragon in a dry cave, half the battle is already won. Minor note: Black dragons have darkness as a spell-like ability, and do not need to see you to pinpoint and kill you. Unless you have a way to dispel or counter that, your party will be at a major disadvantage.
Know what battlefields are likely based on where you are adventuring that day, and prepare specifically for the terrain. If the dragon is likely to come from the air, use fly spells on the strongest melee guys, and prep a feather fall or two to catch anyone the dragon tries to drop from three hundred feet up. If the dragon is hiding in a swamp or pool, there will usually be too much cover for the dragon to fly, but the dragon will utterly ruin anyone that gets in the water with it. Either don't get close enough to be grappled and dragged under, or get the fighters some piercing weapons and cast water breathing and free action spells on them.
Dragons are incredibly fast and have a lot of truly nasty ways to kill PCs from very safe positions, but one evil trick I've seen used effectively (and hilariously) is to exploit their low maneuverability. Let it get up in the air and divebomb the party, then just before it hits you, cast a wall of force (or similar) spell ten feet in front of its nose. SR generally does not affect solid walls once they are conjured, and few dragons have enough maneuverability to turn aside in time to avoid the huge amount of falling damage. This is about the only thing (beyond blind idiot luck, enormous volleys of magic arrows, and siege weapons) that I've ever seen drop a full-grown dragon quickly and painlessly.
Prepare (or get a scroll at caster level 11) Resist Energy, Communal, and possibly Protection from Energy, Communal. Use it when the fight starts, then back up your teammates with Haste, Heroism, Fly, summoned monsters, and perhaps some other defensive buffs, like stoneskin. Dragons are inherently casters, so maybe dispel magic too.
This. If you aren't able to overcome the SR, just go for being the support/tactical command. Haste, protection from energy, and summon monster are going to be where it's at. Oh and good ole enlarge person.
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1) Buff the party - haste and mass acid resistance are almost mandatory if you don't want at least one PC to die. Group fly is highly useful as you really don't want to be on the ground in an acid pool.
2) Protect yourself - vanish, mirror image, Shield (vs MM), Mage armor, etc
3) Use no-SR spells like Glitterdust, preferably with persistent metamagic (lesser rod perhaps)
4) Work on tactics that try and stop the dragon from flying and otherwise limit its mobility.
5) Plan for helping/rescuing trapped/fallen PCs (dim door, grease, freedom of movement, Vanish, etc)
6) Plan to counter the dragons spells
7) It would be really, really useful to land a slow spell (preferably persistent) to get it down to only one attack per round. (a 12th level elf with spell penetration and greater spell penetration has a +18 on his penetration caster level check to give a 60% chance of landing a spell). Possibly get some Dweomer's Essence to get +5 on penetration.
All are excellent ideas.
What if, in the case of a dragon hitting a wall of force, what it hit it nearly vertically ( in a dive bomb) edge on? Would that cut it?
i would not take magic missile if the dragon gets shield spell on its list as dragons tend to have time to cast it before the fight with the knowledge that your in the next room fighting
a wind spell may be good if it as any spells like acid fog or obscuring mist
as for the wall the i would say no but that is your GM's call (would not hold breath) that being said if you could use the spell to restrict the dragons movement you may have something