|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you're the DM, you tell him that it's another DM's houserule, and that you are under no obligation to abide by it.
I have a couple separate DMs who have differing houserules, and I run my own game differently than they do. The DM is the final arbiter of any and all rules questions at the table, and if they want to spend their time playing the rules lawyer instead of actually playing the game, they're free to do it where it's not distracting or interrupting everyone else.
+1
Seconded Seranov's post.
The other GM's houserules don't matter at all. You ever go to a friend's house as a kid and explain to the other parent that "Well my mom lets me do this..." and have her come back with a "I don't care, this is my house, you will abide by MY rules"?
Same scenario.
If it's a matter of confusion the players are experiencing going from one game to the next, maybe print out a cheat sheet with your versions of the rules they are confusing that they can reference quickly and easily while playing.
|
|
There is discussion about weather or not the example you give is indeed within the regular rules. Has something to do with touch spells giving you a free attack that turn. The rules do clearly say you can cast, move to target and touch. Weather you can continue moving afterwards may be debatable. The rules do not say you can move, cast, touch and continue to move move, at least not with out the 3.5 feat mobile spell casting(spring attack for spells). But that free touch attack can be interpreted to allow different things after the touch.
How can a free touch attack be interpreted as a free move?
There is discussion about weather or not the example you give is indeed within the regular rules. Has something to do with touch spells giving you a free attack that turn. The rules do clearly say you can cast, move to target and touch. Weather you can continue moving afterwards may be debatable. The rules do not say you can move, cast, touch and continue to move move, at least not with out the 3.5 feat mobile spell casting(spring attack for spells). But that free touch attack can be interpreted to allow different things after the touch.
You can cast, move and make your free touch attack.
You CAN'T move, cast, move (his example was of someone moving 5 ft., presumably to get out of a threatened space), casting, then moving to make his touch.You CAN'T move, make your touch attack and continue moving (maybe if you had Spring Attack).
There is discussion about weather or not the example you give is indeed within the regular rules. Has something to do with touch spells giving you a free attack that turn. The rules do clearly say you can cast, move to target and touch. Weather you can continue moving afterwards may be debatable. The rules do not say you can move, cast, touch and continue to move move, at least not with out the 3.5 feat mobile spell casting(spring attack for spells). But that free touch attack can be interpreted to allow different things after the touch.
General rule is that actions are taken one after another, so, unless the particular action states that it can be done in the middle of another action (like, for example Fly-by Attack) then it can't be taken before the first action is finished.
What about the 5 foot step?
Cast spell (healing) 5 foot step, use the 'touch attack', then move.
I've always though spellcasters were too mobile and some spells should take longer to cast. They used to in 1e.
The 5 foot step and the free touch thing kinda makes things grey.
Look at it like this,
A magus, im thinking about making would be a magus/inquisitor.
With the right arcana, I could cast heal spells as a touch attack on undead for example.
As a magus I could cast the heal spell, 5 foot step, and then spell combat (a full attack) using the heal spell as an attack on the undead.
I could also cast the heal spell, 5 foot step, touch with the free touch attack, and then presumably move (sure it would provoke an AoO)
But that's the magus using the rules, not a magus ability.
So maybe this guy is doing something that should be allowed.
It's not game breaking or ridiculous.
The 5 foot step is the corny thing, would love to see that removed from the rules or changed.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You can either move or 5' step, not both.
|
#Pendagast: The 5' step has it weirdnesses, but the main thing is that you are forgetting, or maybe never knew, is that a 5' step cannot be combined with any other movement.
You can still use a move equivalent action (drawing a weapon, for example), but you cannot move any other distance in combination with a 5' step.
I see, well it's never anything we've ever tried before. Just didn't come up a lot.
In fact. 5' step didn't really come in to play (without a battle board) until magus which almost owns the 5' step.
We occasionally used it for full attacking fighters, but not much or sometimes for a caster than needed a bit of space.
Never tried to combine the movement before, I think I was confusing it with things like rules for step up etc.
Explain that the book has the core rules, and the many GM's have their own house rules, but they are called called "house" rules because it varies by house/GM.
No GM is under an obligation to follow another GM's rule.
there is a feat for this like shot on the run or spring attack, so if there isnt a feat for it to cast, then you cant do it,
I hate that aspect, really, if there isnt a feat for it you cant do it, I cant wait till they come out with the scratch your ass feat, because this itch has been killing me!
IF you're not talking about him taking a 5' step, there's a maybe in there. Maybe (it is unclear) a PC could cast CLW, move 15'/ touch (as a free action) thus activating the CLW / move the rest of his move.
This is reasonable houserule, since what exactly can be done as a free action is up to the DM.
"drive by healing"
can healing be a held charge though? or does it need to be administered as part of casting? Ive never seen anyone even try to "hold a charge" on a heal spell
no I dont mean, WHY would you. I can see why, But what I'm saying is CAN you? Certain spells and rules call out the ability to hold charges like chill touch for example. Can you hold a charge of healing? Or is it expended by the cat of casting it? Like fireball? You can't hold a fireball, you either fireball or dont fireball. How does it work for cure spells?
no I dont mean, WHY would you. I can see why, But what I'm saying is CAN you? Certain spells and rules call out the ability to hold charges like chill touch for example. Can you hold a charge of healing? Or is it expended by the cat of casting it? Like fireball? You can't hold a fireball, you either fireball or dont fireball. How does it work for cure spells?
You're comparing a touch spell to a long range spell which work slightly different. You can not hold a fireball charge, because it has no charge to hold in the first place. But you can hold the charge for any spell with a range of touch. When you cast a spell with a range of touch, you get a free touch attack to deliver the spell. So you can cast the spell, walk up to someone and touch them, all in the same round.
Or you can cast a spell with a range of touch when you're far away and then a few rounds later run up and poke something and the spell goes off.
I have a player who plays in another game and his gm allows all kinds of weird stuff. Example being able to move 5 feet cast heal then finish off with 25 feet of movement, this leads to wasted game time looking up rules and arguing. How would you handle these moments?
I've been on that side. Playing in 3 different groups (for 3e), each group had various "Rule Interpretations". Some had RAW, some had RAI, some had Houserules, some had 3rd party content allowed and some had Mis-Interpretations. And it wasn't like 1 group had RAW.....they were all sprinkled over all 3 groups.
Its going to be hard for him. He's going to have to relearn the rules, while still knowing the other set of rules (because it sounds like he is still in the other group).
He needs to know "Group A plays this way" and "Group B plays that way", and remember which sets apply and which group he's currently playing with. I know for me, the other players/DMs started calling me a Rules Lawyer (and I play with Lawyers), but I had to learn what the book said, what group A plays with (and sometimes why), what group B plays with (and sometimes why) and what group C plays with (luckily, as DM, I knew why here ;-).
And as the DM, you need to be easy on him, and make sure you help him out. Don't look at him like he's stupid, but explain this is how we read the rules. Are you going to get annoyed at times? Yes. But if you give him time to relearn, it could be very rewarding.
The detour on this thread is actually kind of interesting but, to address the OP, defer to the published rules (and your house rules), and if the player won't take your word then invite him to read the rules himself and show you where his version appears.
Hopefully looking this up happens when it is not the players turn or after combat. In the meantime, this is where DM fiat serves the game. You are right until shown wrong, and the other players won't have to wait for their turn.
Well James's interpretation isnt really a detour that sounds exactly what the player wanted to do. I mean his semantics might have been off, but he wanted to heal someone in the middle of a move and move past them, The order is all that is needed. so it seems it can be done, what he wanted to do, By RAW.
The only difference being, WHERE is was in his order of action when he cast the spell. Which would ultimately only truly affect one thing, whether or not where he was when casting was in a threatened square.
But all in all, his intended outcome should be more or less legal.