I don't believe you can take both, unfortunately. Pretty sure, at least.
Doesn't matter, you still can't take two archetypes that replace the same ability.
Correct, but if you never reach the level to replace the ability, then you are not taking archtypes that replace the same feature.
Archetypes are not a cafeteria style buffet, they are all or nothing, so if two archetypes replace the same benefit at level 20, they are incompatible at level 1.
They are not simply substitutions, they are entire classes, so that rule about how more than one archetype stacks exists for no other reason than to say "no" to exactly what you are suggesting.
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Like the people above me said, you can only take multiple archetypes if they don't replace the same abilities. Of course if this is a private campaign, you can always discuss these things with your GM - for example if your archetypes overlap in just one replaced ability (but otherwise make sense together) you could perhaps convince your GM (or let your player) take both archetypes, but on the overlapping replace they can only take one archetype's ability.
This is not by the rules, but it is something i would probably allow my players in a private campaign if they have good character background reasons for wanting both archetypes and if this would not make the character more powerful than otherwise. Straying from the rules can sometimes be good for roleplay, but you have to take it upon yourself to balance things out. If you are confident you can do that, go for it.
I would also suggest that any player who wishes to play a character with multiple archetypes copies their basic class description in a document and replaces all the replaced the abilities with those of their archetypes, essentially reassembling the whole class. It's a few minutes of work and it saves you a ton of time looking through all the replaced stuff every time.
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I have a different question about multiple archetypes. Would it be possible, either in or out of PFS, to combine the Magus's Soul Forger and Spellblade archetypes? The only overlap that I see is that Soul Forger changes spellstrike's requirements by only allowing it with the bonded weapon, while Spellblade takes it away (obviously in this case it would be removed).
The way I see this working is that my Magus would get the bonded weapon and force athame but no spell strike, still a decent dual wield, would still be able to use the spell combat ability as the athame doesn't use up the open hand and he would still be wielding his bonded weapon.
Also, since he is dual wielding but can still use the dagger hand for casting, would he be able to use two weapon fighting and spell combat? And if so, would the -2 for each stack, so you would get something like -1/-1/spell at 5th level, or are they both considered the same penalty, so you would be at +1/+1/spell at 5th level?
On another train of thought, are those Magus archetypes that only have diminished spellcasting in common compatible? For example, could a Bladed Scarf Dancer also be a Myrmidarch, Soul Forger, or Skirner?
I have a different question about multiple archetypes. Would it be possible, either in or out of PFS, to combine the Magus's Soul Forger and Spellblade archetypes? The only overlap that I see is that Soul Forger changes spellstrike, while Spellblade takes it away (obviously in this case it would be removed).No, if there is any overlap you cannot take both.A rule to which there are, of course, exceptions:
The qinggong monk is an exception because they get to choose which of the abilities they actually swap out, as they come to them. Two qinggong monks are not apt to look alike, or swap out the same abilities as one another, except by chance.
Still, if the monk takes another archetype, then the qinggong monk is restricted and may NOT choose any of the abilities the other archetype swaps out as one of its abilities to alter. This way, the two archetypes do not conflict with one another.
My question is about using the Eldritch scion magus and the bladebound magus.
The Eldritch scion changes all class abilities based on intelligence to be based on charisma. It gives you an Eldritch pool at 1st level (this replaces arcane pool).
The bladebound arcane pool is changed from 1/2 magus level to 1/3 magus level.
This is the only overlapping ability for the archetypes.
My question is can you do both considering that the Eldritch pool ability states that "abilities that modify arcane pool also modify Eldritch pool?
My question is about using the Eldritch scion magus and the bladebound magus.
The Eldritch scion changes all class abilities based on intelligence to be based on charisma. It gives you an Eldritch pool at 1st level (this replaces arcane pool).
The bladebound arcane pool is changed from 1/2 magus level to 1/3 magus level.
This is the only overlapping ability for the archetypes.My question is can you do both considering that the Eldritch pool ability states that "abilities that modify arcane pool also modify Eldritch pool?
A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature.
One replaces arcane pool. One alters arcane pool. So, I'm afraid it wouldn't work.
My turn for a confirmation.
Planning to run Dhampir Inquisitor.
Archetypes Desired:
-Infiltrator-swaps out stern gaze, monster lore, track, & discern lies
-Preacher- swaps out solo tactics and optional choice to swap teamwork feats for uses of archetypes special
-Kinslayer- swaps out destruction judgement and optional choice to replace teamwork feat with brand judgement modifiers.
I assumed this should work similar to the qinggong monk as the feature modified, teamwork feats, is optional modification and you must choose one of the three presented options, opting for all raw Inquis, all Kin, all Preach, or a mixed bag. Is this a flawed idea?
My turn for a confirmation.
Planning to run Dhampir Inquisitor.
Archetypes Desired:
-Infiltrator-swaps out stern gaze, monster lore, track, & discern lies-Preacher- swaps out solo tactics and optional choice to swap teamwork feats for uses of archetypes special
-Kinslayer- swaps out destruction judgement and optional choice to replace teamwork feat with brand judgement modifiers.
I assumed this should work similar to the qinggong monk as the feature modified, teamwork feats, is optional modification and you must choose one of the three presented options, opting for all raw Inquis, all Kin, all Preach, or a mixed bag. Is this a flawed idea?
I agree, the Preacher and Kinslayer archetypes should follow the same process as the qinggong monk to combine. Each time you would normally gain a teamwork feat, you can choose to take one of the following: a teamwork feat, greater brand, or gain another use of the Determination ability.
Nothing in any of those 3 require you to swap out or alter the same abilities, they just open up alternatives.
Note: If you do take a teamwork feat, you have given up solo tactics, so you would actually need someone else in the party with the feat to make it worthwhile.
Actually it's not as clear cut as people are presenting.
Note the FAQ:
"Archetype: If an archetype replaces a class ability with a more specific version of that ability (or one that works similarly to the replaced ability), does the archetype's ability count as the original ability for the purpose of rules that improve the original ability?
It depends on how the archetype's ability is worded. If the archetype ability says it works like the standard ability, it counts as that ability. If the archetype's ability requires you to make a specific choice for the standard ability, it counts as that ability. Otherwise, the archetype ability doesn't count as the standard ability.
Pathfinder Design Team, 07/12/13"
my quote from the other thread:
There was an FAQ that stated that an archetype ability that states it is the original ability is still the original ability. How far does this concept extend? Does it extend to other archetypes?
Specifically:
Question 1: wrote:
If an archetype demands you choose one option of a class ability can you still replace that class ability with another archetype?
For example: If I take a wizard archetype that states I must choose an item for my arcane bond, can I still choose a different wizard archetype that replaces my arcane bond?Second example: If I take a fighter archetype that states my weapon training 1 must be with a specific weapon can I take another archetype that replaces weapon training 1?
And:
Question 2: wrote:
If an archetype changes an ability and states this change is still the original ability can the altered ability be replaced by another archetype?
First Example: If I take a barbarian archetype that alters rage and states it is rage can I take another barbarian archetype that replaces rage?Second Example: If I take a bard archetype that alters bardic performance and states it counts as bardic performance may I take another archetype that replaces bardic performance all together?
You can FAQ this or the original post in the other thread.
My only issue with the Qing Gong Monk Archetype is we have the same case with the cross-blood sorcerer, and they can't have nice things.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Oh ok, I looked for something that said you can't take two archtypes even if you never reach the level that replaces the same class feature. Is it implied?
The archetypes change the class, so once changed by one the other archetype can't find the abilities it wanted in the class. They both change or alter the same abilities, so no they don't stack.
The only overlap that I see is that Soul Forger changes spellstrike's requirements by only allowing it with the bonded weapon, while Spellblade takes it away (obviously in this case it would be removed).
They change or alter the same ability, so no they don't stack.
It gives you an Eldritch pool at 1st level (this replaces arcane pool).
The bladebound arcane pool is changed from 1/2 magus level to 1/3 magus level.
They change or alter the same ability, so no they don't stack.
here's a question, now this is a technology evolution question. if i start out as a gnome gunslinger (experimental gunsmith), then through role playing/ campaigning i discover more advanced technology. could i start taking classes in the tech-slinger archetype.... now there is overlap so it would conflict with the "no archetype stacking" rule but to me if a gnome is experimenting with tech then discovers more advanced weapons could he not then transcend to the next class archetype. unless, to make things just easier on everyone (including the GM) i could just recreate my character starting at the level which my black-powder age character discovered the new tech. what do y'all think?
This is really something that you will need to discuss with your GM. I will point out that the PFS sheet eventually opens up the Techslinger as a legal option. It also allows a free retraining of an otherwise legal character.
here's a question, now this is a technology evolution question. if i start out as a gnome gunslinger (experimental gunsmith), then through role playing/ campaigning i discover more advanced technology. could i start taking classes in the tech-slinger archetype.... now there is overlap so it would conflict with the "no archetype stacking" rule but to me if a gnome is experimenting with tech then discovers more advanced weapons could he not then transcend to the next class archetype. unless, to make things just easier on everyone (including the GM) i could just recreate my character starting at the level which my black-powder age character discovered the new tech. what do y'all think?
If you wanted to do it "by the book", then you would need to retrain into the Tech Slinger archetype, which takes non-trivial amounts of money and time.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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gnome gunslinger (experimental gunsmith), then through role playing/ campaigning i discover more advanced technology. could i start taking classes in the tech-slinger archetype
You can't take two archetypes if they replace, alter, adjust, enhance, enchant, affect, effect, add, remove, modify, kiss, hug, slap, star at, or otherwise mention the same class features.
If they clash, you can't.
You could retain from the old one to the new one.