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***Non-Mythic***
AC 132 Base, 97 Touch, 125 Flat-footed (+2 vs. AoO, +7 vs ranged/thrown weapons)
This hypothetical character was a (Asura-Spawn) tiefling with a starting Wisdom/Dexterity of 20. She took 20 levels in Monk and put all extra ability points (L4/8/12/16/20) into Dexterity.
Beast Shape 4/Undead Anatomy 4: +8 dex (size)
Tiny = +2 AC for size
Wish - +5 inherent bonus to dex and wisdom
L4/8/12/16/20 +5 dex
Monk L20 = 5 AC + Wisdom + Dexterity
At L20, the modified Wisdom = 42 and the modified Dexterity = 52
Age Resistance, Greater + Venerable Age Category
Tree Shape: +10 to natural armor
Barkskin +5 enhancement bonus to natural armor
Dance of a Hundred Cuts: +5 morale bonus to AC
Tactical Acumen +4 insight bonus to cover AC
Interposing Hand +4 cover AC
Bullet Shield +8 deflection bonus to AC from ranged and thrown weapons
Cloak of Winds (-4 to enemy ranged attack, just like a +4 non-specific bonus to AC from ranged attacks)
Aspect of the Stag +2 dodge bonus to AC vs AoO
Blessing of Fervor +2 dodge bonus to AC
Dodge Feat: +1 dodge bonus to AC
Crane Style/Crane Wing/Crane Riposte - fighting defensively (with 3 ranks in acrobatics)
+3 AC for fighting defensively, +1 extra dodge bonus to AC
Combat Expertise (-3 A, +3 dodge bonus to AC)
Magic Item
+5 AC bonus to luck, profane, sacred,
Bracers of Armor 8
Belt of Dexterity +14 (196kg)
Headband of Wisdom +14 (196kg)
Ring of Protection +5 deflection
Did I miss anything?
How are u getting the belt and headband of +14 stat bump.. highest is +6
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When using tree shape you have an effective Dex of 0 and move of 0.
However, even after slicing off the pure cheese like that (and +14 boosters, and doubling sacred and profane, and stacking defensive fighting with combat expertise...) I still come up with a ludicrous base AC of 94!
To WerePox47:
Effect Base Price Example
Ability bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 1,000 gp Belt of incredible dexterity 2
The maximum an item's base cost can be before becoming Epic is 200,000g. The highest Belt of Incredible Dexterity is a +6 stat at a cost of (6^2)x1000g. 14^2 = 196 x 1000 < 200,000g cap.
Thank you, Can'tFindthePath, for pointing out Tree Shape makes dex go away. Tree shape would be removed. Beast Shape 4/Undead Anatomy 4 give a natural armor bonus of +3. I see the sacred/profane not supposed to be able to stack. But the defensive fighting and combat expertise - why don't they stack?
I also noticed that Barkskin should be turned into an amulet of Natural Armor +5 instead.
Age Resistance, Greater + Venerable Age Category
I note that, in your post, your wisdom _should_ be 20+5+14 = 39 wisdom.
Venerable Age Category = +3 Wisdom/Intelligence/Charisma.
Age Resistance, Greater - removes the -6 Strength/Dexterity/Constitution. If someone with Craft Wondrous Items put Age Resistance, Greater onto an item as a continuous effect, then the item would cost 5,000g (Level 5 x Caster Level 1 x 1/2 (duration = 1 day) x 2000 = 5,000).
39 Wisdom + 3 Wisdom from being really old = 42 Wisdom :) Granted your Wisdom would go from 44 to 47 using very old age. (which would make 1 more AC from Wisdom)
You have a very nice Synthesist analysis. You could raise your AC by 1 from the non-specific bonus given by Monk's Robes: Totalling an AC 25 over my post above :)
To WerePox47:
Effect Base Price Example
Ability bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 1,000 gp Belt of incredible dexterity 2The maximum an item's base cost can be before becoming Epic is 200,000g. The highest Belt of Incredible Dexterity is a +6 stat at a cost of (6^2)x1000g. 14^2 = 196 x 1000 < 200,000g cap.
Thank you, Can'tFindthePath, for pointing out Tree Shape makes dex go away. Tree shape would be removed. Beast Shape 4/Undead Anatomy 4 give a natural armor bonus of +3. I see the sacred/profane not supposed to be able to stack. But the defensive fighting and combat expertise - why don't they stack?
By that logic, your ring of protection and amulet of natural armor should be +10, and your sacred (or profane) item and luck items should be +8. But see how you instinctively knew that was wrong? Lol.
I don't see reference to the epic threshold, is it in PF? The old ELH defined epic magic items as anything over 200,000gp for anything that wasn't explicitly covered. In those rules, +5 was the (non-epic) cap for ring of protection and such. And +6 was the cap for ability enhancers.
I don't think we should even consider those rules.
Regarding fighting defensively, I thought that is where the devs came down on the issue, but it says nothing in the CRB, so it's legal as far as I'm concerned.
-Cheers
Well, if you become small via permanent reduce person you can get a size boost to ac. I believe you can get a smaller size.
Also you if you ride a mount you can duck behind your mount for cover, and get a cover bonus. Might stack with the hand.
I didn't see any luck or defender bonuses either - so jingasa will give you luck, think a luck stone will as well. Need to make an attack of course.
have your familiar sitting on your shoulder, aiding other for AC. Add on the team work feat where you both use a shield you gain a teamwork bonus.
Well, if you become small via permanent reduce person you can get a size boost to ac. I believe you can get a smaller size.
Also you if you ride a mount you can duck behind your mount for cover, and get a cover bonus. Might stack with the hand.
I didn't see any luck or defender bonuses either - so jingasa will give you luck, think a luck stone will as well. Need to make an attack of course.
have your familiar sitting on your shoulder, aiding other for AC. Add on the team work feat where you both use a shield you gain a teamwork bonus.
Already has size Tiny with a +2 to AC. I wouldn't let the Hand and hiding behind a mount work, personally.
Has a +5 luck to AC, I remembered why I thought you couldn't fight defensively and use Combat Expertise at the same time...it was a thread about Defender weapon quality with Combat Expertise. Not sure they work at the same time.
No familiar, level 20 Monk.
add in 1 duliest level to get more ac from Int, go some undead to get ac from cha.
Not sure what you are referring to by "undead to get AC from Cha". Only thing I know is some incorporeal undead who gain a deflection bonus to AC based on Cha. Already has a deflection bonus, although you might get it higher this way.
Epic pricing activates when an item's base cost exceeds certain thresholds.
For ability score enhancements, that threashold is +6. So, tack another million onto the price of those enhancements.
Since Tree Shape is a bigger bonus then penalty, is there a Tiny form with Nat AC you could polymorph into?
==Aelryinth
Undead Anatomy 4
Gremlin, Pugwampi-Lich is probably the most powerful.
Mockingfey-Lich is probably one of the easiest to walk around Town and not be kill on sight.
These two options will receive a +3 Natural Armor bonus (given from the spell).
"Creating magic armor has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor." I thought this said "three times the bonus" before looking it up, rather than specifying the type of bonus to armor class that must meet this prerequisite. Thank you for pointing this out, Can'tFindthePath, and that the other bonuses to AC should be higher.
"If your item costs more than 200,000 gp, it's probably an artifact rather than a regular magic item."
-Paizo Errata-
Undead Anatomy 4
Gremlin, Pugwampi-Lich is probably the most powerful.
Mockingfey-Lich is probably one of the easiest to walk around Town and not be kill on sight.These two options will receive a +3 Natural Armor bonus (given from the spell).
"Creating magic armor has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor." I thought this said "three times the bonus" before looking it up, rather than specifying the type of bonus to armor class that must meet this prerequisite. Thank you for pointing this out, Can'tFindthePath, and that the other bonuses to AC should be higher.
"If your item costs more than 200,000 gp, it's probably an artifact rather than a regular magic item."
-Paizo Errata-
No problem.....but I think you missed my point. Beyond +5 is epic for those AC bonuses. And beyond +6 is epic for those ability enhancers.
If someone with Craft Wondrous Items put Age Resistance, Greater onto an item as a continuous effect, then the item would cost 5,000g (Level 5 x Caster Level 1 x 1/2 (duration = 1 day) x 2000 = 5,000).
Wrong.
(Spell Level 5* x Caster Level 13 x 1/2) x 2000 = 65k
*only for Alchemists, for all other 7
A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell.
I was able to hit 69 AC without much cheese. Halfling 10 Monk/10 Duelist.
25 point buy starting stats
7 str, con, cha,
18 int, dex, wis
halfling mods, leveling and +6 gear and wishes to stats gives
5 str
29 dex
7 con
30 int
30 wis
9 cha
Hasted, fighting defensively, combat expertise, dodge feat, +5 natural armor amulet, +6 dex belt, boots of speed, +8 bracers of armor, headband +6 int +6 wis, Monks Robe, +5 Ring of protection, +4 Ki Defense, +1 size.
Total 69 AC.
Don't forget that Armour AC bonuses are halved for Tiny or smaller creatures. CRB page 153, Table 6-8
No defender weapons? For shame.
And the halfling needs a Shield Spell.
==Aelryinth
Don't forget that Armour AC bonuses are halved for Tiny or smaller creatures. CRB page 153, Table 6-8
Wow...who knew. I can imagine many people thinking that rule wouldn't apply to Bracers of Armor, but I can't see why it wouldn't. Interesting.
So, basically, since you only gain +2 size bonus from being Tiny, and you give up +4 armor bonus...might as well be Small.
Don't forget that Armour AC bonuses are halved for Tiny or smaller creatures. CRB page 153, Table 6-8Wow...who knew. I can imagine many people thinking that rule wouldn't apply to Bracers of Armor, but I can't see why it wouldn't. Interesting.
So, basically, since you only gain +2 size bonus from being Tiny, and you give up +4 armor bonus...might as well be Small.
There are other things to consider like initiative, ref saves etc.
I was able to hit somewhere in the 70s using a generic Fighter.
I, unfortunately, don't have my spreadsheet with my calculations on it to relay how I did it, though.
Seems like you're stacking a bunch of polymorph effects... If I'm not mistaken, you can only have one of those active at a time. Don't have time to research this right now, just tossing out my quick 2cp.
MechE-
My understanding of Undead Anatomy is that most undeads themselves are templates to other races. No undead is tiny by itself, so it must be templated over top a tiny character for Undead Anatomy to be successful in polymorphing you into a tiny critter. If Undead Anatomy can simply polymorph your base form into a tiny undead version, it would still be pretty awesome. Does anyone else read the spell with the understanding that it shrinks/grows your current form and turns you into some sort of undead?
Eridan-
There are at least 83 items that have lower CLs to make than the minimum Caster Level to cast the spell from spells memorized/prepared/spontaneously cast.
Example 1:
Ring of Mind Shielding is a CL 3 item, but requires a minimum of CL5 to cast the spell of Nondetection.
Example 2:
Sepia Ellipsoid (Ioun Stone). In the item description, the creater level must be at least 12. However, two of the spells are L7 and L9 - normal caster level of 13 and 17.
The list of the other 81:
Ring of Arcane Mastery, Scholar’s Ring, Ring of Delayed Doom, Ring of Rat Fangs, Ring of Spell Storing, Minor, Ring of Spell Knowledge (Type 4), Abrogalian Corset, Folding Plate, Celestial Shield, Elysian Shield, Mwangi Spirit Shield, Fighter's Fork, Mace of Smiting, Lesser, Ricochet Hammer, Slaying Arrow, Greater, Trident of Warning, Musical Staff, Staff of Cackling Wrath, Staff of Speaking, Staff of the Avenger, Staff of the Hierophant, Fiery Nimbus Rod, Rod of Ruin, Rod of Shadows, Rod of the Wayang, Scepter of Heaven, Suzerain Scepter, Apple of Eternal Sleep (L18 hex requirement), Bandages of Rapid Recovery, Bear Pelt of the Bonebreaker, Belt of Tumbling, Belt, Blink Back, Belt, Merform, Boat, Folding, Clay Golem Manual, Flesh Golem Manual, Boots of the Mastodon, Boots, Earth Root, Boots, Jaunt, Bracers, Raven, Canard, Raucous, Cap of the Free Thinker, Cloak of the Bat, Cloak of the Crusader, Cloak, Great Barghest Hero, Elixir of Vision, Eyes of the Eagle, Figurine: Obsidian Steed, Figurine: Silver Raven, Gauntlet, Iron Cobra, Gloves of Reconnaissance, Gloves of Shaping, Gloves, Deliquescent, Gloves, Magnetist’s, Goggles of Minute Seeing, Goggles, Darklands, Goggles, Kinsight, Horseshoes of Speed, Iron Circlet of Guarded Souls, Poisoner’s Jacket, Lesser, Lambent Window, Lantern of Dancing Shadows, Laurel of Command, Lyre of Building, Mask of Giants, Lesser, Mask, Demon Mother's, Mask, Goz, Mask, Grappler’s, Mask, Holy Mask of the Living God, Mask, Miser’s, Monocle of the Investigator, Nightmare Tears, Osirian Spirit Jars, Pectoral, Prophet’s, Pendant, Azlant, Periapt of Wound Closure, Stone, Scavenger's, Talisman, Melancholic, Talisman, Sanguine, Tankard of the Drunken Hero, Vambraces, Merciful, and Vest of the Vengeful Tracker.
Eridan, do you believe Paizo messed up at least 83 times?
**Staff of the Hierophant - this item costs 220,000g.
stuart haffenden-
Thank you for pointing out that tiny creatures only get 1/2th their armor bonus to AC. I was personally unaware of this. :)
A kobold oracle could get a pretty insane AC. The favored class bonus will give you +6 armor or natural armor from spells you cast on yourself. Barkskin for +18, animal shapes for +10 (no penalty from dex because you get Cha to AC instead, but -2 for size). Shield of faith for another +5. Dodge as a feat, improved natural armor a whole bunch of times. I see +10 from feats, and +33 from spells. Before any magical items or particularly insane shenanigans, you're at a very respectable 53 AC. With a reasonable Cha of 28, that becomes 67. Go venerable to make that 69. Please note, there are no magic items used yet besides a headband for +6 Cha. The only terribly cheesey thing is venerable, and that's only giving you +2. You could easily add in a level of monk for somewhere in the range of +4-5 AC, if your headband also boosts wisdom. I don't really use magic items much, so someone else can figure just what this would reach with those. Before direct AC boosters, this is at 74 AC right now.
I was able to hit 69 AC without much cheese. Halfling 10 Monk/10 Duelist.
25 point buy starting stats
7 str, con, cha,
18 int, dex, wishalfling mods, leveling and +6 gear and wishes to stats gives
5 str
29 dex
7 con
30 int
30 wis
9 chaHasted, fighting defensively, combat expertise, dodge feat, +5 natural armor amulet, +6 dex belt, boots of speed, +8 bracers of armor, headband +6 int +6 wis, Monks Robe, +5 Ring of protection, +4 Ki Defense, +1 size.
Total 69 AC.
Bracers of Armor have a max +5 to AC.
So these super ACs are achieved by ignoring the rules?
Bracers of armor do indeed max at +8. Where did you get +5?!?
A Fighter/20 in mithril Celestial Full Plate +5 (normal dex limit +7) with a Dex of 32, an Uber Shield (+5 Large Shield, +5 Defender), Ring of Prot +5, SHield Focus, Dodge, Amulet/Nat Armor +5, with enough ranks in balance and trait to take defensive fighting for +4 AC, Expertise for +6 AC will have:
10+ +14 Armor + 11 Dex +7 Shield +5 Defender + 5 Deflection +5 nat Armor +1 Dodge +1 Shield Focus + 4 Defensive +6 Expertise = 69 AC, or a 59 AC walkaround taking no penalties to hit.
I'm assuming a Crane Wing practitioner could also do well.
==Aelryinth
Bracers of armor do indeed max at +8. Where did you get +5?!?
... I thought it had a limit like armor... I stand corrected.
If you go by 3.5, they actually go to +10, following the same progression, but that's neither here nor there.
==Aelryinth
So far in this Forum, the following race/class combinations have been suggested:
(Crosswind) Monk 1/Synthesist 19 (Summoner)
(High Elf) Some class with a familiar so the familiar can "Aid Another" for AC
(Run, Just Run) 1 Duelist
(Hawkitan) Halfling 10 Monk/10 Duelist
(Aelryinth) Halfling - Defender Weapons/Shield Spell
(Jackissocool) Kobold Oracle
(Aelryinth) 20 Fighter
(Crosswind)
MoMS 1 (Monk) 1/Synthesist 19
Greater Shielded Meld: +4 shield bonus to ac
L19 Eidolon Battlearmor: +14 NA, +7 str/dex, 25 evolution points, 3 ability score increases
Serpentine Form: +4 NA, Str 12, Dex 16, Con 13
Evolutions(25/25): Improved Natural Armor (3 times): +6 NA, Ability Increase (3 times): +6 dex, Flight (perfect), Immunity (fire/cold/electric/acid), Shadow Blend/Shadow Form (20% miss chance in bright light, 50% miss chance in all other light conditions)
Serpentine Form Adjusted: +24 NA, Str 19, Dex 32, Con 13
Age - Venerable
Race: Dwarf: 20 Wisdom (L4/8/12/16/20: +5 Wisdom) +3 Wisdom (Age) = 28 Wisdom
Alternate Racial Trait: Magic Resistant: (5+level) SR
*Eidolon Battlearmor takes up Armor slot on Body*
Monk's Robes
Base 123 (RoW 131)
Touch 90 (RoW 98)
Flat-footed 63 (RoW 71)
(+2 from AoO, +7 from ranged or thrown attacks)
(High Elf)
MoMS 1 (Monk) 1/Wizard 1/Synthesist 18
same as above except no Shadow Blend
Greensting Scorpion Familiar (+4 initiative) - aids another to AC
Base 125 (RoW 133)
Touch 92 (RoW 100)
Flat-footed 65 (RoW 73)
(+2 from AoO, +7 from ranged or thrown attacks)
(Hawkitan)/(Run, Just Run)
Halfling 10 Monk/10 Duelist
Monk's Robes (+1 AC + 10 monk = +3 AC)
Max Base Stats: 20 Dex, 18 Wisdom, 18 Intelligence
Headband of Wisdom +6, Intelligence +2
(L4/8/12/16/20: +4 Wisdom/+1 Dexterity)
Parry: potentially avoid an attack
Enhanced Mobility (Ex) +4 non-specific bonus to AC vs AoO
Elaborate Defense (Ex): +1 dodge bonus to AC/3 levels of duelist when fighting defensively
Base 103 (Row 111)
Touch 94 (Row 102)
Flat-footed 49 (RoW 57)
(+6 from AoO, +7 from ranged or thrown attacks)
(Jackissocool)
Kobold Oracle
Maximum Stats
20 dex, 18 cha
Special Defenses: +1 bonus to Natural Armor
Oracles are proficient with...light armor, medium armor, and shields (except t. shields)
Revelations:
Ancestor:
Spirit of the Warrior: +4 enhancement bonus to dex, +4 natural armor bonus to AC (natural armor from different sources do not stack, take highest available)
Spirit Shield: +12 armor bonus
Spirit Walk: immune to critical hits, immune to sneak attack, immune to non-magical attacks, 50% damage from magical attacks, cha to AC/no NA to AC
Battle:
Final Revelation: +4 insight bonus to AC to avoid critical hits
Bones:
Armor of Bones: +12 armor bonus, DR 5/blunt
Dark Tapestry:
Cloak of Darkness: +12 armor bonus, +10 circumstance bonus to stealth
Heavens:
Coat of Many Stars: +12 armor, DR 5/slash
Juju:
Craft Juju Fetish: a legit way to get the extra 30% off for specific class requirement
Path of the Snake: immune to critical hits, immune to sneak attack, immune to non-magical attacks, 50% damage from magical attacks, cha to AC/no NA to AC
Metal:
Skill at Arms: Heavy Armor Proficiency
Nature:
Bonded Mount: Animal Companion/Mount
Nature’s Whispers: Add Cha instead of Dex to AC
Outer Rift:
Demonhide: +12 armor bonus, DR 5/cold iron
Waves:
Ice Armor: +12 armor bonus, DR 5/pierce - cold weather +2 armor, warm weather -2 armor
Wind:
Air Barrier: +12 armor bonus; arrows, rays, and other ranged attacks have a 50% miss chance
Flame/Life/Lore/Spellscar/Stone/Time:
Nothing...
A base 20 dex, +5 (L4/8/12/16/20) +5 inherent from wish, +6 enhancement from belt = 36 dex = +13 AC from dex. The main question is: Can we get a +12 armor bonus or higher +13 dex modifyer for not wearing armor = 25 AC bonus or higher.
Celestial, Mithral Full Plate +5
(9 armor +8 dex +5 enhancement x2 (Litany of Defense put continuously on the armor)) = +27
Mithral Quickdraw Light Shield +5 of Arrow Catching, Arrow Deflecting, and Animated/with shield spikes +5 enhancement and Defending and Dueling (+2 shield/+5 enhancement bonus to shield, +1 extra from ranged attacks/+5 non-specific, +4 initiative)
Base 114 (RoW 123)
Touch 74 (RoW 82)
Flat-footed 70 (RoW 78)
(+2 from AoO, +8 from ranged or thrown attacks)
(Aelryinth)
Fighter 20
Base Stats
20 Dex +5 (leveling) + 5 inherent (wish) +6 enhancement (belt) = 36 dex
Armor Training (Ex): +4 max dex in armor
Celestial, Mithral Full Plate +5
(9 armor +8 dex +5 enhancement x2 (Litany of Defense put continuously on the armor)) = +27
Mithral Tower Shield +5 of Arrow Catching, Arrow Deflecting, and Animated/with shield spikes +5 enhancement and Defending and Dueling (+2 shield/+5 enhancement bonus to shield, +1 extra from ranged at tacks/+5 non-specific, +4 initiative)
**I personally do not know all the fighter feats for defense. I cannot see how they will overcome (High Elf/Crosswind)'s Synthesists' Armor Classes.
Base 114 (+1 dex) (RoW 122)
Touch 68 (+1 dex) (RoW 76)
Flat-footed 84 (RoW 92)
(+2 from AoO, +8 from ranged or thrown attacks)
The generic magical buffs, feats, and magical items will be as follows
(From Mekkis) -- Rod of Wonder that can shrink characters by two sizes on a 66-69 roll
-tiny to two sizes smaller = fine = +4 Dex and +6 to A from size
Beast Shape 4/Undead Anatomy 4: +8 dex (size)
Tiny = +2 AC for size
Wish - +5 inherent bonus to dex and wisdom
Monk = 0-5 AC + Wisdom + Dexterity
Age Resistance, Greater
Dance of a Hundred Cuts: +5 morale bonus to AC
Tactical Acumen +4 insight bonus to cover AC
Interposing Hand +4 cover AC
Bullet Shield +8 deflection bonus to AC from ranged and thrown weapons
Cloak of Winds (-4 to enemy ranged attack, just like a +4 non-specific bonus to AC from ranged attacks)
Aspect of the Stag +2 dodge bonus to AC vs AoO
Blessing of Fervor +2 dodge bonus to AC
Feats
Dodge Feat: +1 dodge bonus to AC
Crane Style/Crane Wing/Crane Riposte - fighting defensively (with 3 ranks in acrobatics)
+3 AC for fighting defensively, +1 extra dodge bonus to AC
Combat Expertise (-3 A, +3 dodge bonus to AC)
Shield Proficiency
Magic Item
(Aelryinth) (Non-monk only) Mithral (Shield Type) Shield +5 of Arrow Catching, Arrow Deflecting, and Animated/with shield spikes +5 enhancement and Defending and Dueling (+2 shield/+5 enhancement bonus to shield, +1 extra from ranged at tacks/+5 non-specific, +4 initiative)
+5 AC bonus to luck
+5 AC bonus to profane or sacred
Belt of Dexterity +6
Headband of Wisdom +6
Ring of Protection +5 deflection
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (enhancement bonus to deflection)
Bracers of Armor 8 (reality - +4 Armor bonus for being tiny)
Nature is the best for the kobold oracle because it gives you two spells that would stack that give natural armor bonuses, taking advantage of the alternate favored class bonus, and it lets you use charisma instead of Dex.
Nature is the best for the kobold oracle because it gives you two spells that would stack that give natural armor bonuses, taking advantage of the alternate favored class bonus, and it lets you use charisma instead of Dex.
Where do you get that they stack?
One is an enhancement bonus to AC and the other is just a bonus to AC. Barkskin and Animal shapes. And then you suffer no dexterity penalty when you take the -4 for being huge because you use your Charisma to AC.
One is an enhancement bonus to AC and the other is just a bonus to AC. Barkskin and Animal shapes. And then you suffer no dexterity penalty when you take the -4 for being huge because you use your Charisma to AC.
It isn't dex penality, but size penality because bigger mean easier to hit. reduced dex by increasing size is something else... so you might bypass the dex penality, but not the size one.
Defending weapons are generally ruled not to stack because of the same source effect. Don't bring up that pickle in the rules.
==Aelryinth
One is an enhancement bonus to AC and the other is just a bonus to AC. Barkskin and Animal shapes. And then you suffer no dexterity penalty when you take the -4 for being huge because you use your Charisma to AC.It isn't dex penality, but size penality because bigger mean easier to hit. reduced dex by increasing size is something else... so you might bypass the dex penality, but not the size one.
Yes, but the very substantial natural armor bonus (+12) greatly outweighs the size penalty (-2).