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The op wants a character that can take the heat off the party that is not that squishy. The 2 builds i linked would service for that as a decent defender of sorts. Though if he wants to go completely RP then a high int dex rogue would be best since if there is ever combat he can run away from or hide from it and high int means butt loads of skills since rogue has the best amount of skill points.
All nice suggestions.
But bear in mind that the equipment restriction is what I can walk in with, it's not a restriction on what I can make, buy or especially find.
A side-note of this setting is that since NOBODY adventures, and this used to be a more heroic world, magical items are slightly over-represented once you DO go outside the beaten track.
The son of a hero might have taken his +4 sword to fight CR 1/2 spiders, and have been killed by them because he was made of suck.
So I'm not going to go for a build that is actually built to not use stuff I think.
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I'd advocate druid, too. You get decent stats, weapons, and armor (enough to be sturdy and contribute), while at the same time getting an excellent (at lvl 1) animal companion AND a couple druid spells each day. You could invest in riding your mount, but I'd warn you that if you do ever get to lvl 4, you probably wouldn't do it a whole lot thereafter.
>my bard is now in serious risk of dying
Advice aside, never say never. Think outside the box and lie your head off! The survival game is fun anyway and you've got the skills to pay the bills.
In any case sorcerer with the silvan bloodline is the thing that's been on my mind lately. Using sorc/wiz spells to buff an animal companion sounds fun.
Other than that just pick something that looks fun, level 1 isn't something you need to power game. It's part of character development, think of someone cool you want to be and roll with it.
All nice suggestions.
But bear in mind that the equipment restriction is what I can walk in with, it's not a restriction on what I can make, buy or especially find.
A side-note of this setting is that since NOBODY adventures, and this used to be a more heroic world, magical items are slightly over-represented once you DO go outside the beaten track.
The son of a hero might have taken his +4 sword to fight CR 1/2 spiders, and have been killed by them because he was made of suck.
So I'm not going to go for a build that is actually built to not use stuff I think.
Ah but you see, the Monk can have a change of heart, the aristocrat does use weapons and stuff no problem, and the rogue can play with nothing but use a lot.
If you are looking for a class to rp, then I suggest picking a class that you can rp... Circular logic, maybe.
Realistically, a rogue with a decent int is best for this situation. With a wide breadth of skills you can do anything you want just about. But the bard can BE anything. Fighter, healer, caster, expert, or a nice blend if any or all of them.
If you are looking for a class to rp, then I suggest picking a class that you can rp... Circular logic, maybe.
Realistically, a rogue with a decent int is best for this situation. With a wide breadth of skills you can do anything you want just about. But the bard can BE anything. Fighter, healer, caster, expert, or a nice blend if any or all of them.
Hence my reason for making a bard to begin with, it would be kinda cheesy to come right back with another one.
I'm mostly trying to decide between Human Druid with a large cat familiar and a Human Paladin with cleave
Is it an E1 Campaign or an actual Perma-Level 1 Campaign?
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If you are looking for a class to rp, then I suggest picking a class that you can rp... Circular logic, maybe.
Realistically, a rogue with a decent int is best for this situation. With a wide breadth of skills you can do anything you want just about. But the bard can BE anything. Fighter, healer, caster, expert, or a nice blend if any or all of them.
Hence my reason for making a bard to begin with, it would be kinda cheesy to come right back with another one.
I'm mostly trying to decide between Human Druid with a large cat familiar and a Human Paladin with cleave
OR you could hide behind the pile of dead bards!
Is it an E1 Campaign or an actual Perma-Level 1 Campaign?
In an E1 campaign you would still acquire xp, which could be used to buy feats and stuff, right?
So it's a perma-level 1 campaign, we get no xp, period.
It will be possible to change this at some point.
Paladin is excellent for be survivable.
Paladin is excellent for be survivable.
He would be more survivable if he had Divine Grace or Lay on hands at level 1
true, he dont get much of nada at level 1
What about the cleric, with the channel and the spells?
this is a ten point build right?
An elf:
12 Str 14 Dex 10 con 12 int 12 wis 12 cha.
Simple weapon would be a mace.
you could always use longsword and bow later.
youd get two spells, channel and some domain abilities.... thats about as stacked as you can get without making another bard.
I would make a sneaky bastard, and skip anything that could cause you harm. High perception, high stealth, and high cowardice. Class doesn't matter too much here, and you'll probably be a halfling.
If you can, be a witch with the slumber hex. Stealth won't be a class skill for you, but a cat familiar gives you +3 to stealth so it fixes itself.
With 10PB, after racials and not dumping any stats, you can be Str 8, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 12.
If you want to dump stats, you can do Str 6, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 9 or something like that.
For your stealth mod, you have 1 rank +2 dex, +4 size +3 cat familiar = +10.
For Perception, you have 1 rank +(0,1) wis +2 racial +2 alertness (familiar)=+5 or +6.
So just sneak by enemies, and be the sandman if you can via Slumber hex.
Even if you can't be a witch, I'd still pick something sneaky, maybe ranger or rogue.
It is sounding like getting armor will be difficult. This gets in the way of designing a decent tank.
With that in mind I might be inclined to go with a Dwarf Barbarian and add the toughness feat. You could start with around 19 hit points, including your favoured class bonus. Also, the save bonuses dwarves get will be helpful. The barbarian's fast movement combines well with a dwarf. Also, the STR bonus from raging is huge in a 10-point game.
I'd go 14 STR 16 CON 12 DEX 10 INT 14 WIS 5 CHA (with racial modifiers).
Another way to go would be a Dwarven cleric, again with the toughness feat. Your HP will not be as great, probably 14 or so, but your healing abilities will make up for it. I'd take the travel domain, again for the move bonus. Sadly clerics are a MAD class which makes it tricky for a 10-point buy. I'd go 12 STR 16 CON 9 DEX 10 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA (with racial modifiers). You could tone down the CON a bit if you wanted to put more points into CHA for channeling or to buy off that DEX penalty and add 2 points to INT for an extra skill rank. This is a much weaker character than the barbarian of course, but the healing abilities might make up for it. Your skills will be very poor with this kind of character. Mind you, since you already have a cleric in your party this may be moot.
Peet
Personally, I have noted that Barbarians tend to suck up lots of healing, but get hit constantly because of their crappy armor and usually grabbing 2 handed weapons.
If it were me, I'd take a straight up Paladin. Your armor check penalty would suck, but wooden shields are cheap. If your DM allows traits, grab Armor Expert and Highlander.
Paladins are simply more durable than any other class I know of. It's what they are made for. Plus, the Armor Expert and Highlander traits combine to form a deceptively sneaky character.
If you decide on human, just grab Dodge and Toughness starting out, that way you aren't stuck with a particular weapon from the get go. Later on when you find something nice, take Weapon Focus. Build in response to the game environment. For example, if you find you need to dish out a little more damage, take Bastard sword prof and use a shield, later on you could bash with the shield if your stats are high enough. Optionally, just go 2 handed with the Bastard Sword to deal more damage sans shield. Either way, it's flexible. See what I mean about responsiveness to environment?
Avoid the Monk, the class is too dependent on high stats. Matter of fact, so is the Rogue in a way, since all skills use a stat sooner or later.
Might think about taking a Fighter instead, they are very flexible what with essentially getting a feat at every level. You can mimic a Paladin with grabbing the 3 saving throw pump feats. A Cleric does a great job at this as well, but you have to decide on having a high Strength (armor and melee) or a high Dexterity (stealth and ranged). Traditional clerics take the former, but be sure on grabbing Lightning Reflexes to compensate.
If your DM would allow it, ask if you can take an Orc. Grab Grudge Fighter as your feat, then take Mindlessly Cruel as one of your 2 traits. +1 to attack +2 damage as soon as some poor fool takes a swipe at you, even if he misses. Later on, take Dodge, Ironhide (its an orc feat) and Shield Focus to ensure your opponent misses. Not all of that is from the core stuff, but enough is that the trick is still viable. And it's practical, since most of the feats are going to be in constant use anyway.
I forgot Smite is the only really nice thing Paladins get at Level 1...
Maybe go Stealthy Fighter or Rogue?
OR you could hide behind the pile of dead bards!If you are looking for a class to rp, then I suggest picking a class that you can rp... Circular logic, maybe.
Realistically, a rogue with a decent int is best for this situation. With a wide breadth of skills you can do anything you want just about. But the bard can BE anything. Fighter, healer, caster, expert, or a nice blend if any or all of them.
Hence my reason for making a bard to begin with, it would be kinda cheesy to come right back with another one.
I'm mostly trying to decide between Human Druid with a large cat familiar and a Human Paladin with cleave
Lol I've seen that one.
Alas, my bard is dead.
My party's infernal blood sorcerer had a dream in which a devil instructed him on how to make a summoning circle, which he made and summoned a contract devil, who offered us a deal. Saving my bard's life, in exchange for her service in the afterlife, assuming she agree.
Only thing is, she didn't agree.
I still could've survived by rolling 5+ on the save, the cleric had found a way to boost my saves quite a bit. But instead, I rolled a one and died.
So, now I'm making a new character.
No traits, but within reason, alternate racial traits from APG are in, as are feats and even archetypes, but only from APG.
I don't like dwarves, and my GM doesn't want elves at the moment, as they are exceedingly rare. non-core book races are right out.
Further, none of us feel monks are appropriate, my GM doesn't want me to step on the cleric or sorcerer players toes, so no sorcerer or cleric. One of the newbie players is playing a rogue (poorly) and I'd feel like a jackass if I came along and did the same exact thing as him, only well, usurping his position, so no rogue. I don't want to come right back with a new bard.
I see you are beginning to see a pattern. I'm pretty much down to Druid, Wizard, Paladin, Fighter, Ranger and Barbarian. (and ranger is iffy since the party already has one also)
I'm currently considering.
Human druid with an animal companion
Human longbow-wielding wizard (probably conjurer)
Human melee paladin
Halfling ranged paladin
Don't worry too much about stepping on the rogue's toes. There are many types of rogue, and if your friend is playing one type you can always play a different one. Is he a trapfinding rogue? A social rogue? Even with all the skill ranks rogues get there are even more rogue skills, and you can only concentrate on so many. So you could look at the skills that he has and pick something else.
That much being said, if you are using the APG you might want to consider a cavalier. They get an animal companion (their mount) and their other abilities are interesting. A halfling or gnome cavalier can actually work quite well, since their mount is medium and can fit in places the party goes.
that sounds like it'd be a lot more fun perma-level 7, where all the classes are relatively even and all are viable.
My advice to you is to use a hal-orc barbarian with that limitless rage ability (Where you sunder for a round of rage), sink all your points into dex/str/con and just take a worthy profession.
Grab two swords and a shield, depending on the situation. You should do fine that way
Halfling Druid
Str 8, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 10
Alt Racial Traits: Halfling Jinx, Outrider
Feat: Combat Expertise
You are the debuffer of the group: Jinxes, Entangle spells, and get yourself a wolf w/trip. If you ever do get to gain levels your feats reflect training in how to make your opponents fall down, get knocked over, etc. I figure halfling over human just for the defensive bonuses; since you won't get armor for a while it'll help save on healing.
level 1 sorcerers summoning contract devils.
dude, the GM can play with all sorts of wild stuff but wants to keep you guys at level 1 and limited to what you can play, but will throw the kitchen sink at you....
I'd consider another option. Not playing.
Limit options, don't play something someone else is playing, kill your character way beyond your control, then try and force you into a devil contract.
Might as well just throw dice out of the equation and sit there and listen to the story telling.
I'd just go with a barbarian with a club and call him bam bam.
With an APG archetype you could make a completely different bard....
But really.... the DM wants to bring in the super powerful world of bad guys, and you cant even start with a sword...
To be fair, the contract devil as supposed to be a possible way out (with a pricetag attached) it wasn't an encounter as such.
Ok, so GM has agreed to elf, and opened up the options in the advanced players guide, so traits from there are in, as are alternate racial feats.
How good would an elven wizard be, using divination(foresight)?
Stats:
str. 7
dex 14
con 10
int 18
wis 8
cha 12
I'd take a ring as an arcane bond. Elven reflexes and mathematical prodigy as traits.
I'd probably take darkvision as an alternate racial trait, and possibly fleet footed (losing keen senses and weapon familiarity)
My feat would be either Improved Initiative or Toughness (or Point blank shot, if I decide to keep weapon familiarity and use a longbow)
Advice? Is this a crap idea?
I get that. Which was why I wanted a druid originally.
But two things happened to make me reconsider.
1. The party has found a massively OP mace and armor, which the party ranger has taken charge of, turning him into a melee character. And even if I WERE to come along with a better melee fighter, there's about a 0% chance that this suspicious lot would trust any newcomer with their super-loot.
2. I realized that I thought wizards were much cooler than druids. :-P
Most of your party is ranged so if you're at all concerned about stepping on other peoples' toes I'd veer off the Point Blank Shot route for now...unless you'll be the "ray" wizard.
If you're going rays get point blank shot. When you FINALLY break free of all the restrictions get yourself a flask of alchemical whatever to augment your ray (ray of frost, acid splash, burning hands, whatever). Then consider adding in Arcane Strike to the mix...and weapon focus - ray, and...
...
I've gotten ahead of myself. Since currently you're stuck at level 1 the build you have is fine. I'd say drop Int down to 16 and Con to 12, but otherwise you're fine. Improved Initiative is better than Toughness IMO for a ranged spellcaster - if you go first and have other more viable targets for your enemies, namely the rest of the party, you'll be hit less often and thus not much use for extra HP but to ensure you ARE going first, Improved Initiative.
Rats i'm too late to the thread this game sounds to me like the perfect reason to play a fighter or paladin that wields a heavy spiked shield as a two handed weapon.
If you are playing an elf wizard with an arcane bond, you can normally start with a masterwork weapon as your bond, and you don't have to pay for it. It sounds like your GM might no allow that, but if he does I would take a crossbow as your item. You could also go longbow, but I think having 7 STR is a problem for that. At low levels a wizard kind of needs some backup plan to casting spells. Personally I like playing spellcasters who don't have to cast spells to be useful.
I agree with the suggestion about raising CON, though you could also dump WIS by one more point to get two of the buy points you need.
I completely agree Peet, I'm trying to find some way to work it all out.
I'm not gonna use a crossbow as my bonded item though, too many things that can go wrong with a crossbow, too many places that wouldn't let me enter with it on general principle, etc.
I'm sortof settling on either:
str. 7 dex 14 con 12 int 16 wis 10 cha 12
or
str. 7 dex 14 con 12 int 18 wis 7 cha 12
I kindof like the idea of not being super-unwise (my bard was, it didn't work out so well), and I like having a bit of charisma and con.
Still, either of those would be fine I think
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I may be late to the party but I would go with ranger. Lots of skill points, good fighting at range or close up, track could be handy....
14 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 12 wis, 7 cha.
pick up a 2-handed martial weapon like a greatsword or something with reach, and a longbow...and hope to find a good composite bow asap. I personally would go with a reach weapon so you can attack from the second rank.
2. I realized that I thought wizards were much cooler than druids. :-P
Of course, with Druids you can make stoner jokes all day long....
Core Races, Core Classes, level 1, No Traits.
Erggghhh
well, we have unlocked APG traits at least.
Fake Healer, if I did what you suggest, I would be ripping off the party ranger, pretty much point for point. :-P
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well, we have unlocked APG traits at least.
Fake Healer, if I did what you suggest, I would be ripping off the party ranger, pretty much point for point. :-P
You could take different skills to maximize party usage and build to be whatever that ranger doesn't do well. Rangers, even at first level, can be very different with feat/skill/equipment change ups.
Still, I think a wizard would be more fun.
Y'know what I think? Wizard + familiar instead of Arcane Bond FTW.
Hear me out. Take a crow (one language) and now you have multiple bases covered. Your GM will love it since it shows some rp on your part and there's a million threads about how to use them properly.
In a level-1 game you'll get as much utility out of a familiar as you will a bonded object. Take Ant Haul and throw it on the thing so it can carry some decent weight; maybe a nice Enlarge Person to share with it as well. Don't freak out about how they're made of glass or they're a drain of spells. If nothing else it sits on your shoulder and, with one language that it can speak, it can tell you what you missed on perception checks and therefore double your chances at those.
Core Races, Core Classes, level 1, No Traits.
Erggghhh
What's wrong with that? I think Elves make wonderful Wizards, Gnomes and Halflings great Sorcerers, and Dwarves decent Clerics. Admittedly, I don't like half orcs or half elves at all. Funny thing is, I notice that a lot of people end up playing the classic race/class mixes, and I think that's because they are classic for good reason: They're popular.