I'm starting this thread to catch the attention of those people who have already voted and won't check the vote thread again, or Andius' thread because they think it's conjecture.
Lee Hammock has stated that the pet system will include animal companions and familiars as well as cosmetic pets. These are core mechanics for Druids, Rangers and Wizards.
I would urge that people change their vote to get these prioritised so that they are working as soon as possible. Otherwise, a third of the classes will be under-powered at the beginning.
Goblin Squad Member
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Just want to remind people throwing out the word "class" here:
2. No Classes- Unlike other games that give you a narrow range of abilities as you train your class, in Pathfinder you gain levels in different Roles based off what you have trained.
So maybe Roles will still have animal companions and familiars. From reading Lee Hammack's quote this seems likely. And maybe Gods will be important to Roles as well.
Don't blame me, I voted pets coz I wanted those "annoying cosmetic critters" that you could let out in towns a la Guild Wars. Shoot me. ;)
Plus I never got the godlove Cleric/Paladin schtick and horses/"prettier" fast travel seemed on the one hand highly useful, but on the other completely wooden and utilitarian as a choice. (No wooden horse puns intended. Straw men need not apply.) Who wants to play PFO to be serious and get places fast?
Probably quite a lot of people. And that's ok. Me, I wanna run my avatar around towns in lederhosen, no shoes, breastplate and a stupidbig sword (or not if weapons aren't allowed/shown in "town") and occasionally pop out my mini-Jabberwocky or mini-Linnorm or mini-Intellect Devourer pets. Just because it's nice to hang in a shared place where folk from all over the world are hanging too, organizing new adventures, trading, getting ready to oust gankteams and busting out with the latest Golarion-nam dance-styles. Or not.
Thanks for starting this thread. Chiassa here will be a bard, but I'm planning a ranger or druid for her Destiny's Twin, and frankly I'm appalled that something which is a signature component of several classes is being lumped into a popularity contest with things that are not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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From Lee, in the poll thread.
So a little more explanation to what the options mean:
More Gods - As explained above currently we'll launch with nine gods, one for each alignment. Each god will have some custom robes/outfits, holy symbols with domain specific abilities, shrines/churches/temples/whatever in appropriate locations, decorations for shrines for each faith, and a faith rating for players that represents how much they are in tune with their god. We tried to choose gods that are specifically tied to the River Kingdoms area (and our super sad we didn't have room for Erastil).
Because of limited time we won't get everyone's favorite god in the initial list. The more gods option will add nine more gods to the list, probably one of each alignment except CE.
If this one isn't voted up we'll add gods eventually, it will just take longer.
Mounts and Fast Travel - Players will be able to train and buy/sell mounts they can ride around the world wherever they want. They most likely will not be used in combat initially; long term they will but mounted combat is a whole new animation set that basically doubles the animation work for combat. Players will also be able to book passage to another settlement via a fast travel service (if the settlements on both ends are friendly and both have the fast travel upgrades) that is cheaper than owning a mount, but only takes the player on a predefined path between settlements. This may be a horse, a wagon, whatever. Players are still attackable while using fast travel. Even without combat there are a lot of animations involved in riding.
Note fast travel is not teleporting. Only high level wizards can do that.
If this one isn't voted up we'll add the functionality at a later date.
Pets - Pets are primarily animal companions for rangers and druids. It will also allow familiars and random guard dogs or other such animals to follow the players along, but those are not primary features of a class so they'll be less useful. The tech involved is all the AI for pets pathing with you plus combat AI, plus all the mechanics work balancing them and all the animations. This also makes things like hiring mercenaries or hirelings to follow you around possible since its basically the same system. Also vanity pets so you can have a random pet animal that follows you around.
Animal Companions will require slotting an ability to have them active, so using them will be a trade off with other powers. Thus if this isn't voted up, we can add them at a later date without throwing everything off as Rangers and Druids will have other powers they can slot in the mean time.
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Well we already did get a "When". During the Early Enrollment Beta. That is a period during which a lot of features are going to be added to the game. I though it to be important to mention this context. So it's possible that pets will be in the game before players are able to make settlements or say half of the crafting system is missing.
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Listen guys and gals, this is the beta we signed up for. Lots of us will not get the class/race combo we have planned right out of the gate. My Ranger is supposed to be my main and it's already been kicked down the road because neither of the races he might be (half orc/half elf) will be available day 1.
So plan accordingly. Make your alt first or plan for a race change. This game will be pretty limited in scope when we get started.
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If you want a top end ranger, you'll likely want to work on it from day one. Features are likely to be missing for all classes during the beta, and "multi-classing" will prevent you from getting your capstone.
Try to keep in mind that this isn't the tabletop RPG and isn't going to be designed to be exactly like it. A ranger or druid from day one of beta would just work up other skills necessary for their capstone... training their combat skills or magic skills. You can't work on all your class skills at the same time, the training system won't work like that from what's been described, so you'll just be able to work on your "Animal handling" or whatever skill will be required to obtain animal companions once those systems are implemented.
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If you want a top end ranger, you'll likely want to work on it from day one. Features are likely to be missing for all classes during the beta, and "multi-classing" will prevent you from getting your capstone.
Try to keep in mind that this isn't the tabletop RPG and isn't going to be designed to be exactly like it. A ranger or druid from day one of beta would just work up other skills necessary for their capstone... training their combat skills or magic skills. You can't work on all your class skills at the same time, the training system won't work like that from what's been described, so you'll just be able to work on your "Animal handling" or whatever skill will be required to obtain animal companions once those systems are implemented.
Yeah, in all seriousness I'm curious how this is going to work. Very likely my ranger will not be training with animals anyways (or at least in a significant way) and as long as its viable I may skip the animal companion all together.
What my worry is is that other classes that rely on animal companions will either be underpowered at the beginning (which is an issue for PvP) or have a very limited play style.Here's another concern: will classes that will be missing content be able to "re spend" their training to include that content it's finally added? I presume so, but official confirmation would be better.
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Capstones are not in game anymore. There is now a "Focus"/"Devotion" system that will give you bonuses for only slotting abilites from a single class, but will not penalize you for learning multiple skills if they are not slotted or active.
A ranger or druid will be able to focus on other ranger or druid abilites instead of thier companion if the pet feature isn't available. They can slot an extra feat or domain feature until the animal is available.
But not having those abibilites at launch mean that you are taking penalities of what you can do compared to a Cleric or Fighter without all of the compensation in additional abilites you get for being a Druid or Ranger.
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Capstones are not in game anymore. There is now a "Focus"/"Devotion" system that will give you bonuses for only slotting abilites from a single class, but will not penalize you for learning multiple skills if they are not slotted or active.
A ranger or druid will be able to focus on other ranger or druid abilites instead of thier companion if the pet feature isn't available. They can slot an extra feat or domain feature until the animal is available.
But not having those abibilites at launch mean that you are taking penalities of what you can do compared to a Cleric or Fighter without all of the compensation in additional abilites you get for being a Druid or Ranger.
Ah, thanks! I'm behind on my reading, that's even better.
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Hmm I guess I should put off my ranger then... What to do for beta...
*thinks*
...so it's pretty easy to knock people out of fast travel as a bandit, then? ;)
Well, what else is a companionless Druid to do than sit in the bushes by the road with some pals with one hand on an anchored rope tied to a tree on the other side?
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Just another note, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I believe I remember from early reading of the blog and the comparison to the eve skill system that it's going to take real life years to cap all the skills for your class. They'll have plenty of time to institute features while you work on other skills.
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Well, what else is a companionless Druid to do than sit in the bushes by the road with some pals with one hand on an anchored rope tied to a tree on the other side?Hmm I guess I should put off my ranger then... What to do for beta...
*thinks*
...so it's pretty easy to knock people out of fast travel as a bandit, then? ;)
Obviously!
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The lack of pets is not THAT gimping.
The Ranger doesn't get the companion in TT Pathfinder until level 4 anyways. So if the companions make it in by the 6th month of beta, opening day rangers are just about right on schedule.
The druid in TT Pathfinder is a powerful character without the companion and an insanely overpowered character with the companion. The druid's offensive and defensive capabilities make it the OP class in pretty much every game it's in (WoW & AoC' Bear Shaman are examples). So let's not feel sorry for our Druid friends they will be fine in the long run.
Wizards/Sorcs lean on the pets as meat shields A LOT in very early levels when they are soloing or in small groups. They are the most affected here, but then again, PFO is a game where low levels of any class should not be running around solo. In group play wizards/sorcs rarely use the pets, they switch to damage/defense spells. Wizards/Sorcs also get extremly powerful in the long run so I don't feel sorry for them either.
The lack of pets is not THAT gimping.
Wizards/Sorcs lean on the pets as meat shields A LOT in very early levels when they are soloing or in small groups.
+1 In some MMOs you don't get a pet until a bit later on, even if you are a caster. Early DnD PnP really stuck it to mages but that shouldn't be an issue with the "new" ideas for these classes in MMOs (manna based, timers, components, et al.) A pet should not be a necessity in a skill based game, unless your skill is the pet.(animal handler, circus trainer, beastmaster, pack lord)
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@Valinar - Totally agree.
@avari3 - I play wizards about 95% of the time for the 33 years I have been playing RPG's and given the few HP's that familiars have, using them as "meat shields" is a bad, very bad, idea, especially when they die. I see no reason why that should be different in PFO. If I need a "meat shield" I use Summon Creature spells. My familiar, when I don't choose to bond with an item (to keep this in the PFRPG system), I usually have them scamper away, or hide behind me as I am bonded to them. If the Witch class skill tree is included at some point, it is even more important as they are the Witches' spell book in a real sense, as the Witch needs to commune with them each morning. No familiar, no spells that day, and the ritual to summon a new one is costly.
I honestly believe that animal companions and familiars are very important (I don't get why GW left them out of the pet description). Other forms of pets should be added after in order of importance, so next in would be mounts and pack animals, then combat animals (guard gods) and only after all other things, including livestock for crafters, should cosmetic pets even be considered. While it is nice to have a dog or cat or whatever as a pet, it doesn't add much to the game besides fluff, and so they should be developed last. No one is going to die if it takes six months after OE to see pet pets added, but Rangers, Druids, and Wizards need animals, as do Merchants, Crafters, and a little later on Paladins. Just MHO, but I think GW could have come up with a better name than Pet system, as these aren't pets, they are important class features - and yes I know classes as they appear in PFRPG won't exist, but by training the correct skill trees, you can easily mimic them.
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Sorry if I wasn't clear Gloreindl. For the purposes of this thread, familiars and summons have been grouped together because they are the same video game mechanic and we are using the term pet for all of them (hence the name of the thread)_. I was talking about summon spells for wizards being used as meat shields. Wizards and Sorcs rely heavily on summon spells when they solo at early levels and that is why they would be the most affected by this.
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NP avari3. I wasn't singling you out, sorry if I didn't make that clear. I just dislike the term "Pet" system as used by GW, because when the survey was put up, it only spoke about Druid/Ranger types, and still people seemed to presume they meant cosmetic pets, which is why I believe that so many voted for Mounts/Fast Travel (as most people don't read beyond the title). Had GW called it Companion Animals/Familiars, I think those who just glanced would have seen instantly that it had to do with "class" function animals. Heck, even though it might take a while (as envisioned by Ryan) for a Paladin to be able to get a Mount, it could have read Animal Companions/Familiars/Paladin Mounts.
I also think people didn't read or research carefully what the Mount/Fast Travel system really is intended to be - they saw Mount and thought "Yay! I get a horse!", which people posted afterwards was their belief. Now since everyone who voted hasn't posted, I could be very wrong, and admit that, but prioritizing "Fast Travel" over animals that will likely play a big part in defining what "class" you are via the skills you are likely to train, and the merit badges you are likely to earn seems silly, especially when it was said all three systems would make it in at some point. Given that Ranger/Druid style skill trees will likely be popular, as survival knowledge of nature will help a lot in this area of the River Kingdoms, supporting them would logically make more sense than fast travel, as most players will likely stick close to their starting locations until they feel relatively safe heading to other places. Again, I want to state I could be wrong as not everyone is posting why they voted. This is just how I saw it take shape from things posted on the KS page. Also, again I an sorry if it looked like I was suggesting you were in any way wrong. With your explanation and a re-read I see exactly what you mean and agree with it regarding summoned creatures/Nature's Allies.
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Obviously!Well, what else is a companionless Druid to do than sit in the bushes by the road with some pals with one hand on an anchored rope tied to a tree on the other side?Hmm I guess I should put off my ranger then... What to do for beta...
*thinks*
...so it's pretty easy to knock people out of fast travel as a bandit, then? ;)
I wonder if fast travel will take into considerations in what manner your travelling. One could be a heavy armored warrior on a war horse trampling through the area careless of any attention it might bring. The other could be a wizard flying on a horse protected by invisibility, nondetection, carrying a darkness stone using his glasses of true seeing.
u never know :)
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There is a lot of angst about what characters will be viable.
I think its important to realise this will be a beta.
Whilst clearly many hope their beta character may carry through to give them a head start in the real game there is no guarantee this will happen. A beta is just that and substantial changes may yet take place.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is a lot of angst about what characters will be viable.
I think its important to realise this will be a beta.
Whilst clearly many hope their beta character may carry through to give them a head start in the real game there is no guarantee this will happen. A beta is just that and substantial changes may yet take place.
In a tabletop game players moan about characters or classes beeing overpowered etc, but if your clever enough you can "win" by any character in a rpg tabletop because only imagination is the limit.
I hope that in some way the pathfinder online will feel the same. Every player have a character to fit their play style, but what makes the character powerful is the player beeing clever and not limited by the framework of the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is a lot of angst about what characters will be viable.
I think its important to realise this will be a beta.
Whilst clearly many hope their beta character may carry through to give them a head start in the real game there is no guarantee this will happen. A beta is just that and substantial changes may yet take place.
The PFO Live Beta is a paid event, meaning progress and characters will be saved and usable after the main launch. This has already been promised as part of the Kickstarter early access privileges.
The beta part certainly does mean things can and will change, and I guess some progress could be lost or changes if skills you have trained in receive substantial overhauls or are removed, but that's just par for the course.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is a lot of angst about what characters will be viable.
I think its important to realise this will be a beta.
Whilst clearly many hope their beta character may carry through to give them a head start in the real game there is no guarantee this will happen. A beta is just that and substantial changes may yet take place.
In a tabletop game players moan about characters or classes beeing overpowered etc, but if your clever enough you can "win" by any character in a rpg tabletop because only imagination is the limit.
I hope that in some way the pathfinder online will feel the same. Every player have a character to fit their play style, but what makes the character powerful is the player beeing clever and not limited by the framework of the game.
In PnP it's also a lot about what d20 results you get. I really hope the engine in PFO uses d20 to determine stuff.
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In PnP it's also a lot about what d20 results you get. I really hope the engine in PFO uses d20 to determine stuff.There is a lot of angst about what characters will be viable.
I think its important to realise this will be a beta.
Whilst clearly many hope their beta character may carry through to give them a head start in the real game there is no guarantee this will happen. A beta is just that and substantial changes may yet take place.
In a tabletop game players moan about characters or classes beeing overpowered etc, but if your clever enough you can "win" by any character in a rpg tabletop because only imagination is the limit.
I hope that in some way the pathfinder online will feel the same. Every player have a character to fit their play style, but what makes the character powerful is the player beeing clever and not limited by the framework of the game.
True but there are both open and closed rolls of the dice, and the DM's job is to make sure the random adds to the fun factor and not the grief :)