Hello pathfinder community , excited since this is my first post! About the topic , i am playing as a magus for some time now and the class is really exciting (way better than duskblade of 3,5) and i had a Q about his spellstrike ability.
SPELLSTRIKE
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier
It mentions nowhere about a concetration check to cast the spell if you have enemies around you but if you look at spell combat it mentions about casting defensively. Same was in 3.5 with the duskblade , arcane channeling mentioned nowhere abou casting defensively and in many official forums said it was not necessary. IS it the same here ? Do you need a concetration or not ? thanks in advance for your replies
You need to cast defensively to cast without provoking an attack of opportunity; you make a concentration check to cast defensively, and if you make it you cast, and if you fail the spell fails.
Spell strike just lets you replace the "free" touch you get with a "free" melee hit to deliver the spell you cast.
Hello pathfinder community , excited since this is my first post! About the topic , i am playing as a magus for some time now and the class is really exciting (way better than duskblade of 3,5) and i had a Q about his spellstrike ability.
SPELLSTRIKE
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifierIt mentions nowhere about a concetration check to cast the spell if you have enemies around you but if you look at spell combat it mentions about casting defensively. Same was in 3.5 with the duskblade , arcane channeling mentioned nowhere abou casting defensively and in many official forums said it was not necessary. IS it the same here ? Do you need a concetration or not ? thanks in advance for your replies
You would make a concentration check to cast defensively if you wished to avoid attack(s) of opportunity for casting while in a threatened square. You are not required to make this check if you wish to absorb the attack(s) of opportunity. This is a general rule for casting while in a threatened square, and spell strike does not allow you to avoid this.
Yeah, what they said, but keep in mind that you cast a touch spell and keep it in your hand until you can unleash it on something. This might be useful pre-battle prep.
How does it react (if at all) with spells that grant multiple touches?
i.e. Chill Touch, Frostbite
Sorry to chime in with a separate question, but this has boggled me for quite awhile
You may replace each you are entitled to with a Melee Weapon Attack.
But remember the Weapon Attack hits Normal AC NOT Touch AC.
Thanks Azaelas
I suppose said Magus could bounce between touch and weapon attacks, could he not? That would look neat
I guess he could but the question is would that become TWF if he done it in one round.
Hmm, Spell Combat and Spell Strike on a spell that lets you get off multiple touch attacks in a round...
Does that mean I can TWF with one Touch attack then 1-3 Normal Attacks that also fire off the Touch Spell?
I'm not sure I understand the question but I'm pretty sure the answer is 'no'. What spells allow you to get off multiple touch attacks in a round?
A magus can replace a free touch attack with a free melee attack. By using Spellstrike and Spell Combat, they can cast any touch spell and attack twice in a round (with the Spell Combat penalties to hit). You must declare which of the attacks is the one that is trying to deliver the touch spell.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
this is heavily confusing, so i just have one question, would i be able to 1st turn--> use spellstrike to cast a spell on my scimitar. 2nd turn, cast true strike and move next to an opponent, turn 3...spell combat, the first attack imbued with shocking grasp and the spell disrupt undead (my GM allowed me to learn this spell) next to it? would i be able to do an extra attack after this, or is this even allowed?
Others have said no, but I can say no but you can do it this way:
Round 1: Cast true strike
Round 2: Cast a spell which involves a touch attack (such as shocking grasp) which you deliver using a weapon with Spellstrike, gaining a +20 bonus to your attack roll. Combine with Spell Combat, and you may also make a regular attack with your weapon (and if you somehow missed the 1st attack, you are still holding the charge of your touch attack and get a 2nd chance on this next attack).
Round 3: Um... profit!
There are plenty of spells that allow you to combine them with Unarmed Strike or allow you to Full Attack with them in other ways.
I was wondering how Spellstrike might interact with this.
Hmm, Spell Combat and Spell Strike on a spell that lets you get off multiple touch attacks in a round...
Does that mean I can TWF with one Touch attack then 1-3 Normal Attacks that also fire off the Touch Spell?
Assuming Jason understood the question, yes.Hmm, Spell Combat and Spell Strike on a spell that lets you get off multiple touch attacks in a round...
Does that mean I can TWF with one Touch attack then 1-3 Normal Attacks that also fire off the Touch Spell?
That was essentially what I was getting at.
can i use ranged touch spells with spellstrike?
I've been using a F elf magus (standard magus-no archetype) for some time now,she is 7 magus now.
I usually use her this way in combat:
Pre-combat prep.- casts Shield and uses arcana pool to power up melee weapon (scimitar)
Round 1- closes by her target and attacks with melee (scimitar)
Round 2-rolls concentration check/if conc is made casts 1 touch spell while attacking with scimitar at -2(plus other minuses from spell combat if situation calls for them)
Optionally she can use spellstrike to make a free melee attack with a touch spell (but against normal AC) at her highest attack bonus (minus penalties from spell combat) while again attacking with a touch spell with the off hand for a two spell attacks in a round (assuming both concentration rolls are made)
At least this is what i understood by reading UM and the various threads discussing the use of spell combat and spell strike simultaneously
I've been using a F elf magus (standard magus-no archetype) for some time now,she is 7 magus now.
I usually use her this way in combat:Pre-combat prep.- casts Shield and uses arcana pool to power up melee weapon (scimitar)
Round 1- closes by her target and attacks with melee (scimitar)
Round 2-rolls concentration check/if conc is made casts 1 touch spell while attacking with scimitar at -2(plus other minuses from spell combat if situation calls for them)Optionally she can use spellstrike to make a free melee attack with a touch spell (but against normal AC) at her highest attack bonus (minus penalties from spell combat) while again attacking with a touch spell with the off hand for a two spell attacks in a round (assuming both concentration rolls are made)
At least this is what i understood by reading UM and the various threads discussing the use of spell combat and spell strike simultaneously
You're fine until you cast 2 touch spells in the same round. You can't do that. You only get a free melee touch attack in the same round that you cast said touch attack spell, and you cannot cast 2 spells in a round without using swift/immediate action options. You could hold the charge on a touch spell and use 1 of your normal attacks to deliver it and then cast another touch spell which would grant its own free melee attack in the same round. Be careful.
can i use ranged touch spells with spellstrike?You can with the Close Range arcana. Otherwise, no.
Close Range works only with ray spells. It works with ray of enfeeblement, but not with acid arrow, for instance.
Round 1- closes by her target and attacks with melee (scimitar)
If you're just moving up and attacking, you could cast a touch spell and get mostly the same thing. By casting outside of danger, you don't have to cast defensively, and since a touch spell grants you a free attack, you can cast, then move up to the target, then make your free attack with your scimitar via Spellstrike.
Round 2-rolls concentration check/if conc is made casts 1 touch spell while attacking with scimitar at -2(plus other minuses from spell combat if situation calls for them)
It's hard to tell from your writing if you're doing this right, so I'll explain just in case. If you already know this, don't be offended.
First, it helps me as a GM if the player announces what they're doing. Declaring that you're using Spell Combat means the GM (and anyone else at the table who is interested) knows that you're using a full-round action, what the requirements are, and what's about to happen.
So you're using a full-round action to use Spell Combat. You're casting your spell first, defensively. If successfully cast, the touch spell grants you a free attack, which you're making with your scimitar via Spellstrike (vs normal AC, taking the -2 penalty). Then you get your normal attack(s) with your scimitar, also at -2.
Why are you casting touch spells in melee? Didn't you know that they let you cast, move, AND THEN touch?
I would stand back 10-30 feet, cast shocking grasp (or other touch spell), move up to my chosen target, then bash their head in with my shocking grasped mace (or other melee weapon) all in the same round.
The magus rocks like that.
(Even though technically the cast/move/touch trick is inherent to all melee touch spells and can be done by any spellcaster).
I'm well aware, Matt, but the OP's question was in regards to Spellstrike, not Spell Combat.
Thank you for citing a situation in which you would want to cast a melee touch spell in melee though. I'm sure it will help clarify matters for others.
Because spell combat allows you to hit and touch at the same time, while this way you only get to let off a spell. It's rather simple really.
Is this in response to my (rhetorical) questions?
If so, it's wrong. First, Spell Combat doesn't let you hit and cast a spell at the same time. It let's you make a full attack AND cast a spell either BEFORE or AFTER said full attack.
You probably meant to say Spellstrike, which can be used whenever you cast a melee touch spell. Here's how that works:
Step 1) I declare that I am casting a melee touch spell (let's say shocking grasp). That give me my spell charge as wellas the option to use Spellstrike if I so choose (I could also just use the spell normally).
Step 2) I announce that I will also being using Spellstrike and channeling the shocking grasp spell through my weapon (a mace in this instance).
Step 4) If I am in melee already, I will likely state that I am casting defensively, making a Concentration check against DC 17. Assuming the check is successful, or that none is needed, the spell then resolves. If I am not in melee, then I will close to my chosen target.
Step 5) I attack my target with my mace, making a normal melee attack. If it hits I deal my mace damage as well as spell damage. If it crits, both the mace and spell damage are doubled. If I miss, I keep my spell's charge and may try to hit him with it on my next turn.
Whether or not I am using Spellstrike, I still must follow all the normal rules for touch spells that aren't specifically altered by my class abilities.
|
Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
Thank you for proving my point.
Thanks for the clarryfing answers and i also have found a lvl 1 spell called ''Warding Weapon'' which is very good since in 99% of the cases you do not need to cast defensively. Doing this before combat sure helps a lot.
Also the Spell Combat class feature is soooo good. You can make many many combinations like :
-true strike and 1 attack (very good since lvl 7)
-bladed dash and your rest attacks ( closing gap and 3 attacks at lvl 8 just like that)
- returning weapon and 1 ranged attack then, since you need to wield a one handed weapon not melee.
I love the versatility this class offers !
- returning weapon and 1 ranged attack then, since you need to wield a one handed weapon not melee.
Since you are no longer wielding it once you throw it, you're no longer meeting the prerequisites for Spell Combat.
I guess if you threw it last you could consider it aborting the action, just like if you were disarmed in the middle of the action. But if you threw first, you wouldn't then be able to cast.
Spellblade is kind of what you're talking about.
But their "throw athame" ability is separate from spell combat.
This thread is making me think about a 1 level monk dip for the magus mostly for style feats but also for flurry + spellstrike thru a temple sword.
Take lingering spell and Magical liniage shocking grasp. Now you can get an extra attack with shocking grasp still on your sword by 3rd level for a neg 1, if you're facing something with a boss AC try its touch ac with improved unarmed strike and your open hand.
You also get a bonus feat and a low DC stunning fist (still effective on say casters) and if you happen to have a wisdom bonus you can go unarmored mage armor+dex+wis. Not too bad, especially if your Dm lets you roll instead of point buy.
Take lingering spell and Magical liniage shocking grasp. Now you can get an extra attack with shocking grasp still on your sword by 3rd level for a neg 1
Shocking Grasp cannot be affected by Lingering Spell because SG doesn't affect an area.
- returning weapon and 1 ranged attack then, since you need to wield a one handed weapon not melee.Since you are no longer wielding it once you throw it, you're no longer meeting the prerequisites for Spell Combat.
I guess if you threw it last you could consider it aborting the action, just like if you were disarmed in the middle of the action. But if you threw first, you wouldn't then be able to cast.
You just need to be wielding a one-handed or light melee weapon to qualify for Spell Combat, right? Doesn't unarmed strike count still?
Seems to me he'd still have that after throwing his returning weapon.
In any case, I think people are overthinking it. It's supposed to be like duel-wielding, except you get an extra spell instead of an extra weapon attack. I don't believe there is anything preventing you from intermixing different weapons (or even different attack forms, such as throwing) during the routine anymore than there is whilst duel-wielding.
Take lingering spell and Magical liniage shocking grasp. Now you can get an extra attack with shocking grasp still on your sword by 3rd level for a neg 1Shocking Grasp cannot be affected by Lingering Spell because SG doesn't affect an area.
I suppose that depends on how you interpret spellstrike, I'm channeling the spell thru my weapon which in my opinion constitutes an area (the area being the weapon.)
Unfortunately, since Shocking Grasp doesn't have an area as defined by the spell rules, it's quite clear that the use of that spell with the feat is invalid.
|
|
I suppose that depends on how you interpret spellstrike, I'm channeling the spell thru my weapon which in my opinion constitutes an area (the area being the weapon.)Take lingering spell and Magical liniage shocking grasp. Now you can get an extra attack with shocking grasp still on your sword by 3rd level for a neg 1Shocking Grasp cannot be affected by Lingering Spell because SG doesn't affect an area.
Wonderful, so should an enemy enter your weapon, he'll take damage. :)
You just need to be wielding a one-handed or light melee weapon to qualify for Spell Combat, right?
Spell Combat (Ex): "To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand."
Is 'unarmed strike' a light or one-handed melee weapon in your other hand?
I don't believe there is anything preventing you from intermixing different weapons (or even different attack forms, such as throwing) during the routine anymore than there is whilst duel-wielding.
Spell Combat (Ex): "As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon..."
My assumption is that "his melee weapon" is specifically and exclusively the light or one-handed melee weapon in his other hand referenced in the sentence before that.