I had the same problem with Jade Regent. Instead of an opportunity to play eastern inspired characters, it's Sandpointers going to tour the east.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, it starts in Taldor, so you can always play the sons of disgraced huscarls of the emperors Ulfen Guard. ;)
But I can tell you already what James Jacobs is going to say about the topic, which is that Taldor as a starting location is completely interchangeable with any other place. Which he already has said in a few other threads.
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The first adventure is actually built so that the start point is relatively modular. Reign of Winter takes place across a wide range of regions; travel to new realms is a big part of the adventure path. As such, the actual start point doesn't actually really matter much, so the GM can revise the start location to be wherever he wants.
But we had to pick one location for the baseline, and we chose Taldor.
In any event, more information will be in the adventure itself!
Cold-themed adventures generally feature cold-themed foes to vanquish and take stuff from. Fire themed good guys going in and smiting their frozen foes seems pretty sensible to me! ^_____^
|
Creative Director
|
With some finagling, you could have the party 'meet-up' and come from different parts of Golarion?
As much as you could in any adventure, I guess.
But the Taldor section is relatively significant, so having that section be a separate set of encounters for each PC before they meet up would require you to probably run a full-length session for each PC before the first full-attendance session.
Again... there'll be more details soon!
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think Taldor could use some love anyway. I mean, the place is falling to pieces, and if I were a peasant there, I might enjoy bettering my condition in some northern land, stopping evil, looting it, and then returning to Taldor rich enough to buy a barony (I mean, Northern savages are amusing to visit, but who would want to LIVE among them.. perish the thought ;))
You could be a member of the Ulfen Guard.
I run everything in a Pathfinder's Forgotten Realms, so if you don't like where it starts out. Change it to somewhere more to your liking thats what I do. It might be a little work, but if you have time to worry about it, you have time to commit to adjusting it to your tastes.There's so much nice stuff out there for the North already. I really am looking forward to it. I will likely set mine somewhere in the Silvermarches, or Waterdeep.
I run everything in a Pathfinder's Forgotten Realms, so if you don't like where it starts out. Change it to somewhere more to your liking thats what I do. It might be a little work, but if you have time to worry about it, you have time to commit to adjusting it to your tastes.There's so much nice stuff out there for the North already. I really am looking forward to it. I will likely set mine somewhere in the Silvermarches, or Waterdeep.
Indeed (it's often the benefit of running Paizo's APs outside of Golarion) - it can be easier to change things to suit your needs.
I, too, run the APs in the Forgotten Realms. If I ever figure what to do about #5 and decide to buy this AP sometime in the far future, I would consider starting it in Rashemen, Narfell, or the High Dale in the east. I've always seen Irrisen as being a perfect fit into Sossal (which, to this day, has virtually nothing written about it). Plus, starting it in the above lands helps reduce a lot of the wacky jumping around that Paizo weirdly seems to be partial to in a bunch of their APs.
Developer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The first adventure is actually built so that the start point is relatively modular. Reign of Winter takes place across a wide range of regions; travel to new realms is a big part of the adventure path. As such, the actual start point doesn't actually really matter much, so the GM can revise the start location to be wherever he wants.
But we had to pick one location for the baseline, and we chose Taldor.
In any event, more information will be in the adventure itself!
Thanks for the response Mr. Jacobs. I'm curious if this question came up in your own discussions of how to make this module work?
I certainly understand that you can mix stuff up all you want. When I ran Council of Thieves I set it all in ancient Xin Shalast! Wait, no that would be silly and a lot of extra work.
I guess really it's the combination of a Taldor start point and the fact that you can only take archetypes at first level. I would probably actually allow my players to morph their characters into a different archetype at 3rd or 5th or something based on the new location.
I did the same thing when the APG came out and we were half way through RotRL. Didn't break continuity too much.
The campaign traits for this AP, which will appear in People of the North, as well as in the Reign of Winter Player's Guide, do address this question. Many of them relate to coming from the north or having northern ancestry. And there's no reason someone can't play a northern character who is currently in Taldor.
As has been said, Taldor is the default starting location, but it really can start anywhere. The AP is most definitely north- and winter-themed, but the start location is placed farther to the south for plot reasons - all of which will be fully revealed in the first volume of the AP.
When I read the OP issue the resolution I thought of was the party needs a guide someone from where ever they are going and that could be used as a means to explain a character from a northern culture in the south lands.
It seems like, with some work, the GM could write an alternate beginning set on Earth, with the players having Anachronistic Adventurers classes. Or at least have Anachronistic Adventurers characters show up with the rest of the party when they arrive from the portal (though that might be somewhat complicated, due to the fact that the Anachronistic Adventurers character would not be around for the beginning part of the adventure, though I'm not sure how long that would be, not having read the adventure, of course).
The simplest way to have northern characters pulled in is just to say they'd traveled to Taldor for various reasons, then were recruited for this mission specifically because they actually understood something about far northern winter. If you've suddenly got snow in summer, it would make sense to bring someone who understands something about snow.
I had the same problem with Jade Regent. Instead of an opportunity to play eastern inspired characters, it's Sandpointers going to tour the east.
That's actually the only way Jade Regent could be appealing to me.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Besides, since you are fighting Winter, a Summer themed archetype might be better. Like perhaps from the soon-to-be-released Book of Magic: Insurgency of Summer.
[/shameless plug]
They could always be the ones who were trying to get away from the north...only to have it follow them. :P
Yah. Just like when some of us Canadians get hit by a cold snap in Florida.
Perhaps the adventure starts during the characters' spring break?
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
They could always be the ones who were trying to get away from the north...only to have it follow them. :PYah. Just like when some of us Canadians get hit by a cold snap in Florida.
Perhaps the adventure starts during the characters' spring break?
"Dude, my dad totally owns a time share in Cassomir. Spring break, woo!"
"Dude, my dad totally owns a time share in Cassomir. Spring break, woo!"They could always be the ones who were trying to get away from the north...only to have it follow them. :PYah. Just like when some of us Canadians get hit by a cold snap in Florida.
Perhaps the adventure starts during the characters' spring break?
Better then a time share to Cheliax I guess
Better then a time share to Cheliax I guess"Dude, my dad totally owns a time share in Cassomir. Spring break, woo!"They could always be the ones who were trying to get away from the north...only to have it follow them. :PYah. Just like when some of us Canadians get hit by a cold snap in Florida.
Perhaps the adventure starts during the characters' spring break?
Much better - there's no where near the presence of The Man in Cassomir to mess up a good Spring Fling. Although I'd imagine you could snap up time shares in Cheliax on the cheap these days.
|
Taldor gives you a unique opertunity. They are heavy traders and have outposts just about everywhere in the world. All their prior expansionism has given them a very worldy view of things. You are within your rights as a DM to allow PC's from places like Tien, The Land of the Lindnorn Kings, Ustlav, etc under the excuse that they are serving on a trader's employ working the roads between Taldor and their homeland. Even better, they are dilplomats or traders themselves.
My first idea was to use my Kingmaker group's kingdom as the starting point for this AP (if I were to play it), but this won't fit well with the timeline.
I actually had the same complaint the moment I read the player's guide.
I understand the need to set the scene somewhere, but it's a major disappointment to me to see it start so far from the north, especially with People of the North being release. Fact is, justifying a tribal Kellid or a Snowcaster Elf in southern Taldor is...well, hard.
I actually had the same complaint the moment I read the player's guide.
I understand the need to set the scene somewhere, but it's a major disappointment to me to see it start so far from the north, especially with People of the North being released. Fact is, justifying a tribal Kellid or a Snowcaster Elf in southern Taldor is...well, hard.
There is the consideration that not every PC that begins the AP survives to see the last part of Chapter 1. This is where the snowcaster elves and Kellid/Ulfen types are more likely to be introduced. The People of the North dovetails very well into late Chapter 1 and early Chapter 2 very nicely.
There is the consideration that not every PC that begins the AP survives to see the last part of Chapter 1. This is where the snowcaster elves and Kellid/Ulfen types are more likely to be introduced. The People of the North dovetails very well into late Chapter 1 and early Chapter 2 very nicely.I actually had the same complaint the moment I read the player's guide.
I understand the need to set the scene somewhere, but it's a major disappointment to me to see it start so far from the north, especially with People of the North being released. Fact is, justifying a tribal Kellid or a Snowcaster Elf in southern Taldor is...well, hard.
Hmm, that's good to hear. But then there's the issue that, inevitably, the PCs that don't survive are those who WANT to play cold races, while those who die are indifferent as players. Murphy's laws.
Otherwise, it seems like the options are sitting out or playing a character you have absolutely no attachment to up to that point, neither one of which seems like fun.
There is the consideration that not every PC that begins the AP survives to see the last part of Chapter 1. This is where the snowcaster elves and Kellid/Ulfen types are more likely to be introduced. The People of the North dovetails very well into late Chapter 1 and early Chapter 2 very nicely.I actually had the same complaint the moment I read the player's guide.
I understand the need to set the scene somewhere, but it's a major disappointment to me to see it start so far from the north, especially with People of the North being released. Fact is, justifying a tribal Kellid or a Snowcaster Elf in southern Taldor is...well, hard.
Hmm, that's good to hear. But then there's the issue that, inevitably, the PCs that don't survive are those who WANT to play cold races, while those who die are indifferent as players. Murphy's laws.
Otherwise, it seems like the options are sitting out or playing a character you have absolutely no attachment to up to that point, neither one of which seems like fun.
I think the biggest potential issue is solved fairly easily by the PCs being "in town" when the snowstorm hits the fan, as it were. So long as a sole survivor/survivors returns to town - metagamey a bit, I know, but utterly plausible in many more traditional senses - to gather any other odd sorts before the end of [redacted part of Chapter 1], most PCs shouldn't "lose out" on the raison d'etre of the campaign. If certain character concepts are decided upon by the players feel free to slap the [redacted] upon them once they're good to go and slide the replacements into the roster.
"Fun" for the players also presumes at least some degree of playing along with the basics of the metaplot of the AP as I understand it. Ironically, "cold/winter themed" PCs are probably pooched on the offensive side of the equation...
I have a jadwiga winter witch that I am playing from the start you just have to make sure it is ok with the GM and come up with a backstory for your character to be there.
A kindly "tax collector"? :) <-- thinking of the latter part of Chapter 1.
In the early part, you're "recon" but kindly inclined or somesuch. Winter is pretty brutal on the unprotected ... maybe yer all kind of heart and such.
Actually, while initially upset about this, using the campaign traits and some decent creativity, we found very plausible reasons for what we wanted.
1) the Player who wanted to play a winter witch: We made her a changeling, who are dumped off on someones door step and raised by someone else. Naturally she's a witch at level 1, as she answered the "call", and her familiar found her. She will return to Irrisen to find the true nature of her origin in the AP, she took the warded against witchery trait. Technically with this background, we could make her jadwiga... but changeling is something we have never used before, and... the only thing it really gives her essentially is a free "nails hex"
2) the Barbarian that was going to start out all wintery and Ulfenlike I allowed to take Northern Ancestry, AND Vigilante witch hunter, he's going to be a superstitious barbarian.. which is fun, he's in taldor right now, because he grew up a carney (strong man) after his parents were killed By a White Witch at a very young age, he was sold into slavery and eventually became part of a wandering troupe, rather than sacrificed in a ritual. The superstitious rage fits as his need for revenge against the white witches.
3) One of the players wanted to play an arctic druid Snowcaster Elf. There is no actual difference between a druid and an arctic druid at level 1, so this won't make a difference.
We havent gotten people of the north yet, so dont have stats for a snowcaster elf, yet. But she is taking the restless wayfarer trait, which seems appropriate for an elf, even tho she is from the crown of the world, she happens to be wandering Taldor at the moment just to see what is there.
4) The Spellblade Hexcrafter is playing a half elf and subsequently an half sibling to every single other character in the group (no lie). He's taking the failed winter witch apprentice trait.
This makes a lot of sense for a magus, who gets his training for many different people, He started out as a witch apprentice, things went south and he has pieced together his training ever since, being on the run from his former white witch mistress. He's stolen something from her... although I havent decided what, yet. His mother is the mother of the elven character (and they both know that) and his father is the same man that is both the father of the Barbarian and the Changeling. He's the only one who actually knows all of them are siblings for the moment. the elf knows he's her half brother, the changeling and the barbarian do not yet know they are related.
Cool Backstories, took one night, not too hard.
Nice stuff Pendagast! Sounds like your group worked with each other / played off of each other to knit together a tight group.
Let's hope that you don't have a roster of obit posts soonish...
|
Yes my Winter witch is "kind" up tell he gets back to Irrisen and has to put up with the female Jadwiga again (reason he left). But in Taldor he is an Ice man and keeps ice in his basement to sell in summer and in winter he hunts. I like the idea of him being a tax collector that would fit him as he is Jadwiga Kirana. Thanks Turin!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yes my Winter witch is "kind" up tell he gets back to Irrisen and has to put up with the female Jadwiga again (reason he left). But in Taldor he is an Ice man and keeps ice in his basement to sell in summer and in winter he hunts. I like the idea of him being a tax collector that would fit him as he is Jadwiga Kirana. Thanks Turin!
If I'm helpful in addition to racking up toe tags, all the merrier brad2411!! For several reasons I've taking a strong liking to RoW. Funny .. no victims ... er, players, have poked their heads out of the snow banks for this one ... hrmmmmm....
I really do hope that you and your fellow players *and* GM have a blast in RoW. It's so far a SOLID challenge from my own test runs.
TWO MAGICALLY ENCHANTED KNIVES UP!!
The group we are getting together are from all over the lands. So far we have a Suli Ranger(Guide) from the desert, a Mahrog primitive druid(Pack Lord), a Elf Ranger and a Tiefling Cleric.
The way I am bringing them together is I had them draw up reasons why they are passing through Heldren in their back stories. Of course the town rarely has a lot of visitors (especially uncommon races) will be overwhelmed and then Old Mother Theodora will explain that it is not a coincidence for they all bare the same crescent moon birthmark on their right shoulder. Which just so happens to be on the statue in town.
I will tie this in later on but it is enough to get them started investigating the Massacre Site.
I've a rather interesting twist to go with this. You see, originally I was going to run the group through an adaptation of the classic Night Below campaign (that I've been converting to Pathfinder) when I realized I just didn't have the heart to do this. I mean, I'd run Night Below twice before, once to the end (though I will admit I massively modified it, adding in Ravenloft elements and several side-adventures from Dungeon Magazine starting with "Grog's Tavern" back around issue #4 or so - yeah, I've been doing this for a while ^^). And I've been enjoying my Skype Pathfinder game running three people (and an NPC) through Rise of the Runelords... and realized the Pathfinder world was where I wanted my group.
Thus I've already got an established level 3 to 4 group... that I'm going to introduce to Reign of Winter. After all, who's to say Golarion is the ONLY world threatened by the Queen? Thus a portal is going to open up in my gaming world near Milborne (and I figure the missing apprentice could have been captured by the Winter Witches to interrogate).
My question thus is this: how should I handle clerics of worlds from beyond Golarion? I know in 1st and 2nd edition AD&D when you were on another plane of existence, there was a reduced ability to gain spells. Should this exist here? Or are the divinities able to reach Golarion to bestow prayers upon their worshipers? (I figure as an added bonus, the only way the PCs could get home is to rescue Baba Yaga... assuming at the end they WANT to go home.)
No doubt the Common they speak isn't the same as spoken on Golarion, so there's no shared languages at all without either magic or the use of Linguistics. (BTW, how long does it take for a language learned through Linguistics to actually achieve fluency?)
Tangent101: All of the planets are on the same Material Plane, so the divine access should translate regardless of planet or plane barring an explicit prohibition against it.
Helden doesn't seem very Taldan with its Germanic half-timbered houses and free, independent folk. It would probably fit better in the north of Nirmathas, which is also more convenient for pcs with northerner backgrounds. The occasional reference to Qadira as the southern threat could easily be swapped for Molthune.
I suppose Helden was just plonked into southern Taldor because that's the opposite end of the continent.
I put in Andoran to make it more plausible for pc's to just be traveling through and getting sucked into the story
If you account for the eerie parallels that take place throughout the AP (thusfar), think of Helden as being 'that place where the Ulfen vacationers thought was nice and settled down some centuries ago'. Kind of how there are pockets of various ethnicities that are surprising throughout the real world.
If you want to put it back in the North, then plonking Heldren just to the SE of Grungir forest works well - and still allows for the unseasonal cold angle to work.
You could also look at southern Taldor as having a slight Austro-Hungarian Empire thing going on which could help spackle over the disparity in geography by giving a basis for common themes. Also, Taldor has been in contact with the north longer than any other extant polity in the southern Inner Sea. Ample time for situations like Turin mentioned just above to occur with some cross pollination of cultures, etc. Not a perfect analogue, but were in high falootin' fantasy land anyhow.
I believe the Inner Sea World Guide makes mention of Taldan royalty hiring Ulfen mercenaries as body guards since they can't trust their own royal guards, or something to that effect.
Indeed. That's why I chose to assign Lady Argentea a frost-bitten Ulfen bodyguard in the opening scene for The Snows of Summer.
It seems odd nobody picked up on the incongruities.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
To be honest, the game works wherever you want it to work. Hell, my group is starting in a different world than Golarion, and the Winter Portal opened a rift to another world entirely. So if you want it to start further north than Taldor? Go right ahead. The module even says you can start it elsewhere. ;)
|
|
You could also look at southern Taldor as having a slight Austro-Hungarian Empire thing going on which could help spackle over the disparity in geography by giving a basis for common themes. Also, Taldor has been in contact with the north longer than any other extant polity in the southern Inner Sea. Ample time for situations like Turin mentioned just above to occur with some cross pollination of cultures, etc. Not a perfect analogue, but were in high falootin' fantasy land anyhow.
Actually, I think that there were implications a few years back that Taldor was based on the Byzantine Empire.
And the Byzantine Emperor actually had Viking mercenary guards (the Varangian Guard)
Edit: And if you look at the page I linked to, it talks about the Varangians being assimilated by the Byzantine Greeks. So it would be entirely possible to have a village of Norse architecture in Greece.
Or modern Minnesota, or New Zealand... :)
If you account for the eerie parallels that take place throughout the AP (thusfar), think of Helden as being 'that place where the Ulfen vacationers thought was nice and settled down some centuries ago'. Kind of how there are pockets of various ethnicities that are surprising throughout the real world.
Seriously like in anchorage alaska there is a HUGE pocket of Tongans/Hawaiians/Samoans....
Two questions, what ARE you doing here, and ARE YOU LOST??At first I thought they were native alaskans, but they aren't they are all from tropical islands, and....came..... here??