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....the $100 print pack now also provides you with the PDFs, so for EU, you need to pledge $5+$100+$15, for a total of $120.
Got a source for that, because update 7 only mentions the PDF going to any pledges at the Loremaster level and above...it doesn't mention anything about adding PDFs to the RPG Print Package.
So, I finally did some research into Pathfinder Online, and I'm really disappointed.
No leveling/class system, no real translation of the Pathfinder RPG game system except in naming conventions and appearance, open worldwide player vs. player content with no restrictions, primarily skill-based system.
There's a lot of hyperbole in the threads about this too, and a lot of underestimation of player capabilities/determination. I get the strong feeling that Goblinworks may not have as firm a grasp on what the customers want from this IP than what they feel customers may want/what is marketable/what is unmarketable.
Having worked in the game industry for two years on an MMO when World of Warcraft had just come out, I can say that the expectations Goblinworks has and a lot of their design theory may not turn out the way they expect. I see a lot of the same ground the company I worked for being tread, I just hope that it doesn't go the same way.
It's disheartening to find that something I was so excited about when I first heard of the project has become what feels based on description like a PC mod for Rome: Total War with some EVE Online elements thrown in and a Pathfinder skin tacked on to it.
It's a shame, because I love the Emerald Spire product that is being offered, and I'm a great fan of Keith's work as well and would love to see what he'd do with it if it reached that level of funding.
I really hope the final product is better than what is being talked about on the Goblinworks website. But, given what I've been shown I can't in good conscience support it in kick-starter form, and that really surprises me.
CEO
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No leveling/class system, no real translation of the Pathfinder RPG game system except in naming conventions and appearance, open worldwide player vs. player content with no restrictions, primarily skill-based system.
One thing that needs to be said here is that we don't have the option of providing a real translation of the Pathfinder RPG game into the MMO. Since we published the Pathfinder RPG under the OGL, that license specifically prohibits us from using the rules in a computer game of any sort, including an MMO.
So, because of that restriction, we are planning to use new mechanics to provide the look and feel of the Pathfinder RPG without using the rules of the Pathfinder RPG. Our goal is to make a game that will feel like Pathfinder. Folks that are looking for a direct literal translation of the rules are out of luck, because we can't legally do that so it isn't even an option.
-Lisa
No leveling/class system, no real translation of the Pathfinder RPG game system except in naming conventions and appearance, open worldwide player vs. player content with no restrictions, primarily skill-based system.
One thing that needs to be said here is that we don't have the option of providing a real translation of the Pathfinder RPG game into the MMO. Since we published the Pathfinder RPG under the OGL, that license specifically prohibits us from using the rules in a computer game of any sort, including an MMO.
So, because of that restriction, we are planning to use new mechanics to provide the look and feel of the Pathfinder RPG without using the rules of the Pathfinder RPG. Our goal is to make a game that will feel like Pathfinder. Folks that are looking for a direct literal translation of the rules are out of luck, because we can't legally do that so it isn't even an option.
-Lisa
You guys should of stated this first thing. Boy do I feel like I've been fooled. They are creating a Pathfinder MMO and you can't even use the system rules. BOGUS!
It's not like PF is "computer friendly" anyway. How do you put a Wish spell in a MMO?
I am surprised people are surprised.
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Chief Technical Officer
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You guys should of stated this first thing. Boy do I feel like I've been fooled. They are creating a Pathfinder MMO and you can't even use the system rules. BOGUS!
Psst: The Pathfinder campaign setting existed before the Pathfinder RPG did.
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Getting the PDF with the $105 ($5 token pledge + print pack) finally convinced me to make a pledge. I like the idea of the MMO and hope it does well, but don't really expect to be very interested in the MMO itself (mostly due to lack of time to play), so I'm just in this for the tabletop gaming materials. 8^)
Thanks for adding the PDF to the "print pack".
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CEO
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You guys should of stated this first thing. Boy do I feel like I've been fooled. They are creating a Pathfinder MMO and you can't even use the system rules. BOGUS!
We haven't been shy about this. It has been said numerous times in our blogs and on the message boards. Trust me, this game will be very Pathfinder. I wouldn't have it any other way.
-Lisa
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No leveling/class system, no real translation of the Pathfinder RPG game system except in naming conventions and appearance, open worldwide player vs. player content with no restrictions, primarily skill-based system.
One thing that needs to be said here is that we don't have the option of providing a real translation of the Pathfinder RPG game into the MMO. Since we published the Pathfinder RPG under the OGL, that license specifically prohibits us from using the rules in a computer game of any sort, including an MMO.
So, because of that restriction, we are planning to use new mechanics to provide the look and feel of the Pathfinder RPG without using the rules of the Pathfinder RPG. Our goal is to make a game that will feel like Pathfinder. Folks that are looking for a direct literal translation of the rules are out of luck, because we can't legally do that so it isn't even an option.
-Lisa
While I like the D&D system I have pledged for a MMO set in Golarion, not for the D&D game mechanics, so it is perfectly fine for me.
I think most people realize that it is not possible to import D&D rules in a MMO setting 1:1, what is important is keeping the Pathfinder feeling.I really doubt someone want a turn based MMO :D
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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While I like the D&D system I have pledged for a MMO set in Golarion, not for the D&D game mechanics, so it is perfectly fine for me.
I think most people realize that it is not possible to import D&D rules in a MMO setting 1:1, what is important is keeping the Pathfinder feeling.I really doubt someone want a turn based MMO :D
Actually, I'd love one. I prefer my single player CRPGs to be turn based, and a MMO that was turn based also would be that much better. I realize that it's unlikely to find one, but I can hope...
You guys should of stated this first thing. Boy do I feel like I've been fooled. They are creating a Pathfinder MMO and you can't even use the system rules. BOGUS!We haven't been shy about this. It has been said numerous times in our blogs and on the message boards. Trust me, this game will be very Pathfinder. I wouldn't have it any other way.
-Lisa
Oh I guess then that this information slipped through the cracks as I'm here everyday and must of missed it. It's no big deal really I was just kind of shocked I had just found that out. I have money in the kickstarter and I plan on getting the book and hope the MMO will lead to a non MMO games.
So $105 for print pack incl. PDF? Done...
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Oh I guess then that this information slipped through the cracks as I'm here everyday and must of missed it. It's no big deal really I was just kind of shocked I had just found that out. I have money in the kickstarter and I plan on getting the book and hope the MMO will lead to a non MMO games.You guys should of stated this first thing. Boy do I feel like I've been fooled. They are creating a Pathfinder MMO and you can't even use the system rules. BOGUS!We haven't been shy about this. It has been said numerous times in our blogs and on the message boards. Trust me, this game will be very Pathfinder. I wouldn't have it any other way.
-Lisa
Have dagnabbit! Have!
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Actually, I'd love one. I prefer my single player CRPGs to be turn based, and a MMO that was turn based also would be that much better. I realize that it's unlikely to find one, but I can hope...
While I like the D&D system I have pledged for a MMO set in Golarion, not for the D&D game mechanics, so it is perfectly fine for me.
I think most people realize that it is not possible to import D&D rules in a MMO setting 1:1, what is important is keeping the Pathfinder feeling.I really doubt someone want a turn based MMO :D
Turn based almost certainly can't work turn based - what do other players do whilst waiting for someone slow to decide. Also, how big do you set the ara where you tie the turns together?
Have dagnabbit! Have!Oh I guess then that this information slipped through the cracks as I'm here everyday and must of missed it. It's no big deal really I was just kind of shocked I had just found that out. I have money in the kickstarter and I plan on getting the book and hope the MMO will lead to a non MMO games.You guys should of stated this first thing. Boy do I feel like I've been fooled. They are creating a Pathfinder MMO and you can't even use the system rules. BOGUS!We haven't been shy about this. It has been said numerous times in our blogs and on the message boards. Trust me, this game will be very Pathfinder. I wouldn't have it any other way.
-Lisa
Have whut?
Got a source for thatThere's a video on the homepage where Lisa Stevens and Erik Mona mention it...
It seems that there's no question whether one will get the PDFs along with the hard copy books, but there's only one video (barring the initial KS introduction) on the front page. The "KS2 Update 2" video where "Lee Hammock and Stephen Cheney talk a little bit about Player vs. Player conflict in Pathfinder Online!"
It seems like the first video update was moved to the Updates section (Update #8) - just in case anyone can't find it on the front page either.
Have whut?Oh I guess then that this information slipped through the cracks as I'm here everyday and must of missed it. It's no big deal really I was just kind of shocked I had just found that out. I have money in the kickstarter and I plan on getting the book and hope the MMO will lead to a non MMO games.Have dagnabbit! Have!
He means it's "must have missed it", not "must of missed it". Grammar is a friend to all - so please don't mistreat it. :P
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Turn based almost certainly can't work turn based - what do other players do whilst waiting for someone slow to decide. Also, how big do you set the ara where you tie the turns together?Actually, I'd love one. I prefer my single player CRPGs to be turn based, and a MMO that was turn based also would be that much better. I realize that it's unlikely to find one, but I can hope...
While I like the D&D system I have pledged for a MMO set in Golarion, not for the D&D game mechanics, so it is perfectly fine for me.
I think most people realize that it is not possible to import D&D rules in a MMO setting 1:1, what is important is keeping the Pathfinder feeling.I really doubt someone want a turn based MMO :D
Not only can it work, but it has. The old Goldbox SSI D&D games had a version on AOL, Neverwinter Nights, that was also turn based, for example. As for what other players dow whilst waiting for someone slow to decide - the same problem exists in tabletop play, and that's been working alright for over 30 years. In a computer game, you could simply have a timer, say 30 seconds or a minute, and after that, you've delayed or something.
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Turn based almost certainly can't work turn based - what do other players do whilst waiting for someone slow to decide. Also, how big do you set the ara where you tie the turns together?Actually, I'd love one. I prefer my single player CRPGs to be turn based, and a MMO that was turn based also would be that much better. I realize that it's unlikely to find one, but I can hope...
While I like the D&D system I have pledged for a MMO set in Golarion, not for the D&D game mechanics, so it is perfectly fine for me.
I think most people realize that it is not possible to import D&D rules in a MMO setting 1:1, what is important is keeping the Pathfinder feeling.I really doubt someone want a turn based MMO :D
There's a MMOish game called toontown that plays using a turn based system. You character goes around wondering around the world in real time and s/he can come across fights where other toons are fighting the robot enemies called cogs. If the PC toons side has less then 4 people in it, you can walk up to the fight and join the fight on the side of the PCs.
The fight is broken up into rounds basically and the players and the AI enemies line up final fantasy style. At the start of each round, every player chooses their action, they have like 20 seconds to choose their action and it locks in as soon as a you click on it (your allies can see what action you picked and act accordingly and vice versa). Once every player locks in an action, all of the actions that were selected start to occur, going between the actions of the players and the actions of the AI enemies. This goes on until one side loses all of the units on their sides (max party size of 4 for players but the max for the computer enemies is much higher and so fights can come in waves) lasting any where from 1 round to 10 or more.
They even have a dungeon system and even a raiding system so you still get a lot of the themepark type stuff in the game. They use a subscription service for payment AND they are quite a few years old. Not to bad for a game based around playing cartoon characters in a Disney-ish setting meant for younger kids (I have seen grown adults play this game).
It's of course not close to Pathfinder's definition of turn based but it still is a persistant world game that uses a turn based combat system and caters to a large group of players.
I guess PvP gets hard when turn based in an MMO.
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Actually, I'd love one. I prefer my single player CRPGs to be turn based, and a MMO that was turn based also would be that much better. I realize that it's unlikely to find one, but I can hope...
While I like the D&D system I have pledged for a MMO set in Golarion, not for the D&D game mechanics, so it is perfectly fine for me.
I think most people realize that it is not possible to import D&D rules in a MMO setting 1:1, what is important is keeping the Pathfinder feeling.I really doubt someone want a turn based MMO :D
After you have waited for 30 other players around the world, some of them with slow connections, to complete their actions you will change your opinion, I think.
Foe games on my PC turn based is perfect, for a MMO it is a nightmare.Edit: as I hadn't read the posts before posting myself:
There are a couple of interesting examples, but a turn based system will greatly limit the number of active participants in a fight.
Will the print book/pdf be generic or will it be written using the Pathfinder rules?
Is the ETA for the book 2014 as well?
Inquiring minds want to know :-)
Actually, I'd love one. I prefer my single player CRPGs to be turn based, and a MMO that was turn based also would be that much better. I realize that it's unlikely to find one, but I can hope...
While I like the D&D system I have pledged for a MMO set in Golarion, not for the D&D game mechanics, so it is perfectly fine for me.
I think most people realize that it is not possible to import D&D rules in a MMO setting 1:1, what is important is keeping the Pathfinder feeling.I really doubt someone want a turn based MMO :D
After you have waited for 30 other players around the world, some of them with slow connections, to complete their actions you will change your opinion, I think.
Foe games on my PC turn based is perfect, for a MMO it is a nightmare.Edit: as I hadn't read the posts before posting myself:
There are a couple of interesting examples, but a turn based system will greatly limit the number of active participants in a fight.
Civilization has an online Turn based mode as well, doesn't it? (I have Civ, but don't play online.)
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Slumbering Tsar's bundle subscription added a special chapter with (I'm told), special info relating back to the story told in Rappan Athuk and Tomb of Abysthor. I very much wanted that chapter. But I had already bought 6 (I think) of the installments and didn't want to spend $150 (or whatever it was) for the primary purpose of getting that one supplement chapter (yes, I got the other parts of the series, but that wasn't why I was buying it).
Frog God did not make that extra chapter available and posts indicated it never would be. That's disappointing to me as a Necro World fan.
The Frogs are very customer friendly. I think if you emailed them that you have 6 installments of Tsar but want thze whole subscription thing, you might be able to deduct the cash already spent. Might be worth a try.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Will the print book/pdf be generic or will it be written using the Pathfinder rules?
Is the ETA for the book 2014 as well?
Inquiring minds want to know :-)
All of the RPG books will be written for use with the Pathfinder RPG.
We won't have an ETA for the book until after the Kickstarter ends and we find out how big it's going to be. The bigger it gets, the longer it takes.
Ye GODS! O.O
With all those heavy hitters at the top of the roster, who've you got on the bench for when you reach the seventh innings!?
This announcement was needed. Almost half of the time has passed and they do not have a third of the funding.
I'm guessing they are hoping that a lot of people use their christmas/new year cash to fund the project.
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CEO
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I'll admit the latest kicktraq numbers are not encouraging.
Still lets hope this announcement helps push things forward.
Kicktraq is not a very accurate reflection. It does a very poor job of modeling the way most Kickstarters really trend, which is a big jump out the gate and then a slow but steady growth through the middle ending with a HUGE spike at the end, usually in the last few days. In the first Pathfinder Online Kickstarter, we had over 50% of our pledges come in during the last day and a half! Kicktraq couldn't see that coming and never does. Btw, just for grins, I was following Kicktraq on the first day and it predicted we would end up around $25 million. :)
Basically, what I am saying is that our Kickstarter is tracking pretty close to what I figured it would do. The big gains will happen in January, which is why we set it up to end like we did.
I love Kicktraq and follow it quite a bit. But you can't use it to predict success or failure of a Kickstarter. Btw, don't know if you go to the Kicktraq home page often, but it lists the seven most popular Kickstarters going and the Pathfinder Online one is at #3 right now. And that is out of ALL the Kickstarters going right now, which is in the hundreds if not thousands.
-Lisa
I'll admit the latest kicktraq numbers are not encouraging.
Still lets hope this announcement helps push things forward.
Kicktraq is not a very accurate reflection. It does a very poor job of modeling the way most Kickstarters really trend, which is a big jump out the gate and then a slow but steady growth through the middle ending with a HUGE spike at the end, usually in the last few days. In the first Pathfinder Online Kickstarter, we had over 50% of our pledges come in during the last day and a half! Kicktraq couldn't see that coming and never does. Btw, just for grins, I was following Kicktraq on the first day and it predicted we would end up around $25 million. :)
Basically, what I am saying is that our Kickstarter is tracking pretty close to what I figured it would do. The big gains will happen in January, which is why we set it up to end like we did.
I love Kicktraq and follow it quite a bit. But you can't use it to predict success or failure of a Kickstarter. Btw, don't know if you go to the Kicktraq home page often, but it lists the seven most popular Kickstarters going and the Pathfinder Online one is at #3 right now. And that is out of ALL the Kickstarters going right now, which is in the hundreds if not thousands.
-Lisa
Thats good news. I can't wait to see what happens in January :)
Nope, the didn't. It's available for pre-order to the general non-KickStarter public right HERE.IANP, but I can't imagine they would publish physical copies of something solely for Kickstarter backers when there would clearly be a larger market - I can't see any possible business reason for such a decision.They did so for Thornkeep.
... so you're agreeing with me that they made it available =P
I feel this is more hyped like a Kickstarter for the Emerald Spire dungeon book than a Kickstarter for a MMOG since the Emerald Spire was announced...
I'll be honest, if it had been I probably would have supported it.
$75 is more than I want to contribute to a game I'll never play, even for a side-reward I'd love to have. Thornkeep got a pass for being much cheaper to support to get, and me not knowing at the time that I wouldn't be playing PFO.
You can get the PDF for 15$.
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The Frogs are very customer friendly. I think if you emailed them that you have 6 installments of Tsar but want thze whole subscription thing, you might be able to deduct the cash already spent. Might be worth a try.Slumbering Tsar's bundle subscription added a special chapter with (I'm told), special info relating back to the story told in Rappan Athuk and Tomb of Abysthor. I very much wanted that chapter. But I had already bought 6 (I think) of the installments and didn't want to spend $150 (or whatever it was) for the primary purpose of getting that one supplement chapter (yes, I got the other parts of the series, but that wasn't why I was buying it).
Frog God did not make that extra chapter available and posts indicated it never would be. That's disappointing to me as a Necro World fan.
It's not available in PDF at all. It's only available in the physical book.
So there's no difference between my current $5 Watcher + $100 vs. a $5 Pathfinder Society + $100? It seems pretty clear, just want to be sure.
Basically, what I am saying is that our Kickstarter is tracking pretty close to what I figured it would do. The big gains will happen in January, which is why we set it up to end like we did.-Lisa
I figured that you guys had a plan for timing this the way you did. I hope it pays off. I'll do my best to contribute what I can after the holidays.
I must say, kudos on the amazing line-up for the book. I'm quite (pleasantly) surprised at the announcement of Mark R.H. I did not see that coming.
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Chief Technical Officer
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So there's no difference between my current $5 Watcher + $100 vs. a $5 Pathfinder Society + $100? It seems pretty clear, just want to be sure.
No difference. The fact there are two pledge levels at $5 is really just an artifact of the fact that Kickstarter doesn't let projects modify a pledge level description once anyone has pledged at that level.
You can get the PDF for 15$.
Somehow I missed that. Thanks.
So there's no difference between my current $5 Watcher + $100 vs. a $5 Pathfinder Society + $100? It seems pretty clear, just want to be sure.No difference. The fact there are two pledge levels at $5 is really just an artifact of the fact that Kickstarter doesn't let projects modify a pledge level description once anyone has pledged at that level.
Thanks! I might very well increase my pledge later, once it becomes do or don't; but I haven't decided yet, and I appreciate the confirmation for if I stay where I am.
If the only thing you want is the PDF - then you only need pledge $15
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Wait, I'm confused - the kickstarter page showes that if I pledge 15$ I get the emarald spire pdf, but you all are talking as if I need to put in the minimal 5$ and then add 75$ or something like that...
which is true?
Originally, you needed to pledge $75 to get the PDF, or get in at the minimum $5 and add $100 to get the print version. Recently, they added a $15 reward just for the PDFs.
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It's not available in PDF at all. It's only available in the physical book.
Nope, you can get the PDF on their website for USD 89.99.