Proposed Skill Tree: Discernment

[Soldack Keldonson]

Explorer's Discernment
Level 1 - Mobs show up on your minimap as unidentified dots (medium range)
Level 2 - Mobs show up on your minimap as unidentifed dots (longer range)
Level 3 - Concentrate for 20 seconds uninterrupted, an arrow appears on your mini map pointing in the direction of the nearest random dungeon entrance that has spawned for you (if any are in range)
Level 4- Concentrate for 30 seconds uninterrupted, an arrow appears on your mini map pointing in the direction of the nearest random dungeon entrance that has spawned for anyone in your party (if any are in range)
Level 5 - Mobs show up on your mini-map as dots in green, yellow, red by threat level (mediumm range)
Level 6 - same as 5 but longer range

Miner's Discernment
Level 1 - Possible Nodes show up on your minimap as unidentified dots (medium range) (Some false positives)
Level 2 - Nodes show up on your minimap as unidentifed dots - no fals positives (medium range)
Level 3 - Nodes show up on your mini-map as color coded dots
Level 4 - same as 3 but longer range

[echilda]

Isn't 1 how the survival skill has been modelled in games in the past? I'm sure I have played a game where my survival type skill affected my minimap, but I cannot place the name.

[dariusu]

I'd like a tracking skill that actually made being a high level tracker valuable. Like rare/powerful mobs could be more easily tracked or only tracked by high level trackers. Also with the ability to identify the mobs at longer range.

[Trikk]

I don't think this is how the skill system will work and I think that both of those skills are awful ideas. Look at how EVE handles skills, it's very likely that it will be similar in concept.

[Soldack Keldonson]

Trikk wrote:

I don't think this is how the skill system will work and I think that both of those skills are awful ideas. Look at how EVE handles skills, it's very likely that it will be similar in concept.

Trikk, how will the skill system work?

[Hobbun]

From what I remember, you don’t actually get more powerful (i.e. more abilities) directly through raising your skills, it’s done through merit badges. You would raise ‘x’ amount of skill levels and then be able to try and attain your merit badge. If you are successful, you then gain whatever ability, or abilities, associated with that merit badge increase.

[Trikk]

Soldack Keldonson wrote:

Trikk, how will the skill system work?

I don't think it will work like how you have assumed. Look at how EVE handles skills, it's very likely that it will be similar in concept.

[Uthreth Baelcoressitas]

Actually, looking at how the skill system in Pathfinder might map onto an EVE-like skill system, I don't think Soldack is too far off the mark. In 3.5 D&D, skills were tied to classes in such a way that you almost never took skills that were considered "cross-class." However, in Pathfinder the skill system is independent of classes, the only benefit you get for taking a "class skill" is +3 on the check. This can be mapped onto an EVE-like skill system by doing the following, I'll use Survival as an example:

Survival I
- No prerequisites

Survival II
- Prerequisites: Survival I, level 5

Merit Badge: Track Enemies
- Prerequisites: Survival I, level 5

Merit Badge: Find Dungeon
- Prerequisites: Survival I, level 5 and Survival II, level 5

[Xennkari]

I wonder if they will limit the skills to levels 1 through 5 as EVE does or if they will allow us to train skills to higher levels as PF does.

[Trikk]

Uthreth Baelcoressitas wrote:

Actually, looking at how the skill system in Pathfinder might map onto an EVE-like skill system, I don't think Soldack is too far off the mark. In 3.5 D&D, skills were tied to classes in such a way that you almost never took skills that were considered "cross-class." However, in Pathfinder the skill system is independent of classes, the only benefit you get for taking a "class skill" is +3 on the check. This can be mapped onto an EVE-like skill system by doing the following, I'll use Survival as an example:

Survival I
- No prerequisites

Survival II
- Prerequisites: Survival I, level 5

Merit Badge: Track Enemies
- Prerequisites: Survival I, level 5

Merit Badge: Find Dungeon
- Prerequisites: Survival I, level 5 and Survival II, level 5

Each level of a skill in EVE does not give unique functionality to your character though, like the examples in the OP.

I would guess it'll be more like this:

Survival - Allows you to track enemies
Survival I: 5% increased movement speed while tracking
Survival II: 5% increased movement speed while tracking
Survival III: 5% increased movement speed while tracking
Survival IV: 5% increased movement speed while tracking
Survival V: 5% increased movement speed while tracking

Then of course each skill would allow you to use different tools and equipment, either giving you a bonus or being required to use it at all. The difference between a fantasy setting compared to a space ship flying game like EVE is of course that you don't interact with anything directly in EVE but rather through your ship's systems.

You would expect anyone in Pathfinder to be able to, for example, attempt to climb up a wall, so a skill like Climb would probably just make you better at it. However, even in EVE there are few things that give you such drastically new functionality as the examples in the OP does.

[Mark Kalmes]

Good ideas. Definitely going to fit things like this into a comprehensive system of stealth vs. perception. I don't know the details of this system yet though.

[Psyblade]

I think what is going to happen will be something like this, your skills will be seperated in different sections:

Normal Fighting Category Skill
Armor
Shield
Melee Weapon
-- 1h sword
-- 1h axe
-- 2h sword
-- 2h axe
Ranged Weapon
-- longbow
-- crossbow
-- shortbow

Magic Category Skill
Healing
Fire Magic
Air Magic
Summoning
Druidic Magic

Pets / Mounts Category Skill
Taming Pet/Mount
bird
horse
wolf
Mounted combat

Crafting Skills Category Skill
Mining
Wood Gathering
Crafting Armor
Crafting Weapons
Repairing

Leadership Skills Category Skill
Formations
Guild Skills

I suspect it will be something like this and it can be pretty big extensive. And each skill lvl would give you an increase, for example if you have the 1H sword skill up to lvl 4, you would get a 8% damage increase. If you have lvl 4 in Heavy Armor you would get an 8% armor increase.

[avari3]

Anything that is non combat skill trees gets my vote.

[Marthian]

It seems good so far.

However, I'm not really sure threat levels will work as intended. I've seen several times where a game marks a creature as dangerous, but they are hardly that.

On the reverse, I've actually seen an enemy labeled as weakest, and is the biggest pain in the butt ever (it can go into the air, only ranged attacks hit, and it can focus a beam on you, slowing you down, draining your hp, and not letting you do anything.)
---
In addition, I really think finding dungeons should be a whole adventure in of itself, so either move the dungeon locator up to a higher level (possibly the highest rank) or actually just remove it. Then if you come across one, you can set a way point there.

[Uthreth Baelcoressitas]

Actually, since it's already been confirmed that they're going to use level achievements/certificates for 1-20 I think it would be cool if the skills did actually map to each level, like Xennkari mentioned. So then Survival would look something like this:

Survival I
- Prerequisites: None
- 1: 5% increase chance to find materials for a fire
- 2: 5% increase chance to find materials for a fire
- 3: 5% increase chance to find materials for a fire
- 4: 5% increase chance to find materials for a fire
- 5: 5% increase chance to find materials for a fire

Survival II
- Prerequisites: Survival I, level 5, Any Level 2 Certificate
- 1: 5% increase chance to successfully start a camp fire
- 2: 5% increase chance to successfully start a camp fire
- 3: 5% increase chance to successfully start a camp fire
- 4: 5% increase chance to successfully start a camp fire
- 5: 5% increase chance to successfully start a camp fire

Survival III
- Prerequisites: Survival II, level 5, Any Level 3 Certificate
- 1: 5% increase chance to forage for food
- 2: 5% increase chance to forage for food
- 3: 5% increase chance to forage for food
- 4: 5% increase chance to forage for food
- 5: 5% increase chance to forage for food

Survival IV
- Prerequisites: Survival III, level 5, Track Certificate, Any Level 4 Certificate
- 1: 5% increase chance to track
- 2: 5% increase chance to track
- 3: 5% increase chance to track
- 4: 5% increase chance to track
- 5: 5% increase chance to track

Survival V
- Prerequisites: Survival IV, level 5, Any Level 5 Certificate
- 1: 5% increased movement speed while tracking
- 2: 5% increased movement speed while tracking
- 3: 5% increased movement speed while tracking
- 4: 5% increased movement speed while tracking
- 5: 5% increased movement speed while tracking

Survival VI
- Prerequisites: Survival V, level 5, Any Level 6 Certificate
- 1: 5% increase range that enemies appear on the minimap
- 2: 5% increase range that enemies appear on the minimap
- 3: 5% increase range that enemies appear on the minimap
- 4: 5% increase range that enemies appear on the minimap
- 5: 5% increase range that enemies appear on the minimap

Survival VII
- Prerequisites: Survival VI, level 5, Any Level 7 Certificate
- 1: 5% increase chance to identify the hostility of a natural creature on the minimap
- 2: 5% increase chance to identify the hostility of a natural creature on the minimap
- 3: 5% increase chance to identify the hostility of a natural creature on the minimap
- 4: 5% increase chance to identify the hostility of a natural creature on the minimap
- 5: 5% increase chance to identify the hostility of a natural creature on the minimap

etc.. until Survival XX

Certificate: Track
- Prerequisite: Survival III, level 5

[Soldack Keldonson]

Trikk wrote:

Each level of a skill in EVE does not give unique functionality to your character though, like the examples in the OP.

It has been a while since I dabbled in EVE, but I do remember skills levels giving you additional bonus.

Skill levels were required to use better equipment.
Skills levels were required to train other skills.
Skill levels gave you bonuses for each skill level, like starship command giving you +2% agility per level, and
there were skill levels that let you do additional things like the merchant skill like every rank gave you additional slotd to sell in the auction house.

[Psyblade]

What Soldack says is indeed correct. You had passive and active skill enhancers (like weapon usage that up the dmg)

Also, 5% is a huge boost per lvl and the difference between a 1 year old char and 1 month old char would be devestating, no matter how experienced the 1month old character is.

Also what I think you will see is the following, and this is just an example:

Mining 5
Copper (for copper you will need mining 2)
Tin (for tin you will need mining 2)
Silver (you will need Mining 3)
Gold (you will need Mining 4)
Adamantium (you will need Mining 5)

Mining will give you 2% decrease in time for mining per lvl
Copper, will give you 2% increase in yield per lvl

This is the way it is roughly done in Eve (if you use fantasy terms)