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I was reading up on the pearl of power.
The question is about the bit about how the "just as if it had not been cast" part. I was talking to my GM and he said this doesn't let you exceed your spells per day limit. But, if it counts as if it had never been cast then how could it count?
I can see his argument as the scrolls of spell knowledge are an easy counterpart for the pearl for spontaneous casters but the "doesn't count" wording is bugging me.
I'll admit I'm fishing for some FAQ flags on this. Some clarification from the design team would be appreciated.
To me, the pearls exist to fill a hole for prepared casters: more castings per day as the pages fill a hole for spontaneous casters: limited spells. What do you think?
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Yes, yes it does let you exceed your spells per day limit. Your GM is wrong. A pearl of power is almost effectively buying a new spell slot.
If I have Grease prepared, and I cast it, I can then use my pearl of power and get back that Grease spell and cast it again.
The only real limitation of a pearl of power is that you must have prepared the spell you are getting back.
I can't therefore prepare and cast Grease, and then use my pearl of power to get back lets say Color Spray, which I did not prepare.
"Just as if it had not been cast" also means "does not count for your casts per day limit".
At least that's how we've always played it. Any GM who tried to argue otherwise at our table would probably be the recipient of gales of laughter.
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I think that it's abundantly clear that despite the arguments put forth by your GM, Power Attack is indeed a prerequisite to Cleave.
Would you all say the same about the Magus spell recall ability? And, if you would please, hit the FAQ button. What if we're wrong?
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Would you all say the same about the Magus spell recall ability?
Off the top of my head, yes. The Magus is exchanging one or more points from his Arcane Pool for additional spell castings.
Also, while Magus wasn't listed in the PoP description, they would be able to benefit from one, as well. Which is good for the Kensai, since they give up Spell Recall.
Also page of spell knowledge is not the equivalent of PoP for spontaneous casters. Runestone of power is. The pages are pretty much in no way like PoP
WTF is a pearl of power supposed to do if not effectively increase your spells per day limit? (acknowledging of course the caveat that it must be for [a] spell[s] previously expended that day)
Did you ask your GM that? because I don't see any use for that item in a scenario where it doesn't do what it quite clearly says it does (re-prepare a spell as if it hadn't been cast).
My GM was saying the plus is you get to act like a spontaneous caster a little by not having to memorize a spell multiple times.
Well, considering Sean K Reynolds marked my 1st post as a favorite, I would take that as pretty good sign that we're not wrong, him being a developer n' all.
Haha, indeed. I didn't notice that.
Also page of spell knowledge is not the equivalent of PoP for spontaneous casters. Runestone of power is. The pages are pretty much in no way like PoP
Well, that was his comparison. :/
That's my point. Tell him his comparison is well flat out irrelevant because the items are in no way at all alike.
No, he said explicitly the item doesn't grant extra spells per day with the purpose of item being you could cast a spell again without needing to prepare it again but were still constrained to the same number of spells per day.
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Yeah, pearls of power give you another casting, beyond your normal limit. They were doing that in the game for 25 years before spontaneous spellcasters were added to the rules.
(The Black Pearl and Gold Pearl were magic items in the 1975 D&D Supplement II: Blackmoor that allowed casters an additional casting depending on class; spontaneous casters didn't come along until D&D 3rd Edition in 2000.)
With a pearl of power, are you supposed to be able to recast the spell immediately, or do you have to use a standard action to regain the spell, and another to cast the spell?
With a pearl of power, are you supposed to be able to recast the spell immediately, or do you have to use a standard action to regain the spell, and another to cast the spell?
It's restored as if you hadn't cast it. In other words, you've memorized it again, and can cast it once more whenever you want, so yep, you've got to do the actual casting part again too, not just the recall.
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There's no need to flag this. Not only are the rules clear but I'm unaware of people having been confused by this before. The Pathfinder community is really large, and the (few) developers can hardly be expected to step in every time to tell GMs that their players are wrong, much less to tell players that their GMs are wrong. Although GMs should rule responsibly, they are the authority at a table. That authority doesn't mean that everything they say is temporary until the players can check with a higher power, and if the developers even started meddling with the power dynamics of gaming groups then the demands for their clarifications would explode.
As it so happens, your GM is running the magic item in a ... counter-intuitive manner. It sounds strange that the magic item returns your spell as if it hadn't been cast but still counts toward your spells per day because there is no such rule in the book.
See if he's open to a discussion. Point out that his magic item isn't actually comparable. If he's simply interpreting and not making a ruling, then the new facts might change his mind. But there are GMs who take specific issue with the ability of Pearls of Power to grant a wizard rather Sorceror-like advantages, and increasing their price or removing them from play isn't that uncommon.
Your GM needs to do some more reading. He is obviously going to realise his error. If after reading this and continues to believe what he does, you must prepare yourself for Moe moronic decisions.
Got to agree with the consensus (and Sean favouriting Elamdri's first post brought a smile to my face): to all intents and purposes you have not cast the spell.
If your GM continues to argue the toss, try this bit of logic on him. 5th level Wizard, 15 Intelligence, prepares Fireball as his only 3rd level spell, has a 3rd level Pearl of Power.
Wizard casts Fireball.
Wizard uses Pearl of Power.
Can he cast Fireball, now?
If the answer is "no", what advantage does the Pearl of Power grant him?
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I am having a hard time believing anyone could read the item and come up with what he did.
Perhaps he is a "magic is to powerful as it is" kind of person. Which is something I can understand. Even so rather then trying to be sneaky and change how the item is meant to work he really should just be upfront about it and just ban it honestly.
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No, he said explicitly the item doesn't grant extra spells per day with the purpose of item being you could cast a spell again without needing to prepare it again but were still constrained to the same number of spells per day.
There may be some confusion in language here, so to clarify.
Let's say you have 4 spell slots/day and prepare Magic Missile, Charm Person, Enlarge Person, and Color Spray.
If you also get a Pearl of Power, you still only have 4 spell slots/day, with those spells slotted for the day.
After casting any of those spells, you may activate the Pearl of Power to recall the spell, allowing you to cast it one more time per day. Essentially, you have 4 spell slots/day of memorized spells, but 5/day of spells you can cast, where 1 of those is a repeat of one of the spells you've prepared for the day.
There may be some confusion in language here, so to clarify.
Let's say you have 4 spell slots/day and prepare Magic Missile, Charm Person, Enlarge Person, and Color Spray.
If you also get a Pearl of Power, you still only have 4 spell slots/day, with those spells slotted for the day.
After casting any of those spells, you may activate the Pearl of Power to recall the spell, allowing you to cast it one more time per day. Essentially, you have 4 spell slots/day of memorized spells, but 5/day of spells you can cast, where 1 of those is a repeat of one of the spells you've prepared for the day.
According to him you could not activate the pearl of power to cast another spell. However, according to him you could cast 3 of those and use the pearl to recast one you had cast previously but then you would also lose out on the 4th prepared spell.
There's no need to flag this. Not only are the rules clear but I'm unaware of people having been confused by this before. The Pathfinder community is really large, and the (few) developers can hardly be expected to step in every time to tell GMs that their players are wrong, much less to tell players that their GMs are wrong. Although GMs should rule responsibly, they are the authority at a table. That authority doesn't mean that everything they say is temporary until the players can check with a higher power, and if the developers even started meddling with the power dynamics of gaming groups then the demands for their clarifications would explode.
As it so happens, your GM is running the magic item in a ... counter-intuitive manner. It sounds strange that the magic item returns your spell as if it hadn't been cast but still counts toward your spells per day because there is no such rule in the book.
See if he's open to a discussion. Point out that his magic item isn't actually comparable. If he's simply interpreting and not making a ruling, then the new facts might change his mind. But there are GMs who take specific issue with the ability of Pearls of Power to grant a wizard rather Sorceror-like advantages, and increasing their price or removing them from play isn't that uncommon.
Any rules that he changes and let's us know in advance is never questioned. So, I don't need any schoolin' on the role of the player or GM. If I can't otherwise count on what's in the book and in my sheet then playing is simply a frustrating experience not worth having. If he were to say, "yeah, I'm changing how this works" that'd be fine to. But, to say this is how it's been all along is entirely different.
According to him you could not activate the pearl of power to cast another spell. However, according to him you could cast 3 of those and use the pearl to recast one you had cast previously but then you would also lose out on the 4th prepared spell.There may be some confusion in language here, so to clarify.
Let's say you have 4 spell slots/day and prepare Magic Missile, Charm Person, Enlarge Person, and Color Spray.
If you also get a Pearl of Power, you still only have 4 spell slots/day, with those spells slotted for the day.
After casting any of those spells, you may activate the Pearl of Power to recall the spell, allowing you to cast it one more time per day. Essentially, you have 4 spell slots/day of memorized spells, but 5/day of spells you can cast, where 1 of those is a repeat of one of the spells you've prepared for the day.
Then yeah, he's wrong.
With a pearl of power, are you supposed to be able to recast the spell immediately, or do you have to use a standard action to regain the spell, and another to cast the spell?
I think the second one is correct. The default method for activating any magic item is the command word, which is a standard action.
The runestones are the equivalent but are too expensive. You're better off buying rods of echoing spell.
5th level runestone is 50k but a rod of echoing spell (1-6) is 54k and gives you 3/day.
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Would you all say the same about the Magus spell recall ability?Off the top of my head, yes. The Magus is exchanging one or more points from his Arcane Pool for additional spell castings.
Also, while Magus wasn't listed in the PoP description, they would be able to benefit from one, as well. Which is good for the Kensai, since they give up Spell Recall.
The major difference here is that the standard Magus doesn't have to pull out a magic item to do the recall. Also the pearl can't replicate the real niceness that Improved Spell Recall is.
But then again by going Kensai, you've made the conscious decision to de-emphasize your magic, especially if you're layering Bladebound on top of it.
True, there are trade-offs. But then, aren't there always trade-offs?
And, yes, my Magus is Kensai and Bladebound. He trades off having to buy PoPs against not having to buy his primary weapon and enhancements thereof.
The runestones are the equivalent but are too expensive. You're better off buying rods of echoing spell.
5th level runestone is 50k but a rod of echoing spell (1-6) is 54k and gives you 3/day.
Then again, the rod requires a hand, plus it increases your casting time...
True, but it's in a core book so I can use it, unlike society runestones, which unfortunately I can't!
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Would you all say the same about the Magus spell recall ability? And, if you would please, hit the FAQ button. What if we're wrong?
This is the kind of thing that shouldn't be cluttering up the FAQ. The number of people who believe what your GM believes is so few that it doesn't effect the game in general. FAQ should be fore things that a lot of people disagree over the meaning.
You can't expect to get a FAQ response on this issue anytime soon, but if you went to JJ's Asking anything thread you should get a response that your GM should be happy to follow.
Because they're "prepared casters", once a spell is prepared, it's ready to go. Spells per day for prepared casters isn't how many they can cast but how many they can prepare. Read the description of the item carefully: "...The spell is then prepared again, just as if it had not been cast..." Even if he's saying that you've already used a "cast per day" to cast it the first time, it's prepared "as if it had not been cast", thus "as if you hadn't used that spell per day". So he's wrong on all fronts.
Technically, the wizard class description specifies the limit as a limit on casting. That said, since after using the pearl you've essentially never cast the spell, the GM is in error here. Given how expensive the pearl is, I'm having trouble not questioning the GM's motives on this. A pearl is nice, but it's at best on par with other items that share its cost--which is as it should be. Nerfing the pearl in the way described would make them too expensive for anybody to use.
I do find it kind of weird that the Runestones of Power are twice as expensive as PoP. In a game where I allowed both types of items I think I'd make the two items match in price.
The idea behind pricing the runestones higher is that it costs an action to recall a spent spell with a PoP, while the runestone is available from the get-go.
Personally, I don't think this advantage is worth doubling the price, either.